Need Advice on Long-lasting Quad Relationship

1

1of4

New member
I always feel bad that I only seem to land at this site when I need advice, and this time is no exception. I haven't posted in more than a year, I don't think.

Anyway, quick rundown: I am one of the females in an exclusive quad relationship made up of 2 married couples. Our quad has been together going on 5 years now.

I love my husband very much. We've been married close to 30 years. I love my bf very much. The two of them are complete opposites and each relationship is very fulfilling to me in different ways. Each of the men feel the same about me.

The other wife and I get along kind of like sisters. We rub each other the wrong way sometimes and have had our issues, but generally get along and have made efforts to nurture our friendship. The same with the two men.

My husband and my bf's wife enjoy each other's company, but have a far more casual "friends with benefits" type of relationship with each other than the very real love relationship my bf and I have. Thus, the first issue. They tolerate my bf and I, but don't really support or in any way encourage the relationship and tend to get jealous if he and I spend too much time together on our own. Yet, he and I want to spend far more time together than do they. They are perfectly happy seeing each other every couple of weeks. He and I talk daily and miss each other terribly when we can't see each other at least every weekend.

Despite multiple attempts to move nearer each other, for a variety of practical reasons, we still live 50 minutes apart. Complicating things further, they still have a pre-teen in the house and have decided to keep the true nature of our relationship a secret until the child is older.

The longer this goes on, the harder it is getting for me. I feel so discontent and unsatisfied with the way things are and yet I am really having a hard time even putting words to it.

The best I can describe it is that I am tired of constantly missing my bf and constantly feeling sad about that.

I am tired of constantly feeling that I have to "impose" on my husband and my bf's wife to get together, when they would usually rather be doing something else, just so he and I can have some time together.

Sharing experiences is very important to me in a relationship (cooking dinner together, enjoying an activity together, traveling together or whatever...) and I am so tired of feeling sad that I can share very little of my life with my bf.

I love my bf's family (parents, siblings, child) and enjoy spending time with them, but am always deeply sad after being around them when I think how they will never know how much he and I mean to each other. Also, the mask of casual friends we have to put on around other people is wearing on me.

None of this should matter if we love each other. Because I really do genuinely and deeply love him. But they obviously do matter because I am spending 90% of my life feeling unsatisfied, discontent, sad, and sometimes even depressed.

But I don't want to end it. When we are together I forget all about all these issues. In those moments, I am 100% sure it is worth all the turmoil I go through the rest of the time. And real love is so rare, what a shame it would be to throw it away for such silly reasons.

What is going on with me? I need help clarifying what it is I am feeling, what I want, and what (if anything) I should do about it???
 
It does sound like a cloud of confusion. Let's break it down.

First of all, your bf and his wife aren't out as poly. Neither are you or your h? It's hard being not out. Everyone has to decide how they feel about that, and the risks of being out to careers, social group, etc.

If you love bf's extended family but can't quite be yourself around them, well, that can be fairly common, even in non poly situations. Can you live with that? Make compromises?

Secondly, to be blunt, it sounds like you are forcing this quad to exist. Sounds like your h and your metamour aren't that into each other, but you 4 have agreed that you and bf can only see each other when your h and meta get together (sort of grudgingly).

Many poly newbies try and make it tit for tat. "You can see your gf when I see my bf, and not at any other time." But that rarely works out. Personally I see my bf whenever, and my gf sees her bf whenever. If one of us is alone for a day or weekend or whatever when the other is out with their OSO, so be it. We enjoy our alone time, see platonic friends, go to an activity group, pursue our hobbies, etc.

Perhaps this quad is too forced and things are changing. Life goes on, people change. It's time to renegotiate!
 
1of4 said:
I am tired of constantly feeling that I have to "impose" on my husband and my bf's wife to get together, when they would usually rather be doing something else, just so he and I can have some time together.
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Why do they need to get together so you and BF can spend time together? If that's one of your relationship "rules", perhaps it's time to get rid of it.
 
I'm in a similar quad situation but we live in the same city. The dynamic is the same, spouses occasional FWB, BF & I poly. We often do things as a quad but BF & I can travel or get alone time basically when we would like. Sometimes if he & I are out of town our spouses will go out to dinner or some other activity. Sometimes they go out to lunch since they work close together. We're thrilled when they do but don't interfere in their relationship as they don't interfere with ours. It does sound as if it's time to renegotiate or change the expectations you & BF are placing on their relationship. Why can't someone just have alone time?
 
Thanks for the feedback. We don't really have "rules" like that. If there doesn't seem to be time planned for the 4 of us to get together, he and I don't hesitate to plan time for the two of us--usually an afternoon out hiking, skiing, meeting for lunch, or whatever, depending on the season and the weather. But that requires we both take time off from work, and basically set aside a whole day since we don't live near each other, which is hard. As long as our spouses are busy doing other things or are together themselves they don't seem bothered.

It is when our dates take us away from the time they consider their time, they don't really like it. But even then, they would "tolerate" it. I think he and I are just super sensitive to the knowledge that they could theoretically veto us at any time, and so we try not to upset them or rock the boat.

We've okayed our spouses having overnights alone when he or I are traveling for work (meaning one of us stayed home alone). And we've both sat home alone a number of times while our spouses have met to have dinner or whatever. I suppose I've hoped they would reciprocate, but they never really have.

Right now, everything seems to be going really smoothly on the surface. But my bf and I haven't had any real alone time together in months (just the 2 of us I mean). With the holidays, we've had family and friends around much of the time. The four of us have managed a couple of overnights alone since November and we've all 4 seemed to have found this comfortable spot in which we are getting along together better than ever. But I'm more unsettled about it all than ever. :(

I suppose it is time for a change of some sort. Short of living at least within the same town, to make spending time together less complicated, I just don't know what I want to ask for that would make all of this better.

As far as being out. I prefer to be authentic and honest and open. But I've always known that was an impossibility. My bf would lose his career, and my husband has recently changed careers and would likely lose his as well. So that is something I just have to live with.

Yes, I am feeling pretty sure something needs to change. I just wish I knew what.
 
My boyfriend has a spouse he is living with, so our relationship feels still kind of secondary. We basically have to navigate the same feelings.
1of4 said:
he and I don't hesitate to plan time for the two of us--usually an afternoon out hiking, skiing, meeting for lunch, or whatever, depending on the season and the weather. But that requires we both take time off from work, and basically set aside a whole day since we don't live near each other, which is hard. As long as our spouses are busy doing other things or are together themselves they don't seem bothered.
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Didn't you say the distance was 50minutes? This doesn't sound that insurmoutable. Why don't you take an evening?

1of4 said:
I think he and I are just super sensitive to the knowledge that they could theoretically veto us at any time, and so we try not to upset them or rock the boat
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So you acnowledge them veto power. Why would you?

1of4 said:
But my bf and I haven't had any real alone time together in months (just the 2 of us I mean).
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This is just wrong. At least I tend to be very unhappy, if we don't get hours (1-2 evenings) of alone time every week with my partner, but then, we are very cuddly.
You do need alone time. Either there is something in how you plan not aligned with your needs (you schedule skying instead of sex), or you are too dependent on your spouses. Get a hotel room, if you have to.
 
1of4 said:
It is when our dates take us away from the time they consider their time, they don't really like it. But even then, they would "tolerate" it. I think he and I are just super sensitive to the knowledge that they could theoretically veto us at any time, and so we try not to upset them or rock the boat.

We've okayed our spouses having overnights alone when he or I are traveling for work (meaning one of us stayed home alone). And we've both sat home alone a number of times while our spouses have met to have dinner or whatever. I suppose I've hoped they would reciprocate, but they never really have.
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IMO it's not "their time." The only people that should have a claim on someone's time are children. Children have to be nurtured & tended to. Adults shouldn't. Perhaps a dedicated agreed upon "date night" with spouses could help. Now I will say that if you have a dedicated time with a spouse that is agreed upon don't break it. My NRE got the best of me once & I went to see my BF after dinner with my hubby. Feelings got hurt due to my selfish behavior. You have a choice with whom to spend your time. 50 miles isn't all that far so perhaps you & BF could meet half way some evening. This of course could also need to be agreed upon by all parties as a dedicated time or "date night." It might help you to have something to look forward to. Knowing that you were going to see your BF on a specific night.

As far as expecting them to reciprocate, have you communicated that want? Your spouses are not mind readers & may not be aware.
 
As an aside, living in the same town doesn't necessarily make things easier. My BF & I both have jobs where we deal with the public. We also work in related indistries. It is inevitable that if we are out in our town we will run into someone that either he or I know. This jeopardizes our jobs as well as having the potential to affect his relationship with his children due to a situation with his ex. Around here we are fortunate to have a local swinger hangout where others are aware of our relationship & our spouse's knowledge of such. Otherwise we have no PDA outside of our homes, the homes of understanding friends or the local hangout. When we're out of town we are much less likely to run into anyone we know. We aren't "out" but because we make what my husband calls "goo goo eyes" at each other people notice even when we're out with our spouses.
 
1of4 said:
....I think he and I are just super sensitive to the knowledge that they could theoretically veto us at any time, and so we try not to upset them or rock the boat.
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This seems to be the heart of your struggle and it's something that even living next door couldn't solve. Why do you see yourself as someone who needs to walk on pins and needles in accordance with what other people want? This is about how you view yourself, not about your BF or the spouses making life difficult with their vibes. Everyone is a cooperative component in your vision of you.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

It sounds like internal conflict to me. Between...

a) you want more time with BF
b) you don't want to become more assertive about scheduling it

That seems to be the core thing.

It is when our dates take us away from the time they consider their time, they don't really like it. But even then, they would "tolerate" it.
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After 5 years? I think you and BF could become comfortable with them "tolerating" it. What's so horrible about that

Just make your dates so you get the time together that you need. Rather than pussy footing around from "fear of a veto" or "guilt that they are being tolerant." Stop trying to minder reader them. Let them speak up for themselves if there's a problem. If there IS a problem with their behavior, ask them directly if they are willing to start/stop doing X.

Allow your other partners the opportunity to figure out what to do with themselves. They don't necessarily have to be spending that time together. They could do other things.

And we've both sat home alone a number of times while our spouses have met to have dinner or whatever. I suppose I've hoped they would reciprocate, but they never really have.
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You could be more vocal about needing spend time with you BF and make your need known. And schedule a date.

"I need to see BF. I am thinking about Fri. Does that work for you? Or is another day better like Sat or Sun?" It's polite to inquire esp if there's childcare needing to happen, but just sort it out ACTIVELY rather than passively. ​

Because if you are leaving it to them to think of on their own like "reciprocity" -- that sounds like expecting them to read your mind. When honestly, they are not going to because their OWN need to see each other is much lower than your need to see your BF.

It cannot be "reciprocal" in the sense that they get a date together and then you get a date with your BF because you are not happy with that "equal time." You get that now and it is not enough for you.

It could be "reciprocal" in the sense that "each couple gets the time it needs" without trying to make it be all "equal time."

Does this picture make sense?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8DPbSbIYAEse8_.jpg:large


To me it sounds like you try to mind reader them and end up predicting doom (maybe they will veto, maybe the are "unhappy tolerating") that you get anxious about. Rather than asking directly. And then you want them to read your mind and get sad it doesn't happen. Rather than speaking directly. You could be more assertive.

I think he and I are just super sensitive to the knowledge that they could theoretically veto us at any time, and so we try not to upset them or rock the boat.
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What is this fear about? If your husband said

"I have decided to veto him. Dump him now." ​

You would not be able to say

"I see you want me to break up with BF to meet a need. I am not willing to do that just like that at this time. I AM willing to talk it out and try to meet your need another way. Could you be willing to tell me what you need? Is it more time with me? Something else? What's behind all this?"
​

and have a discussion?

Maybe that agreement/expectation needs updating. No longer calling it a veto with the expectation that the partner just pulls the plug no questions asked (and no alternate solutions proposed.)

Instead, change it to an expectation that people speak up if there is a problem and people it affects engage in problem solving by asking questions and thinking up solutions. You expect people lean INTO it and work THROUGH the rough patch.

Rather than "solve" whatever conflict by leaning away from from conflict by avoiding. That's not a helpful conflict resolution style. Then you can be free of the fearfulness.

Again, you could be more assertive. People are not mind readers.

Galagirl
 
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1of4 said:
If there doesn't seem to be time planned for the 4 of us to get together, he and I don't hesitate to plan time for the two of us--usually an afternoon out hiking, skiing, meeting for lunch, or whatever, depending on the season and the weather. But that requires we both take time off from work, and basically set aside a whole day since we don't live near each other, which is hard.
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Wait, you said in your first post that you two live all of 50 mins away from each other. That's less than an hour - how is that considered "far away?" It could take me nearly an hour to go downtown. I spend 30 minutes to go from one side of town across Central Park to the other side of town for work, back and forth five days a week. Fifty minutes isn't that bad. To meet somewhere in the middle would be 20-25 minutes for each of you and that means you have to take a day off from work???? It doesn't make any sense to me; am I missing something? I think you may be seeing things as harder than they really are.
 
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I'm sorry for disappearing on this conversation. I've been processing a lot of what has been suggested to me and have been trying to sort it out in my head.

I've had a few talks with my husband about it and have a lunch date with my bf tomorrow, and hope to talk with him.

I want to clarify a few things:

1) My husband has already promised me he would never veto us. He knows how hurtful that would be to me and he would never want to hurt me like that. My bf's wife has never really promised that, but she has said that she understands she "couldn't" veto us for a variety of reasons. My fear of a veto is probably not aligned with the reality of the situation.

2) My husband doesn't make intentional demands on my time. I love him and so I do my absolute best not to do anything that would hurt him or be difficult for him to cope with. That is a limitation I put on myself. Not one he puts on me. When we discuss what it would be like if I were to spend a night away with my bf, and my husband was home alone, he says, with hesitation in his voice "That would be hard for me. I don't think I would like that very much." So, I choose not to ask for that. But if I did ask for it, I think he would grant it.

3) I suppose 50-60 minutes apart isn't that far. It is actually 50% closer than when we started the relationship. I think my issue has more to do with the fact that the distance prevents us living my ideal of what our relationship would look like. (I'll explain more in a minute) But yes, it is easy for us to meet halfway for a drink or whatever. Finances prevent us from renting a hotel room at those times. But it isn't necessarily more sex I am yearning for so much as just more intimate couple time to just enjoy each other's company and just "be" a couple.

4) When I said I hadn't had any "alone time" with my bf, that wasn't entirely accurate. We have time that the 4 of us are alone for overnights, and each couple has their own bedroom. So we are alone that way. I think that what worries me is that there are differences in each of the relationships (which is fine, they don't have to be equal). But, the relationship between my bf and I involves "love" and therefore I feel like it needs more time and nurturing than the FWB relationship of my husband and his gf. But, if the only intimate time I ever get to spend with my bf is when it is the 4 of us, I'm afraid our relationship will slowly wither. I don't know if that makes total sense, but that is the best I can explain it.

Yes, I think that a big part of the issue is that I am not vocalizing my needs well. Trouble is, I WANT to be true to myself and honor my own needs, but at the same time I am ultra sensitive to the feelings of my husband and to a slightly lesser degree, my bf's wife. I'm not quite sure how to balance my desires and needs with theirs. :confused:

Second, another anxiety that I didn't even know was there until I wrote my first post on this last week. For the past week I have been having anxiety dreams about all of this and in them my bf is telling me in various ways that his perception and ideal of what our relationship is, is very different from mine. That he is perfectly happy with the way things are and doesn't want any change, and so I either need to learn to live with it or end it. So, I guess I can add that worry to my list. :confused:

So, I guess the focus of what I want to discuss with my bf tomorrow is:

1) Questions to help me understand better how he views what we have and how comfortable he is with our current situation.

2) Discuss my ideal for the relationship (Living very near each other so our families could help each other and experience and share daily life together more easily.) vs what we have now. And then discuss if there were small, incremental changes we could make that would help me realize more of what it is that I am yearning for, and therefore be more comfortable with a relationship that will likely never fully fulfill my fantasy ideal.

I'm open to other thoughts if anyone has them. As I'm sure is obvious, I am still pretty confused. But at least I am getting closer to clarifying and articulating that confusion.
 
Re (from 1of4):
"When we discuss what it would be like if I were to spend a night away with my boyfriend, and my husband was home alone, he says, with hesitation in his voice, 'That would be hard for me. I don't think I would like that very much.' So, I choose not to ask for that. But if I did ask for it, I think he would grant it."
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Hmmm. What about the idea of asking your husband for that, but not very often? Sort of a compromise. (Less often than you would like; more often than your husband would like.)
 
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