opalescent
Active member
I am sorry Journey.
How do I even start to explain??
- Thread starter Journeyofawakening
- Start date
Journeyofawakening
Member
This bit is the bit I cannot understand:
Is he so intolerant that he can't fathom that your thoughts on life are yours and worthy of as much respect as his own? I quite agree that if he doesn't want to be in a poly relationship with you, he should be honest and upfront about that. However, not having the natural curiosity and compassion to want to understand the woman you profess to love…well, it is not loving behaviour at all. It seems he's not leaving either of you with many options here.
I guess so...
And you're right, it's not loving behaviour. Maybe it comes from fear? Insecurity? I don't know but it makes me sad.
I guess he didn't like that I changed in more ways than one.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
The only "work" you have here is to turn away from guilt and face the direction of your beautiful future. Everyone learns as they go - EVERYONE! - so don't waste a moment of your precious life worrying about what you didn't know before you knew it. That's how life works, love. Everyone learns from experience.
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I loved a woman, still do, we talked and were both in separate words. She was city girl with money and I was happy in my woods, we are both dong quite well in our own lives
monkeystyle
Member
At the very least you know where he stands without any confusion. The only real question is what you're going to prioritize more. Based on how your posts have gotten darker about your current situation and more resolute about being non-monogamous it appears you're leaning towards divorce. If so, the best thing of all you can do is to talk to a solicitor about your rights and prospects should you choose to engage in legal proceedings. I wish you and your family the very best of luck, these situations are never easy to work through.
And of course, that wouldn't be right. You deserve to live a fulfilled and authentic life. I worked too hard and too long trying to deny needs of my own that my ex didn't understand and couldn't/wouldn't help me with. And his communication skills were lacking, he was passive aggressive and a gaslighter etc etc. I wasted my late 40s and early 50s trying to make it work, all for naught.
I talked to my excellent counselor about my distress at breaking up the family. It does hurt, big time! to do that. You feel like an institution, almost, with the kids' routines, the house, the pets, the possessions and all the history. Are you going to counseling? I know you were trying to get h to go, but don't know if you're going on your own. A good counselor can help a lot while you make this difficult transition, and be so affirming of your new blossoming, your emergence from the cocoon you lived in til now.
I loved my ex too, still do, in a way. We are friendly and see each other from time to time, doing things with our adult kids and granddaughter. I hope somehow you and your h can be amicable too. If you grow in confidence of your rights as a human being, he may well come to treat you with more respect as well.
As always, love and empathy coming your way!
graviton
New member
This bit is the bit I cannot understand:
Is he so intolerant that he can't fathom that your thoughts on life are yours and worthy of as much respect as his own? I quite agree that if he doesn't want to be in a poly relationship with you, he should be honest and upfront about that. However, not having the natural curiosity and compassion to want to understand the woman you profess to love…well, it is not loving behaviour at all. It seems he's not leaving either of you with many options here.
few Christians have respect for any lifestyle outside of what they believe has been scripted for them in the bible
Journeyofawakening
Member
We talked more yesterday and he said I need to choose whether to stay with him and be faithful to him and monogamous or we separate. And then I got the talk of how devestating it will be to break the family unit. I was trying to explain how if we separate because of this difference then it would be best for the kids if we could be amicable about it and he got very defensive and said don't for one minute think it's all going to be "pally pally", it will be devastating and it'll be painful for the next 60 years. *sigh* I'm frustrated with the expectation of people staying together forever. Sure, it happens but...you know. Take a look around.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
Journey, I encourage you to just let him be separate and have his own experience with all of this. He may very well choose to be devastated and in pain for 60 years, but by no means must that be so for you or your children. The very best thing you can do for your kids is to give them the experience of a role model who is living authentically and happily. Your happiness is in no way dependent on how your husband (and everyone else: family, church people, neighbors, etc.) chooses to look at this. I think that this experience will turn out to be a key turning point in your life and once you get your bearings you will feel more alive and confident than ever before. That is a beautiful treasure you'll be giving your kids and they will in turn know how to better create meaningful lives for themselves.
True and lasting happiness comes from within and emanates outward, calling forth the good in everyone around us. You're changing from living life as a reactor and you're becoming a tone setter. Good leaders have this quality. Good parents have this quality. Happy people have this quality. How other people choose to feel about you is their business and if your husband chooses to be resentful and in pain, then that is his business as well. The more you can see yourself as a strong, confident, positive tone setter (no matter the antics of anyone else) the happier you'll be and the better you'll be able to find your path.
WhatHappened
Active member
I don't think his position has to do with respect. It seems evident that her goal is to get him to agree to her dating and sleeping with other men. He never signed up for this lifestyle. He signed up for a monogamous marriage, which she agreed to give him and has now changed her mind.
And I don't think it has anything to do with Christianity. The vast majority of non-religious people, Muslims, Buddhists, or almost anyone who would not agree to their spouse sleeping with others.
This isn't about people 'not having respect,' or being too stupid to think outside of the so-called 'script,' but about people not being comfortable with it, not having agreed to it, having no personal desire to be in an open marriage, and maybe realizing that opening the doors to sex and romance outside the marriage really does increase the chances of your spouse finding they'd really like to be with someone else instead of you.
To continue to tell Journey that this is all about narrow-minded beliefs of a man who can't think for himself is a red herring. And throwing out red herrings, sending someone down the wrong trail, looking at the wrong reasons, does not help them in the end.
This man doesn't want an open marriage. He doesn't want poly. Most people don't. How does this translate into bashing entire faiths?
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
This man doesn't want an open marriage. He doesn't want poly. Most people don't. How does this translate into bashing entire faiths?
Agree very much with your point. "Christians" encompasses millions upon millions of people and to say that "Christians" are small minded and intolerant is just incorrect. Agree also that it's not necessary to demonize the husband here in order to support Journey in finding a more meaningful life for herself. I get it that some strains of Christianity have a narrower presecription for their members than others, but the spectrum that is "Christian" is vast, just as it is for any religion.
I agree with What Happened. Saying "few Christians" is an awfully broad generalization and religion is only a factor in how the discussion is worded, not the main point.
Journey, your husband sounds very hurt and angry, and understandably so, even if one could wish he would handle it decently. I hope he was not actually making a threat to make sure any split devastates your children's lives. I don't know how he could see a positive relationship ensuing if you are only there due to threats, but as Jane Austen said 'Angry people are not often wise".
Journey, your husband sounds very hurt and angry, and understandably so, even if one could wish he would handle it decently. I hope he was not actually making a threat to make sure any split devastates your children's lives. I don't know how he could see a positive relationship ensuing if you are only there due to threats, but as Jane Austen said 'Angry people are not often wise".
WhatHappened
Active member
I don't take his words (as reported here) as a threat at all, but as a realistic assessment that divorce is rarely a walk in the park, and nobody is going to just going on as if nothing happened. There will be hurt feelings, there will be anger (as you say, justifiably so--he's been presented with a horrible choice that he knows is going to hurt his children), there will be devastation on the part of the kids to see one of their parents move out of the home.
Even amicable divorces have stress and pain, and it's insulting to suggest that somehow he should just be cheerful and happy with seeing his family torn apart so she can sleep with other men--contrary to promises made to him, on which he's based his life's decisions and fathered children who need both their parents.
I think he's being realistic that there is bound to be pain for all involved--not threatening at all.
I disagree. Her h is not being "realistic" in the least. Saying the pain will continue for 60 years is ridiculous. Humans are very adaptable. Her h will find another woman of the same brand of Xtianity as himself, I can almost guarantee it. He will be happy with his new Stepford wife, who will be like a woman of the 1950s.
My children can see how I have blossomed since I split with their dad. My love with my gf is much fuller than it ever was with my ex h. I am more fulfilled, more full of joy. (My ex also has a gf with whom he fell in love a decade ago.) My children do not have to continue to witness my frustration with their father on a daily basis. They get to witness a fuller, deeper, more accepting, inspiring, partnered love. They see me calmer and mellower and more excited about life than I was before. They see me with more self respect than I ever had with their dad, and having more respect towards my confident lover.
Yes, there was a transition. I am just sorry I wasted 10 of their formative years trying to coddle my ex, trying to shape myself in some way to help him feel comfortable, and failing. Because it is not up to me to "make" him comfortable. That is his job.
But yes, right now, Journey's h is "emotionally flooded." He is angry. What is under his anger? Fear, and pain and a bruised ego. Have we learned nothing in the last 100+ years of feminism about the value of ourselves as women, as humans in our own right, as free beings who have a right to live, love and pursue happiness, wherever it takes us?
Men are trained to not show fear, or weakness, or sadness. They are trained to show anger, or some kind of caveman joy (generally when their sports team wins). It is uncomfortable to men to be dragged into viewing their wives as complete and whole human beings.
You can call it bait and switch. Or you can call it normal human growth and change. Everyone changes. EveryTHING changes. Mountains melt. Oceans recede and then ice melts and they flood the landscape. If a mountain can change, rock can be worn down, or thrust upwards, why should organic life forms be required to stay static, and mocked if they dare to grow and go thru metamorphoses?
David Bowie (a male I do not hate) wrote a song about it in the 70's. It's called Changes. Check it out.
David Bowie (a male I do not hate) wrote a song about it in the 70's. It's called Changes. Check it out.
graviton
New member
This is certainly not a bait and switch. You think she planned this from the start? She has changed but finds herself confined in a construct (her marriage) that is unable to adapt to her change. It's simply a sad story. I do get tired of the male bashing that happens on here at times but some of it is deserved while some of it is just callous and misinformed. As far as Christian bashing, well they aren't really known for being flexible and seeing other points of view that are outside of their culture.