I want to do right by them, but what I want is so wrong for them

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Posties

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Hey, all!

I'm a 27 year old man who has been in a 6 year relationship with a man my age. He has been my first boyfriend. When we first started dating, things were awesome. We were both seniors in college, everything was easy and fun. After graduation, we stayed together and after a few months doing long distance moved in together. At around this time I began to desire other men. It was the wrong thing to do but I cheated on my boyfriend with two different men once or twice over the following three years. I was trying so hard to be the boyfriend he wanted me to be, but I just wasn't satisfied with him alone. I felt incredibly guilty and ashamed.

Two years ago, I confessed to having these affairs and discussed my need to open our relationship. He agreed to allow me to meet men with his permission. At this point we were doing long distance and I slept with a few men over the course of the year. After we moved back in together, I slept with two different men and my boyfriend was clearly uncomfortable with the situation. We had a long talk. He said that he might eventually be comfortable with opening up our relationship if I could prove that I was 100% trustworthy and could respect his boundaries, but that he really wasn't as comfortable with my having sex with multiple people as he initially thought. I love him and when things were better with us it was so awesome, so I agreed to this and we continued the relationship.

Since I confessed to cheating, though, our relationship has been really rocky. My boyfriend has had several mental health crises (partially due to my aforementioned liasons and partially due to his intense and pervasive anxiety disorders). I've tried my best to be supportive of him, talking through his struggles, trying to help him find solutions, listening and respecting his boundaries. I stopped seeing other men, and I've had to shoulder a lot of the burden of our shared life. In spite of the challenges, I really do love my boyfriend. He is a selfless, sweet and genuine person.

Well, the crux of the matter is that we are now doing long-distance again. He gave me permission to sleep with other men as long as I don't tell him. So, I met up with a friend who I previously slept with during the period when our relationship was conditionally open. When we first met two years ago, I was extremely attracted to him and I didn't disclose I was in a relationship before we messed around. I also didn't specifically ask my boyfriend's permission, just rather his permission for us to meet up and then one thing led to another. It was my first officially poly hook up and I botched it royally. So, the next day, I told them both the truth. My friend was at first okay with it and my boyfriend very deeply hurt that I had betrayed him again. Slowly, my boyfriend forgave me and I didn't do anything further with my friend without explicit permission from him. Well, my friend and I had some good times over a period of two or three months and then things fizzled out. I tried to keep up the relationship, but he was often very distant toward me.

In any event, meeting my friend again recently, it was nice to see someone who I had been intentionally avoiding when our relationship was closed. I still find him very attractive. Well, I proposed we fool around again but he said that wasn't good for him. He said he is attracted to me too but needs to be in a monogamous relationship with someone in order to have sex without later feeling used. This explains his distance. I actually really respect his self-awareness and discipline to act according to his heart and not somewhere else. So, he left and since then we've texted a bit, just light stuff, but he's been distant again. I think he really likes me and wants me to dump my boyfriend for him. Truth is, I really like him too and I want to try being with him, even if it means being monogamous... and maybe even if I have to leave my boyfriend for it, as much as I dislike the hurt I'll cause him and the sinking feeling in myself that I'm making the wrong decision.

Well, I want to be true to them and to be honest with myself. I'm definitely attracted to other men and I don't believe I have to define myself as poly. I'm kind of open to trying monogamy with my friend to see if maybe my boyfriend was just the wrong person for me? I know that I've done a lot of things wrong to these two and I'm trying to make amends and do right by them now. I just wish there was some way that I could date my boyfriend and my friend... Do you have any advice for a lost soul?
 
you may have acted a bit clumsy in the past, but now it seems that actually the situation is just you wanting different things.

Would your current boyfriend be comfortable with you loving another man, not just having sex with him?

Would your new flat in any way be open to, not being one of your sexual thrills in the side, but being in a serious polyamorous relationship?

Would you feel comfortable dating these two men, but giving up all other sex on the side?

If you had to leave your current boyfriend, would you miss him terribly?
 
Norwegianpoly said:
you may have acted a bit clumsy in the past, but now it seems that actually the situation is just you wanting different things.

Would your current boyfriend be comfortable with you loving another man, not just having sex with him?

Would your new flat in any way be open to, not being one of your sexual thrills in the side, but being in a serious polyamorous relationship?

Would you feel comfortable dating these two men, but giving up all other sex on the side?

If you had to leave your current boyfriend, would you miss him terribly?
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Thank you for your response. "A bit clumsy" haha Yes, I was then a quite clumsy person!! :D But no longer!

Perhaps your questions were rhetorical, but I don't think that my boyfriend would be comfortable with me loving another man. He has expressed in the past discomfort with that idea. He isn't completely rigid, but I don't think he would feel naturally at ease with the idea of my loving another man. As much as I would him loving someone else, I guess.

As for the idea of entering a committal relationship with them both, I would actually really like that and I could imagine not needing sex outside of the relationship. But I don't think it would be to my friend's or my boyfriend's liking. Under different circumstances, it might have really worked between us three, but the way things played out my boyfriend has been really suspicious of my friend, and my friend might not be as interested in my boyfriend as me. I just don't think either would really be down for that in the end.

"the situation is just you wanting different things." I agree, but I guess it just seems kinda sad... :-/
 
Posties said:
As for the idea of entering a committal relationship with them both, I would actually really like that and I could imagine not needing sex outside of the relationship. But I don't think it would be to my friend's or my boyfriend's liking. Under different circumstances, it might have really worked between us three, but the way things played out my boyfriend has been really suspicious of my friend, and my friend might not be as interested in my boyfriend as me. I just don't think either would really be down for that in the end.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, it IS possible to be in a committed relationship with two people without them necessarily being in a relationship with each other. A Vee rather than a triad. In addition, a relationship can be committed and then also be open or closed (depending on whether other relationships are on the table or not).

However, in your case, I think you may have burned your bridges with this particular partner and potential partner. It sounds as though they are each seeking a monogamous primary-type relationships (with, possibly, some NSA sex on the side - as long as they are not the "side" - but it doesn't sound as though they are enthusiastic about even that much.)

I guess my advise would be to look at your current relationship - is it healthy for you? for him? Are your needs being met? If you are not a good fit then break up - NOT for someone else but because you are not a good match. You can love someone without being in a relationship with them. Love is not enough.

As for the friend...if you do decide to break up with your current boyfriend, understand that there is absolutely no guarantee that things will work out with the friend either. Jumping from one dysfunctional relationship into another with pre-determined issues (i.e. he knows your lack of fidelity with your boyfriend, I'm sure he has doubts as to your trustworthiness as a partner to him as well) just seems like jumping from the frying pan into the fire (How long before you get into an argument where you say "I left my BOYFRIEND for you, and this is how you treat me." or some such?) Might consider giving "solo poly" a try for while, date, figure out what you want, and what you have to offer, in a relationship.
 
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Insofar as leaving your relationship to start a new relationship with your friend, I agree with JaneQSmythe. Your friend sounds very monogamous and may even in the best of times doubt that you can give him the rigid fidelity that he desires in the long run. Don't go into the relationship expecting him to change. And don't leave your current relationship for any reason other than you don't want to be in your current relationship or you may, as you wrote, feel like you made the "wrong decision".

I don't know if 'solo poly' is for you either. You said that you are uncomfortable with your boyfriend loving other people ("As much as I would him loving someone else, I guess.") That's a red flag to me because the successful poly people I know have at least some compersion some of the time. If you started seeing people who were more poly you might encounter a whole new set of difficulties you don't have in your current relationship.

I will also say that my sister has anxiety issues too and it's hard on her and the people close to her. I love her and I know she appreciates when I try to help her out but it can be tough as you know. You have to decide if you want to support your boyfriend in a relationship, from afar, or not at all.

Good luck let us know how it goes.
 
Posties said:
Under different circumstances, it might have really worked between us three, but the way things played out my boyfriend has been really suspicious of my friend, and my friend might not be as interested in my boyfriend as me. I just don't think either would really be down for that in the end.
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I was no emplying that you should also make them date each each other. Why would that even be an option unless they are very attracted to one another?

I date to men and they in no way also date each other, they are more like brother-in-laws. In poly terms, we are in a V and I am their hinge.
 
JaneQSmythe said:
Just to clarify, it IS possible to be in a committed relationship with two people without them necessarily being in a relationship with each other. A Vee rather than a triad. In addition, a relationship can be committed and then also be open or closed (depending on whether other relationships are on the table or not).

However, in your case, I think you may have burned your bridges with this particular partner and potential partner. It sounds as though they are each seeking a monogamous primary-type relationships (with, possibly, some NSA sex on the side - as long as they are not the "side" - but it doesn't sound as though they are enthusiastic about even that much.)

I guess my advise would be to look at your current relationship - is it healthy for you? for him? Are your needs being met? If you are not a good fit then break up - NOT for someone else but because you are not a good match. You can love someone without being in a relationship with them. Love is not enough.

As for the friend...if you do decide to break up with your current boyfriend, understand that there is absolutely no guarantee that things will work out with the friend either. Jumping from one dysfunctional relationship into another with pre-determined issues (i.e. he knows your lack of fidelity with your boyfriend, I'm sure he has doubts as to your trustworthiness as a partner to him as well) just seems like jumping from the frying pan into the fire (How long before you get into an argument where you say "I left my BOYFRIEND for you, and this is how you treat me." or some such?) Might consider giving "solo poly" a try for while, date, figure out what you want, and what you have to offer, in a relationship.
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Thank you so much for reading and for your advice.

I agree with you. They are both very much traditional monogamous types, and, for some reason, I find myself attracted to that type often. And I suppose I can assume he doesn't think I'm 100% trustworthy, even though I am now.

As for my current relationship, I know your questions were rhetorical but I'll try to answer them. My relationship is not healthy. I've spent years being very swept up in his illness; I have feelings of love for him but I can't get over the resentment that I have for various things that occurred in the past. I'm not sure if it's healthy for him. I suspect not. He needs to change and we've gotten ourselves into a little rut. I think us ending would help him embrace new wind in his life.

Well, maybe in all of this I've lost sight of what it is that I want. Maybe being single, I can reconnect with myself and allow myself to live outside of the influence from my boyfriend.
 
Derobb said:
Insofar as leaving your relationship to start a new relationship with your friend, I agree with JaneQSmythe. Your friend sounds very monogamous and may even in the best of times doubt that you can give him the rigid fidelity that he desires in the long run. Don't go into the relationship expecting him to change. And don't leave your current relationship for any reason other than you don't want to be in your current relationship or you may, as you wrote, feel like you made the "wrong decision".

I don't know if 'solo poly' is for you either. You said that you are uncomfortable with your boyfriend loving other people ("As much as I would him loving someone else, I guess.") That's a red flag to me because the successful poly people I know have at least some compersion some of the time. If you started seeing people who were more poly you might encounter a whole new set of difficulties you don't have in your current relationship.

I will also say that my sister has anxiety issues too and it's hard on her and the people close to her. I love her and I know she appreciates when I try to help her out but it can be tough as you know. You have to decide if you want to support your boyfriend in a relationship, from afar, or not at all.

Good luck let us know how it goes.
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Thanks for kindly reading and advising me.

You're right. I can't give him the fidelity he's seeking. I think even if I tried hard I could only sustain it for a few months. I wish I could figure out what's so different about me and these guys that they want and cherish something that seems completely suffocating to me. Right, I really don't want to feel like I've made a wrong decision, though perhaps some regret is always inevitable in life.

Oh, I'm sorry that "as much as I would him" part was poorly worded. Actually, I am quite comfortable with him loving someone else. I was trying to say there that he's uncomfortable with it unlike me who is cool with it. In fact, I would welcome the opportunity to show him what it is I find so appealing. And, I agree, some amount of compersion has naturally occurred with me too. But, I've tried to stay true to my boyfriends condition of not getting too serious with outside relationships.

Well, maybe that makes the poly solo option seem better for me? With that outcome, in spite of being okay with my partner loving someone else, I think I would have to reckon with being comfortable as someone's secondary or tertiary partner. I'm not particularly jealous, but I do want to see someone at least regularly and I'm coming to the age where I'm thinking about the future and *gasp* settling down! haha Well, I learn best from experience so only time will tell!

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. It is a very fine line between helping and enabling, one that I have had trouble defining clearly in the past. She's lucky to have a good sibling in you and I hope that she can overcome her anxiety in the future. As an aside, mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction classes have helped my boyfriend considerably.

Thanks again!
 
Norwegianpoly said:
I was no emplying that you should also make them date each each other. Why would that even be an option unless they are very attracted to one another?

I date to men and they in no way also date each other, they are more like brother-in-laws. In poly terms, we are in a V and I am their hinge.
Click to expand...

I see. Well, I guess it would be an option because they both seem to really like me. I suppose I'm the "least common denominator" here! haha

So, they are friends but not sexual together, just with you, seperately. Can I ask? Is this relationship working for you three? It's maybe a very direct question, but I'm just curious because I've never met anyone in this situation before. Do you find that you have achieved a natural balance? Would it require a specific blend of personalities to work? Perhaps my friend and boyfriend would be open to this. They both do like me.
 
Posties said:
So, they are friends but not sexual together, just with you, seperately. Can I ask? Is this relationship working for you three? It's maybe a very direct question, but I'm just curious because I've never met anyone in this situation before. Do you find that you have achieved a natural balance? Would it require a specific blend of personalities to work?
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I'll reply even though this wasn't specifically directed at me - as I am in a similar situation, the MFM Vee seems to be a very well represented configuration on these boards.

If I recall correctly, Norwegianpoly's partners are friendly but live apart - I don't know if any of them are also dating anyone else.

My husband and my boyfriend both live with me - they were best friends before I got together with my boyfriend. I do think that we have achieved a natural balance and it definitely depends on the people involved. Our Vee is not closed in that we can date others - we are all dating Lotus to some degree and my boyfriend is the most interested in finding another partner.

Kevin's MFM Vee - in which he is one of the "arms" - also lives together. I don't believe they date outside of their Vee.

Bluebird is the hinge in another MFM Vee - her partners are both monogamous.

Phy is the hinge in another MFM Vee that lives together - she hasn't been around much as they just had TWINS!

Dagferi has two husbands and maintains two separate households - her partners have met and are cordial but her relationship with each is pretty separate.

I just point these out as functioning Vee's - but each configuration and living arrangements and degree of interaction depends on the people involved.
 
One more MFM Vee here! My husband CJ is bisexual and dating both men and women, my other partner Mark is hetero and mono. I do occasionally see other people, too, but am way too busy to maintain a third committed relationship. We all live together, and our life is quiet and easy-going.

My two relationships were completely separate to start with. At some point my partners met each other, got along well instantly and now we live together rather harmoniously. The guys are good friends nowadays, and we all feel we three are a family.
 
Posties said:
As an aside, mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction classes have helped my boyfriend considerably.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendation for my sister. I've never heard of that mindfulness therapy before. It's good that your boyfriend is actively working on his anxiety. Do you think that could resolve some of the stress in your relationship?

I am in a successful Vee relationship where my husband is monogamous. Here are some insights based on my personal observations that could be helpful if you do want to work on things. You'll note a lot of burden is on you initially but it gets easier in time.

-I think anything you do regarding polyamory, for at least the next year or so, will require extra attentiveness to your bf which could include unprompted texts saying I love you or sending him flowers at work etc. in addition to the standard communication skills. It should be done especially before or after seeing another partner.

-Understand that he will probably want "primary" status. This is the case in my relationship. You need to genuinely want this as well and respect the responsibility that comes with it for example if he says he wants you to spend less time with someone else, or not to go on a vacation with someone else, etc. I can and do question these controlling qualities of my husband to him but I think about winning the war not the battle. Obviously if you find yourself making concessions at every turn you need to bring this up to your boyfriend too.

-Remind each other specifically why you love each other and consider making him write this down so he can look at it if he gets anxious.

-Read this website together if you need an icebreaker to get started on the journey it really helped me and my husband! https://www.morethantwo.com/polyformonogamouspeople.html

Again good luck whether you stay in your relationship or not. EDIT: I don't mean to imply you should stay with your bf but I wanted to give you another option to consider.
 
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Hi Posties,

It is my impression that you don't do well in a monogamous relationship. I think you should seek multiple partners, but don't necessarily make someone a partner just because they're attractive to you. Make sure they would be a good fit for you as a person (and in your situation).

Re (from OP):
"I'm kind of open to trying monogamy with my friend to see if maybe my boyfriend was just the wrong person for me?"
Click to expand...

That's like activating a bomb ticker to see if the bomb will go off. Far too much would be at stake to make it a mere experiment.

Re:
"I just wish there was some way that I could date my boyfriend and my friend ..."
Click to expand...

Since your friend wants to be monogamous, you do not have a choice of dating him and your boyfriend both. I don't know of any special words you could say to your friend to make him change his mind. I think you have to respect his decision just as it is.

You could of course lie to your friend and tell him you've broken up with your boyfriend when you really haven't. But I'm sure you don't want to go down that road.

Re (from Posties):
"Maybe being single, I can reconnect with myself and allow myself to live outside of the influence from my boyfriend."
Click to expand...

That might be a good path for you (given that your relationship with your boyfriend is unhealthy).

Just to let you know, I am in a V where Snowbunny is the hinge and romantically connected to two men, me and Brother-Husband. The men are just platonic friends. We have been together as a V since early in 2006 and although the first few years were hard, we are getting along much much better today. So yes, it can be done. Would your friend and boyfriend be willing to become "the arms of the V" where you are the hinge?

I hope you can find a solution that works for all three of you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
JaneQSmythe said:
I'll reply even though this wasn't specifically directed at me - as I am in a similar situation, the MFM Vee seems to be a very well represented configuration on these boards.

If I recall correctly, Norwegianpoly's partners are friendly but live apart - I don't know if any of them are also dating anyone else.

My husband and my boyfriend both live with me - they were best friends before I got together with my boyfriend. I do think that we have achieved a natural balance and it definitely depends on the people involved. Our Vee is not closed in that we can date others - we are all dating Lotus to some degree and my boyfriend is the most interested in finding another partner.

Kevin's MFM Vee - in which he is one of the "arms" - also lives together. I don't believe they date outside of their Vee.

Bluebird is the hinge in another MFM Vee - her partners are both monogamous.

Phy is the hinge in another MFM Vee that lives together - she hasn't been around much as they just had TWINS!

Dagferi has two husbands and maintains two separate households - her partners have met and are cordial but her relationship with each is pretty separate.

I just point these out as functioning Vee's - but each configuration and living arrangements and degree of interaction depends on the people involved.
Click to expand...

Hello again! These are some beautiful examples of lovely relationships! It is very comforting for me to hear of so many successful Vee relationships. Wow, congratulations to Phy!! It seems if the outcome of a Vee were to occur, that my own relationship would likely also evolve in its own particular way as well.

But, to be honest, I'm still at the phase where I don't know if I even want a Vee with them. I think I need to step back and try to gain perspective on my own situation. Moreover, I don't know if I want to stay with my boyfriend and, with my friend, if I truly am just using him for sex like he felt years ago and if I really do want to be his boyfriend, monogamous or otherwise.

However, it is nice to hear how people are making it work and the thought that I could one day have that too is quite inspiring to me. Thanks!
 
Nadya said:
One more MFM Vee here! My husband CJ is bisexual and dating both men and women, my other partner Mark is hetero and mono. I do occasionally see other people, too, but am way too busy to maintain a third committed relationship. We all live together, and our life is quiet and easy-going.

My two relationships were completely separate to start with. At some point my partners met each other, got along well instantly and now we live together rather harmoniously. The guys are good friends nowadays, and we all feel we three are a family.
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Hello! Thank you for your response. It's inspiring for me to hear that things are going well for you three! What a nice family you have!

I guess my real problem is that aside from not knowing whether I want to propose a Vee relationship with them or not, I'm also dreadfully unsure about whether or not I want to continue things with my boyfriend. And, also I feel like I really am just trying to use my friend for some kind of folly. I think it could have in some way worked if I played my cards differently but somehow I just totally botched this one up! haha C'est la vie!

I don't know, maybe I should just chill out???
 
Derobb said:
Thanks for the recommendation for my sister. I've never heard of that mindfulness therapy before. It's good that your boyfriend is actively working on his anxiety. Do you think that could resolve some of the stress in your relationship?

I am in a successful Vee relationship where my husband is monogamous. Here are some insights based on my personal observations that could be helpful if you do want to work on things. You'll note a lot of burden is on you initially but it gets easier in time.

-I think anything you do regarding polyamory, for at least the next year or so, will require extra attentiveness to your bf which could include unprompted texts saying I love you or sending him flowers at work etc. in addition to the standard communication skills. It should be done especially before or after seeing another partner.

-Understand that he will probably want "primary" status. This is the case in my relationship. You need to genuinely want this as well and respect the responsibility that comes with it for example if he says he wants you to spend less time with someone else, or not to go on a vacation with someone else, etc. I can and do question these controlling qualities of my husband to him but I think about winning the war not the battle. Obviously if you find yourself making concessions at every turn you need to bring this up to your boyfriend too.

-Remind each other specifically why you love each other and consider making him write this down so he can look at it if he gets anxious.

-Read this website together if you need an icebreaker to get started on the journey it really helped me and my husband! https://www.morethantwo.com/polyformonogamouspeople.html

Again good luck whether you stay in your relationship or not. EDIT: I don't mean to imply you should stay with your bf but I wanted to give you another option to consider.
Click to expand...

I hope it helps! I do the mindfulness exercises too even though I don't have an anxiety disorder just to help reduce stress and anxiety.

Thank you for your advice. You know, I really think my boyfriend would be incredibly receptive to all of those, especially going further to show him that I love and appreciate him.

Right now, I'm feeling increasingly that I have to step back from the situation and take the time to really sort my feelings out. You know, I mean, like, am I just lusting after my friend? Do I really respect him and his heart? Am I really able to accept the challenges of an open relationship with my current boyfriend? I've got a lot to sort out. I need some nature time or something.
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi Posties,

It is my impression that you don't do well in a monogamous relationship. I think you should seek multiple partners, but don't necessarily make someone a partner just because they're attractive to you. Make sure they would be a good fit for you as a person (and in your situation).

Re (from OP):


That's like activating a bomb ticker to see if the bomb will go off. Far too much would be at stake to make it a mere experiment.

Re:


Since your friend wants to be monogamous, you do not have a choice of dating him and your boyfriend both. I don't know of any special words you could say to your friend to make him change his mind. I think you have to respect his decision just as it is.

You could of course lie to your friend and tell him you've broken up with your boyfriend when you really haven't. But I'm sure you don't want to go down that road.

Re (from Posties):


That might be a good path for you (given that your relationship with your boyfriend is unhealthy).

Just to let you know, I am in a V where Snowbunny is the hinge and romantically connected to two men, me and Brother-Husband. The men are just platonic friends. We have been together as a V since early in 2006 and although the first few years were hard, we are getting along much much better today. So yes, it can be done. Would your friend and boyfriend be willing to become "the arms of the V" where you are the hinge?

I hope you can find a solution that works for all three of you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Click to expand...

Hey, Kevin!

Thank you for taking the time to write! Your insight has brought me some clarity.

Yes, I probably don't do so well in a monogamous relationship, huh? haha I should really accept this about myself. A person's attractiveness can make things exponentially harder but I must press on!

Trying out monogamy with my friend... probably not the best idea. Dating them both... also probably not a possible thing.

I'd have to be completely evil to lie to my friend now! But no the purpose of this mission is to try to make things right not even further jacked.

I honestly don't think that they would be willing to become the arms of a Vee. Though I suppose I don't have much to lose at this moment!

Thanks for your well-wishes! I don't know if it can work out well for all three of us, but perhaps if I just prioritize what I need, all three of us will be happier in the long run? Life! So intense!
 
Yeah, even if the three of you don't end up together ... you can still hope for a happy ending for all three, right? :) Let's keep the optimism alive!
 
Posties said:
I wish I could figure out what's so different about me and these guys that they want and cherish something that seems completely suffocating to me.
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I've not come across many guys in their 20s who are looking to settle down into monogamy with anyone, so you're in the vast majority. Mother Nature wants you to be a busy bee right now. Gay or straight, most young men would seem to opt for "poly" if they could but instead go with the options offered. Open relationships are much more common among men than they are among hetero couples, as many (especially young) men want the option for multiple partners, so it would seem you've got that part going for you. I'm not sure if you're looking for multiple love relationships or if you're looking for a non-monogamous relationship.

Dan Savage has many helpful, insightful comments on the subject of non-monogamy if you haven't read or listened to them already. What he has to say would be right up your alley.
 
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