It's a Texlahoma Story
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GirlFromTexlahoma
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Or a cold shower! 
It did! But... Damn, this is hard to explain... The sexual connection grew from the emotional connection. At least it did for me. To hear that it was the other way around for him, yeah, it hurts.
I have sooo many issues around worrying that guys see me as "good enough to fuck, but not good enough to date". Just a piece of ass. I can't imagine ever having sex with someone I wouldn't want as a platonic friend. I used to think everyone was on the same page about that, but I got burned a couple of times in the early days of opening my marriage.
The thing is, Dag KNOWS all that. It's of the things we talked about endlessly the last few weeks. In one of those emails he never bothered to answer, I specifically mentioned needing reassurance around that subject - like, actual verbal reassurances that he didn't see me as just a source of sex. Of course he was all, yes, I'll be more reassuring! and then forgot all about it. But. Makes me feel he said that stuff about sex being the root of our relationship just to hurt me. And it worked.
See, to me, there is no "downgraded" in going from lovers to platonic friends. They're equally wonderful. Just different. To be honest, I tend to see my friendships as MORE valuable than "romantic relationships", because they are usually more stable and more entangled.
I'm sure he also values the friendship with you! I certainly care about Dag's friendship.
And you know, I feel like my friendship and companionship is MUCH more valuable than my body. So there's also this part of it that's like, I'm not taking away anything truly important from our relationship! Just sex! Why don't you get that?
But there's definitely a guilt issue too. I'm trying to push the friends thing, hoping he'll see that we are better as platonic friends, that this is not a "downgrade" as you put it, but an improvement! Because then I don't have to sit with the knowledge that I hurt him.
It did! But... Damn, this is hard to explain... The sexual connection grew from the emotional connection. At least it did for me. To hear that it was the other way around for him, yeah, it hurts.
I have sooo many issues around worrying that guys see me as "good enough to fuck, but not good enough to date". Just a piece of ass. I can't imagine ever having sex with someone I wouldn't want as a platonic friend. I used to think everyone was on the same page about that, but I got burned a couple of times in the early days of opening my marriage.
The thing is, Dag KNOWS all that. It's of the things we talked about endlessly the last few weeks. In one of those emails he never bothered to answer, I specifically mentioned needing reassurance around that subject - like, actual verbal reassurances that he didn't see me as just a source of sex. Of course he was all, yes, I'll be more reassuring! and then forgot all about it. But. Makes me feel he said that stuff about sex being the root of our relationship just to hurt me. And it worked.
See, to me, there is no "downgraded" in going from lovers to platonic friends. They're equally wonderful. Just different. To be honest, I tend to see my friendships as MORE valuable than "romantic relationships", because they are usually more stable and more entangled.
I'm sure he also values the friendship with you! I certainly care about Dag's friendship.
And you know, I feel like my friendship and companionship is MUCH more valuable than my body. So there's also this part of it that's like, I'm not taking away anything truly important from our relationship! Just sex! Why don't you get that?
But there's definitely a guilt issue too. I'm trying to push the friends thing, hoping he'll see that we are better as platonic friends, that this is not a "downgrade" as you put it, but an improvement! Because then I don't have to sit with the knowledge that I hurt him.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
So many yucky feelings this morning. I couldn't sleep last night and I'm too exhausted to even bother with paragraphs and complete sentences soooo...
I feel like such a failure.
I hate that poly seems to mean people coming into my life and then just leaving. I get that relationships change and people drift apart. There are people who were best friends in college who are now just names on my FB friends list. But this whole sudden, complete, abrupt END? Going from best friends to NOTHING? That never happened before poly, and now it has happened 3 times. How do people deal with this???
I just want to curl up and sleep all day.
Maybe I should have tried harder at dating Dag and others. Maybe I could have gotten over my inability to feel sexual with more than one guy. Or hell, I could have found a new boyfriend, and just sucked it up and had shitty numb sex with Dag once a month so he would stay my friend.
Guilt, guilt, guilt for wanting to go out and date and have sex.
I feel like such a failure.
I hate that poly seems to mean people coming into my life and then just leaving. I get that relationships change and people drift apart. There are people who were best friends in college who are now just names on my FB friends list. But this whole sudden, complete, abrupt END? Going from best friends to NOTHING? That never happened before poly, and now it has happened 3 times. How do people deal with this???
I just want to curl up and sleep all day.
Maybe I should have tried harder at dating Dag and others. Maybe I could have gotten over my inability to feel sexual with more than one guy. Or hell, I could have found a new boyfriend, and just sucked it up and had shitty numb sex with Dag once a month so he would stay my friend.
Guilt, guilt, guilt for wanting to go out and date and have sex.
IndieSolo
Active member
Claire, you are so very hard on yourself. It was Dag who did not meet your needs adequately, did not quite grasp what it was you wanted and needed in the relationship, and who is unable to be friends now that the sexual aspect is over.
And yet you are judging, criticizing, and scolding yourself for "not getting it right" somehow, as if you were wrong to want more time, more closeness, and not to feel like a piece of ass? On top of that you have immersed yourself in guilt. My former therapist used to say that guilt was a useless emotion, and I think he was right. It doesn't do you any good to indulge in that. Look underneath the guilt and see what's there.
Do you think it would've been better to compromise your integrity? To not stand by what you knew you needed, to just go along with what Dag wanted at the expense of your own happiness?
Claire, you've done nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing!
I think a day out in the sunshine with your dogs, or hanging out with your dear close friends, would be a better thing for you than curling up under the covers. While you're out, make a mental list of all the things you are grateful for - it does help!
And yet you are judging, criticizing, and scolding yourself for "not getting it right" somehow, as if you were wrong to want more time, more closeness, and not to feel like a piece of ass? On top of that you have immersed yourself in guilt. My former therapist used to say that guilt was a useless emotion, and I think he was right. It doesn't do you any good to indulge in that. Look underneath the guilt and see what's there.
Do you think it would've been better to compromise your integrity? To not stand by what you knew you needed, to just go along with what Dag wanted at the expense of your own happiness?
Claire, you've done nothing wrong. Absolutely nothing!
I think a day out in the sunshine with your dogs, or hanging out with your dear close friends, would be a better thing for you than curling up under the covers. While you're out, make a mental list of all the things you are grateful for - it does help!
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GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
But I'm the one who gave up on us. The one who quit trying.
After all my whining and agonizing over whether Dag really cared about being with me - I was the one who stopped caring enough about our relationship to put in the work.
I feel like such a hypocrite.
You know what else makes me feel like a hypocrite? I am so not into the idea of dating partnered guys right now. How awful is that? I'm as partnered as they come.
Renaissance seems so awesome, but ... Every time I think about his (admittedly very sweet sounding) fiancé, I get stressed. I dread having to make nice with potential metamours. Trying to learn a new set of boundaries and worrying about overstepping. Dealing with scheduling and jealousy and ugh ugh ugh.
I took this advice - the sunshine with the dogs part, at least!
Andy and I had a fight this morning that ended with both of us sobbing. He was upset because I was excited about dinner with Renaissance this week, but I haven't wanted to go out to dinner with him... Except I HAVE! I suggested dinner out YESTERDAY, and he said no. He said because I didn't seem really into it. Sigh.
Anyway, we went back and forth for about ten minutes and then both started to cry. That's how fights with Andy go. We can't stay upset, it hurts like a knife in my heart to see him upset, he feels the same about me. So we hugged forever and tried through tears to figure out where we messed up communicating. In short, I thought he was trying to stick to a strict diet, and he thought *I* was, and neither of us wanted to be the bad influence food-wise.
After that we were both just desperately in need of a break, so we drove up to the lake and ate a takeout picnic and watched the dogs play. Was really nice
You are doing BOTH of you a favor. It was not working for EITHER of you.Give both of you a long time out to let feelings settle and friendship may return. You both have to have time to get over losing your vision of what you wanted to have but could not get from each other. Let yourself mourn. Go through all the stages of grief that you need to go through.
Leetah
Leetah
IndieSolo
Active member
Oh my goodness, I don't even know how you can possibly see it that way. Claire darlin', ever since you first started posting here about Dag, you've written time and time again about how you were trying to make things work, talking to us and then to Dag about your feelings and about what wasn't working, then not talking to Dag so as not to dump on him and trying to work it through on your own, spending days in bed sobbing because of how much you struggled to be there for him in the way he wanted you to -- knowing full well he would not be there for you the way you needed him to -- trying to be the good, totally accepting girlfriend even though you had misgivings and, ultimately, were not happy with how you were being treated. You tried and tried and tried and tried and tried, and Dag responded with mostly lip service and some minor efforts to make changes, but not much really.
I don't know where, along the way, you were taught that what you want for your own happiness is something you don't deserve or should be ashamed about, but it's doing you absolutely no good to listen to that old tape in your head. And do you truly believe that if you draw the line and say "no more of this shit that's making me miserable, I've had all I can take" somehow that makes you a quitter who didn't try hard enough???? Would you tell that to a friend who broke up with someone who couldn't step up to give her what she wanted and needed in the relationship? Would you tell her that she didn't try hard enough and just quit?
And what is wrong with quitting when you've reached a point where it simply cannot work anymore? It's okay to say "I need to stop right now and take myself away from all this so I can start over." When a ship starts to sink, the smart thing to do is grab a life preserver and jump into the water to save yourself by swimming away! Or get into a life raft. Don't just stand there on a sinking ship!
You are not just being hard on yourself - you're being cruel.
I have an online friend from another message board I visit, and right now she is dealing with some difficult crap. This sounds really New Age-y, but what she started doing recently whenever she is scared, upset, or down on herself, is talk to her inner child. She doesn't get into a lot of New Age crap, but she realized that all her old self-defeating behaviors were adaptive responses to fears, stressors, and the kind of parenting she got when she was pretty young. So she has conversations with herself. She talks to her inner child in a very kind and compassionate way, and then she takes care of herself. It's been very healing for her.
One thing this friend wrote, which might give you something to think about:
"...now I realize that "failure child" is the fake - the imposter, the one putting on a false front to be tolerated and avoid rejection from [people in my life].
And so now, I find myself (my adult self), who is strong, competent, smart, creative, pretty darn amazing and can do almost anything she puts her mind to, explaining to the wounded child part of me that I can take care of this, and *I* (me, the competent adult) can do what needs to be done.
It's amazing the attitude change this has made. I no longer look at [things in my life that need to be dealt with] and feel overwhelmed, weak, or helpless. Yes, there's a lot to do. But this grown, smart, competent woman can do it."
And so now, I find myself (my adult self), who is strong, competent, smart, creative, pretty darn amazing and can do almost anything she puts her mind to, explaining to the wounded child part of me that I can take care of this, and *I* (me, the competent adult) can do what needs to be done.
It's amazing the attitude change this has made. I no longer look at [things in my life that need to be dealt with] and feel overwhelmed, weak, or helpless. Yes, there's a lot to do. But this grown, smart, competent woman can do it."
Maybe her words will help you realize that you are not a failure, or a quitter, because you stood up for what you wanted and needed in your relationship and chose to stop taking whatever crumbs Dag threw you. That is just old programming running in your brain-computer. You don't have to keep playing it over and over and listening to it.
I wish I could give you a hug!
You think you are the only partnered poly person who won't date anyone else who is partnered? Nope. Think again. Lots of people feel that way. It's not hypocritical - it's being realistic about the level of metamour entwinement, potential drama, other people's rules, and possible bullshit you are able or ready to handle.
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GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
The first week of back to school at work is kicking my ass. Let's just say we were not well prepared and leave it at that
Andy has been stressed out at work, too, so today I bought him a giant bouquet of sunflowers they are cheering me up, too!
Dag and I have had a couple of innocuous text chats the past few days. I'm happy to just be kinda sorta able to communicate without either of us freaking out.
Date night with Andy tomorrow, then meeting Renaissance for drinks Thursday. I've also worked up the nerve to start replying to some of the single dudes on okc. It's soooo hard for me to imagine they're interested beyond a quick NSA hookup, because... Well, because if I was single, I would focus on dating people who were available for more entangled relationships.
But that is something I need to stop doing, assuming everyone is thinking and feeling the way I do about things! So. If a single guy messages me despite the fact that I'm married, doesn't balk when I casually mention my husband in texts, and still wants to go out with me? I'm just going to take it at face value, that he'd like to have a drink or two and get to know me.
And if I'd rather spend my date nights with single guys than partnered ones, fuck it, I will. I'm not in any hurry to jump into another relationship, so if I'm wasting my time, well, it's mine to waste!
Andy has been stressed out at work, too, so today I bought him a giant bouquet of sunflowers
they are cheering me up, too! Dag and I have had a couple of innocuous text chats the past few days. I'm happy to just be kinda sorta able to communicate without either of us freaking out.
Date night with Andy tomorrow, then meeting Renaissance for drinks Thursday. I've also worked up the nerve to start replying to some of the single dudes on okc. It's soooo hard for me to imagine they're interested beyond a quick NSA hookup, because... Well, because if I was single, I would focus on dating people who were available for more entangled relationships.
But that is something I need to stop doing, assuming everyone is thinking and feeling the way I do about things! So. If a single guy messages me despite the fact that I'm married, doesn't balk when I casually mention my husband in texts, and still wants to go out with me? I'm just going to take it at face value, that he'd like to have a drink or two and get to know me.
And if I'd rather spend my date nights with single guys than partnered ones, fuck it, I will. I'm not in any hurry to jump into another relationship, so if I'm wasting my time, well, it's mine to waste!
dingedheart
Well-known member
A couple of things ....1) a good friend sent me this in regards to their own relationship and I thought it might help.
http://higherperspectives.com/friends-with-your-ex-1569436438.html?c=hp
2). Many single guys are commitment phobic and would just as soon wine, dine, have recreational sex and the send you home or go home alone.....let some other guy have the day to day bullshit. I myself think it's a perfect fit.
http://higherperspectives.com/friends-with-your-ex-1569436438.html?c=hp
2). Many single guys are commitment phobic and would just as soon wine, dine, have recreational sex and the send you home or go home alone.....let some other guy have the day to day bullshit. I myself think it's a perfect fit.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Any tips on how to spot these guys so I can run far, far away
In all seriousness... That is my fear, and the reason I've never dated single guys. If "commitment phobic" just means they don't want to get married or have kids, then cool. But if it means they don't want to deal with me if I'm having a bad day, or have to bother showing up for my birthday? Been there, done that, and all I have left are a bunch of his t-shirts
My other big worry about single guys is sexual health stuff. Obviously married poly guys might have just as many or more current partners. But usually someone who has been in a poly/open marriage is at least used to disclosing other partners and safe sex practices. I worry that single men will have a "none of your damn business" attitude.
And I worry about health stuff. Not irrationally, but it's a concern. I'd like partners who were honest about their sex lives, because that lets me make good choices for myself. Someone only has sex with me and their mono wife? Ok, fluid bonding is something I'd consider. If instead that wife had 3 or 4 other partners, I'd keep the condoms on. I'll admit there's also a point - if someone was constantly adding new partners, or having frequent one night stands with strangers - where I'd pass on sex entirely, condoms aren't 100%. So, yeah, stuff I'd like to know.
Spork
Active member
That point where you said you felt hypocritical for not wanting your partners to be partnered, is silly.
The bottom line is that we want what we want, and like what we like.
Having more restrictive opinions about what we will accept in a partner and what we will not, can simply make it more challenging to find acceptable partners. But whose business is that? Yours. No one else's.
I used to get really annoyed in a relationships forum where I used to post. Let a man say he wanted a "pretty" woman and people would go completely ape-shit on him. Demanding to know if he was attractive enough to "deserve" what he wanted in a partner. Who in the actual hell cares? Now if he is complaining/whining that his own particular brand of unicorn is proving to be elusive (unicorn meaning in this sentence, simply very specific perfect creature he's got in mind...lest anyone get hung up on semantics)...and being mad that the women he is interested in are "too picky" then he's being completely silly and a hypocrite.
Everyone is allowed to be as picky as they like. Though we all have to recognize that the more specific and numerous our criteria in partner-seeking, the narrower will be our field of possible results. But thems your dice to roll, no??
I like musicians. I'm not one. So what? I like partners who don't have kids and big financial problems. I have kids and big financial problems. That is WHY I prefer partners who DON'T have those things, because mine are challenging enough without adding more to it. So what? I don't think that makes me a hypocrite, I think it makes me realistic in seeing how heavy the load is already and not looking to make it worse.
The key is more a matter of figuring out what is REALLY the issue you may be looking to avoid... If DADT was the real problem, then I don't think it's necessary to avoid ALL married poly men. Just those who do DADT. For instance.
The bottom line is that we want what we want, and like what we like.
Having more restrictive opinions about what we will accept in a partner and what we will not, can simply make it more challenging to find acceptable partners. But whose business is that? Yours. No one else's.
I used to get really annoyed in a relationships forum where I used to post. Let a man say he wanted a "pretty" woman and people would go completely ape-shit on him. Demanding to know if he was attractive enough to "deserve" what he wanted in a partner. Who in the actual hell cares? Now if he is complaining/whining that his own particular brand of unicorn is proving to be elusive (unicorn meaning in this sentence, simply very specific perfect creature he's got in mind...lest anyone get hung up on semantics)...and being mad that the women he is interested in are "too picky" then he's being completely silly and a hypocrite.
Everyone is allowed to be as picky as they like. Though we all have to recognize that the more specific and numerous our criteria in partner-seeking, the narrower will be our field of possible results. But thems your dice to roll, no??
I like musicians. I'm not one. So what? I like partners who don't have kids and big financial problems. I have kids and big financial problems. That is WHY I prefer partners who DON'T have those things, because mine are challenging enough without adding more to it. So what? I don't think that makes me a hypocrite, I think it makes me realistic in seeing how heavy the load is already and not looking to make it worse.
The key is more a matter of figuring out what is REALLY the issue you may be looking to avoid... If DADT was the real problem, then I don't think it's necessary to avoid ALL married poly men. Just those who do DADT. For instance.
Yes, of course we can have criteria! I sure do. I want a man who is local, dependable, non-hierarchical, reasonably fit and attractive, careful to use condoms, and agreeable to have STI testing, not overly promiscuous, kind, mannerly, funny, a leftie, intellectual, non-Christian (I want pagans, atheists, cultural Jews), a nature and animal lover, into music and/or art, reasonably self aware, good at communicating clearly and without sarcasm or passive aggressiveness, available for dates at least once, preferably twice a week, and someone who returns texts in a timely manner.
He should be passionate, sensual, with a strong libido to match me. He should like to give oral sex as much as he likes to receive it. I'd like someone kinky enough to at least enjoy giving a good spanking and knows how to do it. He should be creative and imaginative when it comes to sex, as I like variety. I want a Toppy assertive lover, not a submissive.
If he's older, no struggles with ED unless he's able to use Viagra/Cialis successfully. If he's quite young, he must be mature for his age, educated (either college or self taught), with a job and a car.
I like someone taller than me (I'm 5'7") and a larger than average cock, but those are not deal breakers. Shorter men with average dicks can also work out very well.
Goes without saying he adores a woman with curves, and isn't looking for a super athletic skinny girl. Men that like me like a woman who knows what she wants and won't settle for less. Men that like me like a passionate sexual woman and enjoy pleasing as much as being pleased.
I will NOT date a DADT married guy, or a narcissist, a cheater, a unicorn hunter, or other creeps like that. I don't want a guy who is really on the hunt for a wife, and just wants me temporarily for a "good time." Bleh!
It's hard to find a guy with all these great qualities. I've only had a few relationships with men who meet most of these criteria, but I am willing to be patient and find the right one.
He should be passionate, sensual, with a strong libido to match me. He should like to give oral sex as much as he likes to receive it. I'd like someone kinky enough to at least enjoy giving a good spanking and knows how to do it. He should be creative and imaginative when it comes to sex, as I like variety. I want a Toppy assertive lover, not a submissive.
If he's older, no struggles with ED unless he's able to use Viagra/Cialis successfully. If he's quite young, he must be mature for his age, educated (either college or self taught), with a job and a car.
I like someone taller than me (I'm 5'7") and a larger than average cock, but those are not deal breakers. Shorter men with average dicks can also work out very well.
Goes without saying he adores a woman with curves, and isn't looking for a super athletic skinny girl. Men that like me like a woman who knows what she wants and won't settle for less. Men that like me like a passionate sexual woman and enjoy pleasing as much as being pleased.
I will NOT date a DADT married guy, or a narcissist, a cheater, a unicorn hunter, or other creeps like that. I don't want a guy who is really on the hunt for a wife, and just wants me temporarily for a "good time." Bleh!
It's hard to find a guy with all these great qualities. I've only had a few relationships with men who meet most of these criteria, but I am willing to be patient and find the right one.
PinkPig
Well-known member
I agree with everyone else. There is nothing wrong with wanting what we want. Actually, I think it's preferable. If we have a firm idea of what we'd like in a match, we're more likely not to waste our time dating someone who isn't really a good match for us, no matter how (cute, sexy, fun, funny, nice, smart, great at sex, etc) they are. That decreases the likelihood we'll have unnecessary heartache or drama and increases the likelihood we'll end up with someone who fits.
Reverie
Active member
Andy has been stressed out at work, too, so today I bought him a giant bouquet of sunflowers
Funny—I bought Rider a big bouquet of sunflowers this week too! They are his favorites and really brighten up the apartment!
Spork
Active member
In reading Magdlyn's response, it illustrates my thinking... I think it's wise to sometimes compromise on some of the more superficial elements. Like her "shorter man with an average cock." You can sometimes find great mojo in surprising packages. But it's the big stuff we learn the hard way, the life stuff, about what we need in a relationship and what is just going to bring problems...it's best to really know where we stand, and stick with it.
Regarding #1. First of all, I had someone tell me that my desire to be friends with my exes makes me a sociopath. I think he's wrong. And then I watched him part ways with a girlfriend in an explosion of tears and blood and high drama and I'm like really...this, is how it is "supposed" to be? They are poly, by the way, of the younger age-set I tend to avoid for reasons like THIS. I think a desire to be friends, or a desire to NOT be friends after a breakup, depends a lot on the person and how they view a person they are in a relationship with.
For me, many of my relationships ARE friends. The friendship is the most vital part of the interaction, period. Not sex or ownership or dependency of any kind. (The article mentions dependency, and I wish I could quiz the author to expand upon that thought.) So transitioning to friends, instead of shutting them out of my life utterly with a huff and a flounce, generally makes more sense to me. Though I suppose if you didn't value the person's friendship in the first place, and only valued them as "my girlfriend" or whatever label they had, you might kick 'em to the curb for tearing off their label. I dunno. I just don't feel that way.
2.) The way you put this is utterly tactless for this particular poster and blog. Claire does not want to be anyone's source of "recreational sex." And she doesn't want to share sex with anyone who isn't available to be supportive for her "day to day bullshit." There IS, believe it or not, a middle ground between "Let's get married and make babies!" and "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am." Once I realized that what I was after was something in that grey area, I started honestly communicating it to dates, and it was remarkably easy to find men who were pretty much on the same page.
Regarding #1. First of all, I had someone tell me that my desire to be friends with my exes makes me a sociopath. I think he's wrong. And then I watched him part ways with a girlfriend in an explosion of tears and blood and high drama and I'm like really...this, is how it is "supposed" to be? They are poly, by the way, of the younger age-set I tend to avoid for reasons like THIS. I think a desire to be friends, or a desire to NOT be friends after a breakup, depends a lot on the person and how they view a person they are in a relationship with.
For me, many of my relationships ARE friends. The friendship is the most vital part of the interaction, period. Not sex or ownership or dependency of any kind. (The article mentions dependency, and I wish I could quiz the author to expand upon that thought.) So transitioning to friends, instead of shutting them out of my life utterly with a huff and a flounce, generally makes more sense to me. Though I suppose if you didn't value the person's friendship in the first place, and only valued them as "my girlfriend" or whatever label they had, you might kick 'em to the curb for tearing off their label. I dunno. I just don't feel that way.
2.) The way you put this is utterly tactless for this particular poster and blog. Claire does not want to be anyone's source of "recreational sex." And she doesn't want to share sex with anyone who isn't available to be supportive for her "day to day bullshit." There IS, believe it or not, a middle ground between "Let's get married and make babies!" and "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am." Once I realized that what I was after was something in that grey area, I started honestly communicating it to dates, and it was remarkably easy to find men who were pretty much on the same page.
Reverie
Active member
That's fucked up that someone said that to you, Spork! I desire friendship (eventually, and at varying levels) with most of my exes and I totally agree with you that it has to do with the friendship itself being a large part of why I liked the person.
Now, if we broke up not because we grew apart and no longer have a lot in common? Well, it makes sense not to be friends, then. I have several exes in the "friendly acquaintance" camp that fall into that category. If we ran into each other in a bar, we'd have a beer together and pleasantly catch up, but we're not friends on Facebook and don't actively pursue the friendship. There is zero animosity, but also zero desire to expend energy on the person.
But if we still share common interests and can set aside the pain of the breakup long enough to forge an actual friendship? Why not?
Also, now that I've been poly for a few years, I've found that I've had a bunch of "in-between" relationships that were more than FWB but less than committed escalator-type LTR relationships. Often, those have started out as friendships and added the sexual/romantic aspects later on. To me, it makes no sense to torch the pre-existing friendship just because we had romantic and sexual feelings for one another at one point. In fact, I think it's a silly idea!
I will even acquiesce to friendly acquaintanceship with exes who have burned me badly, as long as enough time has passed that I've been able to see that they've changed, and as long as they have apologized. I have a couple exes in this camp, too.
Rider and I sometimes talk about how much it bums us out that exes that we felt like we had a solid friendship with inside the relationship no longer want to continue that friendship once the romantic/sexual aspect of it is over. I have two people like that, and thoughts of the first one still occasionally haunt me more than five years later, because we were true buddies in grad school before things ever turned sexual.
Of course, it is those people's right to not be friends if they don't want to be, but that doesn't stop the sting when I want it and they don't. I don't think it's pathological or unreasonable to want that. To EXPECT to get it, and to ACT OUT at the person, sure. But just to prefer it? I don't think so.
Additionally, the linked article says, "staying friends often results in more hurt feelings, jealousy, and anxiety." My guess is that the person is referring to when one's ex "moves on" with someone else. I think that poly people—who are often used to seeing their partners conduct relationships concurrently—are likely often better equipped to deal with this than people who have always been mono.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
I thought the same thing! There's also the suggestion of needing to "get over" an ex so that you can bond with a new partner ... Again, much less of an issue if you're used to juggling multiple relationships.
To each their own, but I'm much happier staying friends with exes than losing them from my life completely. In my pre-marriage days, it wasn't even an option to go no contact. Same college, same circle of friends, you simply couldn't cut an ex out of your life. When I look back at past romantic relationships, I have really warm, happy feelings about the ones that transitioned to friendships... And a lot of sadness and regret about the guys who disappeared from my life when we broke up. If Dag and I simply don't work as friends, I'll make peace with that, but I feel like it's at least worth a try.
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
I liked Magdlyn's summary of wants and needs in a partner, so I'm brainstorming my own...
1) brains!!! I cannot do dumb. Or even smart but uninterested in the world. Be curious, be passionate, be fascinated... I don't even care what about. But those people who just get up, go to work, come home and drink beer and watch tv and go to bed? Nope.
2)physical attraction
I have definitely have a type, but not in a "must check these boxes" way, just in the sense that I know what I'm usually attracted to. I'll still meet guys who fall waaay outside my usual, even though it's never panned out for me. Anyway, being physically drawn to someone is important.
3) sexual compatibility
I like dominant guys, but not necessarily capital d Doms, if that makes any sense. I do love feeling small and powerless and taken during sex. And I have zilch interest in being the powerful one or the dominant partner. Selfish or not, I don't want a second relationship where I'm not getting my sexual needs met. So finding someone who's a good fit for me in that way is important.
4) emotional availability
I have a great husband and lots of close friends, so I don't need a lot in the practical support department. I'm not going to call a boyfriend because my car broke down or whatever. But that doesn't mean I don't need emotional support. Sharing the bad as well as the good is part of what makes a relationship "real" for me. I need someone who will listen when I'm having a tough day, or make time to see me just because I need extra hugs. The tough part about this one is I'm bad about voicing this [note to self, work on that!] so I need my partners to not just accept but ENCOURAGE my leaning on them.
5) in person time
Texts and skype and such seem to be enough for a lot of people to feel connected... I am not one of those people! I need face to face time to feel close.
6) communication
Use your words, as we tell the kiddos at work! Not just about problems, but about the good stuff too. If i matter to you? If I make you happy? Tell me!
7) a metamour situation I can live with
Note that this one sounds kind of defeatist... Sigh.
I've had nothing but great experiences with Andy's friend-girls, but when it comes to the wives of men I've dated? Ugh ugh ugh. I'd take another DADT over the other shit I've had to deal with.
My thoughts on metamours are, I'll have whatever level relationship with them I would have if they were some random woman and not married to my boyfriend. If I think your wife is the best and I adore her? I'll be her friend just like I would if I'd met her under other circumstances. If she's nice enough but we don't really click? I'll show up for birthdays and the occasional group dinner and make conversation. If she's awful? I'm not going to hang out just because she's your wife, girlfriend, fwb, whatever. Sorrynotsorry. I'll be civil and polite if contact is unavoidable, but that's it.
8) must like dogs!
No joke, i treat my dogs like kids, and if that bugs you, don't bother.
1) brains!!! I cannot do dumb. Or even smart but uninterested in the world. Be curious, be passionate, be fascinated... I don't even care what about. But those people who just get up, go to work, come home and drink beer and watch tv and go to bed? Nope.
2)physical attraction
I have definitely have a type, but not in a "must check these boxes" way, just in the sense that I know what I'm usually attracted to. I'll still meet guys who fall waaay outside my usual, even though it's never panned out for me. Anyway, being physically drawn to someone is important.
3) sexual compatibility
I like dominant guys, but not necessarily capital d Doms, if that makes any sense. I do love feeling small and powerless and taken during sex. And I have zilch interest in being the powerful one or the dominant partner. Selfish or not, I don't want a second relationship where I'm not getting my sexual needs met. So finding someone who's a good fit for me in that way is important.
4) emotional availability
I have a great husband and lots of close friends, so I don't need a lot in the practical support department. I'm not going to call a boyfriend because my car broke down or whatever. But that doesn't mean I don't need emotional support. Sharing the bad as well as the good is part of what makes a relationship "real" for me. I need someone who will listen when I'm having a tough day, or make time to see me just because I need extra hugs. The tough part about this one is I'm bad about voicing this [note to self, work on that!] so I need my partners to not just accept but ENCOURAGE my leaning on them.
5) in person time
Texts and skype and such seem to be enough for a lot of people to feel connected... I am not one of those people! I need face to face time to feel close.
6) communication
Use your words, as we tell the kiddos at work! Not just about problems, but about the good stuff too. If i matter to you? If I make you happy? Tell me!
7) a metamour situation I can live with
Note that this one sounds kind of defeatist... Sigh.
I've had nothing but great experiences with Andy's friend-girls, but when it comes to the wives of men I've dated? Ugh ugh ugh. I'd take another DADT over the other shit I've had to deal with.
My thoughts on metamours are, I'll have whatever level relationship with them I would have if they were some random woman and not married to my boyfriend. If I think your wife is the best and I adore her? I'll be her friend just like I would if I'd met her under other circumstances. If she's nice enough but we don't really click? I'll show up for birthdays and the occasional group dinner and make conversation. If she's awful? I'm not going to hang out just because she's your wife, girlfriend, fwb, whatever. Sorrynotsorry. I'll be civil and polite if contact is unavoidable, but that's it.
8) must like dogs!
No joke, i treat my dogs like kids, and if that bugs you, don't bother.
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