BF is vanilla with me, sub to his other GF. Need some perspective

C

Cleo

New member
It's been a while since I posted. Poly life has been mostly good and uneventful. However, this recently changed and now I am in need of advice, feedback, and a place to hash out my thoughts about something I can't really get a grip on.

A little background: I am a firm believer in 'keeping relationships separate'. I manage my relationships, my partners manage theirs, and I try not to judge or control the things that have nothing to do with me (I say 'try' because this does not always come easy). I've learned a lot through the relationship of one of my partners with a woman I don't like and don't trust. It took me a couple of years, but I've finally come to the place where I can truly leave them be without feeling anxious about it or wanting to interfere.

Of course, it seems I haven't learned enough, and a new situation has come up that has me anxious and confused.
I started seeing a new partner about 8 months ago. We are now at the stage where we call each other BF/GF, see each other about once a week for a 24 hour date, and sometimes see each other in between those dates for shorter meet ups. He's been to my house, met my husband, spent the night, my toothbrush is in his bathroom. Our relationships feels good and solid and we really enjoy spending time together.

He has one other partner. On our first date, he told me he met her on Fetlife, and that BDSM is an important part of his life. I mentioned that it isn't very important in my life, and this did not seem to be an issue (and so far, is no issue when it comes to the dynamic between him and me).

Over the past couple of months, I have learned more about his relationship with his other GF and it has become clear that this is a full blown D/s dynamic with him as the sub. When they go out she determines what he eats and drinks, there are collars lying around his apartment, they go to a lot of kink events together. He recently started wearing a piece of jewelry that says (in words) that he is owned by her. The first time I saw this it really hit me hard.

I am trying to reason myself out of my jealousies, fear and anxiety. It's hard. There seems to be so much more at play here that a simple 'she likes movies, I like concerts, he goes hiking with her and to bars with me' kind of thing. This touches on a very deep psychological difference in dynamic. For some reason I find it really hard to believe that if he has THAT with her, he can also be interested in the much more tame and vanilla relationship he has with me.

I think it's important to state that he does absolutely nothing to make me feel like this. He adores me, we have great sex, he is not submissive with me, never makes me feel that that is something he is missing in our relationship. The problems I am having with it are all in my own head. But they seem to be stuck there.

She and I have not met. All three of us have expressed being open to such a meeting. Hasn't happened yet mostly due to logistics and scheduling.

He knows about my anxiety about all this, though I do downplay it quite a bit because I know that when I get insecure, I also get needy and clingy, and I know this is not a good thing in any relationship. We have had some good conversations about it.

I don't want it to take years before I get rid of my anxieties about this :) Any advice from people who are in 2 relationships, one kinky and one not, and how that works? or people who are in a relationship with someone who has both a kinky and a non-kinky relationship? I really think that it is this particular issue (which I do not really 'get', I guess - I've played a bit with kink, but to me it is basically just that, play, and not a need or something I have to have in my life) which is causing me to freak out. Any thoughts on how I can 'let go' of obsessing about this would be very welcome.
 
How can someone be in love with a woman and a man, a tall one and a short one, gentle or angry? Because we don't neccesarily seek the same things in different people. I don't think sexual dynamics are any other different than other dynamics.

I can understand you don't like the jewlery, though.
 
I know this won't really answer all your questions, but I would find it disturbing, too. I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask that he not display the collars nor wear the jewelry when he is with you. If he has agreed to/entered into a contract to be 24/7 submissive to her, that is a serious problem because their agreement has overstepped the boundaries of their relationship and intruded into yours. You have rights, too, based on your relationship and personal boundaries. The dynamics of any of his other relationships shouldn't bleed into yours. He should be able to be free and not "owned" by anyone when he is with you. She should understand that. I would tell him that is how you want it because anything they do that crosses into your relationship really seems disrespectful to you, in my opinion. If a domme's position is to always have the sub's best interest at the forefront of what they do, she should be considerate of all his other partners as well.

As for your insecurities about why or how he can enjoy vanilla sex with you when he has all that going on with her, I would think you just need to talk more about it so you can understand it. Just try to ask from the curious you, like an anthropologist, not the needy, insecure you. My guess is that he is pretty flexible, as far as his needs in this area, and doesn't view one kind of dynamic as superior or preferable over the other.
 
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nycindie said:
I know this won't really answer all your questions, but I would find it disturbing, too. I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask that he not display the collars nor wear the jewelry when he is with you. If he has agreed to/entered into a contract to be 24/7 submissive to her, that is a serious problem because their agreement has overstepped the boundaries of their relationship and intruded into yours. You have rights, too, based on your relationship and personal boundaries. The dynamics of any of his other relationships shouldn't bleed into yours. He should be able to be free and not "owned" by anyone when he is with you. She should understand that. I would tell him that is how you want it because anything they do that crosses into your relationship really seems disrespectful to you, in my opinion. If a domme's position is to always have the sub's best interest at the forefront of what they do, she should be considerate of all his other partners as well.
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I don't feel disrespected. He told me right at the start that he and her have 'rules' (it's not a 24/7 D/s dynamic as far as I can tell) but that the rules don't apply whenever he's with me. He makes plans with me without consulting her etc.
He wears the jewelry during the day so when we meet he's wearing it. He always takes it off before we go to bed / have sex / start making out. It's not even plainly visible when he's dressed.

It's true that he does not view one dynamic as 'better'. So that's why I feel that the work mostly needs to be done inside my own head, and not in communicating with him... though I do feel it's good that he knows how I feel about it.
 
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Oh, okay, that is good that their rules are not applicable when he's with you - I misread the situation.

Still, I don't think it would be unreasonable or interpreted as needy if you tell him that the jewelry gives you a bit of a jolt when you see it and affects you in a way that makes you uncomfortable, and to ask that he remove it before he shows up to meet you and to make sure that the collars are put away before you come over.

[I think I must be focusing on what would bother me the most in this scenario. Sorry if I am off the mark!]

Glad that the idea of asking questions like an anthropologist appeals to you!
 
The thing is.. what I keep thinking about... how is that jewelry any different from my wedding ring, or from the stuff he sees in my apartment when he comes over, the things that are obvious signs of the intimacy between me and my husband? All these things are just what they are: evidence of the fact that there is another, intimate, sexual relationship.

I think what I find the most disturbing, the most unsettling, is the fact that the jewelry / BDSM stuff / parties they go to, testifies to a part of him that is completely out of my reach. I don't really understand it, this need he has, and that means I don't really understand him. Intellectually I know of course that it's impossible to completely understand another person. So I think (and this bugs me, a lot) what it comes down to is control? My need to control him?

One of my other partners and his other GF are trying to get pregnant. I don't understand this need of theirs, being childfree by choice myself. I know that when she gets pregnant they will share something I can never share with him. I know that that will also probably mean he will have much less time for me. That unsettles me a tiny bit, but it's also something I know I can work out and will be fine. It's NOTHING compared to the anxiety I feel about this situation with the new BF. Which is why I want to explore this...
 
I think maybe you just need to keep reminding yourself that people can be happy with a variety of things in their life. Hence why so many of us like poly. For example, I myself have been getting into the BDSM scene more and more, and while I'm really liking that and I can see it will definitely become an important part of who I am, I also am very happy with vanilla stuff too. So now I have one b/f who I'm doing kink stuff with and he's being more sub and me being more Domme, but I have another b/f who is totally vanilla. Vanilla b/f has seen some of my stuff around (I mean... where's a good place to store a riding crop anyway?! haha) and asked if I was ok with him being vanilla. YES! Just because I like kink doesn't mean I don't like vanilla.

And for that matter, just because I'm being more Domme with one person, doesn't mean I don't also enjoy being more submissive too.

So your b/f is a big time sub with his g/f. But that doesn't mean he HAS to be submissive all the time and to everyone. Some people are switch and enjoy both aspects. Some aren't, but know that they can only play that role sometimes and need a break to just be vanilla other times.

If he's not expressing any concern with having a vanilla relationship with you and says he's happy, then take his word for it and remind yourself that every relationship has a different dynamic, and as long as what you 2 have works, then there's no need to worry. Eventually, you'll get used to it and it won't bother you.
 
Cleo said:
..... I don't really understand it, this need he has, and that means I don't really understand him. Intellectually I know of course that it's impossible to completely understand another person. So I think (and this bugs me, a lot) what it comes down to is control? My need to control him?
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I dunno, you don't sound controlling in the least (judging from my internet armchair.) I think part of this is the basic human experience that practices (and especially sexual practices) far outside our zone of familiarity just really push our buttons. The nebulous zone of what's familiar changes all of the time for individuals and for society, but when someone steps out beyond the pale, you feel it. Exploring this really helps (like you're doing) as does slow and steady exposure to what we consider "out there." Look at the response to Caitlyn Jenner - wide social embrace that would have been unheard of even five years ago.

I dated someone who was a long time kinkster and I know exactly the anxiety you're describing. I got it intellectually and am totally fine with BDSM in theory, but the "evidence" in person was beyond what I could accept with my usual live-and-let-live. I decided to move on more because he was not a very good communicator, not really because of the BDSM stuff, but while we were dating it was a definite issue with me and I was embarrassed to know that about myself. I consider myself pretty sexually adventuresome, but BDSM just does not speak to me in any way, shape or form. I also learned from the experience that being close to people who are actively involved in it is just not something I'm comfortable with, so it's rather become a deal breaker that I didn't know i had. I think you're on the right track, exploring what it is that triggers you and whether it's something you want to "fix" and overcome or whether it's just something helpful to know about yourself when deciding if a person is a good match with you.
 
breathemusic said:
If he's not expressing any concern with having a vanilla relationship with you and says he's happy, then take his word for it and remind yourself that every relationship has a different dynamic, and as long as what you 2 have works, then there's no need to worry. Eventually, you'll get used to it and it won't bother you.
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thanks for your input, it's good to read that it's not that uncommon for a person to have 2 very different dynamics going on. Also, yes, I should rake his word for it. There is absolutely no evidence that what he and I have, isn't working.
 
HappilyFallenAngel said:
I consider myself pretty sexually adventuresome, but BDSM just does not speak to me in any way, shape or form. I also learned from the experience that being close to people who are actively involved in it is just not something I'm comfortable with, so it's rather become a deal breaker that I didn't know i had. I think you're on the right track, exploring what it is that triggers you and whether it's something you want to "fix" and overcome or whether it's just something helpful to know about yourself when deciding if a person is a good match with you.
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The thing is, BDSM does speak to me, and with another partner, I have done some stuff that I never would have dreamed of doing a couple of years ago - very fun, and liberating.
Which is why it's even more interesting to me why this triggers me so much. Maybe it's because his relationship with her is so full on kinky - I can't compete? Than again, who wants to compete in poly?
 
Kink aside, what is the dynamic like in your relationship?
Are you fairly equal or is one of you more dominant, just not.. Dominant? If that makes sense.

I wonder if you're making a subconscious comparison and that seeing he is owned by her gives you the feeling on some level that she is above you on the food chain, so to speak. Not sure if I'm making sense.
 
Hi Cleo,

Some people like vanilla ... some like chocolate ... and some like both, right? Maybe your boyfriend likes both (kink and vanilla). I think it's possible.

Re (from nycindie):
"I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask that he not display the collars nor wear the jewelry when he is with you."
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I agree.

Re:
"He should be able to be free and not 'owned' by anyone when he is with you."
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Totally agree.

Re (from Cleo):
"How is that jewelry any different from my wedding ring, or from the stuff he sees in my apartment when he comes over, the things that are obvious signs of the intimacy between me and my husband?"
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Your husband isn't claiming ownership over you. Words of ownership aren't engraved into your wedding ring (I presume).

Of course I realize that what you're really hoping to do through this thread is make internal changes within yourself; you aren't looking for ways to "change him" to suit you. I've never had a partner who was into kink so I don't know what that's like. I guess it would be strange to me ... so strange that it would register outside my range of hearing, if you take my meaning. You've had some experience with kink so it's not outside your range of hearing.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Cleo said:
The thing is, BDSM does speak to me, and with another partner, I have done some stuff that I never would have dreamed of doing a couple of years ago - very fun, and liberating.
Which is why it's even more interesting to me why this triggers me so much. Maybe it's because his relationship with her is so full on kinky - I can't compete? Than again, who wants to compete in poly?
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I can relate to that. My gf and I are both kinky but we have an egalitarian relationship. When we first met, I realized I am a more assertive person, she is gentler and has a harder time making decisions. So, I lead sometimes. But I did not have it in me to be her Domme, to be in a 24/7 thing. I didn't want it. I just got done raising 3 kids to adulthood. I didn't want to be someone's else's "superior." I wanted to be with an adult.

But my gf has been in a couple 24/7 M/s relationships. I think it did take me/us a year or so to work out our dynamic around power play, and who's on Top this time, and who is the little, etc etc etc.

So, I sometimes felt "less than" her former Masters, who had such complete control over her, what she wore, the collar, even when she could do her bodily functions of eating and eliminating.

However, we worked it out with patience and LOTS of talking.

We are both kind of off men now, and I, personally, have had enough experience with Doms and Dommes myself in the past 6 years, rather than thinking they are these big bad-ass super dudes or hellcats with tons of confidence and authority, I have found, the huge majority I have met are shy, with low self esteem and lots of hangups!
 
I'm glad that you see the jewellery as similar to a wedding ring. I don't know many people who would think it's okay to request a partner to remove their wedding ring so it's not okay to ask them to remove another symbol of commitment to someone else. Some people might think it's okay because it's symbolic of an alternative, kinky relationship, but that's usually because they view sex in a negative light. It's unseemly so it is alright to ask for it not be in view.

I think your partner has made it clear that vanilla relationships are of great interest to him with his actions. If he wasn't really enthusiastic about sex and the like, I'd say there could be an issue. I've known many people with vanilla and kinky relationships ongoing simultaneously. Their brain can and does work like that.
 
Cleo, I don't think you're being controlling. You're being curious and concerned, and you've stated that you recognize that your discomfort and other negative emotions about his sub-ness are *your* issues, not something *he's* doing or not doing. Which is awesome, because so many people wouldn't be able to own that and would blame their partner.

As for the different dynamics... Hubby and I have a BDSM dynamic in our marriage. Not even close to full-time, because I'm way too oppositional for that; it's purely during sexual situations. I'm submissive and have known it for years, but didn't act on it; he uncovered his Dominant side after we opened our marriage. That aspect of our sex life is purely domination/submission, no bondage, pain, etc. because he isn't able to do those things without feeling like he's being abusive.

But when I give control to him, I do so knowing that I'm safe and can stop him at any time, and knowing that the only things he'll "make" me do are things he knows that I'm okay with but am unable to bring myself to do because of a whole lot of BS and trauma in my past. With him controlling the situation, I can explore those desires and aspects of my sexual interests without all the negative voices and traumatic memories resurfacing. And I'm able to trust that he has a strong enough grip on *himself* that he will never go beyond what I can tolerate, that he will always stop if I safeword or even if he sees a subtle signal that I'm not handling things, and that he will never judge me negatively for the things I do during those times.

Sometimes, I need that, and he's the one in my life who's best suited to do it.

In our case, Hubby has asked that I not engage in any Dom/sub type stuff with any other partner. He prefers to be my only Dom, and I prefer it that way as well; I wouldn't be able to give that kind of control to anyone else. And while Hubby's okay with the idea of *me* dominating another partner, that's something that is completely out of my capacity to do; in fact, Guy's desire for me to dominate him and my inability/refusal to do so was what ended our relationship.

I think everyone has different needs from relationships, and one of the biggest benefits of polyamory is that someone can get all of their needs met without expecting *one* other person to meet them all. Your boyfriend needs to be submissive and gets that need met by his other girlfriend... but have you considered that because they have that dynamic, she might be unable to meet a need of his for *vanilla* sex, and so he goes to you to have that need met? Just because he's submissive doesn't mean that's ALL he is. You're meeting a need for him as well, or he wouldn't keep you as a partner.

As for your discomfort with seeing the jewelry and other evidence of his D/s relationship, I agree with others who've said that's a perfectly reasonable and logical way to feel. The jewelry does sound along the same lines as a wedding ring, so I would say that if you wouldn't be willing to take off your wedding ring if your boyfriend asked, you maybe should tolerate his wearing the jewelry his other girlfriend gave him. Especially since you say he *is* taking it off before physical intimacy with you.

On the other hand, the other stuff that you've seen around his apartment... to me, that's along the same lines as not leaving your vibrator sitting on your bed when you aren't going to use it with the partner who's coming over. You have every right to ask your boyfriend to put away the BDSM-ish stuff out of your sight when it's your time with him.
 
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Hey, Cleo. I think you're being very level-headed about this. It can be so hard to know in advance what we'll find difficult. All I can really say, is that I have had relationships that were deeply kinky and ones that were perfectly vanilla, and they've both been equally important to me. The connection with another person -- honesty, intimacy, symbiosis -- is unique and inherently valuable, no matter the particulars. I don't see kink as "more" just as "different".

Best of luck.
 
Cleo said:
The thing is.. what I keep thinking about... how is that jewelry any different from my wedding ring, or from the stuff he sees in my apartment when he comes over, the things that are obvious signs of the intimacy between me and my husband?
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For one, it's okay that he shares something with someone else that he doesn't with you. I think you understand this a bit. In fact, it's good that he's not just trying to replace you with another body while you aren't around (Well, Sally is going to be busy some nights, so when she's gone I'll just find ANOTHER Sally!); he actually really wants this other part of him fulfilled.

But that bit about the wedding ring resonated with me. I wear a necklace from my Master, with whom I also share a romantic relationship. I do not take it off. Ever. Well, there have been exceptions, but in general, no. I don't take it off when I go on dates, for sure. For me it IS like a wedding ring. It would bother me to remove it.

His domme came into his life after you; and it seems like it's more of a bedroom play thing than a 24/7? But you may want to talk to him more about what it means to him. It could be something special for him.
 
Thanks all, for your input. Lots to think about. Magdlyn and Annabel, good to read your stories about how different relationships with different dynamics can co-exist.

To clarify a couple of things: he was with his other GF for about a year already, when he and I met. She is also married. He was upfront about his kink from the start, its just I did not really get the extent of it until later.

I have never asked him to remove the jewelry. I don't know how I would feel if he kept it on during sex. That would be a BIG hurdle for me to overcome, to have those words looking at me (I am very much a words person). A piece of jewelry with symbolic meaning but without words would not bother me nearly as much.

I still feel like there is something I am missing here, some thing to work through, something I am too afraid to look at maybe. I think this whole issue touches on what is the essence of poly (for me). Which is, being able to let other people be other people, let them be who they are, not try to change them or their other connections and relationships. Enjoying the connection I have with them. As long as their other relationships do not affect my relationship with them negatively.

I have asked him what would happen if she and I met and she did not like me / approve of me. I imagined that her being his Domme, could mean that she could veto me. He just laughed and said well that would be too bad for her if she doesn't like you, but so what? So again, there's nothing really about his behavior I want to change. Just curiously looking into my reactions to all this (and hope to lessen the anxieties that these things are causing me)
 
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