Everything changing at the same time: overwhelming!

Lupa

New member
Hi everyone! I regret to say I use a lot of words, so bear with me here :).

I'm Lupa, a 31-year old female, together now with M (32y male) for 13 years. He was my highschool sweetheart and my first real love. I met L (32y male) 5 years ago at evening school and we fell in love. M and I were pretty open but never discussed the possibility of PA. But here I was, wanting to start a new relationship with another man. It was very threatening for him, but he allowed me the chance to pursue it since he knew it was something I really wanted. We moved very slow the first year, for example I first kissed L after about 6 months. Even though I often behaved very impatient, afterwards I'm glad we took our time to figure out how this could work for everyone. In the last year we seemed to have come to an arrangement that kept everyone happy: I slept over at L once a month, we saw each other every week (on Saturday when M has to work) and regularly texted and called each other. I wouldn't say L and M are the best of friends, but they get along.

All this time, L didn't have another partner, though he said from the beginning of our relationship that he identified as non-monogamous and would welcome a 'primary' partner of his own. I tried to support him in this, which mostly meant keeping some distance so that he could have time to go looking for that someone. This was hard because L has a tendency to claim a lot of attention from me; he wanted to see me very often, called me all the time, even if he didn't have anything to say, and displayed general neediness ("please come over, I'm so alone"). I didn't mind as long as I was in love, but after a while I found it annoying. I also had some trouble dealing with his addiction to various substances; mainly for this reason I kept my distance from him and because of all the drama (relapses from L, regular comments from M that he tolerated my relationship but didn't really like it and probably never would), I started thinking if maybe it would be better if we parted ways. My relationship with L brought me a lot of joy and self-discovery but for months now it has been more work than joy. I started seeing him in a negative way, made sarcastic and snide comments, we got into fights, the whole nine yards.

And then, two Saturdays ago, we had a good talk. I told L that I had trouble letting him back in, trusting him, and that if we were to turn this thing around we would really have to work at it. I was also quite insecure about where I stood with him now that he was dating casually with a lot of people and told him I needed to know he still wanted to make time for me, especially now we were going through a rough patch. After all, he never juggled two relationships before, he just said he wanted to. He felt the same way, we had a really good talk and we felt closer to each other than we did in months. He mentioned he had dated someone (X, via Tinder) a few days ago and that it really clicked, she could be a potential partner. I was happy for him and wished him luck on his date later that evening.

On Monday we had planned to have a coffee date in the afternoon. It was the last day of my vacation and he had finished an exam. That morning I got the text "hey sweetie, I'm gonna be honest, X wants to meet me this afternoon so I'll have to postpone our date to a time when I'm less busy, won't be today." I was so overwhelmed with emotions I didn't know what to respond right away. I just felt that at that second, he did exactly what I asked him not to do: he was more interested in seeing someone he knew for a couple of days than to reassure me that I was still important to him by keeping our date. I lashed out angrily ("thanks, now I know where I stand") and he explained that he was in love and had to 'strike while the iron is hot'.

I was devastated all last week, emotions a soggy mess, sobbing every night, totally insecure and fearful. I'll admit that my conversations with L and M weren't very rational and that I said some stupid things. It didn't help my fear that from that day (now a week), X has been with L every night, slept over at his place every night (or so I think), so all of a sudden, I got practically no more texts and absolutely no more calls or emails. If he texted me, he tried to reassure me, told me he loved me and wanted to make this work, but it just seemed like empty words to me. Of course he'd like to do that, but I just can't see how he can make time for us when now he has X in his life, who demands almost all of his free time, thus leaving no time for us. While we are actually in a delicate place right now. In comparison, M and I had a solid base, we were together for 8 years before L came in my life.

We talked for a few hours on Saturday (luckily both M and X have to work on Saturday, otherwise I don't know if it would have been possible). He was able to finally give me some information face-to-face about who X was and what she thought of the fact that L is also involved in a relationship with me. He told me she was very jealous and insecure and immediately placed boundaries: L cannot touch me in a sexual way anymore, including kissing, basically we can only act as friends would. I totally understood her reaction although it was hard to hear (I highly value my physical relationship with L), after all we did the same for M. L wants us all to become friends and in his mind this could all be resolved in a matter of weeks. He also mentioned she would be moving in with him asap.

But I just don't know. Doesn't this just look like a recipe for disaster? Why should I invest in making this work with X in the mix if I was doubting whether to continue the relationship before all this happened? I feel like I'm being dragged into negotiating before I even know what I want for myself.

My first goal now is trying to work out whether I want to continue my relationship with L.

My second is to talk to X. I told L that I really want to see her alone as I don't want to see them together right now (I'm funny that way, I don't mind him having a girlfriend, but I don't want to see them acting lovey-dovey and he basically told me that if I were to see them she would be all over him, I suppose because of her jealousy she wants to 'claim' him), I don't know what he's saying to her about me, in what words, and how she reacts. But I don't feel up to that now. This is all new to me, though I've had two relationships for the past five years, it's the first time I've ever had to share my partner (M isn't interested in multiple relationships and L has never had anything serious while we were together).

I don't really know why I'm posting this here, I suppose I could use any advice, feedback, or comments if you have them. All perspectives are welcome. Sorry for the long read!
 
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Let me get this straight. He JUST met X, and he's already taking her orders about how he can and can't interact with you, and he's planning to move her in with him???

Um. I might come back when I have something less bitchy to say. Meanwhile, I'll just leave it at I think he's moving WAY too fast, and you're only going to end up being hurt more. As you said, he's shown you where you stand with him. Is that where you're willing to be?
 
I am sorry you struggle.

Let me lift up a few things...

  • L has a tendency to claim a lot of attention from me; he wanted to see me very often, called me all the time, even if he didn't have anything to say, and displayed general neediness ("please come over, I'm so alone").
  • after a while I found it annoying.
  • I also had some trouble dealing with his addiction to various substances; mainly for this reason I kept my distance from him and because of all the drama (relapses from L, regular comments from M that he tolerated my relationship but didn't really like it and probably never would)
  • I started thinking if maybe it would be better if we parted ways. My relationship with L brought me a lot of joy and self-discovery but for months now it has been more work than joy.
  • I started seeing him in a negative way, made sarcastic and snide comments, we got into fights, the whole nine yards.
  • Why should I invest in making this work with X in the mix if I was doubting whether to continue the relationship before all this happened?
  • I feel like I'm being dragged into negotiating before I even know what I want for myself.

To me it sounds like you don't really want to be with L any more.

Especially not if he's rushing with this X person he just met and now wants to move in with her. It's crazy fast.

So... since you wanted to get off the bus anyway even before X? Could step off and let L go. Guard against getting caught up in his "whirlwind whoosh" thing.

Galagirl
 
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Ok, If i'm reading this correct L is looking for a primary relationship, which you can not supply. Thing's seem rocky, and he find's X. This is someone who he is interested in, and is interested in him as a primary. X immediately places demand's over his other relationships, although he has known X a short while, he agrees.
I would leave thing's alone for now, It may hurt in the short run, but pursuing someone who committed to someone else at your expense can lead to disaster. Even if L thinks everything can work out as friend's, there's a lot of emotion involved to think it will happen within a few weeks. In addition you really don't seem to want to deal with X. So maybe it's best you don't for now.
In time, once your head is in a better place, you can revisit the thought of your friendship with him. And who knows, if their relationship is burning that hot that fast, he may be more avalible by then.
 
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Run.

It doesn't sound like X is even poly. I predict nothing but drama.

Is L really poly? Why would he pick someone who expects mono if he is poly.

Perhaps he will come back after learning this lesson.
 
Would you be willing to use nicknames for the people in your life, instead of initials? It's difficult to follow with just letters. You should be able to edit your post, assuming it's less than 24 hours (I believe!).
 
Would you be willing to use nicknames for the people in your life, instead of initials? It's difficult to follow with just letters. You should be able to edit your post, assuming it's less than 24 hours (I believe!).
No problem, I'll try and adapt it now, but I'll leave the initials the same, otherwise the comments below make no more sense ;-)

*edit* too late, I can't change it anymore! But for clarity:
I am Lupa.
Michael (not his real name) is my life partner of 13 years.
Leo is my boyfriend of (almost) 5 years.
Xena is his brand new primary.

Hope this helps :)
 
Let me get this straight. He JUST met X, and he's already taking her orders about how he can and can't interact with you, and he's planning to move her in with him???

Um. I might come back when I have something less bitchy to say. Meanwhile, I'll just leave it at I think he's moving WAY too fast, and you're only going to end up being hurt more. As you said, he's shown you where you stand with him. Is that where you're willing to be?
KC43, you made me smile with your candid reply. Thank you for that.

I'll just make a little nuance here:
Leo isn't exactly taking Xena's orders, he told her himself that he is willing to give up a whole lot to make it work with a new primary. I understand that this is something he has wanted for a long time so he's more inclined to give in just to make it work. We also talked about it in the last few years, if anything comes up with a new partner and she needs us to slow down until she can accept that Leo is not sexually and emotionally monogamous, that we will do that. Therefore I wasn't surprised when he said this is what would have to be done to make her comfortable in the situation. The only thing he wouldn't be willing to give up is to stop seeing me, stop communicating with me, and not be 'allowed' to have feelings for me.
So she doesn't forbid him from seeing me, but I don't know if she does that because he set a 'hard limit' there (and she's really not okay with it but doesn't feel like she has a choice) or because it's really okay for her if we keep seeing each other in private.
 
....now he has X in his life, who demands almost all of his free time, thus leaving no time for us. .....L cannot touch me in a sexual way anymore, including kissing, basically we can only act as friends would. I totally understood her reaction ...... He also mentioned she would be moving in with him asap.

Just be clear that these are all choice that Leo is making, not what Xena is foisting upon you and him. Leo is choosing to spend his free time with her, choosing to not be sexual with you, choosing to invite her to move in. There is no woman who can "demand" any of this without the partner's willingness to go along with it. Sounds like neither of these people are poly or have intentions of living a poly life, which is valid, but you you should be honest with yourself that these are monogamous thinking folks.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

To me it sounds like you don't really want to be with L any more.

Especially not if he's rushing with this X person he just met and now wants to move in with her. It's crazy fast.

So... since you wanted to get off the bus anyway even before X? Could step off and let L go. Guard against getting caught up in his "whirlwind whoosh" thing.

Galagirl
Thank you GalaGirl, it doesn't look that nice when you put it all together, and you might be right. Then we come to another issue that I've been struggling with: I have never broken up with someone and try to avoid it at all costs. I don't really know why (also something I wish to figure out when I see my therapist again, it's been a long time), but I just feel like I can't do that, leave someone, after I gave my heart to them and promised I would do everything I can to stay in their lives.
But you do make a fair point and I am very grateful for your input.
 
Ok, If i'm reading this correct L is looking for a primary relationship, which you can not supply. Thing's seem rocky, and he find's X. This is someone who he is interested in, and is interested in him as a primary. X immediately places demand's over his other relationships, although he has known X a short while, he agrees.
I would leave thing's alone for now, It may hurt in the short run, but pursuing someone who committed to someone else at your expense can lead to disaster. Even if L thinks everything can work out as friend's, there's a lot of emotion involved to think it will happen within a few weeks. In addition you really don't seem to want to deal with X. So maybe it's best you don't for now.
In time, once your head is in a better place, you can revisit the thought of your friendship with him. And who knows, if their relationship is burning that hot that fast, he may be more avalible by then.
That is a really levelheaded response and I appreciate the 'calm' that emanates from it. Thank you!
I don't plan on making important decisions while I'm very emotional, I know that fear or insecurity isn't the best counselor. I just like to know where I stand and now I see a lot of discrepancy between his words (I love you and want to keep you in my life as a partner) and his actions.
 
he told her himself that he is willing to give up a whole lot to make it work with a new primary. I understand that this is something he has wanted for a long time so he's more inclined to give in just to make it work.

It's the new relationship that adapts to the established relationship when people talk about taking it slow. If he has to slash and burn your established relationship to "make it work" with her, it's not going to.
 
Another issue I see different people bringing up here is: "Is Leo really poly?". I already asked him this question several times and he seemed almost offended that I dare to doubt this. But I think it's a legitimate question. He has been my non-primary partner for five years, it was easy enough to date me and share a part of his life with me as long as there were no other partners, he had a lot of free time on his hands. What I would like to see is some evidence that he is truly capable of keeping two relationships up and running, including open and honest communication to all parties involved.
But, as said, first I have to make up my mind on whether I want to stay on that bus, as GalaGirl so eloquently put it :). I just got a message from my therapist that she can see me on Monday so I hope to have some more clarity after that.

Thank you all so much for your input up till now, I will keep you updated!
 
You married your HS sweetie. Your BF is the first other BF. So no, you have not had break up experiences to help you in this one.

I have never broken up with someone and try to avoid it at all costs.

Why? I get that it is is not fun, but avoiding it leaves you stuck with someone you don't esp want to be with. And it leaves them stuck with you when you don't really want to be there. You BOTH deserve to be with people who really want to be there.

I just feel like I can't do that, leave someone, after I gave my heart to them and promised I would do everything I can to stay in their lives.

Add a qualifier -- do what you can to stay in their lives so long as it is healthy.

Right now? He moves way too fast and recklessly with X. And he's addicted to substances that cause you to keep your distance. Dude doesn't sound healthy to me.

I see a lot of discrepancy between his words (I love you and want to keep you in my life as a partner) and his actions.

When someone's talk and walk (actions) do not match? I believe the actions because talk is cheap. And talk without actions to back it up is just a load of hot air.

When you see your therapist, ask about "healthy" and "Not healthy" so you can make better boundaries for yourself and be ok doing what needs to be done so that YOU stay healthy.

Galagirl
 
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@elle: thank you so much! Just had an awful telephone call with Leo and I'm more confused than ever. So grateful that I have the calm and understanding Michael by my side...
 
What I would like to see is some evidence that he is truly capable of keeping two relationships up and running, including open and honest communication to all parties involved.

Thanks for changing initials to names - much easier to understand. :)

Referring to the quote above, I don't know if being "truly" poly MEANS he's capable of keeping two relationships running. I think that's a skill that it's going to have to learn - how to balance two relationships, how to prioritize time, how to make both partners feel loved, etc. The other piece is whether or not he's willing to do that. Whether he wants to put in the extra effort to maintain two relationships. And provide reassurance to both you and Xena.

I am concerned about how he is choosing to severely limit what you two have, due to his concern for Xena's needs. I'll echo what Angelina said about how if she's not okay with it now, it's unlikely that she'll be okay in the future. And how HE is the one making these choices, not her. I can't imagine Roger placing limits on his and my relationship, purely due to his concern about another partner. If he feels they need that, then they likely wouldn't be a good fit as a partner anyway...
 
Hi Lupa,

I suspect that Leo will spend less and less time with you, until you might as well be broken up. You can wait and hope he'll get tired of Xena, but that's no guarantee. If nothing else, I would sever contact with Leo for awhile, perhaps a few months. See how you feel after you've had some time to clear your head.

So sorry things have gone the way that they have. Xena doesn't sound very poly to me.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Why? I get that it is is not fun, but avoiding it leaves you stuck with someone you don't esp want to be with. And it leaves them stuck with you when you don't really want to be there. You BOTH deserve to be with people who really want to be there.

Add a qualifier -- do what you can to stay in their lives so long as it is healthy.

Right now? He moves way too fast and recklessly with X. And he's addicted to substances that cause you to keep your distance. Dude doesn't sound healthy to me.

When someone's talk and walk (actions) do not match? I believe the actions because talk is cheap. And talk without actions to back it up is just a load of hot air.

When you see your therapist, ask about "healthy" and "Not healthy" so you can make better boundaries for yourself and be ok doing what needs to be done so that YOU stay healthy.

Great questions Galagirl, I took some time thinking about them before replying. If I think about it, it's not so much the case that I feel like I can't break up with anyone, I have this feeling for a lot of things that I don't have any experience with.
- I have never ended a relationship, so it will be awful and I won't be able to cope.
- I have never seen Leo while he's in a relationship, so it will be awful to see them together (kissing, cuddling, loving looks) and I won't be able to cope.
- I have never shared Leo with a new shiny primary, so he won't be able to invest in our "old and boring, talking all the time" relationship. It will be awful and I won't be able to cope.

You get the idea. This is definitely something I want to work on because as you can see above, every choice I can make is (for me, now) associated with fear, the unknown.

I will try to focus on what is healthy for me, and what I expect from my relationship with Leo IF I choose to continue. He is still understanding and nice to me, but I feel like he doesn't really get why this is hard for me. Is it because I don't communicate my feels and needs very well? I don't know, but it's no fun feeling like your partner doesn't understand you. We do have a history of trouble when one of us is upset, angry or sad. Communication goes haywire and we both have to struggle to stay calm.
 
Thanks for changing initials to names - much easier to understand. :)

Referring to the quote above, I don't know if being "truly" poly MEANS he's capable of keeping two relationships running. I think that's a skill that it's going to have to learn - how to balance two relationships, how to prioritize time, how to make both partners feel loved, etc. The other piece is whether or not he's willing to do that. Whether he wants to put in the extra effort to maintain two relationships. And provide reassurance to both you and Xena.

I am concerned about how he is choosing to severely limit what you two have, due to his concern for Xena's needs. I'll echo what Angelina said about how if she's not okay with it now, it's unlikely that she'll be okay in the future. And how HE is the one making these choices, not her. I can't imagine Roger placing limits on his and my relationship, purely due to his concern about another partner. If he feels they need that, then they likely wouldn't be a good fit as a partner anyway...

No problem, I didn't think about using the initials and if I can help make things easier to read, happy to do it :).

That's the discrepancy though. He says that he is very willing to put in extra effort to keep both of us in his life and that I can talk to him when I'm feeling down, and that he'll keep making time for me, but right now I don't see a lot of that. Mind you, I'm sure he is in fact trying, but it feels very (I don't know a better way to put it) monogamous to me.
- The fact that he canceled a date with me without even thinking about how it would feel for me, because they felt NRE and had to discuss things asap. It speaks to me like the idea of scarcity, if you don't take your chance immediately, it flies away and love is gone for good! Why not discuss things with me and get together with Xena after that? If they met up a day later to discuss their feelings, would it have been to late? I don't think so, but Leo seems to.
- The limiting of physical intimacy as a way to 'control' what we have together. I understand Xena in wanting this, as I suspected she is monogamous and very fearful of what it means that Leo wants to have contact with me. In her way of thinking that must mean she's not good enough to be the 'only one', otherwise he wouldn't want me anymore. I don't know if she is really okay with us or if she feels pressure from Leo to accept it because if she doesn't he might end it between them.

I understand that this will be (if all goes well) his life partner, and he is willing to do a lot for that, I just wish I could have had some more time to think and adjust. Also I feel very sad that it does seem to mean something has to be taken away from our relationship to built theirs up. I thought with poly, it didn't have to be this way. But then again, this isn't the best example of poly.
 
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