Should I give up?

[Shari]

Hey Everyone!

I am a new poster here (although I have been lurking for quite some time now) so I am gonna first begin by a (not so) short introduction.

I have been married to my husband for 7 years now but we've starting dating 12 years ago (I was quite young and inexperienced when I met him). I don't think I ever fully grasped the concept of monogamy but it's always been clear to me that I wanted/needed him by my side. We started off as mono for several years. I think, for me, it was more out of social conventions (it is how a "real relationship" is suppose to go, right?). Although we never really had a conventional relationship as he was still very close to his ex in the two first years we were dating (which was not really a problem to me).

Then a few years ago, I started to acknowledge the fact that maybe there was more to this world than just social standards. I met several people who made me think "what if I could explore what is there?". At that period, we were living apart for professional reasons (different continents for several months) and I brought up the idea of opening our couple. He jumped on board, not without any reservation (that would have scared me too and I thought the initial discussions helped us a lot to grow up and lay down ground rules for communication) but with a very open mind, telling me "okay, we know we love each other, we don't really need exclusivity to prove us that, let's embark on that new adventure".

At first, it was mainly sexual. I had a few encounters, he had some too. Being who we are, we had feelings for those people (often remaining close friends with them) but it never went farther. It was mostly fun. It took us some time to adjust to the new situation, there were a few bumps on the road but we talked a lot and it helped defining what was our comfort zone.

A year and a half ago, I met a man online. He was charming, smart, we had plenty of things in common, we could talk for hours, we had crazy chemistry. And, even though it was supposed to be a casual thing, we fell in love pretty quickly. He lives pretty far from me (about a two hours drive) and we both have a busy life with our family and jobs. It was always pretty clear that this was a "secondary" relationship (although I hate the word because for me it is just logistical and nothing to do with my love for him). At first, with the NRE, we managed to see each other fairly often, usually a couple of time per month (at least once for an intimate moment and once for going out/cinema/museum). We would text and/or talk every day and although I wished I could see him more, I was happy about how things were going.

However, things have been a lot more complicated lately. Although we still text (a lot, every single day since we met) and his messages are still lighting up my day, we don't see each other much. He has been through some rough time at home (sick child, spouse studying for higher diploma,...) and I started a new job which has been very time consuming. We haven't had a real intimate moment in 6 months. We've been on dates together but often in a city midway from our homes where we have no private place. Although his wife knows and accepts (she is also seeing someone), he wants to protect his kids (who are all teenagers without necessarily the height to fully understand the situation) so spending a night outside is not really an option. I therefore find myself really missing our intimacy.

I am a very insecure person when it comes to my body image. So the fact that he doesn't push more for dates somewhat created in me the idea that he is not attracted to me anymore. That he had an itch when we met, I scratched the itch and now he doesn't need to have sex with me. When I talk to him about it, the only answer I get is "do you think I would write every day if I wasn't interested in you?" and "Well, I love you and I want you in my life for the long run so it doesn't matter much if I can't see you now because I know I will see you later". But yet, when we plan an intimate date, he only has three or four hours with me and then he has to ... pick up the kids/go to the dentist/meet a client (please circle the right option)... It gets me really upset. I don't mind if we do not see each other every week (it was never on the table) but at least, I would like to get some quality time with him when I do see him. When I mention it, he usually gets very defensive and say I am expecting too much of him, that he never promised anything more. And it is true. He has always been very correct and honest, never offering more than what he could give me (e.g. we never made plan/fantasized for a weekend get away because given our situations, we know it is unlikely to happen...) So, is that wrong of me to want just a bit more? I feel that, just like any relationship, this one should be able to evolve. I feel stuck and I don't know how to react anymore. I love him and I don't want to lose him. But I am also kinda giving up on having a physical relationship with him. Should I just be happy to have him in my life and keep him around as an online friend (because on my side seeing him and not touching, kissing, hugging him would be next to impossible)?

I am a bit lost and I don't have much people to talk to. My hubby and I agreed not to talk too much about the details of our relationships. It is our private garden, we know the other partner(s) but the dynamic between us and our secondary partners is private. Last weekend, I broke down and he held me stroking my hair while I was crying over my boyfriend and it made me feel guilty. He shouldn't have to see me sad or to comfort me when our own relationship is the best it has ever been (but maybe it is only an old mono reflex... not sure why it felt so unfair to him).

Thanks for reading that (too?) long message!
Cheers,
Shari

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle. I hope getting some of that out was a small comfort.

LDR can be hard, and if his kid is sick and spouse is seeking diploma -- that lands a lot of the home things on him. His time is limited. He seems to be trying despite the stress. He's been up front and honest with you.

But if it is not enough for you? It isn't enough. I know myself -- I HATE LDR. I've done it twice, and I hated it. So rather than put myself through that yet again, I just don't. I have to respect my own limitations.

I think you could sit down to figure out where you stand on long distance relationships.

• If you find this is worth it and you are willing to deal with a rough patch and see it through? By all means, see it through. Enjoy what you have and find ways to hang in there til kid is no longer sick and diploma is obtained. Hopefully you know when things might change.

• If you want to change it to friendship and let go of being lovers? Do that.

• If you find LDR is unbearable, maybe it is something to consider when you date your other partners -- that you only want local.

As for telling your spouse things -- I get not wanting to TMI. But if it's a serious upset, I would like to think you could tell him. Including him in what's going in on your life is part of sharing emotional intimacy.

I think you could do some soul searching and figure out what you most want at this time.

Again, I'm sorry you are going through a hard time.

Galagirl

 

[PhysicsIsPants]

I am sorry that you're having a hard time right now.

I agree with Galagirl that you need to spend some time thinking about where you stand on long distance relationships. I personally have never been in one; however, I have seen some of the difficulties that geographic separation can introduce through friends who have tried to maintain LDRs. IMO, the question comes down to what do you personally need to feel happy and fulfilled, and can this relationship give you what you need. If the answer is no... Then the answer is no.

I do understand that you both have agreed to keep certain things private; however, I would also like to resonate with Galagirl that part of emotional intimacy with your spouse is being able to discuss this kind of thing with him. He knows you, and can maybe offer you the perspective of someone who is knowledgeable of your needs and yet has an outside perspective on the relationship itself.

 

[Shari]

Thanks to you both for your warm answers.

I understand your point. I think the problem was that
1) I didn't really considered it a LDR at first. It seemed close enough to see each other every other week without being a strain on the relationship - maybe living in a world of expats seeing their spouses once a month skewed my view on what is LDR and what is not.
2) I have myself been physically separated of my hubby for a year and it went fine. But we knew it was for a definite period of time and maybe it made things easier.

Maybe my current distress comes from the fact the situation is not working for me but at the same time, I am telling myself "come one, you have a great guy there who loves you, why can't you enjoy what you have and stop overthinking everything? Why do you let your insecurities overrun everything else?"

Now, sorry if I was not clear: I did share with my husband what was happening. And it is precisely why I felt guilty. Because I felt I was somehow trespassing this agreement. He didn't mind at all though, he gave me some valuable insights (he fought hard to break my insecurities and I think he hates seeing me struggling again in a new relationship with exactly the same things) and told me he was always there for me.

 

[GalaGirl]

1) I didn't really considered it a LDR at first. It seemed close enough to see each other every other week without being a strain on the relationship - maybe living in a world of expats seeing their spouses once a month skewed my view on what is LDR and what is not.

1 of mine was cross country, that bombed. I didn't get enough communication to make it worthwhile and this was before the days of things like cheap cel phone calls and skype.

1 of mine was several states. It went better, but still tough. That one had enough communication, but not enough time together face to face.

One of mine was 90 minutes away. It was still hard and if it wasn't for the fact that it was only a year? I don't think I could have taken it. We made do with weekend visits but even then it was taxing.

2) I have myself been physically separated of my hubby for a year and it went fine. But we knew it was for a definite period of time and maybe it made things easier.

That's what made the third one bearable. But if it had been longer than a year I would have ended it because I really dislike LDR.

I did share with my husband what was happening. And it is precisely why I felt guilty. Because I felt I was somehow trespassing this agreement.

Rather than beat yourself up over "failing" to meet an agreement, consider if the agreement was realistic enough to begin with or covered enough areas. Sometimes one has to live with an agreement for a while and then do some "fine tuning" along the way before getting it just right.

It is possible to set some initial agreements with the understanding that when actually practicing them, they might need some fine tuning.

Galagirl

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

Maybe my current distress comes from the fact the situation is not working for me but at the same time, I am telling myself "come one, you have a great guy there who loves you, why can't you enjoy what you have and stop overthinking everything? Why do you let your insecurities overrun everything else?"

No advice here, but that part I quoted is basically the story of my life right now!

My boyfriend lives only an hour from me (and works less than ten minutes from my office) but I feel like I never get "enough" with him. Enough time, enough investment, enough sex... Enough anything And like you, I stay in the relationship because I love him, and he loves me, and part of me believes that alone should be enough. Or maybe I'm just trying to convince myself of that.

I just want you to know you're not alone in the way you feel - it's hard to love someone and not get much time with them; it's hard to love someone and feel like you are stuck on the periphery of their life. It's especially tough when it seems like your partner is content with what you have, and you're not.

 

[IndieSolo]

We haven't had a real intimate moment in 6 months. We've been on dates together but often in a city midway from our homes where we have no private place . . . But yet, when we plan an intimate date, he only has three or four hours with me . . .

And neither of you ever thought about getting a motel or hotel room for three or four hours?

From another discussion thread:

Most "decent" motels won't advertise this and it won't be on their website, but many perfectly normal motels do have day rates with two or three hour minimums.

 

[Shari]

Rather than beat yourself up over "failing" to meet an agreement, consider if the agreement was realistic enough to begin with or covered enough areas. Sometimes one has to live with an agreement for a while and then do some "fine tuning" along the way before getting it just right.

It is possible to set some initial agreements with the understanding that when actually practicing them, they might need some fine tuning.

This is absolutely true. I think I would have felt more comfortable if I could have sat down and asked him if it was okay to talk rather than breaking down and dumping that on him.

I just want you to know you're not alone in the way you feel - it's hard to love someone and not get much time with them; it's hard to love someone and feel like you are stuck on the periphery of their life. It's especially tough when it seems like your partner is content with what you have, and you're not.

I am sorry to hear you are struggling too. I can only imagine how hard it must be to work 10 min away from each others. I would certainly get a few more lunch date if it was the case...

And neither of you ever thought about getting a motel or hotel room for three or four hours?

We already used that option when the kids were at home and we had nowhere to go. However, this is not really an option when we meet half-way because hotels are too expensive in the city center, even for a few hours and we cannot afford this kind of money.

 

[FallenAngelina]

..... I am telling myself "come one, you have a great guy there who loves you, why can't you enjoy what you have and stop overthinking everything? Why do you let your insecurities overrun everything else?"

......(husband) fought hard to break my insecurities and I think he hates seeing me struggling again in a new relationship with exactly the same things.....

Nobody can "break" your insecurity forcefield. That's something you have to do all on your own. Your husband clearly loves you and has offered you a lot of compassionate, positive care from which you've benefitted, but you still have quite an internal struggle going on around your sexual self-image and it's showing itself to you in this dilemma about full sexual expression in this LDR. The way forward is not to focus on his availability, but to introspectively ask yourself why you're drawn to situations in which your partners are not able to be fully with you. If you were A-OK, completely at ease about your sexuality, you would sync up with partners with whom you'd find ways to be together pretty easily and happily. Explore the story you're telling yourself about your insecurities and why you hold them close like a shield. That's your journey and that's the way forward.

 

[Shari]

Thanks a lot FallenAngelina.

I truly believe that the only one who can deal with those insecurities is me, and in that you are right.
I never wanted my hubby to fight my battles but he did play a major role in making me acknowledge the fact I needed to deal with those insecurities. And I thought I did. Until they resurfaced in that new relationship.

The way forward is not to focus on his availability, but to introspectively ask yourself why you're drawn to situations in which your partners are not able to be fully with you. If you were A-OK, completely at ease about your sexuality, you would sync up with partners with whom you'd find ways to be together pretty easily and happily.

To be honest, I didn't fully grasp what you were meaning here. I was drawn to him for his personality and I had no intention at first to start a relationship. It just happened. I have no history of being involved with unavailable men...

 

[anamikanon]

While your relationship can't normally see you spending extensive time with each other, it is worth considering to save and plan up for a while to get a weekend together somewhere cheap that lets both of you get some time and space together to resolve issues that seem to be happening. The attempt itself would be the cure, from the sound of it.

If the parameters the relationship exists in aren't working for you and they aren't even flexible enough to be bent when you are distressed, then perhaps the relationship may simply not be a good one for you at this time.

He has been upfront and has commitments and responsibilities and he hasn't made promises he doesn't intend to keep. So I guess the question is whether he would consider working to find some space together when his wife could briefly take over home to give him some space and/or his child was better? While teenagers can be a reason to not make a habit out of overnight meetings, surely even teenagers understand a parent going out of town for some reason on occasion without expecting too many boring adult details?

I think it is great you were able to talk about this with your husband. I understand your feeling guilt over him having to support you in a relationship with someone else, but the picture is bigger. In his shoes, I'd want to support my partner when he was distressed - regardless of reason, including a relationship I knew about. It is love to hold someone and help them think things through. I think you should let go of the guilt and enjoy the love and security in the relationship that does seem to be going very well as well.

 

[FallenAngelina]

.... [husband] did play a major role in making me acknowledge the fact I needed to deal with those insecurities. And I thought I did. Until they resurfaced in that new relationship.

A very accurate gauge of where one is re: insecurities is a new relationship. You (all of us) will be shown every conflict and fear that has been lying dormant inside of yourself for a very long time.

I had no intention at first to start a relationship. It just happened. I have no history of being involved with unavailable men...

OK, that's helpful that you have no history with unavailable men, so you know what being with a fully available man feels like. Use this base line for evaluating other relationships. Sometimes it feels as though things "just happen" and that we just fall in with someone, but that is actually not so. Relationships are a choice that we make every day and relationships always reflect the stories we've got going on inside of ourselves. Always. In changing our experience of relationships, we don't let go of feelings like fear, guilt and worry so much as we replace the old, sad stories with new, better feeling, updated stories that give us mobility and inspiration. Situations never change for long because we ask someone else to behave differently. "Communication is the key" isn't really THE key to fulfilling connections. How we see ourselves is the key and if you don't like this one, you can always forge a new key.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Shari,

It seems to me that you are caught in a situation that isn't going to change, because, this two-hour-away man is content with the way things are, and has repeatedly pointed out that he never promised anything more than what he is already giving. So, your options are to continue seeing him what little you can, hoping he'll eventually change his mind and want to see you more, or at least that you'll eventually get used to the situation, or you can transition to a friends-only relationship and stop dating him. This would free up some time and energy to seek out someone else.

I don't know if that's very helpful, but those are your options from what I can tell.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

I agree with other posters that LDRs are hard, and I have also made the choice to only date local people. It took me a while to realise that, for me, that is the healthiest, and most fun, option.

I've been hurt, though, dating even local people, who unexpectedly turned out to be just extremely busy with family and career, and despite good chemistry and a warm intellectual component, and seemingly so much potential, were unavailable to spend the kind of time with me I wanted. I hear that you two started out (during NRE) seeing each other twice a month, and you were happy with that. But now you want more... either quantity, or quality, time. You want more sex! I would too!

I've got some friendship LDRs... with my sister, with some friends, and I know we will only see each other twice a year, and I am basically fine with online chat, and seeing their Facebook updates, until we have time and money set aside for face to face time. I wish we lived closer so we could see each other more. Heck, my daughter and her little babies only live an hour and a half away, but her busyness and my bad back which is currently making driving that distance difficult, prevents seeing them as often as I would like.

You said you wish that this relationship, "like any relationship, should be able to evolve." Having this expectation is part of monogamous culture we all grew up with. In poly culture, this is called the relationship escalator. GirlfromTexlahoma has a big issue with that. (Read her blog in our blog section for more on how she is handling it.)

Fact is, in poly, sometimes riding the traditional escalator even part way up just isn't possible. I try to have realistic expectations and to be understanding and accepting that: this is what they offer. Is it enough for me, or does it hurt too much, is it too frustrating, to be offered only X hours per month?

Fantasy and reality don't always match up. It can be a struggle to accept this. Feeding your struggle is your negative body image. Coming to terms with that is an inside job, but for me, as a full figured woman, and also an older woman, it helps to have dated enough people who LOVE my body shape and my gift of maturity, and who are also turned on by my character and personality, to know I am super attractive, beautiful, and hot (to certain people). I don't know if it's weight or something else you're bashing yourself for, but it would help to get over that, with help from friends, books, a support group, or therapy, or whatever works for you.

 

[Shari]

Sorry for the delay in my answer, I have been pretty sick for the last few days.

Thanks a lot to all of you for your very helpful answers. I still have a lot to process as you provided a lot of food for thoughts in your posts. This is my first poly relationship and I don't always know how to deal with overwhelming feelings in that context.

I think that I need to have a clear talk with him, we planned to see each other next week. I know he never promised me anything but I just assumed that the way we lived the first months of our relationship was gonna be the baseline while it turned out to be the (NRE) exception. And there, I made a big mistake. Now it is for me to decide if I get enough out of this relationship or not. I am slowly coming to term with the fact that I need to either accept and embrace the relationship for what it is or get out of it asap. But it is a difficult task: I cannot imagine my life without him right now but at the same time, this relationship is not working for me (hence the initial drive to ride the escalator Magdlyn talked about). And I need to let go of that catch 22 if I want to get past it because as long as I stick to it (using whatever excuses: insecurities, ...), I will be stuck in a limbo of non-satisfaction.

Thanks again for all your reactions, I will keep you posted on how it goes.

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"Thanks again for all your reactions, I will keep you posted on how it goes."

Sounds good.

 

[Shari]

Hey everybody!

As promised, a short post to keep you updated.

I broke up with my boyfriend today. We met and had a talk. It wasn't a fight, it wasn't a disagreement. Just two people very much in love letting go of each other.

I am still in awe of the love and respect he showed me tonight. I think part of me hoped he would be an asshole, kicking and screaming (not literally of course...)
His point was very simple: "I am happy with the situation but you are not, I cannot offer more now so I have to let you go."

In the process, I have also lost one of my best friend. Right now, I am just in shock that he is not gonna be part of my life anymore...

Thanks for listening to me and helping me with your advices.

 

[kdt26417]

Sorry about the breakup, that is never a fun thing to go through even if it's for the best.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hey everybody!

As promised, a short post to keep you updated.

I broke up with my boyfriend today. We met and had a talk. It wasn't a fight, it wasn't a disagreement. Just two people very much in love letting go of each other.

I am still in awe of the love and respect he showed me tonight. I think part of me hoped he would be an asshole, kicking and screaming (not literally of course...)
His point was very simple: "I am happy with the situation but you are not, I cannot offer more now so I have to let you go."

In the process, I have also lost one of my best friends. Right now, I am just in shock that he is not gonna be part of my life anymore...

Can you not continue to be close friends just because you are letting go of the sexual/romantic component?

 

[Shari]

Can you not continue to be close friends just because you are letting go of the sexual/romantic component?

He asked this question. He told me he knew we might have to stop being lovers but he had never foreseen losing his best friend.

To be honest, I would love to stay friends with him. But how am I to stop loving him if we are constantly chatting and talking? I am not sure how it would work out.