Sorting thoughts before a possible date...

[Tinwen]

Update

Hello everyone,
first, thank you very much for your posts. I will answer comment of points, when I have a little more time, I just wanted to give a quick update on the situation.

As we (me+Idealist) were feeling +- fine on Tuesday, I set up a meeting with Joker to bring his expectation into the discussion (well, ok, because Idealist repeatedly asked me too, and because I wanted both of them to see what was going on). But in between we had a fight again, as I wrote yesterday, which (opposed to the one last week) hurt Idealist much more then me, so he came really tired and angry to the meeting. He accused Joker of disrespecting boundaries. Luckily Joker was able to tell him in a very calm voice, that he respects our relationship, but also that pain was inevitable, and that there is no way we can make sure that any of this would be rewarding for Idealist too. It seems the message came through for the moment at least, since there was even some shared intimacy afterwards, and neither of the men seemed to mind sharing me there and then. Still, Idealist was very sad when we went to my place afterward, but he shifted his tone to "please don't go faster then I can", which is a fair request.

I felt very much in deja-vu at the meeting. I have been there already with my monogamous ex-boyfriend and Idealist, roles reversed, my ex in anger about Idealist "not respecting his boundaries", and Idealist talking in calm voice, telling him things he needed to hear. Wasn't nice, and nonsense both times. Either I am somehow creating this, or it is quite normal in the early stages of opening up...

 

[PinkPig]

Either I am somehow creating this, or it is quite normal in the early stages of opening up...

I think it's normal in the early stages of opening up. Especially when one person is more mono-minded, like your x. Even in the case of a poly partner, if the relationship has been functionally closed for a while, it makes sense to me that there could be some uneasiness and/or fear over the new partner.

 

[GalaGirl]

I think it is normal to feel weird when a new partner joins the network. The old way of going is gone. The new way of going isn't here yet. It's a transitional space.

The potential problem I see if you ALSO have a kink relationship with Idealist and you are trying to keep that up at the same time as Opening to a new partner?

If Idealist is not good at managing his emotions from the (Opening Up Space) and brings that baggage with him when you enter (Kink Space) rather than checking his baggage at the door? Tread with caution and don't kink when there's unresolved issues from elsewhere.

If he's in the habit of blaming you for "making him feel yucky" because he is not able to tell the difference between

• he feels yucky because he thinks you did something that breaks agreements.
• he feels yucky when he sees you actually doing something that breaks agreements.

...and if you are in the habit of taking his responsibilities and doing his jobs for him like doing his emotional management for him?

You guys could work on resolving that stuff first so your (kink time) isn't bogged down by that stuff. Your (Open time) benefits also from that stuff being cleared up.

he shifted his tone to "please don't go faster then I can", which is a fair request.

That is not fair request to me. It does not specify each of your jobs. And the responsibility of figuring out what is "too fast for him" seems to be on you. But you cannot mind reader him. Nobody is a mind reader.

More reasonable request to me is

"When I tell you I feel overwhelmed, please listen. When I ask for changes so I can feel less overwhelmed, please be willing to consider working something out with me."

The responsibility of speaking up is clearly on him. He owns the job of expressing his feelings and he own the job of asking for what he needs.

You also know your jobs. To listen and be willing to consider working something out.

That's more clear and fair sounding to me.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

I think I am not going on with Joker, at least not now. I must tell him.
Idealist is not ready, we as a couple are certainly not ready, maybe I am not ready too.
I cannot enjoy intimacy if it is not free.
I cannot figure out all the problems on the way. It is beyond my ability, it is not fair to the "outside" person, and it is not fun in the slightest to worry about every step. It may be I am giving up too early, but this is much too stressful. I want to try to solve the issues without the pressure of having someone waiting, although I fear that they will remain unresolved then. I don't have a concrete plan yet, except going to a communication workshop with Idealist (which I already asked him too a few days ago), but which is certainly not enough in this case.

 

[kdt26417]

I can't remember if you guys are seeing a counselor at all?

 

[Tinwen]

I can't remember if you guys are seeing a counselor at all?

No. I had been seing a counselor because of depression and anxiety for 5 years, but I quit in the summer. And I had been in an intensive grouptherapy program for 7 weeks last autumn. And I am on mild mood-stabilizing medication.
I suppose I could make an appointment with my former therapist in case of a crisis, but it would probably take like 2 weeks till he makes room for me in his schedule, and he wasn't good in handling multiple relationships or kink problems anyway (helped me a lot with my self-awareness though). I am kind of fed up with conventional talking therapy now anyways, it didn't help that much, and only offers false intimacy.
Idealist often helps me with offering his support (be it offering insight on a problem, or just holding and comforting me), regular tantra helped me to regulary clean up some stuff (I am going to try out other methods too, like "constelations" to have a further look at my family relationship, a meditation technique I found for stress relief,...), I have a few reliable friends I can talk too, I have a diary (though I am not using it that much in the moment, because I prefer interaction), and in relationship crises I find this forum very helpful.

 

[Tinwen]

My takeaway

So, I am sad, but I am taking a few points with me.

• I think I did the right thing by distancing myself for me as well as for us
  
  - I won't start relationships with anyone I don't feel comfortable staying longterm. I did that mistake once, and here I am, unwilling to break the bond. At two people, I would be really poly-saturated, if not overstretched, and I couldn't look for a primary for sure.
  I don't exclude that I will be up for occasional intimacy with someone, but that, I must learn first.
  - I took the pressure off. I can't do problem solving with Idealist, if there is immediate "danger" for him and (imagined?) pressure on me to proceed with someone and not let them "waiting"​
• I found out, that once I decide I want to be intimate with someone, I want to dive in quickly and without restraints. It takes me long to get used to that person and decide so, but after that the attraction is strong enough to make me really impatient, even if it is not full-blown NRE.
• If I am to stay with Idealist, we have an awful lot of work on communication
• And an awful lot of work for him to accept, that he may be co-primary or even secondary one day. Let's see if he is willing at all.
• I cannot let him dom me in the context of other relationships, and probably not in any kind of the relationship-direction area, much less in 24/7 sense. I will probably be always rather submissive, listening to advice easily, but I must leave the last decision to me. Even if he wasn't insecure. It may go for anyone attempting to be my dom, though I certainly have had fantasies incorporating 24/7 elements.

Notes on some most important points mentioned before:

• I do trust Idealist to dom me in a scene, bondage, spanking or whatever. He is actually great reading body language, much better than with words. I do not need colors, either I just use words that are more specific (we are not that much into role-play, so I can simply say I have had enough), or he does read it from my body if I become nonverbal. He knows bdsm is for pleasure, and he won't scene while angry. We don't do punishment either (but this should be another thing on my "never consent to" list after this.)
• Idealist does create a safe place to express my concerns and feelings. Usually he's quite empathetic. He has let me be more myself than anyone else did in the past.

On the contrary

• Yes, Idealist lacks some interpersonal skills. There is no doubt about that, and it is quite hard to put a finger on it and name what the problem is.
• As much as I hate to admit it, sometimes he really seems not to understand consent. It is like he won't believe other people telling him that something doesn't work, he must see it really not working
• I know it is totally reasonable to question his skills or consider leaving.

That is part of why I am so sad about his behavior now, and on a few other occasion. It is like there are really two personalities inside him, the one beautiful, understanding and aspiring to be a better person, and than the one who is borderline abusive. I don't understand. I just ask myself if I should judge a man at his worst, and what "bad" is bad enough to be totally unacceptable.

One general question: How do you balance "natural" development of secondary relationships with taking your primary's feelings into consideration?

Thank you very much for reading on.

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"How do you balance 'natural' development of secondary relationships with taking your primary's feelings into consideration?"

I would think that some scheduling would be inevitable.

 

[GalaGirl]

- I won't start relationships with anyone I don't feel comfortable staying longterm. I did that mistake once, and here I am, unwilling to break the bond.

It's almost like you are saying you are "stuck" with Idealist and have to make the best of it.

Is that how you are feeling?

That is part of why I am so sad about his behavior now, and on a few other occasion. It is like there are really two personalities inside him, the one beautiful, understanding and aspiring to be a better person, and that the one who is borderline abusive. I don't understand. I just ask myself if I should judge a man at his worst, and what "bad" is bad enough to be totally unacceptable.

Yes. You could judge a person by how they behave toward you lately. Is it still up to the standards for how you want to be treated? Yes or no?

I would say borderline abusive is bad enough for me to not want to be there. Because it is not treating me like I want to be treated.

Abusers are regular people -- they aren't easy to spot.

I could be wrong, but the vibe I get from your writing sounds like

"No. He doesn't treat me like I want to be treated. But I am not yet willing to leave."​

With the Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde thing -- could he be bipolar or borderline or some other personality disorder? That doesn't make it ok for him to behave in borderline abusive ways. But maybe it helps you understand that his behavior choices are his responsibility. That his behavior is NOT because of you. I wonder if your submissive personality makes you take that culpability on for yourself when it simply isn't your doing or your responsibility. So it is like...

"No. He doesn't treat me like I want to be treated. But I am not yet willing to leave because I think it is all my fault that he does this behavior. I provoke it somehow."​

How does you being willing to tolerate borderline abuse help you any?

I see where it could help him -- he gets you as his emotional, mental or physical punching bag and he gets to skip learning more appropriate ways to cope with Life. Might make it easier for him, but not all that great for you.

I do not think you provoke it. But say you do... Leaving means you are no longer there to be provoking. So the borderline abuse behavior stops.

Galagirl

 

[KC43]

To me, the fact that you're using the phrase "borderline abusive" means "get the hell out of there."

I get that you care about the guy, but that doesn't mean you have to accept his behavior. Especially if he's your Dom, whether all the time or only during scenes. If you can't trust his behavior and treatment of you in general, I'm not sure I understand how you can trust him to be appropriate as your Dom. Even though it sounds like he's demonstrated that he can be trusted in that context, the fact that he's acting in a way that's causing you to question the relationship as a whole would be grounds to suspend, if not outright end, the D/s aspect.

You ask how to know "what "bad" is bad enough"... Bad enough is when you're feeling like the detriments in the relationship, in this case the borderline abuse, outweigh the benefits.

As for developing a secondary relationship while taking your primary into account... In your particular case, I would wonder whether there's any way for you to do that to Idealist's satisfaction, and I would say there probably isn't. In general, though, which is what you asked, open communication, making sure the primary partner is aware of any scheduling issues or conflicts, making sure you aren't reducing the attention and affection you give them. Those would be my first suggestions.

 

[Tinwen]

It's almost like you are saying you are "stuck" with Idealist and have to make the best of it.

Is that how you are feeling?

I'd say that applies in conflict. I certainly felt that a few hours ago when writing my post.
Feeling stuck was kind of the topic of my nearly-breakup thread in September. Since my decision to come back then, I have nearly resolved that feeling. Because, you know, that was more of a conscious decision to keep him in my life despite him being poly, than the original NRE-driven decision to pick him. So now I do work around that.

"No. He doesn't treat me like I want to be treated. But I am not yet willing to leave."

If he keeps to have fallouts like this one? Possibly...

With the Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde thing -- could he be bipolar or borderline or some other personality disorder?

Not really bipolar, but sure susceptible to fast mood swings.
Going through the criteria, I think he has some BPD traits, but not enough for diagnosis. He is emotionaly unstable (though more able to handle it than me), he has abandonment issues and some difficulty managing anger. He is not engaging in risky behaviour, or changing his work/relationships/whatever impulsively.
He is also very selfish/entitled at times (and caring at others), and sometimes he just doesn't get social norms, or why he would follow them.

I wonder, if his failure to act up to standards of respect is "just" the result of his disrespectful family background (I don't know it, I guess on indirect evidence here) and him being flooded by emotions, or if he could be dissociating (http://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/dissociation).
I would like to understand, really.

I wonder if your submissive personality makes you take that culpability on for yourself when it simply isn't your doing or your responsibility. So it is like...

"No. He doesn't treat me like I want to be treated. But I am not yet willing to leave because I think it is all my fault that he does this behavior. I provoke it somehow."​

How does you being willing to tolerate borderline abuse help you any?

No. I tend to take on a lot of guilt, but I don't assume I provoke his behaviour. I usually rather just watch it wishing to understand, if it doesn't totally press my buttons.

 

[Tinwen]

To me, the fact that you're using the phrase "borderline abusive" means "get the hell out of there."

I understand. I understand why you would say this. I think I regret this phrase :/ However the fact stays, that he has some disrespectful attitudes, and periods where he isn't "himself" and ends up dismissing everyone else.

You ask how to know "what "bad" is bad enough"... Bad enough is when you're feeling like the detriments in the relationship, in this case the borderline abuse, outweigh the benefits.

My very first reaction was "no, the problems do not outweight the benefits!", which after all I have writen I don't understand either... but the first reaction is usually quite indicative of my feelings.
If I analyze it? It seems we need each other...

 

[GalaGirl]

I guess at this point in time you are best off defining where your line in the sand is to yourself. Both in terms of a (one big hooha thing) and in terms of (one time too many). Not like a big hooha thing but too many of these "repeat fallout" things.

Then despite however it is you feel emotionally about him? X strikes is X strikes. You part with regrets but you part for your OWN health and well being.

I generally go with 3 strikes. It's ok if you want to give him more than "3 strikes and then I am out of here!" But I do hope your number isn't like 100 times or 1000 or a million times. YKWIM?

I hope you are able to define your limit of tolerance so that YOU can obey it once it is hit.

I am sorry this is hard, and I'm sorry you are feeling sad about it all.

GL!
Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

I guess at this point in time you are best off defining where your line in the sand is to yourself. Both in terms of a (one big hooha thing) and in terms of (one time too many). Not like a big hooha thing but too many of these "repeat fallout" things.

Then despite however it is you feel emotionally about him? X strikes is X strikes. You part with regrets but you part for your OWN health and well being.

I generally go with 3 strikes. It's ok if you want to give him more than "3 strikes and then I am out of here!" But I do hope your number isn't like 100 times or 1000 or a million times. YKWIM?

I hope you are able to define your limit of tolerance so that YOU can obey it once it is hit.

I am sorry this is hard, and I'm sorry you are feeling sad about it all.

GL!
Galagirl

Seems I have homework here

Hard limit? Physical violence, or just threads of it. 1st strike and leave.

The emotional fallouts? I think he has 3 strikes in two years up to now, counting this one, specifically our first fight two weeks ago, in which he wasn't willing to give an inch until I surrendered feeling totally powerless. (Then he came back encouradging me and seeking compromise. Oh great. I don't think I will forget this. Strike.) I think all of the strikes relate to wanting me to stay in a relationship with him.
Honestly, I cannot come up with a way to "measure" the severeness, nor with a number of possible strikes, I have a real difficulty setting a boundary here. I however can set a boundary on how often I can deal with something like this. It's like no more than 3-4 times a year at the moment; maybe I will tighten the boundary when I get a better understanding of what is going on. I would like to tell him that there is a boudary and what he should bevare off, but I lack words.

 

[GalaGirl]

I meant like figure out your total number period. Not "acceptable" number of borderline abuse incidents per year.

our first fight two weeks ago, in which he wasn't willing to give an inch until I surrendered feeling totally powerless. (Then he came back encouradging me and seeking compromise.

Sounds like he blew up. (red phase)
You placated/surrendered.
Then he went into his green honeymoon phase waving the "compromise flag" around some.

What happens if you allow those incidents to accrue? You do NOT leave? Well... your tolerance for borderline abuse behavior grows higher. You begin to normalize his behavior.

On his end? He gets bolder about his blow ups.

That's not the wanted effect is it?

The cycle of abuse over time grows shorter. More blow ups, more often. Sometimes several in the same day. Less honeymoon "let's kiss and make up" time. More blowing up time, with increasing intensity/severity.

You say didn't really pick him out, Idealist latched on to you.

You say you don't feel comfortable staying longterm.

And you sound like you regret it so much you never want to make the same mistake again. Because now you are struggling to break the bond.

You say he does't understand consent.

It is ok to break the bond. You are allowed to withdraw consent if participating there is no longer good/healthy for you. You are allowed to change your mind. End the struggle by breaking the bond.


SUGGESTIONS

I would like to tell him that there is a boudary and what he should be aware of, but I lack words.

You were very clear in your first post to me about what you want. Boundaries you make for YOU to keep to. Not other people.

• In the small scale, I really am intrigued to get to know Joker better.
• In the mid-scale I might be leaving for phd abroad in summer, so then I might be leaving all this behind.
• In the big picture, I am looking for a primary partner. (You explain why Idealist is not it)

I think you could end it with Idealist. You seem to know he isn't a good fit. Not deal in any more blow ups from him.

In this time between now and summer? You could date nobody or just date Joker with the understanding it's over once summer hits.

You could look forward to your phd abroad in summer, and def leave all this weird well behind you.

In addition?

You could learn not to let people just "latch on" to you any more. It one thing if they want to date you, but YOU have to want to date them also.

You could learn not to be so shy about breaking up with people when you figure out they are not a match. Accommodating them in your life so as not to deal with breaking up?

You being conflict avoidant might be great for them, but it's not so hot for you. You could be less passive/submissive in that area.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

Galagirl, thank you very much for your long post.

I meant like figure out your total number period. Not "acceptable" number of borderline abuse incidents per year.

I know, but I don't feel an answer I could stick to. I said I had homework...

What happens if you allow those incidents to accrue? You do NOT leave? Well... your tolerance for borderline abuse behavior grows higher. You begin to normalize his behavior.

On his end? He gets bolder about his blow ups. ... More blowing up time, with increasing intensity/severity.

I read about the circle of abuse in some previous post of yours, I just never thougt it applies to me I still don't know, but I consider it. It's making me feel very uneasy of course.
Galagirl, you are a wise woman (Although I think sometimes you call doom on relationships, that can still turn happy - are you doing this on purpose to make people aware of possibilities which go against their feel?)
Should this be somewhat near to the cycle of abuse, is there another way I can stop this from getting worse than leaving?
Reinforcing my boundaries inside the relationship somehow?
Change the way of how I deal with him being out of his usual state of mind?
Should I talk to him about this? I know he can be made aware of things, it just takes him long sometimes.
Should I tell him he has (a nuber of) strikes left before I am gone for good?

I would like him to reflect on what he is doing and why, but maybe this is just from the dreamland of "changing him". He cannot, if I won't or can't explain what is hurting me.

You say didn't really pick him out, Idealist latched on to you.

That's not accurate, I wanted him very badly indeed. He offered me all the attention and understanding I needed, a number of insights, and a lot of activities I couldn't do with my ex, and basically the interesting life I didn't lead. I fell in love hard and quickly (ok, after like a year of knowing him, but the transition from casual friendship to love was quick).
The train of thought I was refering to was rather "oh wow, there is a great person, he wont be my longterm partner (because of non-monogamy), but let's have a short affair". A year later I was still totally in love and unable to break up under any circumstances. Now I feel more able, but not convinced that I want to.
Those 2 years ago, I saw the pattern of love provoked by outside attention, and I decided to be more active myself about dating and choosing partners.

You could learn not to let people just "latch on" to you any more. It's one thing if they want to date you, but YOU have to want to date them also.

I did a step now, didn't I? I don't want to repeat history with Joker, although I started developing romantic feelings. I assesed the relationship in advance and decided to wait for someone more suitable. I am sad still (I am crying when I write this), but also proud of myself for following my guideline of choosing consciously from 2 years ago.

You say you don't feel comfortable staying longterm.

I am not comfortable entwining our lives into a family.
But I want him in my life if at all possible. He's unusually compatible in terms of DS&intimacy&spirituality, intelligence&education, hobbies, sense of humour, and he motivates me to be active... I think it's a rare combination.
That's why I consider poly with another primary now.

You could look forward to your phd abroad in summer, and def leave all this weird well behind you.

Looking forward impatiently to see, if I am accepted.

You could learn not to be so shy about breaking up with people when you figure out they are not a match. Accommodating them in your life so as not to deal with breaking up?

You being conflict avoidant might be great for them, but it's not so hot for you. You could be less passive/submissive in that area.

Don't know what to say. Love and fear of the pain, so... poor emotional control?
I initiated two breakups of long-term relationships in the past. One was easy, one was really, really nasty, I think I am not really over it in two years. I also tried to break up with Idealist, and it felt like I couldn't breath from grief. I don't think it's submissivity, it's attachment.

I know I am repeating myself to shift the interpretation perhaps insignificantly.
(edit: I wrote all when it occured to me you all might be reflecting my anxiety shining through my posts. Anxiety tends to exagerate greatly.)
I don't mean to sound unthankful. I am trying to see where my perception is true, and where I should accept otherwise. Thanks again.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you are sad/crying today.

All you can do is your best as you take time to think it out.

Thank you for clarifying how you feel about Joker at this point in time. Yes, you should be proud that you are trying to choose more consciously and have decided he doesn't meet your standards.

I read about the circle of abuse in some previous post of yours, I just never thougt it applies to me

That's been my experience with abused friends/relatives. They never think it is happening to them. And considering it makes them uneasy. And figuring out what to do about it takes them a while.

(Although I think sometimes you call doom on relationships, that can still turn happy - are you doing this on purpose to make people aware of possibilities which go against their feel?)

People ask for opinions. I give mine. I go with what I think based on what I read. I could be wrong in my opinion too, because what I read is not necessarily the full picture. I just figure the OP will gather opinions and then make up their own mind for what they want to do in their own situation.

Should this be somewhat near to the cycle of abuse, is there another way I can stop this from getting worse than leaving?

Reinforcing my boundaries inside the relationship somehow?

Change the way of how I deal with him being out of his usual state of mind?

Should I talk to him about this? I know he can be made aware of things, it just takes him long sometimes.

Should I tell him he has (a nuber of) strikes left before I am gone for good?"

That's all up to you and what you have the energy for and what is actually realistic/doable in your particular situation.

I would like him to reflect on what he is doing and why, but maybe this is just from the dreamland of "changing him". He cannot, if I won't or can't explain what is hurting me.

Or maybe he simply cannot even if you did explain? I guess you could have to figure that out too. Even if you find that he lacks the intrapersonal skill of introspection? Remember he's still responsible for his behaviors.

I don't mean to sound unthankful. I am trying to see where my perception is true, and where I should accept otherwise. Thanks again.

You don't sound unthankful. To me you just sound like you have a big load of thinking to do that's tough to be doing.

I encourage you to keep at it. Take breaks, rest, do your self care. Know you don't have to have it all solved in one go. But hang in there figuring out how you want to handle it. And if you need more local level help, maybe seek out therapist? You mentioned seeing one before.

Remember that you have worth, dignity, and value and deserve to be treated well.

Wishing you well,
Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

I think I overreacted greatly.
I should not be evaluating my primary relationship two days a after a breakup, even if the breakup was like "not yet in a relationship breakup". That doesn't serve me well.
I managed to make myself really, really anxious. When Idealist called me yesterday, he had to ask me what was going on. I said I fear him and couldn't say more, so he told me to write him an email. I did, a really long one.

And you know what? I re-read it today, and a half of it is bullshit. The other half perhaps contains his problems, some of mine problem, some of shared problems.
It's worth the effort revealing problems, but I regret the nonsense, and pulling out some of the past.

He took it calmly. We met in the evening at a concert. He just pulled back to make sure he doesn't come too close and cross accidentally any boundary now, and invited me to come close when I felt like it. I could sense that mutual love and attraction very strongly.
I know we talked about stage red and stage green, but inside I couldn't believe that person I saw yesterday would ever come close to abuse.
I will eventually disentangle this knot, mine from his, but I hope I can do this without without panic, exaggeration and throwing kind of general insults on him.

That's all up to you and what you have the energy for and what is actually realistic/doable in your particular situation.
...
Or maybe he simply cannot even if you did explain? I guess you could have to figure that out too. Even if you find that he lacks the intrapersonal skill of introspection? Remember he's still responsible for his behaviors.

I don't think he lacks introspection, I think he gets blind spots in empathy in some particular areas. Concerning the outbreaks, I think maybe he offers too much of empathy on other times, so then he gets tired of it and shuts down completely.

The viewpoint of what is doable? We'll see.
First, I'll try to set up a better framework for negotiation, as well as a break to a heated discussion, if we can get used to it. Watch my boundaries better.

The viewpoint of energy?
I am definitely not leaving now. I don't want to. Even if I wanted, it is not safe for me to do so without a really stable work position, which is very unsure now. I need an occupation I "have to" do, else I am in danger of falling into "crying at home" mode for weeks or months. Not doing a breakup of this amplitude now.

And if you need more local level help, maybe seek out therapist? You mentioned seeing one before.

If I am to leave, I will. My therapist seems judgemental of polyamory in general. I can't use this now. I don't have that much money to pay for another one and I have had enough of psychotherapy. So I'll just contact him if I plan to leave.
I "lost" two friends who were willing to talk with me at length, one is abroad, and one (she is GREAT working with people) just shut down in the area and isn't processing anything with anyone. It's rather that I lack this time with them.

 

[Tinwen]

Update at my blog

For those who are curious, I wrote an update to this situation, and decided to put it in my blog, because there is no specific question. Anyway, discussion welcome there.
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=326579#post326579