Why do these people keep coming out of the woodwork?

[Tinwen]

I can perfectly see where the guy is being inconsiderate to you CTF. I feel sorry for you, and a little sorry for him too, if he was so out of his mind to truly believe what he needs is "steeling" your wife.

Have compassion for yourself CTF. Loads of compassion. Not self-pitty (I am sure you can discern those two), love and compassion. For your good and bad parts, for the mistakes, for the wounds. Take it all the way back to the original wound and even further. This is for you in the first place.

Maybe, just maybe, when you are more healed and feeling more whole, you might find it useful to have compassion also for the weaknesses of others. Then the behaviour of these people becomes perhaps not excusable, but understandable at least.

 

[FallenAngelina]

The long & short of it, as much progress as I've made, it still hurts very much.

You're courageous to type this out, CTF. It's the place of truth from which great art is made and from which you move forward.

This guy or that guy, what they do or don't do, however good or ill mannered, it's not about those guys. This is about your marriage and this is about you. The men are really just characters that play out what your marriage and you are all about. Focusing on their behavior, the certain name, the sprinkler - all just keeps you on the hamster wheel and doesn't really move you forward and I think you're aware of that.

It's hard for me to imagine the Chicago guy propositioning your wife if he really thought he had zero chance of success.

This is quite astute and something worth thinking about. It's true that many women field propositions as a matter of course, but if Chicago guy was a trusted and close friend, he had to have some encouragement from your wife in order for them to have gotten to a "move your entire life" proposal. She couldn't have been sitting back, contributing nothing while this developed and it progressed not just because she is nice. I say this not to assign blame (because that is never helpful) but to illuminate that "the men" can't insert themselves where they are not allowed in. Again, what will help propel you forward is to think about how all of this illustrates your marriage. No man can jump between spouses without an invitation and any proposal to do so doesn't get past one or two sentences unless there is interest.

I hesitate to call this "wonderful testament"...

Now I understand why you're resistant to seeing the declarations of these men (so far three of them) as merely compliments to your wife. They all don't simply express attraction to her, but the desire to take her away from you, is that correct? The scenario she gets into with them isn't momentary flirtation, but pretty heavy level desire to remove her from your marriage, is that correct? There is no way that this can just happen again and again without quite a bit of cooperation and involvement on your wife's part. She seems quite conflicted and these men coming into her world just demonstrate that.

 

[CTF]

Hey CTF,

Sorry to hear this Chicago guy stirred up trouble and reopened some old wounds. I think I have a better idea now of how severe the Jersey guy thing was for you. I know you trust your wife but it wouldn't surprise me if you had some residual doubts and if you wondered if you could trust her 100%.

It's hard for me to imagine the Chicago guy propositioning your wife if he really thought he had zero chance of success. That doesn't make sense. But, I won't try to figure out what he was thinking, for some reason he decided it was a smart thing to do. Maybe he's just not a very smart guy?

Anyway, I hope people like him will stop coming out of the woodwork. You would think the supply of eligible jerks would run out after awhile!

Regards,
Kevin T.

Thank you for saying that. It's true... The Jersey guy situation was devastating. And what made things difficult, is that the more descriptive analogy I would give to illustrate the pain, the more it appeared as though I was exaggerating. Of course, that's the problem with analogies sometimes.

And you're exactly right, it's not that I don't trust her, but perhaps the residual doubts & pondering remains more than I'd hoped.

Now, here's the thing about whether or not he knew... The reason I say that, is due to the that I have made it crystal clear that we are to live in a monogamous, closed marriage with no exceptions. I'm not saying that he knew she wouldn't leave, but he certainly knew I wouldn't be okay with it. Even when he began to tell her what he did, he began by saying "I probably shouldn't be saying this"... To which my wife & I both agreed, that that's usually where one should go no further altogether.

From what I gathered, and even from his own explanation, he was in a VERY low place, losing his job, and his fiance in a short amount of time, and simply was speaking out of his mind... And my wife, ever the brain nurse, was always there to coach him out of problems... Whether it was with his roommates, girl trouble, etc... She seems to attract these people with severe confidence issues, and then the end up falling for their nurse.

We've talked about this at length... And she actually has stated frustration with feeling like everyone comes to her, and sometimes, it doesn't leave room for her own problems.

 

[CTF]

I guess I'm different.

I don't consider stating my preference like "My wife told me you apologized to her and to me through her. I do not deal in second hand apologies. I expect and prefer apologies to me to be issued directly to me. Not come through my wife" as asking the dude to apologize.

I'm making my line in the sand crystal clear. Like you I wouldn't hold my breath. He either steps up and does it or not, but it's not like he can claim "ignorance" when I have told him myself where the line is with me.

And then my wife can't complain to me how I don't like the guy or how I don't give him "chances."

1) I don't like him coming on to my wife asking her to run off with him to being with.

2) I stated my line in the sand and he did not take opportunity to clear it up with me by apologizing directly. Making me like him even LESS.

Then I would write him off and move on.

Galagirl

I understand what you're saying, and I certainly see that, framing it in such a way, may not come across as asking for an apology... Maybe, in time I might mention it & put it that way.

However, my wife is not expecting me to "give him a chance". Even she, herself, said that she's a bit wary about him moving forward. Honestly, I don't think that they're ever going to be buddy buddy again. So it may just be best for me to stay out of it altogether. If their friendship fades away organically, I think it certainly bodes better than them not talking just because my wife thinks I want to rip his head off. I've made it clear to her, that I will not accept an apology through her, and she completely understands that. As for him, he's only going to do it if he really cares whether or not I forgive him... And if their friendship dies on the vine without my interference, then it really doesn't matter to anyone if I forgive him.

 

[CTF]

I can perfectly see where the guy is being inconsiderate to you CTF. I feel sorry for you, and a little sorry for him too, if he was so out of his mind to truly believe what he needs is "steeling" your wife.

Have compassion for yourself CTF. Loads of compassion. Not self-pitty (I am sure you can discern those two), love and compassion. For your good and bad parts, for the mistakes, for the wounds. Take it all the way back to the original wound and even further. This is for you in the first place.

Maybe, just maybe, when you are more healed and feeling more whole, you might find it useful to have compassion also for the weaknesses of others. Then the behaviour of these people becomes perhaps not excusable, but understandable at least.

Thank you... I try to have compassion for myself. I really don't like to look at this as "self pity" (although, I'm aware it may come across that way at times). I guess sometimes, it's easy to fall into that mindset when it feels like wave after wave of bad fortune.

And it's not that I don't get that people make mistakes. We all do, and I readily admit that I have no shortage of shortcomings. Sometimes, experience helps us deal with disasters... But it takes virtually every ounce of energy I have, just to keep myself from going off the deep end. It's tiring.

 

[CTF]

You're courageous to type this out, CTF. It's the place of truth from which great art is made and from which you move forward.

This guy or that guy, what they do or don't do, however good or ill mannered, it's not about those guys. This is about your marriage and this is about you. The men are really just characters that play out what your marriage and you are all about. Focusing on their behavior, the certain name, the sprinkler - all just keeps you on the hamster wheel and doesn't really move you forward and I think you're aware of that.





This is quite astute and something worth thinking about. It's true that many women field propositions as a matter of course, but if Chicago guy was a trusted and close friend, he had to have some encouragement from your wife in order for them to have gotten to a "move your entire life" proposal. She couldn't have been sitting back, contributing nothing while this developed and it progressed not just because she is nice. I say this not to assign blame (because that is never helpful) but to illuminate that "the men" can't insert themselves where they are not allowed in. Again, what will help propel you forward is to think about how all of this illustrates your marriage. No man can jump between spouses without an invitation and any proposal to do so doesn't get past one or two sentences unless there is interest.
Now I understand why you're resistant to seeing the declarations of these men (so far three of them) as merely compliments to your wife. They all don't simply express attraction to her, but the desire to take her away from you, is that correct? The scenario she gets into with them isn't momentary flirtation, but pretty heavy level desire to remove her from your marriage, is that correct? There is no way that this can just happen again and again without quite a bit of cooperation and involvement on your wife's part. She seems quite conflicted and these men coming into her world just demonstrate that.

I know that it's really about our marriage. And I don't deny that there is a major factor in the situations with the previous people. Obviously, this Chicago guy played out differently, but it's tough to write off one as just being some nut, when it's part of an overall pattern where, for some reason, people just keep seeming throw themselves at her.

I try to give her space. I try to remain calm, and not judge the actions of one, by the actions of another. I try to assure her that just because I'm upset with this guy, or that guy, it doesn't mean that I hate them all. We've also discussed that at great length. But I admit, and I've told her too, that it's mentally draining, when a new person comes out of the woodwork like this. Now we're up to 3, and I keep wondering when it's going to be 4, and then 5, and 6, well, you get the point.

And as much as I try to keep myself from going there, all that keeps coming back, is how I tried that when it was only 1, and only 2.

It's like every time I let my guard down, another circumstance comes up, and I'm simply too afraid to let it down anymore.

I get that there was a likelihood that there was some sort of signal he saw, whether misinterpreted or not, I'm not saying that he never got some kind of vibe of availability. I can't pretend that I know what went on in his mind, or that I know every word of their conversation, but I do imagine a scenario where, he may have been talking to her about losing his fiance, and then it develops into talk about relationship troubles in general, and perhaps, she disclosed something negative about our relationship... And perhaps, him seeing a small crack in our marriage, led him to believe that there was room for him to stick his toe into... Keep in mind, this conversation with him, was taking place right at the time we were climbing the hump with our arguing over the poly stuff. So it's entirely possible, and probably just really bad timing. I don't know.

 

[GalaGirl]

But I admit, and I've told her too, that it's mentally draining, when a new person comes out of the woodwork like this. Now we're up to 3, and I keep wondering when it's going to be 4, and then 5, and 6, well, you get the point.

That's why I suggested you tell wife you trust her to handle it on her own, and just not tell you about it for the next few months if any more pop up.

So you can be free of mental drain for a while and get to recuperate more fully rather than triggering over and over.

I'm not saying NEVER talk with your wife about these things. I'm saying... take a time out to lower your stress and make internal repairs.

If you were a bucket? If your bucket has a leak and things drain? Stop putting new things in, empty it all the way, patch the hole, let it dry well. Do that FIRST. Then you can go back to bucket business as usual. With the leak repaired? Things don't drain any more. You may find you can cope better with less slosh.

If hearing about this stuff is just too much too soon and TMI? Tell wife to stop TMI-ing you right now. You can discuss later on AFTER you have rested and come to terms so you aren't triggering so much.

Galagirl

 

[CTF]

That's why I suggested you tell wife you trust her to handle it on her own, and just not tell you about it for the next few months if any more pop up.

So you can be free of mental drain for a while and get to recuperate more fully rather than triggering over and over.

I'm not saying NEVER talk with your wife about these things. I'm saying... take a time out to lower your stress and make internal repairs.

If you were a bucket? If your bucket has a leak and things drain? Stop putting new things in, empty it all the way, patch the hole, let it dry well. Do that FIRST. Then you can go back to bucket business as usual. With the leak repaired? Things don't drain any more. You may find you can cope better with less slosh.

If hearing about this stuff is just too much too soon and TMI? Tell wife to stop TMI-ing you right now. You can discuss later on AFTER you have rested and come to terms so you aren't triggering so much.

Galagirl

That's very good advice. And I thank you for that. She did apologize for telling me about mr Chicago the other day, because she knew that it would re-trigger. She told me that she did so, only because she wanted me to feel confident that she wasn't keeping anything from me. Which, to her credit, was a very considerate move. Not only did I appreciate her candor, but it did make me feel better as far as giving me a confidence boost about our marriage. But I think you're right... We can't keep having this conversation every other month about another person to add to the list.

So yeah... I guess what I would say is, if anything/anyone like this comes up in the near future... Make a note & give it until - say - the end of the Summer, and we can talk about it then. Obviously, if there's a serious situation that needs to be addressed immediately, then we'll do so, but otherwise, we give it a rest for now.

It's funny you mention the bucket. I described to my therapist once, that it feels like a clogged drain, and the faucet is stuck in the on position. She said, essentially, the same thing. Shut off the water, and clear the gunk from the drain. I try... I really do. But it's like I can't seem to shut the water off for some reason.

 

[GalaGirl]

But it's like I can't seem to shut the water off for some reason.

That's because in this situation, your wife is holding the the information faucet knob, not you. In this situation, you are the one holding the bucket receiving the information flow. And it's coming out too much and overfilling so there's spillover.

If she's overloading you even when she knows it will trigger you? That's not considerate. Not really. Even if she makes excuse for her behavior like she was only doing it for your benefit. Points for good intentions, but not quite there in execution.

Could be willing to call it a learning experience and concentrate on moving it forward in future.

Do ask her to stop TMI stuff at least til end of summer. That's a good plan so you get a mental break! Before you put that into effect? How about considering "traffic light colors" for information management?

I could be wrong, but that seems to be the crux of it. Like you can trust her to handle herself around guys. But HOW she communicates and shares information with you? You don't trust her yet to turn the info faucet on just enough but not full on spewy. She ends up flooding your bucket in her anxiousness to show she's not hiding anything. You could suggest traffic light colors -- most people know green is go, yellow means proceed with caution, and red is stop.

• Things like THIS are green light. Total go. She can tell you all she wants about this stuff. (Buying a new $25 ikea picture frame for the living room, friend wanting to teach her knitting, wanting to see a movie together, whatever.)

• Things like THIS are red light. Do not tell you until end of summer. You need a mental break. You guys can check in later at the end of summer. (Guys hitting on her, asking her to run off with them and she told them no, etc)

• Things like THIS? Call it yellow light stuff to be determined on a case-by-case basis. (Give examples -- she wants to buy new furniture but it can affect the budget by a lot because it is $2500, she wants to have her mother come live with you for a month in the summer, etc)
  
  She could work on her approach. She can tell you she has a yellow light thing she would like to discuss within a month, but is willing to discuss sooner. Then she can back off and let YOU tell her what date works for you inside that month so you are not blindsided and you have some time to mentally prepare without taxing your mental reserves. But she also can know you aren't blowing her off, because if you haven't made the appointment in a month, she can ping you on that again to set a date then. She's held up her end of the deal and waited patiently.

I think that is fair. Maybe you could try something like that?

You guys seem to want to work something out, but are kinda fumbling around for the HOW, which is understandable. Because if you ALREADY knew how, you wouldn't be fumbling.

So hang in there and keep working on it! I hope you can feel better and not so mentally drained soon.

Galagirl

 

[dingedheart]

I know that it's really about our marriage. And I don't deny that there is a major factor in the situations with the previous people. Obviously, this Chicago guy played out differently, but it's tough to write off one as just being some nut, when it's part of an overall pattern where, for some reason, people just keep seeming throw themselves at her.

I try to give her space. I try to remain calm, and not judge the actions of one, by the actions of another. I try to assure her that just because I'm upset with this guy, or that guy, it doesn't mean that I hate them all. We've also discussed that at great length. But I admit, and I've told her too, that it's mentally draining, when a new person comes out of the woodwork like this. Now we're up to 3, and I keep wondering when it's going to be 4, and then 5, and 6, well, you get the point.

It might be a good idea to highlight the corrosive effect of this pattern and like everything else in life people have limits. If every couple weeks/ months you have to deal with some residual bullshit or drama on top of her on going issues the ice gets really thin. Maybe she's not in a place to understand this or give a shit but I think you owe it to her and the relationship to express this and from my experience it's just a reality.

I got a call from my wife the other day she was distraught about a coworker who committed suicide ( I haven't talked to her in many months....in fact I don't think I've ever initiated a call ) ....whatever she was upset and called for comfort and I was happy to give her that. However After hanging up I thought wow I don't miss all drama and crap she brought into my life .....not at all. Do I miss having a wife or life partner sure ....would I like to have that again someday ....yes ....maybe . Or maybe I'll be just as happy dating some other guys wife and let him deal with the day to day grind I'll have the cake. It's really sort of like having a cleaning lady once a week or every other week they come and do there thing. Right now it's perfect.


I guess the long winded point of this personal story is that these are the residual effect. The woman who pushed poly into our marriage is living alone and not dating (allegedly ) and sounds miserable every time she calls. After said experience /earthquake / tornado one could say I have my trust and commitment issues so poly makes sense to me now. I don't want the cow ...I definitely don't want to own the cow and I'm happy paying for the milkshakes. Perfect world.

And as much as I try to keep myself from going there, all that keeps coming back, is how I tried that when it was only 1, and only 2.

It's like every time I let my guard down, another circumstance comes up, and I'm simply too afraid to let it down anymore.

See above ^



I asked another member on his wife thread in which she was having problems with her BF if the growth was worth it ( for clarity he's a mono husband who has struggled in the past ) ...he said ( paraphrase ) it's like asking a rape victim if the experience was worth it.

I look at this the same way I look at NRE. People like to give an excuse or pass because it's the NRE talking. I to me damage done is damage done ....after the fog lifts and you want to renter your marriage and find its too late preference works on both sides of the street.

It sounds to me like your wife will pull the victim card out in terms of these men but put that aside. What efforts has she made to strengthen the marriage? To me that could add to the drip drip effect of this because it's not really a team effort it's just you rowing with one oar going in circles.

 

[CTF]

That's because in this situation, your wife is holding the the information faucet knob, not you. In this situation, you are the one holding the bucket receiving the information flow. And it's coming out too much and overfilling so there's spillover.

If she's overloading you even when she knows it will trigger you? That's not considerate. Not really. Even if she makes excuse for her behavior like she was only doing it for your benefit. Points for good intentions, but not quite there in execution.

Could be willing to call it a learning experience and concentrate on moving it forward in future.

Do ask her to stop TMI stuff at least til end of summer. That's a good plan so you get a mental break! Before you put that into effect? How about considering "traffic light colors" for information management?

I could be wrong, but that seems to be the crux of it. Like you can trust her to handle herself around guys. But HOW she communicates and shares information with you? You don't trust her yet to turn the info faucet on just enough but not full on spewy. She ends up flooding your bucket in her anxiousness to show she's not hiding anything. You could suggest traffic light colors -- most people know green is go, yellow means proceed with caution, and red is stop.

• Things like THIS are green light. Total go. She can tell you all she wants about this stuff. (Buying a new $25 ikea picture frame for the living room, friend wanting to teach her knitting, wanting to see a movie together, whatever.)

• Things like THIS are red light. Do not tell you until end of summer. You need a mental break. You guys can check in later at the end of summer. (Guys hitting on her, asking her to run off with them and she told them no, etc)

• Things like THIS? Call it yellow light stuff to be determined on a case-by-case basis. (Give examples -- she wants to buy new furniture but it can affect the budget by a lot because it is $2500, she wants to have her mother come live with you for a month in the summer, etc)
  
  She could work on her approach. She can tell you she has a yellow light thing she would like to discuss within a month, but is willing to discuss sooner. Then she can back off and let YOU tell her what date works for you inside that month so you are not blindsided and you have some time to mentally prepare without taxing your mental reserves. But she also can know you aren't blowing her off, because if you haven't made the appointment in a month, she can ping you on that again to set a date then. She's held up her end of the deal and waited patiently.

I think that is fair. Maybe you could try something like that?

You guys seem to want to work something out, but are kinda fumbling around for the HOW, which is understandable. Because if you ALREADY knew how, you wouldn't be fumbling.

So hang in there and keep working on it! I hope you can feel better and not so mentally drained soon.

Galagirl

That's not a bad system to consider. Communication, in general is what I've been after as far as improving. Now, obviously, small purchases, or taking up a hobby are fine with discussing. So yes. Green light on those.

Yellow light... It's funny you mention about a parent coming to live with us, because we were nearly approached by our Father-in-law needing a place to live. Fortunately for us, he's the type who is a bit too proud to ask, and since I implored my wife not to directly offer, but make him ask for it, he elected to make other arrangements. Would have been kinda a hard since he lives in AZ, but I digress. There have a been a smattering of things (non relationship stuff) that kind of fall in between the yellow & red. So I would probably just play it safe & call it red, so that we can hold off until the discussion becomes relevant & necessary. For example, out for a drive one day, I pointed out some nice looking houses in a neighborhood we passed. I made a comment about not minding to live in a neighborhood like that... And the next day, I'm being sent half a dozen listings. As if I don't have enough on my mind at those times, now I have to look into the prospect of dealing with all of the unpleasantness of list & selling our house, and spending another $600K on top of it? Definitely a red light on that one.

And last, we have the other red light stuff. And like I've mentioned before, I do want to know that she's being honest in letting me know that these circumstances are happening, but it definitely doesn't change whether or not it happened, if I'm given a few months to try & take my mind off of it.

 

[CTF]

It might be a good idea to highlight the corrosive effect of this pattern and like everything else in life people have limits. If every couple weeks/ months you have to deal with some residual bullshit or drama on top of her on going issues the ice gets really thin. Maybe she's not in a place to understand this or give a shit but I think you owe it to her and the relationship to express this and from my experience it's just a reality.

I got a call from my wife the other day she was distraught about a coworker who committed suicide ( I haven't talked to her in many months....in fact I don't think I've ever initiated a call ) ....whatever she was upset and called for comfort and I was happy to give her that. However After hanging up I thought wow I don't miss all drama and crap she brought into my life .....not at all. Do I miss having a wife or life partner sure ....would I like to have that again someday ....yes ....maybe . Or maybe I'll be just as happy dating some other guys wife and let him deal with the day to day grind I'll have the cake. It's really sort of like having a cleaning lady once a week or every other week they come and do there thing. Right now it's perfect.


I guess the long winded point of this personal story is that these are the residual effect. The woman who pushed poly into our marriage is living alone and not dating (allegedly ) and sounds miserable every time she calls. After said experience /earthquake / tornado one could say I have my trust and commitment issues so poly makes sense to me now. I don't want the cow ...I definitely don't want to own the cow and I'm happy paying for the milkshakes. Perfect world.





See above ^



I asked another member on his wife thread in which she was having problems with her BF if the growth was worth it ( for clarity he's a mono husband who has struggled in the past ) ...he said ( paraphrase ) it's like asking a rape victim if the experience was worth it.

I look at this the same way I look at NRE. People like to give an excuse or pass because it's the NRE talking. I to me damage done is damage done ....after the fog lifts and you want to renter your marriage and find its too late preference works on both sides of the street.

It sounds to me like your wife will pull the victim card out in terms of these men but put that aside. What efforts has she made to strengthen the marriage? To me that could add to the drip drip effect of this because it's not really a team effort it's just you rowing with one oar going in circles.

I don't disagree with you on the corrosive pattern that these circumstances tend to have. Once can me written off (depending on the nature), twice still can be, but gets annoying, and starts to brings questions into patterns & common factors. Any more than that, even if each exchange/circumstance is varied, it starts to overwhelm. It hurt bad when she revealed the poly, but I start to get lost in the fog of it all, and sometimes wonder how different, or ow similar they all are.

I get what you're talking about with your wife. I also can't say that I'd be surprised if that happened to my wife as well, should we have ended things in her pursuit. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't still love her, but I could see myself being a little happy not to have drama like that too. However, we are committed to making this work.

Honestly, I don't know if it was an NRE situation or not. It could have been, but I do think that she was choosing to cling to the one who was telling her that she was doing everything right, whether she was or not. She wanted a yes man, and he was willing to oblige.

I wouldn't say she pulled a victim card. In fact, she hasn't tried to claim victim with any of them. With the first two, she speaks as though there was nothing but platonic interest. Whether that's the truth or not, she never tried to claim that she fell victim to their predation. And with Chicago, she initially used it as an example of how she can, and would be able to reject their advances, should they have any.

As for what she's done to improve our relationship. It's hard to put into words, but I have definitely seen a difference in her demeanor & attitude. She's certainly not leaving me high & dry, and chatting online till the wee hours of the morning.

 

[kdt26417]

Sounds like things have improved.

 

[CTF]

Sounds like things have improved.

No doubt about it, they certainly have improved. I still get my moments, and the nightmares haven't completely gone away... But much better over all. It's just when situations seem to keep coming up, the scab rips off & the wound is revealed.

 

[kdt26417]

Well, you need some way of protecting that scab until it heals more thoroughly.

 

[CTF]

And the scab is ripped one more time. Now, if there is any silver lining here, it's that I think she may have FINALLY begun to understand my point.

Saturday morning, we're both getting ready for our usual errand running. I rather enjoy this time, because it's real time that we spend together, being productive, and just engaging in the normal, boring real life stuff. But I digress...

While getting ready, she gets a message. After checking it, she says "You might be happy to know that (Chicago) got his heart broken again". I get up to head towards the restroom, with a sigh, I told her that that doesn't make me happy, and it doesn't make me sad. I really don't care what he does with his life, and frankly, as I had already stated, I'm sick of talking about these people. They did what they did, and while she can choose to accept the apology, is up to her. I, on the other hand, still think him to have acted completely out of bounds, and would rather try to forget he ever existed.

She apologized for bringing it back up, and while I accepted her apology, I told her that we can't keep having these discussions if things are ever going to get better. If I am to move on, then what I need, is to try & forget this whole ugly situation ever happened. I'm aware that she rejected him, and I'm proud of her for that... But his blatant disregard for me, was unforgivable from my perspective. So if she is going to maintain some sort of friendship with him, then leave me out of it when it doesn't affect me, or our marriage. I don't care what goes on in his relationships with other people.

I'm guessing that she thought I'd receive some kind of satisfaction over seeing him in pain. Which baffles me. I don't wish people ill will, nor will I cry if some chick that I don't know, dumps him. In closing that conversation we had, I pointed out that, when I feel like I've been mistreated, and am unable to forgive them, I feel that the only thing I can do to get over it, is to leave them completely in my past. Jersey boy is the same in that regard. Even though the circumstances were different, his disregard for our marriage was just as obvious. And I think that her perspective of my opinion on poly has been severely skewed, but is perhaps more clear now.

All this time, she kept focusing on how I "don't understand it". Rather than the painful feelings I have that are associated with it. So, in order to put an exclamation point on where I was coming from with this whole thing, I had to be blunt. I told her, "It's not so much that I don't understand it, it's that it FUCKING hurts whenever I think about it. I, for the life of me, DO NOT understand why you would tell me such a thing, if you really don't have any desire to open our marriage. I've been crystal clear for as long as we've known each other. I am monogamous, and could never bring myself to want to picture something as vile, disgusting, and painful, as seeing you receive pleasure from someone that's not me. It hurts that you don't share the same opinion on such a boundary. But to me, it's no different than slow dancing-eyes locked, with someone else to our wedding song right in front of each other, or allowing someone else to your/my wedding ring, or wanting to have a child with someone else... THAT is how sacred sex, and romance for that matter between US is."

I'll keep my fingers crossed that we're done with this topic, and these people once & for all. She seems to now understand. But I thought she already did.

 

[GalaGirl]

Good. I am glad you were blunt.

Hopefully this time she will respect your limit. But in the event she does it again... what's the consequence you can do?

Skip going errands with her? Something else?

Galagirl

 

[IndieSolo]

I think your wife gets off on the attentions she gets from other men, definitely invites it somehow, and gets some sort of sense of satisfaction from letting you know she's getting that attention - even if it's a stupid conversation with one of those guys about someone he dated. She is so self-serving, every chance she gets. If she was really serious about making amends to you, she wouldn't still be in touch with any of them.

Has anything improved with regard to doing her fair share of housewwork, getting a job, going to therapy? I suspect not.

 

[CTF]

Good. I am glad you were blunt.

Hopefully this time she will respect your limit. But in the event she does it again... what's the consequence you can do?

Skip going errands with her? Something else?

Galagirl

I honestly don't know what type of consequence there would be. I'm a big believer in making consequences appropriate to the situation. Something like that, while incredibly irritating, certainly isn't as drastic as other situation. We could skip the errands I suppose, but I'm not sure that's a good idea, since she needs to get out of the house once in a while. Even her therapist has been telling her she needs to quit avoiding public places. I'm open to suggestions, but drawing blanks at the moment.

 

[CTF]

I think your wife gets off on the attentions she gets from other men, definitely invites it somehow, and gets some sort of sense of satisfaction from letting you know she's getting that attention - even if it's a stupid conversation with one of those guys about someone he dated. She is so self-serving, every chance she gets. If she was really serious about making amends to you, she wouldn't still be in touch with any of them.

Has anything improved with regard to doing her fair share of housewwork, getting a job, going to therapy? I suspect not.

Honestly, it's not as much the attention from men, as it's attention from anyone. The thing is, that even though I have no doubt that she loves me, she tends to want people in her life that will affirm that everything she does, and every reaction she has, is appropriate.

I'll give you an example. A few months back, she needed some blood work done. She's on quite a few meds, so they need to monitor her blood to make sure that nothing's causing physical damage. One set of results came back looking bad. REALLY bad. So the Dr's office called to schedule a re-test, just to rule out possible mistakes by the lab. She called me in a panic, and I tried to calm her down by saying that it likely could have been a mistake, and to try & not worry until the re-test results come in. In fact, that happened to me once. I once had blood test results that looked like I might have had Leukemia, only to find out it was an error & everything was normal. Well, apparently, I was wrong to say anything of the sort, because what she wanted, was someone to "freak out" with her.

I love this woman dearly, but she does tend to thrive on sympathy. And I suppose it's much easier for others who don't have to share any responsibilities with her. They don't have to worry about raising the kids, or paying the mortgage, in fact, they really don't know her at all. They know the listening ear she represents to their problems, and in turn, become a listening ear to her. Perhaps they take that too far, and choose to interpret it as availability, or perhaps she gives off that vibe. In any case, my perspective, and my side of the story get pretty much ignored by all of them. But I've made it very clear that I am more or less as accessible as she is, if they ever want to chat me up. Obviously, no takers, so I have no choice but to view them as strangers.

And it's true, if I could truly have my way, she wouldn't be talking to Chicago either. But, to be fair, she did offer to cut him off just like she did with Jersey & Canada, and I told her that I didn't think that was necessary yet. She chose to cut him off until he called to apologize. I told her then, that I didn't want to hear about him. Unfortunately, she brought him up again, but I think I got the point across this time. If it happens again, then we'll have to discuss some sort of consequence. I just don'e quite know what that would be yet.

Now, to be fair, she actually has improved when it comes to pitching in around the house. She does do a fair amount of housework, although, since my daughter just stays at home & isn't working, I make her do quite a bit around the house too. She does go to therapy. In fact, that's one area where she's been very much on top of things. However, for a while, it seemed like she was interpreting her therapists advice/suggestions as though she can do whatever she chooses. But with the new therapist she's seeing, I've noticed she's being held more accountable for her actions, or lack thereof. She isn't officially working, however, we did discuss some options where she could work from home. I even helped develop a website for her, to try & get some online sales. we just went live less than a month ago, so it's too soon to see if it'll work, but she does seem to enjoy it, and she's very good at it. My hope, is that it can help her get the confidence back in a healthy way. Time will tell though.