The Poly Adventure is Just Beginning

[Leetah]

To be fair, Mabel's choices have not been well thought out either. Offering an open relationship as some kind of test or excuse for you to leave if you were not happy? Getting pregnant while your relationship is in flux and the two of you are communicating poorly? Not the most rational decisions.

Leetah

 

[InfinitePossibility]

It's true. Not a well thought out pregnancy. Had it been me I would have had an abortion. I feel very strongly about children being wanted fully by a stable family. Too damaging for them otherwise.

 

[tronprogram]

Just to be clear. I didn't say I wasn't critical of you. I said that my criticism didn't relate to your employment status or your hobbies or whether or not you get up off your arse and stuff.

My critique is about your ongoing desire to see other women when you are due to become a father.

I apologize for not recognizing the difference.

I just felt like your critique wasn't as informed as it could've been before you really levied words like 'disgusting' in my direction. I have a full life outside this forum that I don't really mention, along with a lot of supportive actions and feelings toward Mabel that go unmentioned and it's not really appropriate to describe those in that way without considering everything. But you'll probably disagree with me on that.

I grew up in a fabulous family. My mum stayed at home to parent us. My dad worked. Neither parent had regular hobbies that we couldn't all do - they didn't have the income or the time. My siblings and I are all living lives that make us happy. We are all confident and free from psychological problems.

I would not make that effort. I have stuff I want to do that makes that sort of commitment impossible. So I don't have children.

I see sometimes the long term impact it has when children grow up with a parent who isn't committed. It isn't nice.

Yes, but you don't know me. You don't know that I won't find a happy medium or even favor giving more time to parenting because I know it's the right thing to do. After the baby arrives, the chances are slim that having a relationship with Penny would be very tenable unless Mabel were to have a change of heart about it and allow me that time to go do that. If she were willing to make that sacrifice for me, then I'd be more than willing to watch the baby for a few hours at home while she goes out to do something on her own. Penny is a LDR, so it would only be 1-2 times per month, tops.

I have little sympathy for men like you who decide when their partner is pregnant that they must have additional romantic relationships in spite of their partner not being willing. I see it as unkind and unethical.

Again, have I actually acted on this yet? I'm only considering it, but not even that seriously anymore. I know that Penny wouldn't go for it and I wouldn't even feel good about it, so at this point, my only hope is Mabel's joyous yes, which is probably a pipe dream. Either that or Mabel and I enter a cohabiting, co-parenting agreement.

 

[tronprogram]

To be fair, Mabel's choices have not been well thought out either. Offering an open relationship as some kind of test or excuse for you to leave if you were not happy? Getting pregnant while your relationship is in flux and the two of you are communicating poorly? Not the most rational decisions.

Leetah

We've been trying to get pregnant for years and doctors had told us we were all but infertile. In the midst of all this, we had no indications that any biological factors had changed until Mabel was already having symptoms.

She's used birth control off and on over the years to regulate her cycle so that we could get pregnant, but it never seemed to get regulated. So she stopped and we let nature take its course, figuring we wouldn't get pregnant anytime soon.

No, we didn't plan it, but we just left the door open for the most part. Of course, when we start needing it not to happen, it does. Go figure.

I have faith in myself that, when push comes to shove, I'm going to do the right thing. I'll be there for Mabel and make sure she's happy and secure, I'll make sure the baby's fine and has me around. It's just that if there are times that I'm absolutely not needed, I'd like to get out of the house some just as I'm sure Mabel would like to (just maybe in different ways).

 

[tronprogram]

It's true. Not a well thought out pregnancy. Had it been me I would have had an abortion. I feel very strongly about children being wanted fully by a stable family. Too damaging for them otherwise.

Geez. This isn't fucking critical at all.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Tron,

I think you are a wonderful honest writer and you have a lot of self insight. I bet you'd write some great plays/movies/television dramas or comedies.

I think people here are being rather harsh on you!

Mabel offered you an open relationship not long ago. It seems like you didn't understand it was just a way to get rid of you. So, barn door opened, and you found your horse, Penny. Now, Mabel has changed her mind, and is trying to close the barn door. But you know what they say about doing that after the horse is already out.

Let's add in, you've always been poly, but didn't have a name for it other than "sin." I think a lot of us, if not most of us here, can relate to that! In our mono culture it can take a lot of digging and work to understand these restless feelings we can have, even if we are quite happy with our partner.

Add in also, your wife's sex drive is much lower than yours. And I am thinking, she is more vanilla than you as well. Now, having worked with mothers and babies all my adult life (lactation specialist/early childhood counselor), I know that fertility issues can take the fun right out of sex. Fucking becomes a timed, planned... chore, not a sexy romantic spontaneous expression of love and lust. It's terrible really! What should be a stress release, good yummy sex, becomes stressful, and there is sadness and frustration at every menstrual period.

So here you are, horse out of barn, bun in the oven, and you know deep down you are not cut out to be mono.

I am surprised at myself for saying this, as I usually come down hard on men who discover they are poly when their wives are pregnant or newly delivered. Child advocate as I am. But I appreciate your brutal honesty with yourself, and I know you are airing wishes and fantasies and what ifs here. That is entirely appropriate. That is part of what this board is all about!

But you are not doing anything "bad," and your thoughts and questions and what if scenarios can't be bad. We aren't the thought police.

More in next post:

 

[Magdlyn]

Just so you don't feel so judged and criticized and ganged up on, I will add briefly my story.

I too have always been poly. I didn't have a word for it other than.... not sin, since I am not Christian. Insead, evil or bad or nasty slut were things I told myself I was. And my ex h told me I was too.

I married him young because that is what one does. And he was better than all the other guys I had dated. I am also bisexual, but settled into a mono hetero marriage.

2 decades passed, 3 kids were born and into their preteens/early teens, and my h, who was always mistrustful of my roaming eye, and love of women, suddenly had the idea, Oh Mags is bi! We could have a sexual 3some! I agreed rather reluctantly, since I was fine with just his acceptance of my nature. But I went for it.

We found our "girl," she seemed into the idea. But lo and behold, she wasn't into me, really, just him. They fell deeply in love.

I was devastated. His NRE and neglect of me and our 3 kids was pretty unbearable. We didn't go on romantic dates anymore, and he was driving hours away to wine and dine the new gf, leaving me home with 3 kids and all our pets for long weekends, no help for me, no more home maintenance on his weekends.

So, I vetoed. And I now know that was wrong of me. I was trying to close the barn doors, but it was too late. I "allowed" them to be "friends," but they were lovers, despite having stopped having sex. They still kept in frequent electronic touch and shared a bed when mutual friends had parties, weddings, etc. I stayed home from those since I knew she'd be there.

So, it took 10 years, lots of counseling, hopeful stretches of romantic dates and frequent sex, but I finally realized he was not providing for my needs. He was deeply resentful of my veto, stopped saying I love you, stopped calling me honey, stopped PDAs, stopped kissing me. We had great sex, but no kissing!

He is passive aggressive. Finally I called it quits.

So! You are doing a great job looking at your very difficult situation and weighing all your options. No options will be pain free. You just need to find the least sucky choice and go with it. Short term pain for a certain period of time is better than decades of mistrust, resentment, fakery, and putting up a false front.

There is no need to make a snap decision. I think the most humane thing, even tho far from perfect, is to tamp down your romantic yearnings, give in to the needs of your baby, and focus on that for now. Sleep deprivation lowers the sex drive anyway! But babies are a joy and you will have a new precious loved one. Girlfriends like Penny will fade into the distance for a while.

But divorce and shared custody may well be in your future. I hear you on the 85% good, 15% bad idea. In my case it was 60% good, 40% bad. But I am so glad we parted ways. Now my life is pretty much 100% good, with a poly partner (we live together) and our other partners we see as well. My ex h and I parted amicably and continue to co-parent more or less successfully, as a team. And my kids now have his gf (they moved in together 6 months after our separation) and my gf as other kind adults in their lives.

 

[Evie]

I know you are airing wishes and fantasies and what ifs here. That is entirely appropriate. That is part of what this board is all about!

But you are not doing anything "bad," and your thoughts and questions and what if scenarios can't be bad. We aren't the thought police.

hear hear.

 

[tronprogram]

Thank you for your sensitive encouragement, Mags. It's very much appreciated.

Right after the ball drops at midnight on New Year's, I always reflect on how my life's progressed in the past year and wonder what the new year will bring and how much differently my life will look in 365 days. Neither the poly nor the pregnancy were on the radar January 1, 2015. The pregnancy seemed half as likely as the poly.

Here I am, thrown into a situation to which I'd be very sensitive due to the desire discrepancy between me and Mabel and my own predisposition for non-monogamy. Mags, you and Evie both nailed the analogies. Sleep and riding a horse fit this perfectly. I'm just trying to navigate this the best I can. I don't necessarily feel it would be wise for us to return to monogamy or even ignore these problems in favor of the baby, because the stress of the baby will just magnify these issues (like polyamory!). Right now, we're just dealing with finding a new place to live and constant nausea. It's a better time to deal with these issues than when a newborn is crying and pooping nonstop.

I don't know if your story's a tale of caution or a prediction about mine.

As for divorce, it's a tough call. Even if Mabel and I believed it was the right call for us, there's a stigma in my family surrounding it and I'd probably be disowned and called selfish for leaving the marriage. Hell, my parents have already all but disowned me for even entertaining an open relationship after Mabel told them about it. My mom will probably get pissed that she won't see her grandbaby and give me even more grief.

Somewhere in all this, I feel like I should be taking the reins and doing what I need to do in order to calm this situation. So far, I've been too afraid to do anything because I'm afraid of upsetting someone over something. I know what I need to do, but I'm letting their fears walk all over me instead of taking action to alleviate them by moving forward. None of them understand what's going on or what needs to happen because their brains are so gummed up with religion that they can't think critically or logically. Meanwhile, nothing gets better, nothing changes, and everyone stands to suffer more.

Geez.

 

[Leetah]

Are you sure that Mabel's various ultimatums and refusal to discuss things is not another attempt to get you to be the one who leaves the relationship? Have you found a therapist who is more available to to help you sort things out better?

Leetah

 

[tronprogram]

Are you sure that Mabel's various ultimatums and refusal to discuss things is not another attempt to get you to be the one who leaves the relationship? Have you found a therapist who is more available to to help you sort things out better?

Leetah

That's a good question. She acts like she wants us to work, though. I mean, she told on me to my mom when I wouldn't give it up with Penny. I don't know why someone desperate to leave would do that. Maybe it was to throw me off and cause a disturbance in her wake after she left?

But yes, I had my first therapy session Thursday night with a poly-friendly therapist. I go back in two weeks.

 

[kdt26417]

I'm with Mags and Evie (and Leetah) on this.

@ tronprogram ... just continue to consider everything carefully, and do the best you can to arrive at an reasonable compromise.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Leetah]

Tron, have you been following Polywanna's two threads? Her experience has been similar to yours in some ways.


I am also kind of curious. Why, if you divorced, would your Mom not get to see your child?

Leetah

 

[tronprogram]

Tron, have you been following Polywanna's two threads? Her experience has been similar to yours in some ways.

I've just seen the one here on the Corner. I'll look up the other one. I've also noted the similarities.

I am also kind of curious. Why, if you divorced, would your Mom not get to see your child?

Well, it's not like she wouldn't see it at all. Just not as much as she would if we were still married, probably, because I wouldn't have custody all the time. But if we cohabited and coparented and just kept up appearances, then she might.

 

[Leetah]

Hmmm, is that an incentive or a disincentive to get divorced, having your mom around all the time?

Leetah

 

[tronprogram]

Hmmm, is that an incentive or a disincentive to get divorced, having your mom around all the time?

Leetah

I'm still good from living at home for 25 years. lol

 

[InfinitePossibility]

I apologize for not recognizing the difference.

I just felt like your critique wasn't as informed as it could've been before you really levied words like 'disgusting' in my direction.

At no point have I sent words like 'disgusting' in your direction. Other board members have. I haven't been one of them.

I am critical of the situation that you and your wife are in. I don't consider it disgusting but that does not mean I approve. I think that what you are doing is a bad idea. Babies and outside romantic relationships are not things to do when marriages are in difficulty. Particularly babies just because children are too vulnerable in my opinion to be brought into situations like that.

If she were willing to make that sacrifice for me, then I'd be more than willing to watch the baby for a few hours at home while she goes out to do something on her own.

Surely you'll want to spend time with your own child on your own regularly? Won't you be encouraging your wife to go out on her own to give you that time and space?

Also - won't your wife already be making a sacrifice to allow you to do your voluntary work and hobbies? Won't she be at home looking after the baby while you do that?

Or does it only count as helping out if she's staying at home to look after the baby while you go out to see another romantic partner?

Maybe it isn't how you meant it but your above statement reads as if you are planning to use your child as leverage to convince your wife to consent to a poly relationship so that she can have some child free spare time.

I understand that you haven't done it but to even be thinking about your child in those terms seems a bit worrying. I'd certainly be worried about myself if I found myself seeing one of my important relationships in that way.

IP

 

[FallenAngelina]

tron, all I can say is - take responsibility for your life. Don't ever blame anyone else for your life looking the way it does. Don't blame your wife, your mom, your upbringing or even internet forum people for not getting you, not understanding, being too religious, too critical or too anything as the reasons you're held back.

You seem very focused on what other people think of you, how your behavior is evaluated and this perspective makes for a very difficult and frustrating road. Turn your thoughts inward, spend time seeking support that honors your inner guidance and you'll have a much more emotionally fruitful experience. You sense that Penny can give you relief from a life filled with things that weigh you down, but the relief she (or any other lover) offers you will always be temporary if you do not have a strong inner life and provide fulfillment on your own to begin with. You are your own guidance system, not other people. Whether you consciously acknowledge it or not, other people always, always, always reflect you. Your world is what you think it is. It's always a reflection, so take how other people treat you as indicators of what is active in you and adjust accordingly. You will never be abe to manage the thoughts of others, but what you bring out in people, how you experience them and how they affect your life is always within your control. That goes for your wife, your mother and every response you get on internet forums.

 

[tronprogram]

I am critical of the situation that you and your wife are in. I don't consider it disgusting but that does not mean I approve. I think that what you are doing is a bad idea. Babies and outside romantic relationships are not things to do when marriages are in difficulty. Particularly babies just because children are too vulnerable in my opinion to be brought into situations like that.

Noted.

Surely you'll want to spend time with your own child on your own regularly? Won't you be encouraging your wife to go out on her own to give you that time and space?

Where are you getting the idea that I'm not going to do these things?

Also - won't your wife already be making a sacrifice to allow you to do your voluntary work and hobbies? Won't she be at home looking after the baby while you do that?

Not necessarily, because it'll be the off-season for my voluntary work. Although, if I get my way, I'll be working for the organization I volunteer for, making better money than I do now.

Maybe it isn't how you meant it but your above statement reads as if you are planning to use your child as leverage to convince your wife to consent to a poly relationship so that she can have some child free spare time.

No, I'm pretty sure you're just reading it that way.

I understand that you haven't done it but to even be thinking about your child in those terms seems a bit worrying. I'd certainly be worried about myself if I found myself seeing one of my important relationships in that way.

Well, I don't, so I'm not worrying about it.

 

[tronprogram]

tron, all I can say is - take responsibility for your life. Don't ever blame anyone else for your life looking the way it does. Don't blame your wife, your mom, your upbringing or even internet forum people for not getting you, not understanding, being too religious, too critical or too anything as the reasons you're held back.

You seem very focused on what other people think of you, how your behavior is evaluated and this perspective makes for a very difficult and frustrating road. Turn your thoughts inward, spend time seeking support that honors your inner guidance and you'll have a much more emotionally fruitful experience. You sense that Penny can give you relief from a life filled with things that weigh you down, but the relief she (or any other lover) offers you will always be temporary if you do not have a strong inner life and provide fulfillment on your own to begin with. You are your own guidance system, not other people. Whether you consciously acknowledge it or not, other people always, always, always reflect you. Your world is what you think it is. It's always a reflection, so take how other people treat you as indicators of what is active in you and adjust accordingly. You will never be abe to manage the thoughts of others, but what you bring out in people, how you experience them and how they affect your life is always within your control. That goes for your wife, your mother and every response you get on internet forums.

Up until now, I've mainly used my love of movies & filmmaking and my personality to build up a strong inner life to get me through and drive me forward.

I've always felt this open relationship and dating Penny was an extension of that, just with romance (and a hearty helping of NRE) added to the mix.

I'm trying to bring the best out of people in this process because it's bringing the best out of me, I feel, but it's their thoughts that stop the best from coming out of them. I guess I feel like if I really were bringing out the best, it would defeat those thoughts. My options seem to be try harder or give up.