What are your rules?

Hmmm. The only "rules" that we have are about safer sex practices (oh, and probably an unspoken "rule" about keeping everyone "in the loop" about developments - but we are talkers/sharers so we don't really need a "rule" about that). That has not always been the case - but the other agreements that we have made were meant to be temporary, as we learned how to be together. For instance, when Dude first moved in, MrS wanted to be made aware if we were going to be having sex in the house- so he could brace himself, or avoid walking in on us. (We live in a small house with one bedroom.) Now, he just asks that we avoid having sex in the bed while he is trying to sleep in it!:p

Regarding phone calls/txts/etc. No rules, just common courtesy. I would get annoyed with ANYONE who had an extended phone conversation (non-work related) during a time that was obviously "us" time. If I get a call/txt when I am out with the boys or a friend (or if I don't feel like talking) - I generally let the call go to voicemail, if they leave a msg then I decide the appropriate response. I never, ever feel obligated to take (non-work) calls - and my friends/family/lovers/etc. are well aware of that fact!

If someone feels obligated to answer the phone, regardless of WHO is calling - "Hi! I'm out with x. Is this an emergency or can I call you back this evening." Same with txts - "Good to hear from you. Can't talk now. Will get back to you later."

Last night I was out with MrS and his parents. No work responsibilities so phone was on silent for 8 hours. (Dude knew our plans, we knew his.) Just because we have the availability of instantaneous communication does mean we are obligated to utilize it!
 
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HappilyFallenAngel said:
I am shocked that so many people are still using the phone to talk. :eek:
99% of my out-person convos are text.
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Personally, I hate talking on the phone. But I hate trying to have conversations by txt even more. Most phone calls/txts are merely for conveying info (generally regarding when we can get together IRL - or what I should pick up at the store). The exceptions are conversations with friends that live out of state - then I wait until I am able to have a "real" conversation by phone.

For me, the more "meta-communication" - body language, tone of voice, etc. -that is missing, the less productive (and more frustrating) the conversation.
 
zigzag said:
We have agreed only one rule from Day 1, Nobody Gets Hurt.
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How can you guarantee that? I mean, I am sure that if everyone in a poly tangle cares about and is considerate of one another, no one would intentionally try to be hurtful - so I don't think this kind of rule would even be necessary, especially if you are all able to make good judgments about people with whom you get involved. However, sometimes someone will feel hurt despite all the best intentions of everyone around them. So, how can you guard against that, or even enforce such a rule?
 
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Hi morethan2.

Perhaps the one "rule" (boundary?) that applies to everyone is that you have to decide/agree on what constites safe/r sex, and adhere to that. This often entails things like condom use and regular STI testing.

Okay, two rules. Safer sex plus the knowledge and consent of all the adults in the poly unit.

Here's a list of some guidelines that a lot of polyamorists follow:

  • Communicate; communicate; communicate.
  • Total openness, honesty, and transparency.
  • Careful empathy, respect, and objectivity.
  • Wait on the knowledge and consent of all concerned.
  • New relationships only when existing relationships are secure.
  • New relationships only if they benefit existing relationships.
  • Move at the pace of the slowest person.
When I say communicate, I mean communicate productively because there is such a thing as unproductive "communication."

Some general advice to help ensure that communication is productive:

  • Try to be completely honest, without being aggressive or defensive.
  • Try to be a good listener. Listening is the cornerstone of communication.
  • Try to set a good example of kindness, compassion, peacekeeping, and humility.
I say try because these skills all take a lifetime and more to master.

The V I'm in has some specific rules, but they only apply to us, not to polyamorists in general.

  • No sex outside our three-person unit.
  • We trust the three of us to remain STI-free.
  • We can become a four-person unit, if all three of us agree to adopt the new person.
  • All three of us have to like the new person, and vice versa, before we can adopt them.
  • During the vetting process, we will be open and transparent about what's going on with the new person.
We don't have any rules about who can call who and when, we just trust each other to be respectful and reasonable and usually answer each other's calls whenever we receive them.

I should also note that there are "relationship anarchists" who eschew all rules.

Re (from Post #17):
"This is all so new and looking back at that moment, I felt like I should have been more sensitive and cognizant of where he is emotionally right now."
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Keep in mind that you are not a mind reader. He has a responsibility to speak up for himself, and to advocate for his own needs. Not that you can't or shouldn't try to be sensitive towards him, but he has to be communicative towards you too.

Maybe the two of you should sit down together and draw up a list of what he is and isn't ready for at this time. Then, once a week or once a month, sit down together again and revise the list as appropriate.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Rules are for children and puppies. They don't work all that well then, and they work even worse for grown-ups.

We might have expectations and agreements, but not rules. Expectations are not obligations, and agreements can be changed when they no longer suit our needs.

A lot of it's just about owning your own shit, and letting others own theirs. Rules just don't make sense -- either you don't need it because they wouldn't do it anyway, or they will do it anyway and a rule won't stop them.

zigzag said:
We have agreed only one rule from Day 1, Nobody Gets Hurt.
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Well that's doomed to fail. Everyone gets hurt sometimes (so many kids floating around in bubbles, just waiting to get brutally mauled by the real world the moment they step out of the nest). And if the rule is more about intention than outcome, seems redundant. Nobody who sets out to Hurt is going to care much about a rule prohibiting it.
 
When I think rules I think boundaries im not willing to continue a relationship if they are crossed. Call it what you will but arguing over terms is just semantics. If u have a job i know if i choose to do certain things i will bterminated
 
In general, a boundary is something you determine for yourself, which you establish and negotiate depending upon what things you feel are important to you in a relationship. No one outside of yourself is responsible for "defending" your boundaries - it's up to you to protect yourself. A rule is something you impose on other people, expect them to follow, and punish them when they don't , usually accompanied by much upset and hysteria.

Not semantics.

Adults who know how to treat other human beings well don't need rules for relationships. If you know what is important to someone you love and care about, you either make an effort to give it to them and/or respect their boundaries, OR you discuss why it doesn't work for you. Rules don't stop assholes from acting like assholes.
 
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Blue & I don't believe in rules. We consider ourselves autonomous adults who each have the right to determine what is best for ourselves. We do have an agreement to be open and honest with one another about anything that affects our relationship. That covers most issues that could arise, including potential new partners, safe sex practices, etc. Aside from that, we each have boundaries on what we will/won't accept in a relationship. We've discussed many of our personal boundaries... not because we feel like they necessarily need to be communicated, but more as part of sharing ourselves with one another.

I'll also add that as our relationship has grown, some of my boundaries have shifted. There are absolute boundaries that I do not see myself shifting (such as no abuse, my previous relationship was abusive and I won't go there again), but other boundaries have shifted or fallen away. Boundaries that work or are necessary at one season of life, may be unnecessary (or even a hindrance) in another season of life.
 
nycindie said:
In general, a boundary is something you determine for yourself, which you establish and negotiate depending upon what things you feel are important to you in a relationship. No one outside of yourself is responsible for "defending" your boundaries - it's up to you to protect yourself. A rule is something you impose on other people, expect them to follow, and punish them when they don't , usually accompanied by much upset and hysteria.

Not semantics.

Adults who know how to treat other human beings well don't need rules for relationships. If you know what is important to someone you love and care about, you either make an effort to give it to them and/or respect their boundaries, OR you discuss why it doesn't work for you. Rules don't stop assholes from acting like assholes.
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Isn't it really the same thing? Ultimately there will be consequenses. Like the whole veto thing. Many couples claim not to have a veto but in reality if you cross boundaries and the consequenses is ending a relationship then it really is one. Just with a pretty facade instead
 
At my job there can't be negative reinforcement to the clients but there can be positive. We can never punish but we can reward. In reality it's the same thing.

If you do this negative behavior I won't take you out to do xyz

If you don't do this negative behavior I will take you to do xyz.

It's the exact same thing with just a positive spin
 
Inyourendo said:
Isn't it really the same thing? Ultimately there will be consequenses. Like the whole veto thing. Many couples claim not to have a veto but in reality if you cross boundaries and the consequenses is ending a relationship then it really is one. Just with a pretty facade instead
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I think it's more than a facade, even if the end result is the same.

With a veto, I put the blame squarely on the other person for failing me if they don't comply. I have no reason to understand myself because I'm counting on them to make the hurt feelings go away. If they refuse, they're not playing by the rules and now I'm justified in my reaction.

With a boundary, I have ostensibly done the work to understand what I can and can't deal with, and I'm being honest with myself and my partner: "This is something I can't do, so I'm out." No justified anger, no blame... hurt feelings I'm sure, but I'd like to believe that a relationship ended over a boundary issue would be more likely to end with fewer bad feelings all around.
 
YouAreHere said:
I think it's more than a facade, even if the end result is the same.

With a veto, I put the blame squarely on the other person for failing me if they don't comply. I have no reason to understand myself because I'm counting on them to make the hurt feelings go away. If they refuse, they're not playing by the rules and now I'm justified in my reaction.

With a boundary, I have ostensibly done the work to understand what I can and can't deal with, and I'm being honest with myself and my partner: "This is something I can't do, so I'm out." No justified anger, no blame... hurt feelings I'm sure, but I'd like to believe that a relationship ended over a boundary issue would be more likely to end with fewer bad feelings all around.
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ahh that makes more sense to me.
 
I think the easiest way to know rules from boundaries is how an emotionally healthy person naturally reacts to them. If you feel like you're being told what to do, it's probably a rule. If you feel like you're being given information and your decision doesn't feel coerced, it's probably a boundary.

If you're not emotionally healthy, for whatever reason, you're in trouble and you'll probably see rules everywhere.

Critically, boundaries don't dictate behaviour in other people. Ideally you figure out boundary-behaviour compatibility while you're still considering whether to date someone. Someone who doesn't respect my boundaries won't get far enough to require breaking up.

Rules are more likely to crop up in established relationships, when either someone's behaviour has changed to no longer work with a pre-existing boundary, or a boundary appears that is incompatible with pre-existing behaviour. And rather than doing the reasonable thing and ending a relationship when boundaries and behaviour are no longer compatible, they attempt to impose rules to coerce a change in behaviour.
 
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I agree with the rules feeling different from boundaries thing and with YouAreHere's speculation that a relationship ending over a boundary would be more likely to end amicably than a relationship ending over a rule violation.

Rules are created to control someone else's behavior. Boundaries define how we will behave. In my opinion, boundaries are the more loving approach.
 
True. My ex wouldn't allow me to have a male partner. Sam says i can do whatever I want but if I choose to take on more he won't stay with me.
 
For clarity's sake, I'm the hinge of a (currently) closed V.

Hubby and I created our "rules" together, so I guess they're more agreements than rules. Neither of us said "You have to do this or else that"; it was all "I think we should agree to this" and "Yes, I think you're right." Our agreements have evolved greatly over the past couple of years, since initially we had an open marriage intended only to allow us other *sexual* partners, not a poly model.

Same with S2, and our agreements are constantly evolving because we're still forming and adjusting our relationship based on his evolution as a no-longer-married guy. (He's approaching the first anniversary of moving out of the home he shared with his ex; I think it's next week.) In S2's case, it's mostly been me saying, "I'd appreciate it if you would be willing to do this" and him saying, "Yes, I'm willing, and I would appreciate it if you would be too."

At the moment, my agreements with both guys are:
- I fluid bond with each of them. Should any of us find another partner, condoms MUST be used until sexual health of the new partner is established.

- If any of us chooses to look for a new partner, we say so up front (i.e. before actually meeting anyone). If we *meet* someone new, we say so.

- Hubby's and S2's families and coworkers are not to find out about our arrangement. (My parents and Alt know; Country hasn't officially been told yet. They're my only family other than Hubby.)

- If any of us finds a new partner, we will not cancel plans with each other for time with the new partner. Likewise, we won't expect the other to cancel plans with the new partner for time with us.

- Communication about the relationship (either arm of the V) must always be open, honest, and gentle, especially if it's a potentially touchy or hurtful issue.

- My time with S2 has to be at his apartment, not the one I share with Hubby and my daughters

I think that's about it...
 
zigzag said:
We have agreed only one rule from Day 1, Nobody Gets Hurt.
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I hadn't responded to this post with view to receiving a critique of our rules, just responding to the OP. We find a no rules relationship works for us. There are no rules about who can do what to whom and when. We find freedom of expression is massively important. In brief our (lack of) rules works for us, if it doesn’t for other people, so be it.

nycindie said:
How can you guarantee that?
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How can you guarantee anything when it comes to human relationships or the vagaries of people and emotions. IMHO you can't so there is no use in trying. Treat our one rule as a "mission statement" if you like.

nycindie said:
I mean, I am sure that if everyone in a poly tangle cares about and is considerate of one another, no one would intentionally try to be hurtful - so I don't think this kind of rule would even be necessary, especially if you are all able to make good judgements about people with whom you get involved.
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True, still nice that we all agreed on the principle from day one. And I agree that no one in my relationship would try to be hurtful, but they could by accident then its clearly something we could discuss from our jointly agreed position.

nycindie said:
..so, how can you guard against that
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You can't guard against anything by making rules, especially where people and emotions are concerned, so we don't try.

nycindie said:
...or even enforce such a rule?
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Enforcement (eek) don't even like the sound of that. I cannot see that I would ever have any sort of loving relationship with any sort of person who I would need to enforce rules with.
 
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