I don't want to be poly under these circumstances

[GalaGirl]

It's all or nothing with him. He thinks I'm overcomplicating the whole situation. Am I?

No. He is minimizing/blame shifting/cajoling you because he wants a triad.

It's simple enough for you to say "I don't want to be in a triad."

It isn't going to happen just because he says so. There's 3 people in a triad, each with their own voice, their own willingness to participate. Yours is not on board. You do not trust him.

If he's acting out at you because he's disappointed your answer is "I am not up for a triad. I don't want to join you in your cheating affair with her" he could behave better than that.

To him, she is just as important as I am, if not more so because of her sensitivity and feelings. But what about mine? Am I being selfish?

No. Selfish/inconsdierate/clueless is what he is being. The continuum is

(Selfish -- self full -- selfless)

The ends are the titled sides of the see-saw.

Selfish = Mememememe! My stuff and what I want. I ignore what other people need to be healthy. Just focus on me!

Selfless = Themthemthem! Their stuff and what they want. I ignore what what I need to be healthy. Just focus on them!

Self full = is the balanced place in the middle. I meet my needs first so I do not burn out or run dry. Then I gift my help to other people to assist them in meeting their reasonable needs as I am willing and able.

Like putting your mask on first in an airplane crash so you can breathe ok. BEFORE helping others with their masks. If you help them with theirs while neglecting yours? You don't help yourself or as many people because you run out of air. Keel over dead.

Is my heart overpowering my brain? Or vice versa?

I think you are correct to question all this poor behavior.

I think you are in poly hell.

I think he's taking you for granted, obsessing over the new partner, trying to make unilateral decisions for all. Coupled with double standards/selfishness/changing spotlight game. If he makes it be about you and how you stink? The spotlight isn't shining too closely or too brightly on his behaviors is it?

I feel like if I don't try this relationship out, I'm going to lose him. But have I lost him already?

Yes. Whether this is temporary poor behavior or permanent poor behavior remains to be seen. But he is lost to ethical behavior and to treating you well right now.

If this is not a joyous yes for you? Don't go there. Fear of losing him is bad reason to enter a triad and join them in their cheating affair.

Just when I feel like I can talk to her, (yesterday) and have an honest conversation, she calls him (this morning) and cried about her jealousy and insecurity of not being equal.

Talk to a heathy someone else OUTSIDE the system. She's a cheating person who is insecure and jealous and tells him her crazy which he then choose to dump on you. You also do not trust her. So why pick her to help you with your problems?

Do not add to your load.

My fear of being alone definitely has its own power. I am 33 years old. I have two children, one of whom is disabled. Finances have always been a struggle for us as we are pretty much paycheck to paycheck and have been for years. Getting a divorce isn't going to benefit either one of us or the children for that matter. But having a sad, depressed mommy isn't fair to my girls either.

If you cannot have a clear cut win-lose, go with "which stinks less?"

Of those two, which stinks less? I would say (learning to overcome fear of being alone) stinks less than (being sad and depressed participating in a cheating triad.) Are you willing/able to see a counselor to strengthen yourself and make a plan?

Model the behavior you want your girls to do. Would you want your girls to grow up and agree to a cheating triad from fear of being alone?

I am a loving and forgiving human being.

That is good in general. In this specific situation -- Are you operating from the balanced "self full" place? Are you meeting you needs first, so you do not burn out?

If burnt out, are you focussing on self care and declining new requests (reasonable or not)

If not burnt out, are you helping others with their reasonable requests to assist in meeting their needs? Saying NO to their unreasonable requests?

I am this broken, angry, out of balance person. I just want to know how to feel like there is more in my future than sharing my husband with a woman I can't trust. Not that I can trust him either at this point.

You seem to stiff arm away your feelings there. So I take the liberty of writing the blue part over in first person like you own it.

I think you are not becoming broken. You ARE feeling broken.

I think you are not becoming angry. I think you ARE angry.

I think you are discombobulated by your husband's less than honest behaviors lately. That's not you being selfish. That is the situation as it is. It's not your normal life and way of going. It's been destabilized.

The feelings are unfun, but appropriate for the situation. NOBODY I know would be all "Hooray! I am so happy!" when placed in this situation. They all would be discombobulated and upset too.

Start operating from the self full place. Maintain personal boundaries. Say "No."

You can make your future. It might be "I am no longer afraid to be on my own, I have become more assertive, I am more balanced and self full. I am financially independent and do not live paycheck to paycheck."

Those are reasonable goals to have and work toward. I encourage you to talk to a counselor on how to implement those healthy things.

They also can happen with or without the husband. He's another story. Again... I do not think he's holding up his end of the marriage stick. He's bahving poorly in many ways. You can ask him to stop, but you cannot make him. He either does or does not.

Make your requests. If he is not willing or if he falls short? Make your next decisions from there. Maybe even leave. You don't have to accept every invitation to Crazy Town that you are given.

Galagirl

 

[Wife]

GalaGirl,

I want to express my appreciation to you for taking time to address my complicated situation. And to all the others as well. Given that I had nobody to reach out to, this has helped me immensely. And I appreciate the honesty I have received thus far.

The three way messages were my attempt (via his request) to be more included, but they don't seem to be panning out. I don't see this forced bonding as a way for me to be able to talk to them. I suppose I wanted to see if it would help. After all, I don't hate her. Quite the contrary actually. But one of the things they spoke about on the phone this morning was that she's upset because she wants to be someone's primary. This is not unreasonable. He tries to convince her that she is OUR primary. But that is unrealistic. We are a primary couple and he has added her to a relationship that already had it's issues (unbeknownst to me) and that is unfair to her. Given that she is in a failing marriage of her own, she owes it to herself to mourn that loss before implementing a potential new one if this triad is not meant to be. I have tried to express my compassion and understanding to my husband. Our marriage is like a fire. If it is strong, it can grow to insurmountable levels. She is the wind. Wind can help a fire grow, if the fire has a strong foundation. However, if the fire is weak, the wind will eventually extinguish it. I got the expected eye-rolling, but I was acknowledging that we HAVE issues in our marriage. The point was to get him to understand that allowing wind to blow on a weak fire was going to put it out. Instead, he took it as me being negative and trying to exclude her. Granted, they both try to tell me that the feelings they have for each other just "happened", and I'm not so close minded that I don't see that as a possibility. But she was added to an existing problematic relationship for the wrong reasons. You can't add a person because you think you're missing something. You're not fixing anything. You're creating your own demise. On the other side of the fence, if she truly is in love with him, and she wants to be somebody's primary, why does she feel she doesn't deserve that? Why does she feel like becoming part of an existing relationship would make her a primary? I guess I'm looking out for her feelings as well. He says that no matter what, he never wants to be without me. So if this If my husband and I are able to fix our marriage and we mutually agree this triad isn't going to work, (hoping that we can communicate better) where does that leave her? Brokenhearted. And that's not fair to her. But he'd rather cross that bridge when we get to it. And I for one will not prolong the inevitable if I don't have to. Expectations and scenarios need to be addressed.

 

[Wife]

He has started to open up to me a little and said this to me today:

"There are so many couples that have a girlfriend. I don't know why we can't have one. I've been pointing out for years how unhappy I've been, (NO HE HAS NOT) and I wouldn't have fallen for someone else if you had taken care of me like I begged you to. You made your bed, now sleep in it. This can benefit both of us".

Three problems here.

Clearly he is mistaking having a girlfriend with a poly relationship. Having a girlfriend is one thing, but those two embarked on that journey long before I became a part of it, and not by their choice.
Berating me is not going to help the situation, it's only going to upset me. So his attempt to make this work for us, is dwindling the longer it takes him to accept responsibility for his actions.
And lastly, but not least importantly, he has excluded her by saying this could benefit both of us. Either that or he is acknowledging that this will benefit the two of them and not the THREE of us. Someone is being left out.

Until he has a clear understanding of all these things, I don't know how to stay positive and optimistic. I'm sure the hell trying tho.

 

[LoveBunny]

How dare he speak for you, telling his girlfriend she is a primary partner to you both! He is really trying to force this triad, and it doesn't seem like either of you women are on board. How selfish!

Plus, he's demanding neither of you take on other lovers. I guess only he can have two lovers of the opposite sex. It is b.s., my friend. Seriously, you need to tell him this isn't happening. You're not going to invite his cheating girlfriend into your innermost life. You are not feeling what he feels, and you are not open to having her as your second life-partner, so cut the crap.

By doing this, you are not limiting their relationship in any way and you don't have to feel guilty. You are not obligated to take in his girlfriend because he wants it any more than you would be obligated to have a baby because he wants it or get a pet monkey because he wants it. It's ridiculous.

Unbelievable.

 

[LoveBunny]

He has started to open up to me a little and said this to me today:

"There are so many couples that have a girlfriend. I don't know why we can't have one.

Actually, as far as I can tell, there are lots of couples out there SEEKING a girlfriend, but not many experienced, confident, bisexual women are willing to date couples as a package deal. Instances of a couple "adding" a girlfriend to their marriage successfully seem rather rare, and it seems like most of the people trying to make such an arrangement are newbies.

 

[GalaGirl]

You know what? That post reads like "her stuff, his stuff, her stuff, his stuff." All lost in a fog of them and their problems and their stuff. Where are YOU?

Then I was glad to read that post. Stepped back somewhat from their drama stuff. And you seem to be calling it like it is and spot the BS yourself in that post.

Until he has a clear understanding of all these things, I don't know how to stay positive and optimistic. I'm sure the hell trying tho.

I think he doesn't care to understand because he lacks respect for you.

Instead of trying to feel super positive or super optimistic? I think you could accept this all feels horrible. And focus on being "ok enough for the situation" and concentrate on minimizing MORE damage to you. By being more assertive and be more clear about your boundaries. Seek a counselor to help you sort all this out.

LONGER VERSION

I think you can focus here...

He tries to convince her that she is OUR primary.

Why is he speaking for you? Rather than you speaking for yourself? That is not respectful.

The current marriage model agreement is not a "coprimary" open model one. He hasn't renegotiated that with you. The current agreement is

• You and him have an an open model marriage. In this article, a "1a" type.
• You and him are primaries.
• You and him participate in swing.
  • Him and her have a FWB arrangement and they play solo when you are at work. They have your goodwill for this

He is jumping the gun offering her a (2b) that isn't in place at this point in time.
He's neglecting to renegotiate with you first. That is not respectful.

It's ok that they grew feelings for each other, but it is NOT ok how they are going about this. Her husband is being cheated on. You are being run over.

He also withheld information for a long time about (you and him) problems, grew resentful, and now is being all "you made your bed, like it or lump it" like you failed at mind reading him!

If he's going to be like that, I think you could have to lump it that he is no longer a healthy partner for you and disband.

I got the expected eye-rolling, but I was acknowledging that we HAVE issues in our marriage.

If he's not up for analogies, and prefers you speak plainer, he could say so without eye rolling. That lacks respect for you.

You could also be more direct. Stop being all about "wind and fire." Just tell it more plain and more direct. I like analogies too, but will adjust for plainer speaking for people who do not communicate that way.

"I want you to tell me early when something is a problem so we have a chance to fix it while small. Not expect me to mind reader you and then act out at me because I cannot cannot solve what I do not know about. Could you be willing to speak up sooner in future? Could you be willing to sort out the backlog?"

"I want you to stop talking FOR me. You can tell her you are willing for her to be your coprimary. You cannot tell her she is OUR coprimary when you haven't even checked in with me. Could you be willing to stop running over me like that?"

"I want you to stop talking OVER me. Do not offer her a model that does not yet exist. We agreed to a 1a. You are offering her a 2b. Could you be willing to ask me what I am up for rather than just assume I am up for all you are?"

If he is not willing to show you basic respect and work WITH you like that, you don't have to stay there.

Granted, they both try to tell me that the feelings they have for each other just "happened", and I'm not so close minded that I don't see that as a possibility.

Could tell them HOW you are willing to be together ethically from this point forward.

Is your hubby going to stop talking for you/over you/eyeball rolling? Show more respect? If not, do not agree to anything. You do not need to subsume yourself for the relationship. Disband.

Is in-the-dark hubby going to be told? If not, offer nothing. You do not need to join their cheating conspiracy. Maybe even disband. Consult your values on this.

If yes? He was already told? And you are up for working toward co-primary? Suggest trying on a V (or really an N).

You don't want to be in a cheating thing or in a triad+1. So don't be. Your willingness to participate in things belongs to you. You are up for it or not. It's that simple. No explanation required. He could respect your "no, not willing." That is another way to show respect for others. We LISTEN when they say "no."

He says that no matter what, he never wants to be without me.

Awesome. How do his current wonky behaviors help promote your eager and joyful staying-ness? It's fresh to think you would put up with shenanigans just so he can have his want of "never be without you." So what behavior does he expect himself to change and improve? What behavior do you expect him to change or improve? How will progress be measured? What are the deal breakers?

If my husband and I are able to fix our marriage and we mutually agree this triad isn't going to work, (hoping that
we can communicate better) where does that leave her? Brokenhearted. And that's not fair to her.

He doesn't have to agree with you that it won't work. You could not consent to participate. It is not your job to "educate" your hubby on why this is crazy idea. You can just say "No thank you." Be responsible for your stuff -- your willingness to participate in things? That's your stuff.

"Brokenhearted" is a dating risk in ANY dating situation. Not everyone one dates is a long haul runner. People break up, they are sad for a while. They move on. She's a grown woman who chose to enter this of her own free will. Presumably she understands that risk and is ok with it. You do not have to manage her feelings for her so she never feels yucky. Her feelings, her dating life, and her dating risks? All her stuff.

If he dating someone who is an "unhealthy case load" rather than "a healthy partner?" He's not a counselor. He could know his own limitations and learn to pick healthier people to be with. Not your job to teach him that or pick his people or him. His stuff.

You could be willing for each one of you to be responsible for each of your own stuff.

I for one will not prolong the inevitable if I don't have to. Expectations and scenarios need to be addressed.

Good for you! You are becoming firm of purpose.

You could start by being clear "I don't want cheating in a network I am in. I want all parties it affects consenting or not a go. I also rather it be an N rather a triad." Be clear from the start about what you are and are not up for. That is fair and it is clear. That is you owning your stuff.

Don't pussyfoot on that because you worry (he) might be disappointed or upset. Or she will go all "delicate flower insecure mess."

So what? It's not the end the world. He can be upset. He can handle his feelings appropriately. You are all adults, not tantrum throwing toddlers. He can handle his stuff.

So what? It's not the end of the world. If she goes all delicate flower waif? She can call herself a counselor to help her cope appropriately rather than turning her BF (him) into her counselor. She can handle her stuff.

He doesn't like her turning him into her "counselor?" He can tell her no. And tell her to call the right person. Exercise firm boundaries of his own. He can handle his stuff.

If he tries to dump his problems with her on to you? You can say "No, thank you. I see that you are frustrated with your GF's problems. I suggest you solve it directly with her." Hand his stuff back to him. Do not accept him fobbing his stuff on to you.

Let the other people hold their own baggage. You hold yours.

Hang in there!

Galagirl

 

[Wife]

How dare he speak for you, telling his girlfriend she is a primary partner to you both! He is really trying to force this triad, and it doesn't seem like either of you women are on board. How selfish!

Plus, he's demanding neither of you take on other lovers. I guess only he can have two lovers of the opposite sex. It is b.s., my friend. Seriously, you need to tell him this isn't happening. You're not going to invite his cheating girlfriend into your innermost life. You are not feeling what he feels, and you are not open to having her as your second life-partner, so cut the crap.

By doing this, you are not limiting their relationship in any way and you don't have to feel guilty. You are not obligated to take in his girlfriend because he wants it any more than you would be obligated to have a baby because he wants it or get a pet monkey because he wants it. It's ridiculous.

Unbelievable.

She has made it clear that he is the only love she is going to take, aside from me if it goes that far. Which makes me question her intentions. Like I stated, this is beginning to feel like I'm the secondary in their relationship.

 

[Wife]

GalaGirl, that article you mentioned was very good. I would hope that we are in a 1a model relationship, however, it doesn't seem to be that way.

 

[GalaGirl]

Does she tell you this stuff?

Or your husband tells you she says this?

Galagirl

 

[playfulgirl]

As someone who has dated couples here's my advice on messaging. I think 3 way messaging can lead to hassles. But real lady and I keep a 3 way thread for things that are specifically related to 3 way activities (ie vacation planning, scheduling family time. We also have direct messaging between each dyad in the vee and these are our primary communication strands. Emotional communication occurs best in dyad arenas. Lady doesn't need to know if I'm pissed at real because he was to busy playing league of legend to talk to me when I had a shitty day and I don't need to know lady needs snuggle time because of her bad day. I do need to know if our 3 way dinner plans are screwed due to lady needing to finish school or because the kids are sick.
One to one messaging will help maintain boundaries. It's sound like boundaries have been discouraged and good boundaries betwernn relationships could be helpful to you as you figure everything out decide your structure and needs and move forward. It gives you clear space to deal with all the emotions

 

[River]

.... But how do I deal with the car that if I don't love her I lose him?

I suspect "car" is a typo here. If so, may I have a correction?

 

[River]

The big question is, is he willing to work on his marriage?

Leaving everything else aside, including the words which follow in this post, this does seem to be the poignant question.

I recently found out that he husband is unaware of the situation. I am not ok with this because I think it's wrong, but that is not my decision to tell him I guess.

Unless there is honesty all around, the whole thing is standing on quicksand -- only much, much worse than that.

My desired outcome is to keep my marriage intact. But without assurance from him that I am good enough for him to keep around, is neither fair to me or my children. I don't want to be an option. On the other hand, I have compassion for her. I try and see things from every point of view. In the long run, if my husband truly wants to be with me, where does that leave her? This is not fair to her either. His theory on "winging it" is not only ridiculous as it is obnoxious, but it's selfish in the sense that there are hearts on the line, and he isn't taking that into consideration. I am not opposed to a triad, but this relationship that they share did not include me, and the emotional infidelity has broken my heart. Mainly because I felt devalued. Like I was disposable and I didn't mean enough to either of them to tell me. Had I been completely oblivious, months down the road, this could have been much worse. He has asked that I not participate in the swing lifestyle at all until we as a triad can explore that option together. I don't think this is fair. This is honestly the last thing on my mind, but he is quick to put restrictions on it, and wants no restrictions on his relationship with her?! I just don't get it. I have to partake in these 3 way messages but I can't say I love you because it might make her jealous, I can't talk about our sex life because it upsets her unless she is allowed to go into detail about theirs... This all just seems so one sided and it's breaking me.

Some damage has been done to your trust. Period. And if he's not able and willing to work with you to heal that damage? Then what?

GalaGirl,

I want to express my appreciation to you for taking time to address my complicated situation. And to all the others as well. Given that I had nobody to reach out to, this has helped me immensely. And I appreciate the honesty I have received thus far..

Pfff.... If your husband (and she) were of no help to you in all of this, I find that very hurtful, unkind, and unsuppotrive.... If they continue to go on being unkind, hurtful and unsupporive, I'd consider bailing out of the whole thing. And taking good care of yourself in their absence.

Why is he speaking for you? Rather than you speaking for yourself? That is not respectful.

I have not read all of GalaGirl's post here, but I read enough to know she's got the gist of the problem. This "husband" is not taking responsibility for his unkind, insensitive treatment of you. If he will not, you deserve better.

 

[CalShep]

My two cents

Poly involves communication, honesty, negotiation and openness. Those are all things it feels like your husband is not giving at all. Not being forthright about his developing feelings? Wrong. Getting angry with you for having differing opinions and misgivings? Wrong. Trying to dictate rules to you instead of trying to work it out together? Super wrong.

What he wants is not true polyamory, IMO. He wants to coerce and guilt you into doing what he wants. He wants his cake and to eat it too. I'm sory but it seems like there is an awful lot wrong with your relationship, and if that's the case then any attempt to go along with being a triad is doomed to fail. In your shoes, I would say that if he wanted me to stay, we would need couples therapy, she would need to come clean to her husband because I will not be a cheating enabler, and they would need to take a break while we fixed things between us, because if our relationship is already broken then there is no way for me to be in a good place to accept adding another romantic partner to it. I have a very strong feeling your husband would react badly to all of those things, which raises huge red flags for me.

Seriously. You really need to take a good long hard look at how he is treating you, and decide in yourself if you are willing to continue taking his flagrant disrespect and contempt for the sake of keeping your marriage. I am sorry you are having to deal with this and my heart goes out to you, but you don't deserve this treatment.

 

[Wife]

CalShep and River, thank you for your advice as well. As I battle with this sea of emotions, I think I was really trying hard to find the simplicity in it. Hoping there was a "that's easy" button somewhere. But I'm beginning to realize that not only do I not deserve the treatment that I'm being given, I'm not going to bend over and take it either. I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. In my relationship, I have developed a weak codependency with him. Mainly because he is (or was) my rock. But I can be my own rock when it comes down to the brass tacks of this whole scenario. If I can't get him to put things on hold to work on us, then I may need to put things on hold in my marriage. I will not sacrifice my feelings, self-esteem and self worth for the sake of making him feel good about himself.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm beginning to realize that not only do I not deserve the treatment that I'm being given, I'm not going to bend over and take it either.

I will not sacrifice my feelings, self-esteem and self worth for the sake of making him feel good about himself.

Good for you!

I am glad that you are beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel and though things are still challenging in your situation, you are feeling a little bit clearer/better on the inside. I hope that inner clarity and inner stability continue to strengthen.

I can be my own rock when it comes down to the brass tacks of this whole scenario.

That's right. You can be your own rock.

hugs
Galagirl

 

[JaneQSmythe]

... I will not sacrifice my feelings, self-esteem and self worth for the sake of making him feel good about himself.

This.

I was on the other side - I was the "husband" in this situation, in that I was the one that fell for someone they were "playing" with (although, in my case, even the "playing" was not agreed upon to the extent that it happened). But my "fantasy" ideal was a Vee, not a triad (both of my boys are straight - and best friends).

We DID work through it, we did come out on the other side with both me and my husband, and me and my "cheating partner" as healthy relationships. But it wasn't magic. My husband asked for a "no contact" period while we determined if we were compatible to stay together. I agreed and honored that - we didn't negotiate it, but I had, personally, decided that "one year" was my limit. Yes, it was hard on Dude, and, no, he didn't have any say in the matter and could have left for good if he wanted to (he didn't - I don't know why, other that he cared about each of us).

Stuff happened, Dude reached out to MrS at the exact right time, discussions were had. This was four years ago. (You can read about it in my "Journey" blog here.) I think part of the reason that we worked out was that I admitted how wrongly I had acted from the moment it came to light (actually before) and that when MrS forgave me/us he did so fully (completely, done). - which I don't think he could have done without each of our heartfelt repentance.

Sad stories CAN have happy endings, but not, I think, if people are in denial and unwilling to face the consequences of their actions.

 

[sparklepop]

Hi Wife,

I think a lot of wonderful and helpful things have been said here already. In all honesty, I am quite appalled by your husband's behaviour - at least what I've heard from your side.

All I can do is second the importance of holding your own and being your own rock. Once you learn to do this, you will find a deep sense of inner strength that you perhaps haven't fully embraced before. This will be really good for you.

As GG said, it's OK to be angry. It's truly OK to feel whatever you feel. You've essentially been cheated on and lied to - that's not going to feel good. Accept your emotions and weather them. The only way out is through. They will pass in time.

In the meantime, stand firm with your own boundaries and wants. This includes not knowing what you want - it's perfectly acceptable to say "I don't know at this time, so I'm not willing to agree to anything right now." Stating your boundaries isn't selfish.

For instance, it's perfectly acceptable to say "I don't want to be in a marriage where one of us is out with someone else every night." This is about YOUR needs in a marriage-style relationship. This is different to "I want you to see her less." That's about him. You can't control what he does, only what you do. Talk about what *you* want and what *you* don't want, not about what you think *he* should do. Does that make sense?

What are the consequences of your husband lying to you / withholding his feelings? Has he given any justifiable explanation? From the sounds of it, he isn't owning anything. If he feels that he was neglected during your relationship, he had a part to play in that too. He chose to stay around whilst feeling neglected. He chose to effectively 'look elsewhere'. It's fine for him to give an explanation as to why he felt the need to do what he did, and it's fine for him to express that he felt neglected. What isn't ok is him avoiding any ownership over his participation in the events of your marriage.

In any case, peeling back all the layers, you're now in a situation where your husband is in love with someone and wants to see her daily. He's not willing to slow down. Whilst many of us (myself included) would say that this is poly madness and it's far too much to expect you to adjust to so quickly, arguing 'rights' and 'wrongs' won't change the reality of your situation. I do truly understand what you are going through, and I have been in poly situations where my partner has determined our reality. In these cases, we can only choose to stay, to leave or to try to negotiate.

As a final note, I do understand that divorce or separation doesn't seem like a viable option to you, but I do personally feel that you cannot stay in a situation through fear of what it would be like to be apart. I also think that your husband doesn't believe for a second that you would ever leave him. This gives him a lot of room to basically push for whatever he wants. Do you genuinely think your husband would stay if you'd done what he has done, not owned any of it and told him that he needs to get on board with your new love?

A good friend of mine once told me that you have to be willing to lose someone if you are going to be willing to stand up to them. I'd say the same to you. Don't get coerced into something that doesn't feel good to you. Don't get rushed into something you want to take slower. It's not a case of worrying about him leaving you for her - HE is at risk of YOU leaving HIM. Surely?

Where do you think you will go from here?

 

[Wife]

Thank you to all. Just to give an update. My husband says that he remains firm that he wants us to be a trio. He claims that it would be unfair to both of them to ask for a break or to put things on hold. He is adamant about the three of us chatting because he thinks that will help she and I bond. (*cough cough *bullshit*) This cannot be forced. And I'm having trouble finding a side of this that I like at all given the lies that it started on. She herself is not a bad person, quite the contrary in fact. But being nice doesn't make you a good person either if your intentions are not admirable or in good faith. The fact remains that she is cheating on her husband and I don't like that. She says she doesn't care if her marriage ends because she'll have us. Pffft!!! News flash darling, I think my husband is very clear about not wanting to be without me, and if that is truly the case, do not put that kind of guarantee on yourself or this "possible" triad. Furthermore, do not use me or my husband as an escape or back up plan. Come clean about your indiscretions and deal with the consequences. I will not be your enabler. As far as my husband goes, I'm still trying to tell him that we need to work on us. His response was inviting her to join us out of town for my birthday. (I don't know if there are words to explain how furious that makes me) Not to mention it's extremely hurtful. We need time to focus on our marriage. If I can't get that through his head this weekend, then I may just need to take a step back from both of them. I will never say that I'm giving up, but he needs to realize what is truly at stake.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am very glad to hear you say all this. You sound like you have left the confusion place and able to see and call the BS. Keep going! Be firm about your boundaries. He is being all kinds of fresh!

Not out of the woods yet, but you are doing WAY better. Good for you!

Prepare for antics -- "I hate you! You are mean!" sort of stuff. Or silent treatment or whatever. Do NOT put up with abuse. HE made his bed, he can lie it and either shape it up or you leave. That is what is at stake here.

I think he takes it for granted that you would just stay no matter what crazy he does.

I think you are right about her wanting to use you guys as a ticket out of her marriage, but ignore her. You put your well being first, then the health of the marriage. She's not your concern. His bad behavior is your concern, because it affects you.

If the health of the marriage is on a downward spiral because of his poor behaviors? It's a bummer. And you are on a journey to accepting that keeping YOU healthy is honestly a bigger priority than keeping a broken marriage going. A healthy marriage takes two to tango, and he's not being a good partner.

I suggest you reflect on what is reasonable time limit for you.

My husband says that he remains firm that he wants us to be a trio.

That's nice. He can want things.

He claims that it would be unfair to both of them to ask for a break or to put things on hold.

He can feel it's "unfair" but you ARE allowed to ask him things. He could then answer them.

• Yes, he is willing to do what you ask.
• No, he is not willing to do what you ask.

It is that simple. HE is the one overcomplicating things.

If it were me in those shoes? I would be flat and ask 3 times. Fully expecting shenanigans but just pro forma. I operate on "3 strikes I am out." *I* don't have to be stuck just because someone else is playing games. I certainly don't have to keep investing time and energy if they are basically just going to keep on with less than respectful behavior toward me.

• Gonna be straight up about this? Stop talking over me? Stop forcing a triad? Come clean with the cheated on hubby?"(It's not fair!)
• Gonna be straight up about this? (It's not fair!)
• Gonna be straight up about this? (It's not fair!)
• Ok. I have asked 3 times. I am not getting a "yes, I willing to do these things" answer. I am getting runaround. So I'm going to call your answer "No. I am NOT willing to do this."

Then I would make my decisions from there.

• He is NOT going to stop talking for/over me
• He is NOT going to stop forcing the triad on me
• He is NOT going to come clean with the cheated on spouse.

So... I'm out. I don't play in games like that. I think I deserve to be treated well, not poorly.

You have to make your own decisions about this. I do not recommend staying there forever.

I think my husband is very clear about not wanting to be without me, and if that is truly the case, do not put that kind of guarantee on yourself or this "possible" triad.

See this for what it is. It sounds pretty... telling you that he never wants to be without you. But don't make her your focus. He's "slippery fishing" so the spotlight does not shine on his behavior. Bring the focus back on to his behavior. So.... what's HE doing to make you joyous about staying here?

It can be VERY tempting to make the other party the bad guy, esp when they have screwball ethics of their own. It is not comfortable to focus on a partner we love telling us one thing ( "I love you!") but actually doing another. (less than loving and respectful behaviors.)

For all you know he's telling her stories too to keep her on the line. "Just give it more time, I will convince her... blahblahblah."

Result: he gets both of you staying with him in unhealthy situation. I don't think he cares how he behaves, so long as he "wins" and gets what he wants.

YOUR problem is your husband's behavior affecting you. Keep the spotlight on his behaviors. Do not make her the focus.

He is adamant about the three of us chatting because he thinks that will help she and I bond. (*cough cough *bullshit*) This cannot be forced.

Ok. Chat in trio over email. Tell them both -- "Thank you for the invitation. My RSVP is no. I don't want to join you both a trio. I'm not up for joining your cheating affair. Y'all continue how you want. Leave me out of it." There. Done.

As far as my husband goes, I'm still trying to tell him that we need to work on us. His response was inviting her to join us out of town for my birthday.

Again with talking OVER you. This man lacks respect.

Do not make more dates with him if he's going to piggyback his cheating partner on to them.

I may just need to take a step back from both of them. I will never say that I'm giving up, but he needs to realize what is truly at stake.

Take a step back from both is good. I hope you do that.

But "never give up trying to make a broken marriage fly?" I think you could have a time limit. You aren't going to be sitting around with this BS for 50 years right?

It is not your job to "make him realize" -- that's his job to do.

If you stick around (trying to make him realize) while being treated poorly? Bottom line: You are sticking around while being treated poorly.

He DOESN'T ever have to "realize" because he has what he wants: You sticking around no matter what.

Galagirl

 

[CalShep]

GG pretty much nailed it, so just adding my own quick support. I think you're doing everything right. You're keeping a relatively level head about this, he's the one stomping his feet and pouting because he isn't getting what he wants. And he is continuing to ignore that getting his way comes at the expense of you. He is not treating you at all as a partner, just as an obstacle. Stay strong; I absolutely agree with your decision in taking a step back from them both to have time to yourself to focus on your feelings and what's best for you. Because someone needs to.