Exploring Polyamory instead of Monogamy

Well, I finally had a chat with trip that cleared up some things.

Basically he's in internal crisis mode, similar to what Rocky experienced. He's been anxious about telling me because of the crap I have been dealing in. I told him not to worry I can handle it, what I can't handle is my overactive imagination making up scenarios that aren't real, or worrying he is lying to himself therefore me.

What I can piece together from what he's briefly touched on, and this time it was me saying I didn't want to go into it heavy (4 am UK is not the time to process) is that he has feelings for me, very strong feelings, and it's affecting his relationship at home, and he hasn't caught up. So in order to deal he has shut down with both me and P. So yeah those are the facts, and the fact that he is avoiding whatever it Is he is feeling, with work, and with going numb / not caring. He wasn't like this when I first met him, and apparently he isn't like this with P usually...but he said he doesn't know what to do about it.
I suggested therapy, and taking time out to figure out what it is.

I realised I was being overly harsh with him about my boundaries, that it is ok to feel livid and express it, but I don't think I will need to break up with him because of this. So far he has apologised for the behaviour I have addressed (communication) and now explained why. He feels disconnected from me when we text and can't connect me with texting. So we're going to try out emails, and sky ping while I am here.

I think perhaps he is going through the normal 30 thing, when you turn thirty and reassess your life and what you want and everything in it. This is normal.
Rocky did it, I did(am doing) it. My brother is going through the start of it now that he's 29. 30 is a big deal age group wise and goal and life assessment time.

He said he would work on being truthful with himself so he could be truthful with me, because he isn't sure he is right now. Sounds like it's really hard for him right now.

I am going to root out the causes of my very overly emotional self, and go get a pregnancy test to rule that out. I have gained weight, been moody as fuck, and craved chocolate nonstop all month and my period is late. So. Yeah. Time to see if I am just out of whack hormonally or an uh oh has happened despite coil and condoms.

I spoke also for two hours with Rocky tonight. My life is much more even keel when I have people to talk to regularly who are important to me. I also did two hours with Ivy.

Rocky has a lot of really positive things going on and we chatted for ages. He still is unsure how he wants to label me. But we both enthusiastically reaffirmed and exchanged I love yous, with each other. With or without sex were still rather relationshipy. And that's ok to me. I know we love each other and that's ok.

Ohh Ivy has negotiated with husband to have kids on Mondays so she is going to see me on Mondays when I am back!! I am so freaking excited!!! We are making each other a priority, and it was her idea and I can't wait. She's so awesome :)
 
Ok so emotional self was starting period me. Yay shark week.

At least I can breathe easy knowing I am not pregnant, yay, and that I am just experiencing big hormones this month. This month is really triggery for me. I have experienced a breakup, still grieving my girls, gone to America, and been quasi rejected from family. Not completely ...it's complicated. I am going to reframe it in my mind, my family are busying living their lives and I am busy living mine. They aren't close to me geographically and I am not with them and won't be for the foreseeable future. So I am going to accept this.

I am very excited to return home.

I ran into a person in town who had lived in Ireland the last two years. His name is Ben. I was so excited to talk to him, that I gave him my number, I have never done that with a man like that in a bar, lol. Anyway...won't be the last time. I just wanted a friend and he seemed to think I wanted to date him. Typical mono male thinking...understandable. I didn't get a chance to tell him otherwise, about being poly or anything else. Lol. Poor guy.

Sigh I miss England. My aunt got really mad for giving her number out. What am I five?
She had previously gave me permission to, so why was she suddenly minding now?

Anyway...whatever. I may run into him again while here. Who knows.

Mr date flaked on me twice, and annoyed about that.

Other parts of my life are good. Rocky was there for me. I sobbed at him the other night.

I am still quite a bit annoyed with Trip. We haven't resolved anything because he refuses to deal with it. So. Yeah.

I don't know I just can't type coherently right now I am so damn emotional. I want to just sob and cry and grr, and I want time being alone. I really want to go home.
 
I mentioned recently going to a nearby poly meet up in Ohio, I am hanging out with some of the people tomorrow. Should be fun!

I was thinking a lot about my personal boundaries, of why I put up for less than I give in romantic relationships...not always and a heck of a lot better than I used to. I knew it was some fundamental simple thing I am learning now later in life. Somewhere among all the times I moved, I stopped caring about people fundamentally. I don't mean I stopped loving them, I mean, I stopped thinking it mattered to do all the little caring things that have repercussions when you live somewhere a long time. Mostly because I just thought, it doesn't matter I will move anyway.

So don't get too close, don't get too comfortable, don't retain their last name, birthday, special memory, etc. why does it matter if I will move?

I was reminded of this painful reality in my self like a huge lightbulb went off in my head. I can choose to retain it now. I can choose to keep living where I live. It will be ok. I can get to know these people, let them in, let them close, really get to know them, worry about what I say, what I do, because it does matter...because it's home now. I have a home to go to.

Being here in this small town reminded me of how I used to be, but somewhere around 14/15 I stopped caring and trying because of moving. Which is the exact opposite of my nature (nature nurture issue!) and this apathy carried on for quite a few years until I started to try to nest with kids, which then I tried to get settled and couldn't with my ex husband. So the pattern continued more. But it stops now. It stops here.

I give myself permission to live in one place longer than 4 years. No matter what. If I can't keep my house, I will find somewhere very local. Or at least in London. And I will be able to keep my friends around London. So top priority not moving out of London.

I give my self permission to remember the last names, special dates, gifts, addresses, emails, preferences of the people in my life because they aren't replaceable, and they aren't just passing through. I give myself permission to finally feel settled and safe enough to attach to thee people. Even if they don't stay forever, I give myself permission to allow them to if they want to, if they care enough to, like Rocky and Ivy want to.

I give myself permission to let go of those facts and people in the USA in order to embrace these new people fully and presently, and live in the present moment, not taking any of them for granted.

I forgive myself for being human, and having faults and inadequacies in this area, I was not taught how to be friends with people by my parents, and I am only learning how to do this properly now.

I choose to honour myself by rereading this website from time to time to remember how to treat people, because it's a skill that I lost along the way due to situation, which means it's a skill I can learn again.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-care-and-maintenance-of-friendship/

I give myself permission to let go of negative investment people, people who I can't or won't give to equally, or visa versa. I choose balance in my life now, positive and healthy people. Rocky is one of those, and so is Ivy. I am so happy for both.

I give myself permission to have long term friends, long term commitments, and generally trust myself to stop my nomadic lifestyle and have simplicity and happiness now.
 
So...I might be visiting New York while in USA. Woo goo.

Poly friend today said they would be willing to take me there, and have friends I can crash at! very exciting!!

I had such a good time out, the other people cancelled so it was almost date like with the leader. But hey no problem we talked openly and frankly about what we like and don't, what we want and don't, etc. so we tossed around the idea of a five week fling.

Fun stuff! I went to the movies and generally got out of town .

Found out what was wrong with my aunt. It's her anniversary to her five year separated husband today. I was SO glad I went out. Not on,y did she not tell me, but she was also passive aggressive and grumpy all day yesterday and the day before. Projection much? I could have been there for her if she told me and let me in but she didn't. And I did ask what was wrong.
My aunt is the first person I let in, in a long time as along time friend.

It was so awkward having a poly person at my aunts house. Lol. Both myself and other person were like, wow, do you just feel like we became teenagers again? yeah. Strange lol.

Ah well, it's nice that I have someone who cares, I know she does it out of love, but I certainly do have a lot of very strong women in my family, which means that I can and will be one of those too. ;)
 
I woke up yesterday morning to a plane ticket from my mother to go out west, So I am headed out today. I picked the day I come back to east coast on the 19th.

I am shocked and surprised the family changed their mind about wanting to see me. So. That's interesting. Only two weeks and I will have a license now at least, and I have a lot booked in already. So I will stay busy that's for sure.

I am cautiously optimistic. And off I go to make amends and try to keep cool as a cucumber and have a good time.
 
So I am sitting at my brothers apartment. Very nice. :)

I just got in to west city, and it's gorgeous. I am sitting here feeling very strange indeed.

He has lovely people in his life. Wonderful people. I adore his girlfriend, a very good choice for him, and her. They are good together. And I am happy for him. :) he found his "one".

For me, I am off to high school city. I call it that because I lived there as a teenager.

It's really strange being I. His house. He has bits and pieces of me here that were confiscated when I moved away apparently people have been through my stuff. Lol. I found my first edition copy of green mansions from grandma. And my art history book from first time I went to uni (I dropped out back then).

There was also a few pictures of Monet in gold frames that I had in my home with the ex husband in Seattle that I picked up at a goodwill when I made up my bathroom at the time. So strange to see bits and pieces of my life scattered about and reassembled in someone else's.

But then such is the life of a nomad. And what use am I getting out of it anyway?

I am staying very present and very calm.
There is a vase that my friend Leda bought for my on when She got married. Teddy bear Ray brother has had since a kid. Something shooting star assimilated later. Eldest and Brisinnger but not the third book....some of mine. A Mexican blanket on the wall that mom bought when brother and I were 10 and 11.... So many memories. I saw rich and I wanted to cry. It's been too long. Too long. I had no idea how much I missed them.

And now I see the rest of the family tomorrow. More Rae Morris needed.
 
So I had a huge two hour chat with Trip right before I left to come to west coast.

Wow. We broke through some serious walls. And it was so much better. SO much better. I had been contemplating the relationship longevity and if I could give what he needed, and he could give what I needed. But he can, and he is.

And we are laughing again and crying together about mutual a stuff. He shared with me about his fears and a poem he wrote. We talked about what makes us happy. The ocean makes me happy, I come alive there.

The quietness of a forest walk makes me happy. He likes boating, and car boot sales, trips over seas and travel.

I can't wait to see him again. We talk tonight and although I have a different type of love for him, it is not less than Rocky. It simply takes a different shape. And that's ok, it has frustration of understanding with words, but emotional understand implicitly. It has hugs that make me feel safe and welcome. We're working through the different cultural and word usage misunderstanding. It is ok.

Rocky and I spoke yesterday and were really cheesy and romantic with each other. He is missing me, and he was worried I wouldn't come back when I showed him where I was staying and what it looked like. Perhaps because it's so breathtaking. And it is. But I choose him. I choose London. I know other vistas, but home is home.

I just don't feel right in the world unless I am right with both of them, they both lifted me up yesterday after I came back to high school city and the house I used to live in. I was an emotional wreck. And they both cheered me up. It was so hard to not go down the what if path, of having stayed with my girls...they wouldn't be with their dad. However, if I had stayed I wouldn't have an education I am now working on.

Life goes on. I had one momentary slip up.

It was so many things to process. It was seeing my brother 100 pounds lighter. It was seeing my step dad after the ravages of cancer.

This alone, this one, seeing his eyes and the haunted look of having faced deaths jaws. That made me want to cry for him, but I didn't instead I hugged him, and gave him a gift far more precious. I told him I won't treat him like porcelain, and that I love him. Then I went on treating him the same way I always have. He probably needed that more than anything else.

It was also the changes of seeing grandma older and on breathing machine and really taking in she might not be here much longer.

It was seeing items I had left behind five years ago of my kids stuff, that my parents had kept. It was seeing all my memories form childhood collide with my current reality.

The worst one? Folded on the end of the bed I was to sleep on was my daughters baby blanket that my previous love made for shooting star. That small monkey blanket tore me up. I started sobbing and unable to keep it in and I curled up around that blanket and cried myself to sleep.

I woke up this morning and found my brother had been broken up with by his girlfriend.

I think it was because she saw the way he treated me. We had an argument yesterday because he hated I was a feminist. I told him femisim isn't just for women, it's for men too. It's so men don't keep getting told they have to man up and deal with shit. But he lost it at me, started shouting...I haven't been shouted at in a long long time...especially by a man. We rehashed history. I stopped the conversation, but I can see it really shook up the girlfriend. And understandably so, my brother hadn't seen me for five years, and chose to play a computer game, then have an argument, in front of his girlfriend at me. What was she supposed to think? He behaved appallingly during those moments. He even put his fist in the wall instead of try to fix the problem.

So, yeah his behaviour would have made me break up with him if I were her. I certainly don't put up with that behaviour now in my relationships. And I stood up for myself with my brother. In the end he calmed down and we had a good day yesterday we did a workout together. For us, fighting and resolving is as natural as breathing. It has always been our dynamic. He doesn't know any better. And I rarely get that angry with anyone else. I am working on not getting that angry this time. I told him in the end all I wanted was to have understanding, not for either one of us to be right. I really am taking the high road.

I had similar conversations with my mother yesterday during the meal. My family are not known for timing and thinking about when to talk about things. Her husband almost died this summer, and she's nagging and complaining about him driving. And he's standing up for himself and I am telling her, to just calm down. Be kind. Bossing isn't going to help.

My mother didn't know how to be healthy and I don't know why not because grandma is very loving and caring. Everything she touches becomes better and is left better than it was. My mother on the other hand tries to draw me in intense emotional conversations which I curtail now, she is an emotional vampire.

Mom On The subject of my brother breaking up this morning:

I feel so bad for (brothers name), she clearly didn't love him enough, and I wonder how it happened (pointed look at me like I know stuff which I do but I am not going to tell her.) he's going to be so hurt...

Me: it's a numbers game mom sometimes this stuff happens, (brothers name) doesn't have a lot of dating experience, and just like his ex gf, we're all learning. Does it suck? Yes. Is it painful, yes. Will he get through it? Yes.

I dropped conversation, she picks it up again.
I tell her point blank my boundary is that I am not going to discuss what was said between me and him, or what was said between his ex and him.
 
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All I have to say today is people are so precious.

Especially the ones in which it's the hardest to reach understanding with. Family, friends, lovers, each individual is so precious.
 
There's so much I want to write about.

So this one will be a long one :)

I had the most amazing lucid dream a week ago today. I want to write it down before I forget, because it was about my guys and me.

I dreamed I was a winged woman in a virtual world. That I chose to go into this place and chose to have wings. Only I didn't know how to fly. The first place I was at was an adobe style building city, all in Browns with big open skies and heaving with all sorts of people/creatures your brain can imagine.

This world operated the same way as the real world in that you had to use currency to pay for things, build up real relationships and learn skills the hard way...by practice.

So I had to learn to fly. I had the most beautiful offwhite wings, that tapered to charcoal grey speckles, like rain water drops along the feathers, getting larger to the end of the largest feathers were grey.

It was really interesting in this dream that I could feel the wings on my back, as real as my own hands or feet...I had to move my new extra muscles back there, and practice. I was, ironically, terrified of heights (like I am in real life) so it was really comical trying to learn by running off the ground as the rules of gravity, and laws of physics still applied. So I went to the first floor of a building, then second, then eventually after months of efforts (yes my dream spanned months!) I was able to launch off the top of buildings, and very awkwardly and painfully from running leaps and hops off the ground.

I took up work delivering objects and helping people in places they couldn't get out of...like kids who climbed places they shouldn't. I was generally liked, but eventually got bored of the city and wanted to travel. So I did.

I flew over visitas mountains. I flew over deserts. I flew into canyons, and over oceans...eventually I flew into a forest..with trees three times as large as the redwoods.

Here I met a giant, the giant was a cross between Rocky and Trip. In that because it's a dream, each time I looked back it was on or the other...it wasn't both at the same time, but each person seperately flickering in and out..like my mind couldn't decide on which one...but also didn't make two giants.

At this point I realised I had control over me, but not over my surroundings yet I knew it was a dream.

The giant spoke tome, and said, I messed up making my character in this world and made him 70 feet high instead of 7!

I explained to him that I could help, I was flying in front of his face and reached my small hand out to him and touched his forehead. At my touch he shrunk to the 7 foot size.

The connection between us cackled and we both sat talking, then, starts kissing...

One thing led to another and we started having sex, I started to get disorientated because the entire time he keeps flickering between both men.

I lift him up into the air, which wasn't easy but apparently I got a similar adrenaline rush with dream sex as real life haha. And as I lifted him into the air, we climbed higher and higher, and as we we're both at the peak of sex, wings burst out his back!

It was so shocking and surprising I immediately took him to the ground and wrapped him in part of my clothing, tearing it off my legs. He was covered in blood from the wings suddenly erupting from his back and it was really scary, and I didn't really know what more to do, plus I knew I was waking up and I said to him, I am so sorry I cannot do more. And I wrapped him in my wings, cried, and held him until I woke up sadly.

it was the most intense dream I have had in a long long time!
 
As far as what else has been going on,

Goodness so much.

I have met up with my old friend from highschool City, that we became friends five years ago. I adore her she's really awesome! She was so curious about the poly lifestyle and asked a lot of questions. We really reconnectd and I really enjoyed it. :)

Then I have been aggressively working on my weight loss and also my education here, so postings have been short.

On the people front:

Rocky called me the other night, we spoke for quite awhile. We're skyping again soon and he really missed me, and was really cheesy and cute. It's an ebb and flow and right now I think he's more into me than I am into him because we do this dance back and forth. However I am kinda tired of the ambiguity and am looking for something a little more stable romantically. I feel I am moving into acceptance instead of denial. I have started to think of him in past tense ...relationship wise. This time away was definitely needed. But he mentioned kissing me when I come back, and on the phone I was enthusiastic for it, but I do not miss sex with him. I have closed myself off a little to him romantically because of how hurt inside I am from his back and forth. I want someone more available. Maybe this will change, but ...maybe it won't. On one hand I have opened myself more to him than anyone else in my entire life, my whole soul was laid bare before him. On the other hand twice now he has said he doesn't want me. Sigh. I don't know what to do. I love him but feel myself pulling away because of his lack of decisiveness and confusion. I don't want to be a back up plan.

Right now that is Trip ..so that brings me to him and me.
Things are good, I wouldn't say it's hugely intense or earth shattering..but it's calm and quiet and reassuring. I feel peaceful with him, and he is kind and gentle to me, we talked about a lot of things and we are talking again on Sunday. I am definitely physically attracted to him, and emotionally...intellectually is a bit of a different matter because although we challenge each other, understanding each other at times can be exhausting ...there's a lot of confusion in word usage and what the other means and in the styles of our communication.
Communication between us is like a steam train, it takes a while to get going, but when it does its magical.
It feels like we both have icy walls that need to drop around each other, and every time we talk the frost of the morning melts and we remind each other we can be safe with each other.

Trip said he didn't expect to be intense with each conversation, I said why not? The look he gave me was priceless. I said I generally expect to be focused on completely and not divided between all the other responsibilities when he is with me. Lol.

So now on to Mr, casual, poly fling...that is not happening. I gave it a lot of thought and quite a few red flags popped up regarding trip to NYC and his communication style and what he wanted. He basically after one date wanted to be partners...um NO.

There is another person I a, speaking to will be mentioned here soon, but family is here now so I need to go!!
 
So much more to update.

My brother is back with his gf. I helped be their mediation and my brother opened up so much! And she is very curious about poly. We talked about it a bit privately. I think although my brother is very suited to her, she has a lot of learning and growing to do as a person and lots of exploring to look into with her personality and sexuality at 20 years old. I really hope she gives herself the opportunity to do that.

On a weird note, she comes from polygamous family, with her father being married to two of her mother's sisters / her aunts. Whoa. To each their own. I wonder how this upbringing influenced her life and sexual exploration now? I know what the idea of polygamy did for me....sent me right into polyamory and women's rights. Lol.

No offence to those who willingly and happily are polygamous, but doing it with spiritual religious manipulation...that my soul wouldn't go to heaven on its own without a man and to do that requires me to be forced into polygamy? No thanks.

So, I am thinking the best approach with her is healthy boundaries. It just occurred to me that perhaps I am not off limits subconsciously, though I will give her the benefit of the doubt,..I am having a strange few weeks in family department and alternate sexuality...the only reason I think this is because my step great uncle asked me the weirdest thing before I left eat coast.

My great aunts husband asked me if I had had sex with my great aunt after finding out I was bisexual. Then when I did a double take and said, " pardon? " he rephrased the question and both my aunt and I heard him say, "have you slept with your step sister?" We both almost smacked him in the face. And maybe we should have. We gave him the most disgusting and whithering look, then we made him pay for dinner and ignored him the rest of the evening. Then he had the gall to be offended by our iciness. UGH.

The last time I had a weird question like that was in Seattle at 19 with a repressed Mormon boy who confessed to me sleeping with a cat.

Seriously, I couldn't make this shit up.

Utah and highschool City is like an alternate universe. And to think everyone here thinks London is weird. Lol.

So anyway. It's been a weird week on explaining that poly doesn't mean Incest. Poly does not mean I discrimintely sleep with anyone. Poly is not polygamy. Poly is not permission to ask me ubsurd questions that are extremely weird and private in public settings.

This is what I get for posting a message on FB about being poly. Lol.

So between my brothers gf telling us her life story and sharing my brothers and mine...it's been a lot of exploring the WHat the fuckery in the world...and going, thank god we have google, good boundaries, and common sense. Thank god we're not our parents.
 
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Trip and I are struggling with communication right now. He rarely texts, rarely emails, is too busy to talk on phone and when we do schedule a night to talk it's 50/50 if he makes it at all.

And I have been giving him space to sort out his schedule and time, it's been HIM coming to me saying I want to talk/Skype and then backing out. This makes me really angry, but also confused. Why set your own self up for failure? I will message him maybe once a day, and I hear back from him on average once every other day or every third day. There's no excuse for not being able to type a few quick words on text other than sad face or smiley face or *snuggles*.

His communication style may be a deal breaker for me.
Rocky has broken up with me and he's in more regular text, phone and Skype contact (of his own volition not mine) than Trip. And I get it that both are different. But I dealt with the relationship problem with trip on its own, and I said I feel like an after thought. That you remember me then go...oh let's talk to Star...

He said he still cares, I told him so..ignoring me is how you show it?
We're talking once a week at the moment, (if that) and I prefer daily. But maybe thats not the shape this relationship takes. But I don't really want to do secondary relationships or casual sexual ones.

So I am figuring out my version of polyamory. I want first primary partner, someone I can live with, someone I can have fun with, someone we progress together with, and I sort of have that with Rocky. I mean we are committed to having each other in each other's lives for the rest of our lives, which is a big deal. :)

So things with Rocky. I told him my boundary of no sex. He got kinda emotional, and asked if we could still cuddle and I give him head rubs. Sigh that guy. I know some people don't need labels, but I am not one of those. I have tried non labels but I get so anxious about if that person is going to stick around internally it just helps to know where I stand with that person.

I love rocky, and I know he loves me, he told me yesterday on Skype, but it's not enough to change my mind about sex. I told him he needs to rebuild my trust from stringing me along emotionally with his back and forth. That until he figures out what he wants with me I am going to set my own boundaries.

I wish he were the one picking me up from the airport though. Well I say that now only because I am annoyed at Trip. A few days ago it was Trip I was imagining holding and hugging. We had such a tender moment before I left, that I can't reconcile that person who held me, with the man who is ignoring me now.

Anyway.
On to new okc person. I have been talking to a man in Germany. He is fascinating. I haven't thought of a nickname yet, but, we are skyping for the first time tomorrow. And we're planning on meeting up in January. We have been sending a lot of emails back and forth that are really long winded, and I have enjoyed his down to earth attitude, and also his energy optimism, and intelligence.

Very exciting stuff going on!

I also have spoken to Ivy every week I have been here, and were making regular Monday visits with each other, so we have a standing girly day...almost like dating? We did admit to liking each other and there is definitely chemistry. But we're taking things slow and building up a solid friendship first. I do find her dazzling and beautiful, inside and out. She has a heart of gold.
 
starlight1 said:
I will message him maybe once a day, and I hear back from him on average once every other day or every third day. There's no excuse . . .

He said he still cares, I told him so..ignoring me is how you show it?

We're talking once a week at the moment, (if that) and I prefer daily. But maybe thats not the shape this relationship takes. But I don't really want to do secondary relationships or casual sexual ones.
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It always surprises and fascinates me whenever someone here talks about needing daily contact in their relationships. To me, answering a text two or three days later is rather normal. I'd never expect an immediate reply to a text (if I wanted immediacy, I'd make a phone call) and would be puzzled if a lover of mine felt ignored, less important, or like a secondary just because I text every other day or so. I wouldn't see it as ignoring them, nor that they don't mean a great deal to me. I may be thinking all day, every day, about someone dear to me, but only want to text when my head is in the right space, when I feel I have something interesting to say, or when I feel relaxed. Not being in touch every day certainly wouldn't mean the person isn't really important to me! Of course I care about them even if I'm not in touch - that, to me, is a given! If I wasn't really up for a conversation, there's no way I would send just a smiley because I wouldn't want to disappoint that person when they write back by telling them "oh sorry, can't really text right now."

I am just sharing this to give you my perspective. Maybe Trip is like me in that way, and maybe it's a "Love Language" kind of thing. It would feel oppressive to me if I were expected to be in contact every day because I would want to engage in fun, cool, or meaningful conversations rather than fluff, and I am not always in the right frame of mind for a conversation.

Hope that helps in some way.
 
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nycindie said:
It always surprises and fascinates me whenever someone here talks about needing daily contact in their relationships. To me, answering a text two or three days later is rather normal. I'd never expect an immediate reply to a text (if I wanted immediacy, I'd make a phone call) and would be puzzled if a lover of mine felt ignored, less important, or like a secondary just because I text every other day or so. I wouldn't see it as ignoring them, nor that they don't mean a great deal to me. I may be thinking all day, every day, about someone dear to me, but only want to text when my head is in the right space, when I feel I have something interesting to say, or when I feel relaxed. Not being in touch every day certainly wouldn't mean the person isn't really important to me! Of course I care about them even if I'm not in touch - that, to me, is a given! If I wasn't really up for a conversation, there's no way I would send just a smiley because I wouldn't want to disappoint that person when they write back by telling them "oh sorry, can't really text right now."

I am just sharing this to give you my perspective. Maybe Trip is like me in that way, and maybe it's a "Love Language" kind of thing. It would feel oppressive to me if I were expected to be in contact every day because I would want to engage in fun, cool, or meaningful conversations rather than fluff, and I am not always in the right frame of mind for a conversation.

Hope that helps in some way.
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Oh wow this really helped. I realised when you said this I don't expect this from Rocky or Ivy, or anyone else really. So why do I expect it from Trip? It's because I *cant* call him by phone, he will answer but say he's busy and not call back... AND he doesn't call or initiate any sort of conversation with me like at all...
So this isn't an issue of him texting me daily...because I don't really care if someone does that or not. I care that he's not in touch at all except maybe once a week and only if I completely ignore him. Whereas Rocky and Ivy WANT to get in touch. They call, email, txt, FB, etc....also I feel I can call them anytime and they will hear me or get back in touch when they can. AND if they can't get ahold of me in those ways they show up at my door. Lol.

This is not the same with Trip.

So it's not about smothering him or wanting any of these people to be in daily contact...I guess it's more that the person who is supposed to be my boyfriend hardly ever initiates contact or calls me, and doesn't answer or tells me to call later, because he's doing...whatever. I feel seriously upset by this.

Thank you so much NYcindie...this helped so much! It was like a lightbulb went off. :)
 
starlight1 said:
Oh wow this really helped. I realised when you said this I don't expect this from Rocky or Ivy, or anyone else really. So why do I expect it from Trip? It's because I *cant* call him by phone, he will answer but say he's busy and not call back... AND he doesn't call or initiate any sort of conversation with me like at all...
So this isn't an issue of him texting me daily...because I don't really care if someone does that or not. I care that he's not in touch at all except maybe once a week and only if I completely ignore him. Whereas Rocky and Ivy WANT to get in touch.
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I am glad you found it helpful. But there's something else. See, you seem to be interpreting his not calling as often as you'd like or expect, to mean that he doesn't want to be in touch. I am saying that is not necessarily the case! He may want to be in touch with you very much indeed - but, if he's like me, whatever contact he makes needs to feel right. The right time, the right mood, the right mentality, the right things to say, what-have-you.

Another thing that often happens to me when I am thinking about someone I care for, is that certain things will come to mind that I would like to tell them, but I will think things like, "oh, they don't want to hear from me," or "I shouldn't be bothering him, he's probably busy." Because I never want to be a nuisance. So, I'll make a mental note to mention it "next time."


My primary Love Languages are Physical Touch and Quality Time, btw.
 
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nycindie said:
I am glad you found it helpful. But there's something else. See, you seem to be interpreting his not calling as often as you'd like or expect, to mean that he doesn't want to be in touch. I am saying that is not necessarily the case! He may want to be in touch with you very much indeed - but, if he's like me, whatever contact he makes needs to feel right. The right time, the right mood, the right mentality, the right things to say, what-have-you.

Another thing that often happens to me when I am thinking about someone I care for, is that certain things will come to mind that I would like to tell them, but I will think things like, "oh, they don't want to hear from me," or "I shouldn't be bothering him, he's probably busy." Because I never want to be a nuisance. So, I'll make a mental note to mention it "next time."


My primary Love Languages are Physical Touch and Quality Time, btw.
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This conversation is useful to me, because I am extroverted and a very chatty person online. I talk to my sister on chat every morning and sometimes throughout the day, since our jobs allow us that freedom

My ex Ginger also loved the morning check in chat, and would often update a bit on how his day was going in the afternoon or evening. I liked that about him.

Right now, I've got 2 male lovers and one female, and none of them love to text or email or chat! Drives me kinda nuts. It makes me feel distance from them, and a little more shyness than I'd like to feel when we do get together.

However, my newest interest, Hippie-- we have been chatting about a week, and will meet in a few days. He seems to love to chat before or after work, and we are having these nice long interesting conversations on a number of subjects. Does he care about me more than the others? Definitely not, but I feel more *cared for.* Plus, it is speeding along the getting to know you phase before we even meet.

My present lovers are all very touchy feely sexual and focus on me completely when they are here, so maybe they have the same love languages as you, Cindie. My love languages are: ALL of them!
 
nycindie said:
I am glad you found it helpful. But there's something else. See, you seem to be interpreting his not calling as often as you'd like or expect, to mean that he doesn't want to be in touch. I am saying that is not necessarily the case! He may want to be in touch with you very much indeed - but, if he's like me, whatever contact he makes needs to feel right. The right time, the right mood, the right mentality, the right things to say, what-have-you.

Another thing that often happens to me when I am thinking about someone I care for, is that certain things will come to mind that I would like to tell them, but I will think things like, "oh, they don't want to hear from me," or "I shouldn't be bothering him, he's probably busy." Because I never want to be a nuisance. So, I'll make a mental note to mention it "next time."


My primary Love Languages are Physical Touch and Quality Time, btw.
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I looked up love languages last night. I am split pretty evenly between three. Physical touch, quality time and words of affirmation.

With Trip I think I boiled down the top ones to, physical touch or quality time.
So we're pretty similar that way. Many times we can sit in silence with each other enjoying a moment of whatever. I like that. But I am really extroverted lately. So I guess I am missing the QT and PT, so I am trying to compensate with text...but he told me he feels a disconnect with text, and prefers email.

So...yeah I finally got what your saying, NYCindie, and I reiterated to him today. He had told me basically the same thing a week ago bout him not answering didn't mean he liked me less. I just hadn't got it until you said it. I am not sure where this idea comes from, or why I hold onto to, so it's a useless one that will be discarded from here on out.

I will send him a long winded email. He loves poems so I will write him one, and I can't wait to hug him. Less than a week and a half!

Ok so I spoke to the German man on Skype today, unfortunately I don't think that will go anywhere, I just didn't feel any spark. Our writing to each other was much more interesting, and I wasn't attracted to him physically although in and of himself he is a beauitful man, the chemistry just wasn't there for me.

I also spoke to another Londoner transplant today on Skype. He's monogamous but poly curious and poly friendly. He had a lot of questions about it. We have been Flirty flirty texting, and talked on the phone a few times. We're planning on meeting up when I get back. I am of two minds with him, so we'll see where it goes. The Skype session was really nice and we talked easily for an hour. I am a bit ageist and had to apologise for it, he just comes close to that invisible line in my head that makes him closer to my kids ages than my own,,,which may not be a problem when I have a decade more ahead, but right now makes me internally squidgy. This is because of the childhood experiences, so I don't like viewing someone I am with as a kid, but I am realising more and more you can be a biological age and be a kid in your head regardless. So...yeah.
He's 24 ;)

I liked how our conversation flowed and our world views are similar. I think however he wants a primary partner without poly, and I hope he doesn't think I am going to give it up if I am involved with him. I find him incredibly attractive and interesting, and there was definite chemistry even on Skype, be interesting to meet in person! I also like how cheesy he is. He came across a bit strong so I told him it's cool to just cool it a bit, it's not an interview. I think I can learn a lot and grow with him. We're both looking for nesting partners, which is new for me to be into someone on all levels, intellectually emotional spark, and physical chemistry...very rare indeed.
He's also the first man to text more than me, usually I initiate things with people and it's nice to have someone who equally intitiates but isn't controlling. :)
 
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Magdlyn said:
This conversation is useful to me, because I am extroverted and a very chatty person online. I talk to my sister on chat every morning and sometimes throughout the day, since our jobs allow us that freedom

My ex Ginger also loved the morning check in chat, and would often update a bit on how his day was going in the afternoon or evening. I liked that about him.

Right now, I've got 2 male lovers and one female, and none of them love to text or email or chat! Drives me kinda nuts. It makes me feel distance from them, and a little more shyness than I'd like to feel when we do get together.

However, my newest interest, Hippie-- we have been chatting about a week, and will meet in a few days. He seems to love to chat before or after work, and we are having these nice long interesting conversations on a number of subjects. Does he care about me more than the others? Definitely not, but I feel more *cared for.* Plus, it is speeding along the getting to know you phase before we even meet.

My present lovers are all very touchy feely sexual and focus on me completely when they are here, so maybe they have the same love languages as you, Cindie. My love languages are: ALL of them!
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Lol Magdalyn about your love languages being all of them. I nearly spat my water on the screen. :)

I also feel more cared for when I receive regular texts. I also feel more cared for when a lover keeps their word and commitment. That's the other issue with trip right now is committing to a day or time to talk then backing out last minute after I have cleared my schedule.

That's so cute you talk to your sister every day. I hope my brother and I start doing that now that we have reconnected :)

Well maybe the other people are more available in other formats? Phone calls or Skype, or email or FB?
 
My dream poly situation is to live with two men, while remaining independent myself. Such as having my career and job in place. I also wouldn't mind having a third female partner, who also has a nesting partner.

I am feeling rather nesty right now so looking for female roommate so I don't make emotionally charged decisions. I bought myself a stuffed bunny when I felt the urge to have another kid, and temporarily a cat (until I found out people around me were allergic). So...I think the more I foster independence in myself the more I can fight this nesty urge. I want to examine it and make sure it's coming from a place of want rationally and Not a place of hormonal decision making or neediness or lack of controlling my own life.

So here's how I judge this, if I were independent financially and had no housing concerns right now, would I want to live with a man?

That's the brutal question that deserves a brutal answer. I think I need to get those things in place and see if I still want to have a man (or two) or not that lives with me, because in my head and reality are probably vastly different and right now I gotta say I am in love with my independence.

I am truly enjoying sleeping in my own bed, leaving stocks of dishes to do whenever, because I can, learning what really makes me happy..which ironically is doing the dishes at night so it's nice and tidy in the morning...but doing it because I want to...not because anyone else needs me to, or wants me to, or nags me to,,,...I love the freedom of having one man come over one night, one man anothe night and never the two shall meet. Not that meeting is bad, I just am not a sexual threesome person at the moment, mostly because I don't think either the men I am with would be in to that personally. Wow rambley moment. Lol. Ok so back to main point...

Life is generally not that clear cut...in making plans, so I will try thinking about this more. Right now the answer is yes and no.

Yes because I would love to wake up with someone and have some one consistent in my life. No because I hate sharing a bed full time. And it'd have to be the right person with my gamut of triggers etc.

Plus right now, I don't want anyone to tell me who I can or can't sleep with based on being in a partnership. I really don't want that. And if I lived with rocky or someone else and it was "our bed" it would be something that would be a problem. I don't know. I am just ruminating things because I have a tendency to lose myself in NRE and relationships at times, and my wants and desires change to please that person. I am working hard on this not happening in ALL my relationships, friends, family, lovers, etc.

Perhaps I need a spread sheet of pros and cons. ;)

But my ideal in my head is two men who respect their and mine autonomy and we each have their own room. I swap between their rooms and have my own sanctuary too. That's my ideal. But I am open to other configurations too. So it's not my way or high way for sure.
 
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Two people got in touch with me the other day when I had wondered if they had done the fade thing.
One was Leo, fro in the summer, and he's moving away so we're going to meet up to say goodbye but still remain friends. I love leaving doors open. ;) I am also glad I didn't get involved with him as I was really into him, until he did the weird communication controlling thing. Ah that's why one dates, to figure out if personalities click and work together.

The other was Lily, very surprisingly she's back in poly world, yay for her. So I invited her to my thanksgiving thing, and we'll see how that pans out! She said she had pulled back because she felt she couldn't give me what I wanted, which was a primary partner or close female friendship, I have that now in Ivy and so I feel maybe she might feel less pressure about the whole thing perhaps?

Also, now that I spoke to Trip from my new shiny perspective of he still loves me when I not talkig to me our communication has improved immensely. I still think besides my own issues, there are other underlying issues...such as the fact that I realised I expected him to txt more because he specifically takes time out with me to talk to P, and text her often...so I don't get why he doesn't with me? THIS is why I feel less than because I have seen how often he has his phone on him, how often he txt a and calls P, and other people, so it doesn't add up why he doesn't with me.

I would buy he's not a great texter if I hadn't seen him do it in front of me so often.

So to me this is more a..P doesn't like me thing, and he can't be authentically himself , or has different boundaries for him, or couple privledge. So. Again makes me feel less than. But I am at least less worried he doesn't care. And I have slotted him in my brain as the primary I cannot have that level of nests commitment with, that's ok. I could not happily live with P. I have her on my phone now, and we haven't talked at all, since September. Not once while I have been gone. We just have nothing to talk about nothing in common except Trip. I feel no jealousy towards her or anger, just a general unease I could never shake.

So best just to simplify and keep separate.

I think I will give the OKC person a new name that I have been talking to on text and Skype obsessively lately. Pretty much any time we can fit in communications we do. It's freaking awesome. ;) I think I will call him, Bond, because he wears suits all day and really likes dressing up. Plus he's outgoing, adventurous, into travel and fitness, self made man, handsome and smart. Does he have faults? Yes ...have I found them yet...not yet. Lol. But I am sure I will ferret them out soon enough and decide is they are things I can live with or not.
For example, an a type personality is fine, as long as he isn't going to try to clip my wings. He's going to have to know going in that who I sleep with is my choice. I am not sure he understands that yet, so I will need to sit down and explain that very clearly.

I also spoke to rocky today, I told him I want him to dig deep about why he is waffling and sending confusing messages. Not for me t for himself. And I said yes it would be easy for me to want this for myself, and yes I am biased. But I am thinking now more along the lines of anyone else he gets involved with. Which right now is no one. He's been asked on dates, and turned a lot of people down. Basically because he says they aren't me. And then I go,..so what's your issue with me? Are you just afraid of commitment? Is it the kids thing? A you thing? I suspect it is his issues...how does one go from, "you are a hell yes star" to "you are only a hell yes as a friend." In one week?

I told him while he can't decide what he is to me, that I will make the choice for him. Until he decides where I am in in relation to him I will not be having sex with him and I will need more time between relationship ending and downgrading before I can cuddle and be physically intimate (with out sex), and it not hurt the hell out of me. I told him I don't want to reward him for bad behaviour on stringing me along. And that I have found someone I think I can gel with in the same level as him but actually wants to move things foreward with me, and I want to grab that opportunity with both hands, and that although I have a lot of love to give, I don't have unlimited amounts of time, resources or energy.

He agreed to what I said, appologising again for leading me on, and said he admired that I as staying strong and firm in my boundaries. He is coming over with sister on thanksgiving to talk one on one and resolve this issue he has once and for all. For me it's not about if he is primary or not, it's about knowing where I stand with him instead of constantly having the rug pulled out from under my feet. I have been patient loving and understanding for so long now, and I want to be treated with the same respect.

So I don't need closure, I am not cool with him being a waffle head. And since I am not, I am taking control of me. And I understand I risk losing him romantically by choosing Mr. Bond. But his waffling has already caused him to lose me in increments from March until now. I won't be led by the nose or stand around waiting for him to decide.

Sometimes you learn the hard way, and when you don't make decisions other people will make them for you. I am making mine for me and not letting Trip (and P's decisions by proxy) or Rocky's indecisiveness make my romantic decisions for me. Now that I know I am ready and want a primary I will find it.

I think form this point on I will refer to "primary" as nesting partner, (or some thing else when I come up with it.) because I just can't seem to find the right word. Primary means I would consider other people secondary and I don't want that.

Another thing that's bothering me and I need clarity on. Rocky really likes to be in control of his relationships. He does his with out realising...for example he didn't want me to meet his sister because he was worried it would all fall to pieces, and now his sister wants to come to my thanksgiving. Lol. Well suck on that rocky, she likes me just like I knew she would, I knew we would click, everything he told me about her, well she's awesome!
So yeah

And he told me today he's going to America next summer with friends with out even asking me if I want to come. Bear in mind these friends are people I have met, hung out with numerous times, and even went to weddings of. And I am just not invited. Ugh. He is so controlling! To him it's just, keep Star separate because these people don't accept or approve of her, and I was some secret. They do know about me now. But he just has no desire to intermingle us. Fine whatever. It's fine to have your own set of friends, but I always at least offer to rocky about my own friends (unless girly night) so it's like I am excluded again. It's very annoying and also mean, because he also promised to go to America with me. And now that slot has been filled by other people, and other people he won't even allow me to hang out with. But hey if they don't like this awesomeness that is me, they can fuck off, but it's not that, they DID like me, it's that HE doesn't approve of me with them!!! Or..whateveR. I don't know. I am just so flipping angry about this one. I am so glad we're done dating. Seriously, I don't want to be enmeshed in his life, I just want to be considered. The fact these people are people important to him and before he proudly shows me off and now he keeps me separate intentionally is just down right rude. This is a convultued mess of things of why I am angry on this one.

First there's the telling me his life instead of discussing with me and making plans with me. He does this a lot. Did this in relationship as well as out.
Just like deciding to break up with me, he doesn't chose stuff WITH me, he chooses then informs me. Erm. I don't think so. Not cool.

The there is the whole "keep me secret from friends." And make it look like I was trying to keep him from his friends when actually it was the other way around,,,! All his friends were like...where have you been rocky? Omg she is so not good for you because you never saw us. ACTUALLY he just chose to hang out with me and not inform them. That was on him not me.

Then his best friend found out by accident and is planning trip with him to America but again rocky doesn't include me even though we had previous arrangements to go to America together.r instead he asks if I will be in high school city, and if he can come visit me. Uh. Why would he want to visit me now?! I wanted to go cross country and visit my family. Now I am like..why do I want you to visit my family now? I don't know. I think I need time. I need time to heal. I am still pretty sad and angry. I want to try and keep doors open without always hoping and pining for something he doesn't want to give me.

I have been so understanding and loving and I am tired of being walked on.

I think too many things have happens and he has a long way to go to rebuild my trust.
 
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