A Difficult Situation... new to poly

agentb2016

New member
Hi everyone,

I'm happy I found this forum. I'm considering entering a polyamorous relationship but have faced a major problem in the past week, and could use some feedback from others who are more experienced and actually practicing poly.

I met a guy online last August, and we met in person in October. We started dating in mid October and have been really enjoying each others' company and getting to know each other better. We have what I think is a great connection and chemistry.

About a month or two into dating, he expressed that he had been unhappy in previous monogamous relationships. One in particular had gone on for five years and although he said there had been nothing wrong with it, one day he decided to end it as he didn't feel fulfilled in it any more.

He thinks he might be polyamorous, however he knows little about it.

He met and started speaking to two poly couples earlier this year and told me about that. I expressed interest in meeting the couples and finding out how they make their relationship work. I had no issue with him meeting and talking to them. However, he hasn't told them anything about me or the fact that he's dating someone.

I've always been curious about poly, but I'm also inexperienced and have only done one open relationship previously, which ended up not working for me (because our ideas of what an open relationship were ended up being very different).

So I am curious, but still tentative about doing it. I told my current guy that I am open to keep talking about it and discussing the possibility, but I asked him to keep me involved and informed. I told him that for now, I would be more comfortable doing things as a couple. I've been warming up to the idea of him doing sexual things with some of these poly couples on his own.

However, I told him that it would make me uncomfortable if he were to go off and sleep with a girl on his own right now.

Fast forward to two weeks later, we get together and have dinner, and he raises the topic again. He says again that he's interested in the possibility of something sexual happening with some of these poly couples. He also says he's met a girl that he thinks he has a connection with, and wants to know how I feel about it. It takes him a while to finally admit it, but he states that he has already had sex with her.

I was pretty hurt and felt betrayed. His action was completely out of left field. There was no heads up (as there had been with the couples), no checking in with me beforehand to see how I felt about it. He just fucked her, and then told me days later about it. She's someone that he met in a bar and isn't a member of any poly community. He apparently told her that he was already dating someone.

We had not yet agreed to any rules or even confirmed that we were in a poly relationship. I needed time to figure out where I stood on the whole topic, and had asked him to respect that boundary while I figured it out.

To add further complication to this situation, he has told me that while he likes me and feels a connection with me, he hasn't fallen in love with me (he seems to be afraid of love, saying when he's fallen in love before it hasn't worked out), and he only thinks of me as a "friend." Calling me a "friend" feels very casual to me, and I've told him I'm not ultimately interested in casual relationships any more. I'm interested in something more long term, with more depth and connection. But I feel like he's keeping me at arms length.

I'm hurt, because I've let my guard down with this guy and have started to get feelings for him. I've done a lot of reading in the past week, and his take on poly (fucking someone else on his own without checking in with me, hiding it from me for a few days, doing it even tho I specifically told him it would make me uncomfortable, and calling me a friend and being unwilling to consider me a girlfriend) doesn't seem to line up with what many people consider poly to be.

I feel like I need to either have a solid talk with him about what my needs would be in a poly relationship (checking in before you are sexual with someone else, being open and honest, acknowledging me as a primary partner, respecting others' needs and feelings, being open with potential new partners)....

Or, I need to leave, because I'm not convinced that he really understands yet what poly is about, and that there's still an aspect of love and commitment to it. He seems very afraid of love and commitment.

I'm very unsure of what to do.
 
Honestly?

I think the two of you are in different places - he is "dating", figuring out what works for him and shopping around, you are "relation-shipping" and trying on rules and boundaries, when he is not there yet. Just because you have developed "feelings" doesn't mean that he owes you....
 
agentb2016 said:
About a month or two into dating, he expressed that he had been unhappy in previous monogamous relationships.
Your whole post is written like you were now in a monogamous relationship with him and you are considering opening up. When exactly did he agree to be monogamous to you?
agentb2016 said:
he has told me that while he likes me and feels a connection with me, he hasn't fallen in love with me (he seems to be afraid of love, saying when he's fallen in love before it hasn't worked out), and he only thinks of me as a "friend."
Sounds like he has never made any promises to either have a serious relationship with you or to be monogamous.

I think that is where you need to be starting off from. You seem to assume a lot. You have expressed a lot of things to him, but you two have not made any actual agreements over anything. He is dating around, you want to settle down with him and control his other relationships.
 
7006

Hi JaneQ,

Sure - that's possible. However, I'll point out that he has largely set the pace of our dating, as I was quite busy in the fall. And he has acted very "relationship-y" in my opinion. (Texting or being in touch every day or every other day, calling to talk on the phone sometimes for hours, suggesting going away for a weekend trip together for 3 days, enjoying going out for dinner, movies, etc)

I've never assumed exclusivity (I was dating two other people in addition to him at the start), and this is why either he or I have raised the question of "where are we at, do we want a relationship and if so what kind?" a few times esp more recently. I have never assumed we were in a relationship (either poly or mono) which is why we've talked about it. However, I have been upfront that while I'm okay with dating as long as I enjoy it, ultimately I want something longer term/substantial.

Is it not fair that after 5ish months of dating and 6-7 months of talking, to want to figure out where we stand and what we both want? That's my point, is that I find myself wanting to figure that out right now.
 
Hi Nadya,

No, we have never discussed being monogamous nor have we decided we are in a serious relationship.

However, like I said to JaneQ the question has come up a few times in the past month of "where do we go from here?" He has also been the one raising that question, not just me.

I have never assumed exclusivity, as mentioned above.... although yes, I have been excited about the possibility of something more with him, so perhaps it's come across that way.
 
.....his take on poly.....doesn't seem to line up with what many people consider poly to be.

I feel like I need to either have a solid talk with him about what my needs would be in a poly relationship.......Or, I need to leave, because I'm not convinced that he really understands yet what poly is about, and that there's still an aspect of love and commitment to it.

Books, articles and communities like this one can be enormously helpful in figuring out what you want, but everyone has his/her own desires for a relationship and what matters is that two people match up to a mutually pleasing degree. Yes, polyamory means that love and often commitment are part of the picture, but dating is part of the process as well and in dating, everyone doesn't fall for everyone. I found while poly dating that much of the typical mono relationship advice applies. You have to be open to love if you're looking for love and sometimes you'll get your feelings hurt when you encounter another who isn't ready for love or isn't ready for you. Chemistry is a mysterious thing and a good fit just feels like a good fit. You know it when you find it and it doesn't sound as though you've found it yet. So say thank you in your heart to this man who has helped you clarify what you want and continue on with an open heart, ready to enjoy the beautiful flow of love with others who are ready for you. Trying to make someone fit better rarely works and all of the talking can't alter what is basically a mismatch.

That said, this fellow seems to be practicing polyfuckery, not polyamory. It doesn't really matter if he is or isn't doing poly "right," he is not where you are and he is not what you want. Take his behavior as good information and wish him well. Move on because there are many wonderful poly-ready men waiting for you with lots of love to offer.
 
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Hi agentb2016,

Based on what I've read so far, I tend to think it would be best to break up with this guy. Not that he's a terrible person, just that his wants and intentions don't line up with your wants and intentions. If things aren't lining up now, just imagine how crazy it could be trying to line things up in, say, the next five to ten years.

I think that you need time to learn more about poly before plunging in. Read some books and keep participating on this forum. Get familiar with poly and how it works for various people. Then decide if polyamory is right for you.

The two books I recommend most are:

  • "Opening Up: a guide to creating and sustaining open relationships," by Tristan Taormino.
  • "More than Two: a practical guide to ethical polyamory," by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert.
While you're reading, post your questions and concerns on this forum, and get ongoing feedback and advice from the good members here. Then approach poly slowly, if that is what you decide to do.

I know there is some real pain involved in what is going on with this guy you met last August, and that breaking up involves more pain. I am sympathetic toward you for that reason. I hope the advice we give you here helps.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hi Karen,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, I agree with many of your points.

"Chemistry is a mysterious thing and a good fit just feels like a good fit."

Yes, I agree. I've felt really strong chemistry with this guy (more than I have with anyone in a long time) which is largely why I've fallen for him. I've gotten excited about what could be, and I thought we've been mostly on the same page. However I've had my doubts about that and in the past month it's come to light that I do really question whether we both really want the same things right now.

I think part of the problem is that he doesn't know what he wants. Even he has admitted this. He has told me that he wants something committed and long term in the long run. He has expressed frustration with some purely sexual relationships he's had in the past year (one girl he said he had a purely sexual relationship with, he asked her to do something together with clothes on, and then it fell apart). However, then he turns around and admits that he's confused and doesn't know what he wants right now. He's been able to tell me what he doesn't want: he doesn't want a monogamous relationship right now and he doesn't want marriage. But he still hasn't really clarified what he DOES want and seems to keep flip flopping on this topic.

From what I can tell though, despite the fact that he really likes me (based on his behaviour towards me and what he's said), he basically wants to be free to date around and explore connections with multiple people, without any emotional commitment to anyone right now. He seems to want to continue some sort of relationship with me along these lines (while he figures things out...?)

However, I'm not sure how long I can do the type of casual relationship he seems to want right now. I do know that I want a relationship. I want love. It doesn't have to be instantaneous, but it's something I want and have been up front with him about wanting (either with him or someone else). I've had my fill of casual sexual relationships and I'm pretty done with them. I enjoy and appreciate having a strong connection with someone. I'm open to the possibility of a poly relationship with the right person. I'm also open to a monogamous relationship depending on the person, however for me it would probably have to be "monogamish" as the thought of only having sex with one person for the rest of my life is scary.

I'm planning to have one more conversation with him and ask him if he's gotten any clarity on what he wants, and clarify again what I want (a relationship) and what I would need if we were to move forward into a poly relationship. I've already told him this, but he seemed like he needed some time to think about it. I know that all I can do in this situation is know what I want and be up front about it.... if he doesn't know what he wants then it will be difficult to move forward. I'm not sure how long I can/am willing to wait around for him to figure out what he wants, esp if there's no emotional commitment there.



p.s. To those who feel I assumed I was already in a monogamous relationship with this guy - again I can confirm that I never assumed that and I'm sorry if came across that way. I assumed we were in a dating situation and there wouldn't be any level of commitment until we decided on that together and had a conversation about it. That's exactly what we're trying to figure out right now, and why the question of "where do we go now?" has come up from both sides in the past month. The only request I made of him early on, since he wanted to have sex with me without a condom, is that he get tested and if he plans to sleep with others that he use a condom, as my health is at stake (and I agreed to the same). I've even told him that I don't control him. You're right and technically he owes me nothing and wasn't under obligation to stay exclusive to me. However, I did sort of feel it was in poor taste for him to go fuck someone else with no warning, just as we've been trying to figure out where we stand and if we can do a poly relationship together.
Particularly given that he knows I'm a bit sensitive about my last open relationship with a guy who basically used the open relationship to cheat, hide things, and be dishonest with me. While some poly people may be ok with that, it's not the type of poly relationship I would want, if we were going to go down that path.
 
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and the book recommendations!

I've been reading quite a bit about poly in the last week, mostly on the More Than Two website and have found it really helpful.

And thanks for the offer to let me post questions and get feedback on here. I've been really curious about poly for about 10 years and whether it's for me or not... but aside from my one bad open relationship, I have yet to have a positive experience with it (tho I would like that!) And I think I need to still figure out whether it's right for me.

It's great to be able to find practicing poly people on here. I'm glad to have found this forum to be able to ask questions.
 
I'm glad you're here.
 
agentb2016 said:
I'm planning to have one more conversation with him and ask him if he's gotten any clarity on what he wants, and clarify again what I want (a relationship) and what I would need if we were to move forward into a poly relationship. I've already told him this, but he seemed like he needed some time to think about it. I know that all I can do in this situation is know what I want and be up front about it.... if he doesn't know what he wants then it will be difficult to move forward. I'm not sure how long I can/am willing to wait around for him to figure out what he wants, esp if there's no emotional commitment there.

I suggest you break this up to at least two separate conversations. The first one being
  • ask him if he's gotten any clarity on what he wants
Let him explain. Let him do most of the talking. You actively listen and maybe ask clarifying questions if needed. Then have at least one good night's sleep before the next conversation that would be
  • clarify again what I want (a relationship) and what I would need if we were to move forward into a poly relationship
That is the time when you do most of the talking. Also, this way you will have a better picture about what he wants and whether that really is something you can agree to.

If you enter the first discussion situation with all your wants, limits and boundaries in mind, it might affect your ability to listen. You'd need to keep in mind that there are all these things you need to remember to say and then the listening part is more difficult.
 
p.s. To those who feel I assumed I was already in a monogamous relationship with this guy - again I can confirm that I never assumed that and I'm sorry if came across that way. I assumed we were in a dating situation and there wouldn't be any level of commitment until we decided on that together and had a conversation about it.

It was clear to me that you didn't assume monogamy, but that a certain level of commitment and potential for depth of feeling are what you're looking for. This is part of dating, no matter if there are others or not. Poly dating can involve a deep level of commitment and feeling, just like mono, so this really isn't the issue. Your guy seems to be in a different place that you are on these things. "I don't know" and "I need more time" almost always mean the same as "not committed," whether you're poly, mono or whatever. This is pertinent information for you going forward.
 
I suggest you break this up to at least two separate conversations. The first one being
  • ask him if he's gotten any clarity on what he wants
Let him explain. Let him do most of the talking. You actively listen and maybe ask clarifying questions if needed. Then have at least one good night's sleep before the next conversation that would be
  • clarify again what I want (a relationship) and what I would need if we were to move forward into a poly relationship
That is the time when you do most of the talking. Also, this way you will have a better picture about what he wants and whether that really is something you can agree to.

If you enter the first discussion situation with all your wants, limits and boundaries in mind, it might affect your ability to listen. You'd need to keep in mind that there are all these things you need to remember to say and then the listening part is more difficult.

Hi Nadya, thanks - that's a good suggestion and it makes sense, so that I'm able to better listen to him.

What if he asks me for my thoughts though, in the same conversation? Should I put it off to another day?

The reason I ask is because I have already asked him what he wants - his answers have ranged from "I want something long term and committed" to "I want to explore connections with more than one person" to "I don't know, I'm confused" and implying "I'm happy with things the way they are."

These are all things he's said 2-4 weeks ago - I'm hoping he's taken some time to think about them and get some clarity, specifically on what he wants with me since I've already expressed that I'm not sure if I can move forward with the current status quo of just casual emotional involvement. But it's also possible his answer(s) will be the same.

I have no problem waiting to have the second conversation, but I guess my question is - assuming I focus on mostly listening and give him a good chance to speak his mind - if he asks me what's been on my mind about this re: needs and such, should I put it off for another day? Or should I answer his question?
 
Hi Karen -

It was clear to me that you didn't assume monogamy, but that a certain level of commitment and potential for depth of feeling are what you're looking for. This is part of dating, no matter if there are others or not. Poly dating can involve a deep level of commitment and feeling, just like mono, so this really isn't the issue.

Yes, a level of commitment and potential for depth of feeling are definitely what I'm looking for!

Just to clarify - since I've never really done poly dating....

Do you mean that it's reasonable that I would be looking for someone willing to have the same level of emotional depth and commitment as I am, even if they or both of us are dating other people?
 
I have no problem waiting to have the second conversation, but I guess my question is - assuming I focus on mostly listening and give him a good chance to speak his mind - if he asks me what's been on my mind about this re: needs and such, should I put it off for another day? Or should I answer his question?
I would answer him immediately. My main point was that you start the conversation with the intent of listening mainly. Then, if the conversation goes on and he wants to know your take on things - go on. Has happened to me several times :D I find it helpful to start a conversation with one focus point, and then - often it expands from the starting point.

his answers have ranged from "I want something long term and committed" to "I want to explore connections with more than one person" to "I don't know, I'm confused" and implying "I'm happy with things the way they are."
Well... I don't think his answers are necessarily conflicting with each other. He might want something long term and committed, eventually. But then, is that with you? Exploring connections with more than one person is kind of the essential of poly dating, and it is okay to do so while in a committed relationship already. Anyway, read again Karen's replys to this thread. She has valuable insight - maybe you two are just a mismatch.
 
Just to clarify - since I've never really done poly dating....

Do you mean that it's reasonable that I would be looking for someone willing to have the same level of emotional depth and commitment as I am, even if they or both of us are dating other people?
Of course! That is what poly dating is all about. You can have meaningful loving relationships with more than one person simultaneously. However, I don't think it is a good idea to stay in an unsatisfying relationship just because you can be looking for a better match at the same time. It is about having several good matches :p
 
Well... I don't think his answers are necessarily conflicting with each other. He might want something long term and committed, eventually. But then, is that with you? Exploring connections with more than one person is kind of the essential of poly dating, and it is okay to do so while in a committed relationship already. Anyway, read again Karen's replys to this thread. She has valuable insight - maybe you two are just a mismatch.

Agreed - I think it's clear that he wants to explore some kind of poly dating, however, it's unclear that if he wants a committed relationship, whether he wants it with me or not. Or if he just wants a more open relationship that's more sexually based.

And I think since he's also still very new to poly, he's still trying to figure out how it all works for different people etc (as am I). A few weeks ago he seemed to think that "committed" automatically means "exclusive" and I had to raise the point that it doesn't necessarily.

Yep - Karen's points (and everyone's points really!) are great :D

I'm meeting with him tomorrow night. Keeping my fingers crossed for a positive outcome one way or another.
 
Of course! That is what poly dating is all about. You can have meaningful loving relationships with more than one person simultaneously. However, I don't think it is a good idea to stay in an unsatisfying relationship just because you can be looking for a better match at the same time. It is about having several good matches :p

Makes sense :)

He has acted quite loving towards me for the most part, however he seems to have some fear of commitment and emotional commitment (hence calling me a "friend" and being afraid that the term "girlfriend" automatically means we're monogamous; strikes me as a bit afraid of opening up to love right now).

And that's exactly the issue... I'm there, I'm ready for something committed with someone. I ultimately want love (tho of course it doesn't happen overnight). But he's keeping me at arms length emotionally, I think because of fear of commitment more than anything. Despite the fact that a lot of his actions *seem* like he wants a committed relationship with me.

However as you all know I have to be very, very careful not to assume anything right now, until I hear it from the horses' mouth!
 
I wish you well.

May I assume you are both in your twenties? This is a time of self exploration. We don't get to know our adult selves, our goals, desires, plans for relationships and careers overnight.

There is no point in pressing him to tell you what he wants or needs, when he doesn't know himself. Right now, it does sound like he is merely exploring and experimenting. Have a gf he sees a lot and talks to a lot, but to whom doesn't want to commit? Fuck some girl he just met? Shag a married couple? He's all over the map. He's horny, he's sowing his wild oats. No point in pressuring him to commit when he's psychologically and physically driven to spread his seed.

(BTW if you keep seeing him, consider going back to condoms. Can you even trust him to use condoms with the others he is fucking at this point?)

If you're honestly looking for deep love, it doesn't seem like you will find it with this guy anytime soon, or at all. There is a chance, of course, that something deeper could develop over time, but it could take years! Do you have time to wait?

I think the Big Talk may not provide any concrete answer you will like. You could keep seeing him for fun and good times, while you get out there and look for Mr Right.
 
Makes sense :)

He has acted quite loving towards me for the most part, however he seems to have some fear of commitment and emotional commitment (hence calling me a "friend" and being afraid that the term "girlfriend" automatically means we're monogamous; strikes me as a bit afraid of opening up to love right now).

And that's exactly the issue... I'm there, I'm ready for something committed with someone. I ultimately want love (tho of course it doesn't happen overnight). But he's keeping me at arms length emotionally, I think because of fear of commitment more than anything. Despite the fact that a lot of his actions *seem* like he wants a committed relationship with me.

However as you all know I have to be very, very careful not to assume anything right now, until I hear it from the horses' mouth!
Here we come to the issue of "What does each word mean to you?" That is why it could be a good idea to ask him what would be the ideal situation for him. If there were no limits at all, what would he want things between you two look like? And also: what does he feel towards you? If he is scared for love and assume "being in love" automatically means you must be monogamous - well, that will be a hurdle to overcome. Maybe too much, also. Changing the world views of people deep down does not happen quickly.

Anyway, I think this upcoming discussion will be beneficial for you, no matter what the outcome. Every one of us can get better at communicating and developing those skills will help you in your future relationships. Good luck!
 
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