Fun and Frolic With Long-Term Love

[WarMan]

I am feeling very depressed right now and down about the idea, all together. I resent Monkey's opinion about me, mattering at all. I dislike the idea of my being poly being discussed by another group of disapproving people. I am unhappy that the situation could cause WarMan to become even more distant from his extended family and children. Sigh.

A couple of things here:

Monkey's opinion of you doesn't matter. She's my friend, and I listen to her advice, but I don't often take it when it's concerned with dating. Even if that WERE the case, Monkey's opinion of you is mostly positive, and she thinks you're good for me. She is only concerned that this whole "coming out of the closet" thing might distance me from my children. She knows that would upset me, and so is concerned. She's not telling me to avoid discussing it because of YOU, she's doing it because my family is intolerant of non-conformity, and they have some level of influence and control over my kids.

For what it's worth, I don't think it will cause my children to distance themselves from me.

That being said, My policy is the truth. I'm either going to say nothing at all to them (Because frankly, my love life is nothing to do with them) or I'm going to give them the whole truth about us. Right now I'm leaning towards the latter, but I'm going to play it by ear.

I feel like a terrible person who will cause nothing but problems for WarMan.

What? Don't be silly. I've been at some remove from my family for a very long time now. Their approval means almost nothing to me, or the lack thereof. Even my children, will have to either accept me or not. They will be adults soon enough, and they will either accept me in spite of their upbringing or they won't. Either way, I'm not going to make decisions based on that. I want very much for my children to love and accept me, but ultimately that is their choice. I'm already a terrible sinner in the eyes of their church, between the divorce, and the drinking of booze and coffee.

Basically, when it comes to acceptance from my family? That ship has SAILED and I'm not all that hurt by it.

Be calm my Corazón. Whatever I say or don't say to my family won't change how I feel about you one iota.

 

[Bluebird]

<3

Oh! Today was horrid and stressful. I had at least one nightmare about aliens last night that I remember, but PunkRock says I had several. Then I woke up and one of the first emails I read today was one from a Biology class kid's mom, flipping out harshly - yet politely - about me teaching her son about how people are evolved from star dust, which is expressly against their religion. So I had to do damage control and explain that in fact, her son had asked me specifically if people were made of star dust, because a friend told him that. And I explained that hydrogen and helium go through nuclear fusion inside stars, into heavier elements. When stars explode, those heavier elements are seeded throughout the universe. Now those elements are in people, and yes, you, as well as, the plants and in the plastic keychain you bought while on vacation.

She sent me a follow up email saying she didn't realize he had asked me and initiated the conversation, and apologizing for the upset.

Sigh. I actually don't mention evolution, religion OR the reproductive system in my Biology classes because the kids are all different ages and stages of maturity and have different religious affiliations. I like to be inclusive, and collect payments.

Anyway, that was stressful. Then I went downstairs and it smelled like rotten fish. My son had dumped leftover shrimp in the garbage can last night and just left it. I had to open up every door and turn on fans, light candles...ugh. I was supposed to be having a student over for a make-up session but thankfully we ended up doing it online and no one had to smell the stank but me. Prior to the science class I went to lunch with DarkKnight and we worked on a grocery list while eating, so when we got back and I finished teaching, I ordered groceries.
I felt really pressed for time all morning and afternoon, but couldn't remember why.

After the grocery shopping, I finally looked at my calendar and realized that I had an appointment at 2:30 with my son with a benefits counselor, and it was actually 2:30 right then. So, I had to race downtown and thankfully it's only a few miles drive. However, it ended up being a really terrible meeting. It was supposed to be about switching my son over to the organization's program - I would no longer be his rep payee on his social security disability account when we move out of state. However, as it turns out, he isn't eligible to receive this service. He also isn't eligible for assisted living services. This wasn't at all what I expected, but apparently his disability isn't categorized under the section they need it to be, to be able to help. He can get employment help, as he has been, but that's all he qualifies for.

FUCK. I will write more later but this is shitty with a capital FuckYou.

I spent the evening with my husbands - we had dinner together at Quiznos - and we talked about it a bit. Then we went home and WarMan came over. We all watched Back to the Future II together and now I am back at WarMan's apartment. He leaves tomorrow for his NM trip and I miss him already.

 

[FallenAngelina]

...We all watched Back to the Future II together

So did I!

 

[Magdlyn]

So did I!

Oh, that's why I saw people on my FB talking about watching it! Had no idea what the deal was.

 

[Bluebird]

Yes, yesterday was the date that Marty and Doc went Back to the Future. So we are now all living in the past.

***


I wish I could be writing about how the rest of my night was terrific, but I can't. I was still pretty stressed about things when we left my house, and I shared a lot of my feelings with WarMan as we drove to his place. He was fairly quiet again, but I was rather talkative, so it didn't seem strange. However, when we arrived at his place and got snuggled into bed, he seemed to want to launch into a fight almost right away.

Earlier in the day he had sent me a message - liiiiiick! This had thrown me off a bit, because exchanging "licks" is something I do with PunkRock. So I told him this, and that I preferred to keep it that way. Well, this put him out of sorts. He angrily asked me if he wasn't allowed to fuck me any more either, because that's something I also do with PunkRock. I told him to not be deliberately obtuse, because obviously not. I explained that there were just a few things that I consider special and that this thing was one of them. He was not happy, but I told him I felt like he was all the time saying he was too similar to my husbands and that there was nothing different about him, and that if I DIDN'T carve out a few specials, then he'd be unhappy about that.

We talked about nicknames too, which I consider sort of important - I call DarkKnight a specific thing, and PunkRock has always been a specific thing, and I would never call WarMan either of those names. WarMan was upset about this too, and told me that he reuses nicknames all the time. This wounded me - he always calls me his corazon, which is Spanish for "heart." I have always felt that was special, but apparently not. He told me it wasn't unique to me at all and that it's very common for guys to call their wives or girlfriends it. So yeah, that was kind of shitty.

Eventually he backed off and said that fine, he'd just deal with not sending me licks. Things turned playful and we had great sex, as always. I was really feeling blissful afterward, and calm about the stuff we had discussed earlier. WarMan, apparently, was not.

About 15? minutes after, the cuddles stopped and WarMan started telling me that he was unhappy and not liking the amount of time he was being given in our relationship. That he still feels like it isn't enough, and that when compared to the beginning of my relationships with DarkKnight and PunkRock, there is no way he will ever be able to become as close and as important as they are to me - due to the lack of this time. I was flabbergasted.

I told him that there really wasn't any other time left for me to give him. The new schedule has me with him Sunday mornings, Monday date night, Wednesday sleepovers, all day Thursday hang out while he works, Thursday game night, and then Saturday all day and a sleepover. I need time for my other guys, and my children, and my friends and hobbies.

He said he understood, but that it wasn't enough to foster a strong relationship. That it was a problem because he was number 3. When I was dating DarkKnight, it was just the two of us, so we could focus on each other. And when I was dating PunkRock, he was unemployed so I had a ton of time to focus on him. But as the third guy coming into my life, it just wasn't what he thinks we need. He doesn't feel like I treat him as he is in third place, but that the time constraints that are inherent because he is third, are causing him to feel like he can't connect.

Every time we get back together, he feels like it takes a while for us to be reconnected. We don't launch into sex right away - we need to discuss things and be together for a bit. Hearing this made me REALLY upset, because I'm sorry but I am expecting a lot more than just instant sex in our relationship. We're dating and I am not just a booty call. But he says that this is distressing to him and that he wishes we didn't need any reconnection time. I told him I didn't feel like I needed that time, myself, that I didn't feel disconnected because we hadn't seen each other in a day. Plus we text all the time we aren't together, and talk on the phone once in a while.

After a while he apologized and said he didn't want a solution, he just wanted an acknowledgement that he had a legitimate complaint and that our relationship was starting at a disadvantage - that it wasn't like DarkKnight or PunkRock's. I said of course, ALL of my relationships were different. This isn't what he wanted to hear and so I told him I didn't really think I wanted to talk any more - it was around 2 am and it wasn't productive anymore. He told me that I didn't have a choice, because this was it - he was leaving tomorrow for New Mexico.

So we had the same circular discussion for what seemed like another two hours. He told me he loved me and he wanted this to work. I asked him if he thought it was going to, but he hemmed and hawed and wouldn't answer straight. I told him that I really felt like at this point, with everything he was saying, he'd be happier in a mono relationship. He said again that it wasn't poly that he couldn't handle, but that being third is what he is struggling with. He told me again that he loved me, that he wants things to work. I told him I wasn't sure any more, and he blew up and yelled at me that "MAYBE I'M JUST AN ASSHOLE WHO CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!"

I didn't say anything at all to him after that. Eventually he started snoring and I laid there for a long time, wondering why he was so determined to fight with me right before leaving for a week. It was very disconcerting and hurtful. Never have I had a relationship with this much unhappiness and unrest in my partner, and I am not sure there is a solution on my end. I completely understand - I hope - that he is jealous of the time that my husbands have with me because they live with me. We have talked about cohabitating when my son moves out this next year. WarMan says now that unless he gets more time with me, he doesn't know if he'll be ready to say he is comfortable with moving in, because he won't have connected with me enough prior to that.

I feel connected. Yes, I wish we had more time together, but I wish that with all of my guys. I don't feel like there is a lack in my life, but apparently he does. So I don't know - either we will be broken up when he finally wakes up because he is not happy or I need to really take this time apart to think about whether or not he is ever going to be happy with being with me. Just because he wants to love me doesn't mean he should. I am uncertain if he is capable of deciding that I am toxic and that this relationship structure is something he can't live with. So that means he will force me to break up with him, even though I am so very happy to have him in my life. I have bent over backwards to include him and love him as a primary, but he isn't happy, and at this point I just don't know how to make him feel good.

I love him so very much, but sometimes that isn't enough. His unhappiness is not something I want to be responsible for creating, fostering or growing.

 

[Magdlyn]

Gosh, BB, when you lay out all the days and hours you spend with WarMan every week, it sounds like a lot! Especially since you've only been together a couple of months. I had a year of being with Ginger with only one date day a week, from late afternoon til the following late morning. And when I met miss pixi, I only saw her 3 days a week for 4 years, (sometimes a bit more, sometimes less), until we finally moved in together.

I am hearing that WarMan is very very envious of your other guys, and wants a woman he can see every freeking day. I can't help but wonder at his neediness. After all, he's had a very limited one day a week, non sexual relationship with Monkey for years. Now he wants ALL your time?

It's good he loves you that much, he's in NRE, yada yada. But I am sorry he's being so sulky and pissy about it, to the point of pressuring you to stay up all night going in circles about it just before he's going on a trip.

 

[breathemusic]

I'm sorry you guys are going through a rough time. I know that you changed up the schedule to try and get time in with all your guys each day, which meant breaking up day stuff and sleep-overs, but it seems like maybe the conversation should be about quality time vs. quantity? If one night is a sleepover, but almost no awake time, and another day is all during work when you guys are both focused on other things, and another night is a group night.... it seems like you get to see each other often during the week, but that only a small portion of that is time where you both actually get to focus on each other?

I'm personally the type who would rather see someone once or twice a week if I got the day with them vs more often but only a few hours here and there. But everyone has a different preference. It's a matter of what works for you 2.

It seems like lately you guys have both been having some stress and frustrations that just build and make it difficult to have a non-angry calm conversation. I hope that you guys are able to work through it, because it's been clear from the start that you both had an immediate awesome connection. But frustrations can make it hard to keep a level head. Maybe you both need to take a few deep breaths and agree to talk out a few things in quiet voices (sort of forces you stay calmer if you need to focus on being quite, and forces the other person to really listen? I dunno, it's sort of a thought that just popped into my head when reading your post). Or for that matter, maybe just agree to not talk about serious stuff for a bit and try to focus on having a few fun dates and re-capturing that connection.

I'm rooting for you guys!

 

[Dagferi]

Seeing your schedule with Warman written out he gets a lot of time with you. Right now I only get to see Murf every other weekend and one week day. I had to pick up a second full time job. Every other week I work 6 days a week. Murf has picked up extra hours to try to pay off the truck.

 

[PinkPig]

I'm sorry, Bluebird That sounds stressful and unproductive. Like you, I'm wondering if he's (unconsciously) trying to get you to end things? You are very accommodating with your time and your love. My guess is that it really isn't so much the quantity of time as it is mismatch of relationship styles. My impression is that WarMan prefers a more enmeshed, mono relationship and anything less just feels too dilute to him.

 

[starlight1]

I have only been dating Trip. Few months, and Rocky almost two years and I almost never see either of them more than twice a week, and sleepovers happen about once a month with Trio and once a week with Rocky...this fluctuates because of his wonky schedule.

I don't understand the neediness here, and to me it seems filled with insecurity. I have done this before when I was afraid I as going to lose everything with Rocky, I held on so tight I pushed him away. Especially when I lost my girls. Him choosing you and possibly loosing his family (kids) could be a subconscious factor as its so close to the date he leaves. As far as starting arguments in the middle of the night, I would get up and leave. Past midnight is not a time to process.

 

[Leetah]

I suppose by now you know how the relationship stands this morning but I just wonder if the impending trip to see his family has WarMan tense, and having been in a sort of limbo-ish relationship with Monkey all this time has made him fearful of finding himself in such a situation again?

I'm sorry you two are having a rough time.
Leetah

 

[WhatToDo]

Just from what you've told us here it appears to me that WarMan is mono. I had the same struggles when I was in a poly relationship. I identify as mono but I tried to go against that and it worked for a little while but that was with me suppressing those thoughts that WarMan expressed last night. It's going to be a hard road for him.

 

[YouAreHere]

Hi BB,
I guess I see things from a slightly different perspective from many folks here on the board, so maybe that different perspective will help?

I do understand a bit of what WarMan is feeling, since I've felt it myself. It seems like he wants what I did/do in my relationship with Chops: reassurance that there's a future in a "partnery" sort of way. How it looks on paper isn't always how it feels, though, and for me personally, the time the two of you have together wouldn't be enough for me to sustain a relationship. At least, not one of the form that I'm looking for.

Chops and I worked out a 50/50 schedule, between his home with Xena and his home with me. We've had discussions in the past where I'd been worried about potential "game-changers" coming in to his life, where he'd want to carve out some more time with them, and I had to be honest with myself and with him that less than half-time wouldn't be enough for me.

Is it needy? (shrug)
Maybe some think so, but for me it's necessary to sustain a partnership. Even now, when our schedule gets perturbed (oh, I am NOT looking forward to the holiday crazies again), I feel similarly to WarMan - disconnected from Chops, frazzled, feeling distant until we do *something* to break through that and start recharging my relationship battery again.

Chops feels the disconnect, but not the way I do. It's difficult to bridge the gap sometimes.

I understand the "starting from behind the pack" feeling WarMan is struggling with. I felt like I needed to catch up or I'd be left behind, and it led to some pretty competitive stuff on my part, and a big blowup once the "fake it to make it" stopped working.

My point, though, is not that it's hopeless, but that it can be done.
Chops and I have been together over 4 years now, and we seem to be doing OK.

I did, however, have to figure out my own needs and boundaries, including time needed with Chops. Chops knows that if that "game-changer" comes along, and he wants to spend more time with them, then I may have to bow out, for my own emotional health (although I know I'd bend over backwards to try to make it work until it was clear that it wouldn't... probably to my own detriment, but I know it's my M.O.). WarMan seems to still be in the "figuring all this shit out" phase of the relationship, which for us was topsy-turvy as hell.

But we're still here.

Sometimes, that Mono/Poly gap is a bit bigger in spots than others. It just takes time to cross. Take a breath, accept as many hugs as you can get, and see if you can reconnect and talk it to death as much as you can after he gets back.

Hugs, BB...

 

[Dagferi]

To avoid making Murf feel like WarMan does and at times vice versa when Murf gets the lion share of my time is I do not share what is going on in my other t relationships.

Sharing info about that is special in my other relationships tends to fuel jealousy.

 

[PinkPig]

Hi BB,
Chops and I worked out a 50/50 schedule, between his home with Xena and his home with me. We've had discussions in the past where I'd been worried about potential "game-changers" coming in to his life, where he'd want to carve out some more time with them, and I had to be honest with myself and with him that less than half-time wouldn't be enough for me.

Is it needy? (shrug)

Yes, it all depends on the relationship and people in it. I don't think this is needy. It's the minimum I would need to feel connected to Blue at this time, too. The first several months we dated I saw him an average of 2-3 times/week with maybe one overnight a month? That would NOT work for me now.

Is it a mono/poly thing? Maybe partly. I'm probably closer on the mono end than poly because more than 2 partners feels impossible and 2 partners feels draining....But, it felt invigorating when we were in a closed triad with Snow so I do think I have poly tendencies, just not the time/energy for it now. I've given up on dating anyone other than Blue until my teens are gone. I tried recently but was receiving complaints about my lack of available time and jealousies over my commitment to Blue....very similar to WarMan's complaints only our relationship was even shorter duration and intensity.

So, yes, mono/poly factors in but it's not everything. DarkKnight is apparently mono, too, but he seems to have a very full life apart with work and plays/social scene.

Bluebird, I really hope things work out the way you want them to. ((Hugs))

 

[YouAreHere]

I did, however, have to figure out my own needs and boundaries, including time needed with Chops. Chops knows that if that "game-changer" comes along, and he wants to spend more time with them, then I may have to bow out, for my own emotional health (although I know I'd bend over backwards to try to make it work until it was clear that it wouldn't... probably to my own detriment, but I know it's my M.O.). WarMan seems to still be in the "figuring all this shit out" phase of the relationship, which for us was topsy-turvy as hell.

I hate quoting myself...

One thing that I didn't mention, though, that may also be impacting things is that the only relationship model I'd had to work with before my relationship with Chops *was* a mono model, complete with relationship escalator. When you don't have a model that works in the circumstances you have, it's not always easy to even *realize* what boundaries you need to figure out, or needs/desires you should ask for. You've never had to figure them out before, because they were always part of the model.

I had many, maaaaany, "but that's just common sense - how can you not see things the same way?!" moments with Chops. Sometimes I still do. Old habits die hard.

Anyway, that "still figuring shit out" phase can take a while. It takes time to figure out what the painting is a picture of before you can start deciding you want more green over here.

 

[Bluebird]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the concern and support, ideas and input. Truly, I do.

It's interesting, after I wrote my entry and showered this morning, WarMan had read my entry and he was pretty down about it. He was worried everyone would judge him harshly and tell me to leave him. I was fairly certain that wouldn't be the case, so I am happy to see I was correct. What advice that has been given, I am really thinking things through today, when I have moments of clarity.

I am a zombie right now - half awake and barely functioning.

I dropped WarMan off at the airport - BWI - around 1:15 pm and his flight is in the air now. I miss him already. I pick him up on Tuesday around 8 pm. I hope his trip is drama free.

We had more conversation this morning and in the car on the drive to Baltimore. It is very clear he loves me very much, and I feel much better about things now that it is another day. This is all new to me - I am not used to these sorts of heated discussions. Honestly, in my 10 years of marriage to DarkKnight, we've had maybe - maybe - 4 upset talks similar to this, and even then, they aren't so similar. It feels unsettling and unfamiliar. I just don't operate that way. WarMan and I seem to be speaking a different language when we have something emotional to impart to the other.

Onward and upward. I'm cuddled up on the couch with PunkRock laying his head on my thigh, and our fat cat Gus purring loudly on top of PunkRock. Life is crazy but I'm comforted.

 

[YouAreHere]

It feels unsettling and unfamiliar. I just don't operate that way. WarMan and I seem to be speaking a different language when we have something emotional to impart to the other.

I hear you.
Chops and I are incredibly in sync with many, many things (to the point of talking about something the moment the other person starts thinking about that same thing). And with this stuff, we can be completely on opposite ends of the spectrum. The things that twig me sometimes don't even register to him, and we both have those moments of "but how do you not understaaaaand?"

Very unsettling to feel so connected on one level and so out of sync on another. It sounds like you're good about talking it over, though. Gotta look at those successes, after all.

Onward and upward. I'm cuddled up on the couch with PunkRock laying his head on my thigh, and our fat cat Gus purring loudly on top of PunkRock. Life is crazy but I'm comforted.

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better. Somehow, cats just know when to help out.

Here's hoping WarMan feels a bit better about things as well. Hugs to all, and chin scratches for Gus.

 

[Bluebird]

Quick update - WarMan told his kids and it didn't go as expected. Apparently they thought him dating someone was great news! He messaged me that they were happy and chill and cool with the poly stuff as well. They didn't have any questions yet, but he showed him photos of me, and everything went better than I thought it would. I told him to be sure to check in again tomorrow, as my youngest had more questions on the second day, than the first. Whoo hoo! Hopefully things stay good. I am sure talking to his extended family is not going to go as well, but WarMan's main concern has been his kids' reactions.

 

[starlight1]

Quick update - WarMan told his kids and it didn't go as expected. Apparently they thought him dating someone was great news! He messaged me that they were happy and chill and cool with the poly stuff as well. They didn't have any questions yet, but he showed him photos of me, and everything went better than I thought they would. I told him to be sure to check in again tomorrow, as my youngest had more questions on the second day, than the first. Whoo hoo! Hopefully things stay good. I am sure talking to his extended family is not going to go as well, but WarMan's main concern has been his kids' reactions.

This is such good news I am so happy for warman! What a relief that must be to know his kids love and accept him regardless. Amazing