It's a Texlahoma Story

So much of your "TMI" situation sounds like me. When I see Xena and Chops's posts on Facebook, it drives up the envy and competition in huge ways: mushy stuff, dates, you name it. And I'm right there with you on the "please don't share too much about us, either."

Partly, it's that I don't like the relationships to overlap much, other than social situations where they organically *would* overlap: family get-togethers, holidays, once-in-a-while things. I too prefer an organic approach to being friendly with metamours. If I like you, I'll *want* to hang with you. If I don't want to hang, don't push it. It bugs the crap out of me when it feels like Xena keeps trying to inch closer when I'm comfortable right where the hell I am.

The other (big) part is flat-out envy. Xena has an odd work schedule and no kids. Chops' daughter (who isn't grown) doesn't live with him. They have an awful lot of freedom to be spontaneous and just drop everything to go somewhere (although now his new job is farther away from his home with Xena, so maybe that's changing). During the week, Chops and I don't really get home until dinnertime. On the weekends, I have my kids. Not much time/ability to be spontaneous, especially now that school sports season is starting up. I had a mini-meltdown this weekend when Chops suggested we all pick up and go to the beach at 3pm when DanceGirl had homework to do, we still needed to eat at a reasonable hour, and get the girls back to their dad's (and... and... and...). We found a compromise and went to the beach after eating and letting DanceGirl have some homework time (and I like the beach at night, anyway), so it worked out, but I damn near plotzed because I can't be the "spontaneous one."

Sigh.

Anyhoo - my point before I took over your blog was that seeing the details of their relationship just pokes at a LOT of different emotions for me, and it's not altogether pleasant. I feel ya.

With Chops' other relationships, there really aren't any posts on FB to speak of, except a rare post here and there with Noa, so those emotions don't get poked at.

For me, it's not something that's going away (we've been doing this for 5 years, so I would hope if it *were* going away, it would have moved in that direction by now), so I try to manage it. I've asked for radio silence when I've needed it, I've "unfollowed" Chops' and Xena's feeds on FB during their anniversary weekend or other trips. And the rest of the time, the date stuff is few and far between so I can deal with it a bit better. It's not a hopeless situation, at least. :) I still get poked at from time to time (clearly), but it's not an endless stream of sharp sticks to the eye like it once was.

That said, it's definitely something you can talk to someone about if/when you get that close to someone again. It's not ridiculous to expect some level of privacy for your own relationship, nor is it ridiculous to enforce some level of privacy/respect for his other relationships.
 
First of all, I personally use the word "crazy" and I won't be stopping that. To me it refers to an extreme of mental illness where a person is not only dysfunctional and has a very hard time living but also to the point that they are harmful to those around them. Much like your family, and much like my ex. It is the degree of mental illness where you actually have a hard time feeling safe around them, or where they are demonstrably insane. Generally they are doing things that just are not ok.

EDIT: I just figured it out, the TL;DR version of my thinking with regard to "crazy" or "dangerous" etc.--it's the BEHAVIOR, not so much the condition or diagnosis. Usually behavior that makes a person feel unsafe around another person.

I am not talking about the gal I know with whom I can have perfectly normal conversations and she is able to work and travel and live normally, but she has anxiety disorders and has to catch herself obsessively pulling out her eyebrow and eyelash hairs. She is not "crazy" in my opinion. She has some issues, she's aware of them, and she self-manages in admirable and functional ways. She's actually the sort who WOULD seek help if she felt herself spiraling.

Most truly "crazy" people will not, in my experience, seek help for themselves. In fact that can be a pretty big part of the problem. They often hold a very strong delusion that they are NOT crazy, in any way. That what they are doing is somehow alright. Many have never been diagnosed with anything. But reasonable people will look at the way they act and just know, that isn't alright and anyone who thinks it's alright...ain't right!

I also watched my beloved Great Aunt (she was my biggest mentor and role model and one of my most loved and influential relatives) succumb to dementia, due to one of the conditions of old age that can cause it (not Alzheimer's, we don't think, but one of the other ones)...I'm not sure I'd use the word "crazy" there, because she was just gradually less and less herself. Her brain was physically deteriorating and at the same time, so was her very Self and personality, everything that made her...her. The last to go was her feelings, her emotions, and the horror of that is almost indescribable. She was trapped inside herself, able to respond emotionally to the world around her, but not logically. It wasn't crazy. It was just tragic.

So to me, "crazy" and "mentally ill" aren't necessarily synonymous.

And I totally understand about learning to define and state and defend your own needs and boundaries. I think it is entirely reasonable and wise to take the time to do that, and I think that you should be able to find a relationship where the sharing level is at a comfortable place, if you work out carefully to yourself where your boundaries and comfort levels exist so that you can discuss it with potential dates.

Oh, and even as an over-sharing fiend who doesn't care what anyone says about her (me) and who wants to know as much as possible about anyone...the wife contacting me immediately after the first contact from the man would bother me. Mostly on a level of, "Are you trying to manage his relationships for him? Can he not stand on his own and speak for himself?" I've actually known poly couples where the wife tried to procure and bait women to date her husband...and I find that squicky. I'd want to talk to her eventually, but let him speak for himself first, a while, jeez... I don't want to feel that my potential boyfriend is a little boy peeping at me from behind Mommy's skirts. That's weird.
 
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Apologies in advance if this post is all over the place... I took one of Andy's sleeping pills last night and it is still hanging around making me fuzzy headed :rolleyes:

I had a good talk with Dag last night. Well, dunno if "good" is the right word. Helpful. We have been texting every few days, just very low key, how are you, how's work, type stuff. Last night we kept having awkward pauses and he finally said something about it... I admitted that yeah, I was feeling the awkward too, we had a lot left unsaid, actually I'd written him a bunch of letters but never sent them! He asked to read them, so I emailed them. It was basically the things I've talked about here... The birthday hurt, the feeling poked at by the constant pics of him and his wife. The struggle to feel like what he gave me was enough, when I was constantly being exposed to what he gave to someone else.

He was very sweet about it, thanked me a lot for explaining... But you know, I don't think he really got what I was talking about. He seemed to think I was struggling with the fact that he was married, and not understand that I could be ok with his being married yet still want a fulfilling relationship with him. Sigh.

I feel better overall, though. I have lost the "if only I'd tried harder" feels. Dag simply sees some things as reserved for his wife and family, and some of those are things I really need to be happy, like birthday celebrations and time commitments. We could have talked and tried and pushed and compromised for years, but we never would have wanted the same thing.

Cried like a baby for hours after, needed to raid the medicine cabinet to get to sleep, but... I feel lighter today.
 
Something I'm struggling with as I dip my toes back into the world of dating...

What is a polite/non offensive/decent human being way to say, "I really don't want to talk about your wife thanks very much?" :confused:

I find that every poly guy I chat with on okc wants to talk about his wife/partner/girlfriend - and asks tons of questions about my husband - before we've even figured out if we are compatible enough for a coffee date.

I don't care if your wife has a boyfriend. I don't care what she does for a living. I don't care that she's a great cook. I maybe care a tiny bit that you have a "wonderful marriage!!!" but naive me takes that as a given based on the fact that you're, you know, still married. I definitely didn't need to hear all about it today.

I've tried changing the subject. "Oh your wife likes to cook? That's nice. I am more of a baker myself. What's your favorite decadent dessert?" "Well my wife makes this chocolate cake..." Ugh. No. Just stop.

And then there's the whole, "I'm just trying to respect your relationship" crowd.

A guy gave me his email address today and added "use it if your husband is ok with it". Dude, seriously? I'm an adult, I don't need permission to use the computer.

How about you respect ME and my ability to figure out, on my own, without the aid of any Y-chromosome possessing people, whether or not I'd like to email you???

I'm sure a lot of this is just figuring out whether my poly and someone else's poly are compatible. I just don't know when to keep trying vs when to throw up my hands and say no thanks. So far I have gone with the "no thanks" option as soon as somebody starts pushing my buttons. But I'm sure a lot of these guys are genuinely open to just dating ME, without having our spouses as virtual double dates... I need to figure out a way to say that's what I want, and I'm having a hard time with it :cool:
 
I would say it like this: "You know, Herbie, I'd like to get to know YOU first before you tell me all about your wife. It's great that you're happy and in a good relationship, but I won't know if I'd like to date you unless I know more about who YOU are. So, for now, I'm more interested in what makes YOU tick. We can talk more about our partners later on, if and when we do decide to meet. Okay, Herbie?"
 
Can I call them all Herbie??? ;)

So tonight, I tried to explain how I do poly to the "if it's ok with your husband" guy. I said that my husband and I keep each other informed about our dates/partners, but we don't need each other's permission, because we're grown ups. He was all, "Us too! I've already told Partner all about you!"

We've exchanged a half dozen okc messages. What the fuck is there to tell :confused:

I asked Andy if it bothered him that I don't tell him about every guy I talk to online. He was like, "Fuuuuck no, I get a headache just thinking about that." Our usual is to tell each other if there's somebody we're planning to meet in person. Sometimes if I'm really crushing on a guy, I'll mention him sooner. Once in a while, Andy will randomly bring up somebody he's chatted with on Fet or whatever. But there's certainly no expectation. I guess we are weird.

Also, Andy is bad with learning names if it's someone he doesn't talk to directly... Like, he doesn't have name issues with his work colleagues, but he can't keep track of mine, because he has never met most of them. So he has fallen into the habit of referring to guys I date as "New (Ex Boyfriends name)". For the first few weeks I was with Dag, Andy called him New Tyler. Now anyone I bring up will be New Dag, unless they last long enough for him to get used to the new name :rolleyes:
 
I always take the wife/husband talk and or the spouse contact as an attempt to assure me that this conversation isn't cheating and that his or her contacting me is not this persons attempt to escape a drama filled situation. I view it as a nice but newbie thing. ...kinda like an over eager puppy.
Then I say something like... I'm glad you are honest in your current relationships. I am looking to set up a relationship with x boundaries. ...here is what I need. One of those things is not to be filtering our interactions through your partner filter. If this is something ok with you then let's restart here. .. and explain my needs if said person has sparked enough interest. Otherwise I just say thanks and that that persons relationship style doesn't seem to mesh with mine.

Not sure if that is helpful but its how I handle the weird of online dating
I am glad you got some closure however painful with the dag breakup
 
And no you aren't weird. Lady and I rarely tell real about prospective dates until the day of and then he just knows we have a date. Actual people details occurs aroundthe time sex is a possibility then it's more about health type stuff. And meetings hppen when it fits or when it becomes important to someone. Real knows little about fox. I think we've all done trivia or drinks about 3 times in 3.5 years and those were times we all happened to be at the same place. Real met lady's ex once in the 2 years they were dating and has very little contact with her swinger friends that contact is mostly the no this isn't cheating part of the Swinger general protocol.
 
And no you aren't weird. Lady and I rarely tell real about prospective dates until the day of and then he just knows we have a date. Actual people details occurs aroundthe time sex is a possibility then it's more about health type stuff. And meetings hppen when it fits or when it becomes important to someone. Real knows little about fox. I think we've all done trivia or drinks about 3 times in 3.5 years and those were times we all happened to be at the same place. Real met lady's ex once in the 2 years they were dating and has very little contact with her swinger friends that contact is mostly the no this isn't cheating part of the Swinger general protocol.
 
Actually, I wonder if some of these guys talk about their wives so much because they're hoping you'll want to get it on with her, too.

You can tell them you're straight until the cows come home, but a lot of guys online are just looking for threesomes, and will say they're poly, but... maybe not so much. A lot of them just can't believe that a poly woman couldn't be convinced to want a threesome with them and their female partner eventually. With some you really have to very firmly tell them in no uncertain terms numerous times before they get it... but by that time, they might realize they've been blocked!

GirlFromTexlahoma said:
Can I call them all Herbie??? ;)
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Absolutely!

GirlFromTexlahoma said:
So tonight, I tried to explain how I do poly to the "if it's ok with your husband" guy. I said that my husband and I keep each other informed about our dates/partners, but we don't need each other's permission, because we're grown ups. He was all, "Us too! I've already told Partner all about you!"

We've exchanged a half dozen okc messages. What the fuck is there to tell :confused:
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Yeah, so did you ask him? "We've only exchanged a few messages - what could you possibly be telling her about me?" Man, I'd be very curious to know what he is saying to her.
 
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playfulgirl said:
I always take the wife/husband talk and or the spouse contact as an attempt to assure me that this conversation isn't cheating and that his or her contacting me is not this persons attempt to escape a drama filled situation. I view it as a nice but newbie thing. ...kinda like an over eager puppy.
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That's a good point. I don't usually worry about whether someone is cheating unless there are a ton of red flags - no pictures, won't give a real phone number, can only meet during the work day, stuff like that. But I know a lot of poly women are concerned, so guys are probably used to having to demonstrate their spouse is on board.

I still find the "wife wife wife" stuff annoying enough that I'm just "next!" when it happens, but knowing some reasons makes it easier to view it as incompatibility rather than being a dick.

nycindie said:
Yeah, so did you ask him? "We've only exchanged a few messages - what could you possibly be telling her about me?" Man, I'd be very curious to know what he is saying to her.
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I replied that it must get exhausting to keep each other updated on every okc message :p Which prompted a FLOOD of messages about how he's new to poly and LOVES the openness and honesty, and how AMAZING his partner was when he had his first poly date last week, and how WONDERFUL being poly has been for their relationship...

Playfulgirl totally called it with the newbie thing, in other words.

I'm sure he's a cool guy, but I'm not in the mood to be somebody's learning curve right now. Especially someone who embraced poly six months ago when they started dating a poly woman.

In better okc news, I've been having a blast chatting with a guy who's single but poly. Totally my type. Who knows if it will go anywhere, but damn, it's a relief to find intelligent life on okcupid!!!
 
I bet it's a relief.

Personally...and mind you I am still a newbie to polyamory, really, myself... I worry about DADT and the possibility of cheating. I had more than one guy tell me that he had some kind of a DADT thing going on, and a couple of them eventually in time revealed that actually, well, maybe, they sort of just assumed the wife kinda knew, had a feeling, that they had something going on, on the side...I mean...how can she not know right?...and she hasn't thrown him out, so it must be ok...

Dude. No.

So when I hear that a guy has his wife's permission to date but she doesn't want to know anything about it, that makes me nervous. Also, I'm just too damned extroverted. I love humans. I want to know All The People, and the more I know, the happier I am. So yeah, I'd be most comfortable meeting the wife, and hopefully being her friend if not more.

But I was thinking at one point, and I think I posted about it here on the forum but can't remember where... I think it would be a cool convention to have "permission videos." Like a guy gets a short vid of his wife saying, "Hi! If you're watching this, you're on a date with my husband! This video is just to let you know that yes, in fact we do have an open relationship and he isn't cheating. I'm not super comfortable with meeting his girlfriends, so thanks for respecting that, but you aren't a big bad secret or anything! Have a fun date!" Just something like that. And that way, if he WAS on a date and someone expressed doubts, he could just show the video and clear the air, and that would be that. Done.
 
Spork said:
And that way, if he WAS on a date and someone expressed doubts, he could just show the video and clear the air, and that would be that. Done.
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Only, I'd want to know the video isn't five years old ;)
 
Tinwen said:
Only, I'd want to know the video isn't five years old ;)
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And that it was his wife, yes, a wedding photo would help, and a statement of the date, sure. But just the idea though.

Anything would be better than just having to take some dude (that I just met on the internet)'s word for it.
 
I've been practicing poly for 7.5 years and I've never run into a guy who said he was poly but was actually cheating. I had one or two guys tell me they had DADT things, and that was their first and only date. I've had a couple guys tell me they can only date when their wife is out of town, and that was their first and only date. I really think the cheaters and sketchy guys are laughably easy to spot. I wouldn't need a message, much less a video, from his ostensible wife, giving me her consent to date her man.
 
I don't give a damn who my husbands date. I want no part of their relationships outside of the one I am involved in. There's no way in hell I want to meet nor be buddy buddy with their other partners. I am extremely choosy who I socialize with. To me a consent video from a partner for me is just freaking creepy.
 
Magdlyn said:
I've been practicing poly for 7.5 years and I've never run into a guy who said he was poly but was actually cheating. I had one or two guys tell me they had DADT things, and that was their first and only date. I've had a couple guys tell me they can only date when their wife is out of town, and that was their first and only date. I really think the cheaters and sketchy guys are laughably easy to spot. I wouldn't need a message, much less a video, from his ostensible wife, giving me her consent to date her man.
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I've only met ONE guy that told me he had a DADT thing, that I simply don't know...I question, but I think he is probably telling the truth.

(EDIT: The other few I met who said that at first, eventually capitulated and told me the reality was closer to cheating. After I explained that I wasn't ok with DADT. It was, "Well actually she doesn't know because it would really hurt her...and I want to get my needs met, but I don't want to hurt her. You understand, right?" Yeah. I understand that you're cheating. Nope!)

He and I still, on very rare occasion, talk online. Mostly because we share a mutual love of that band, GWAR.

He seems a really sweet dude and he says his wife has very serious medical issues, and that they talked, and she understands that he has needs she doesn't want to be a part of now, but that she finds it stressful to know anything about it when it's happening. Mostly he goes to swinger events as a single guy on the rare occasions that he feels a strong need, and occasionally he strikes up conversations with pretty women online just to talk to someone, because his role in his marriage is that of caretaker now, and he sometimes just wants some moral support. But he didn't pursue me very hard. He understood when I said that I wasn't comfortable with the DADT thing, he said he respected my reasoning but it wasn't worth hurting his wife, to have a new prospective partner meet her. Her comfort came first.

And that was that. He's been nothing but a friendly acquaintance ever since. The most we've talked about has been "Hey are you gonna be at that concert? Cool. Wish I could go." etc.
 
Dagferi said:
I am extremely choosy who I socialize with.
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Me too! The idea that dating someone means finding time to force a friendship with some random woman just because she's also dating him... No.

I generally look at metamours as the rough equivalents of my partners' college friends or second cousins. I'll meet them, sure. I'll show up for their kids birthdays or whatever if that's expected. I'll do the social norms thing.

But just like meeting your partner's cousins... You might hit it off and want to hang out with them all the time. You might be like, meh, I can tolerate seeing this person oncr in a while. Or you might just HATE them and never want to see them again, and barely be able to be polite on the rare occasions you can't avoid them.

I just need to have that choice, to say whether or not I want this meta in my life. If dating someone is going to ~require~ lots of meta time, nah, no thanks. I get to pick my own friends.

I also really hate it when a shared partner weasels out of the hard parts of poly by expecting metas to "handle it directly". Had an ex who did that, every scheduling conflict. "Why don't you just call C and you girls sort it out, and I'll go along with whatever you decide?" Dude, really???

This is the shit that made me eager to date Dag with his DADT ;)
 
I totally get it. I am the same way. When Butch tried poly for himself several years ago the women he dated suddenly wanted to be bffs. They wanted to text, Facebook friend, just push themselves into my world... no no no no no. I am a private person I want to pick and choose my own friend thanks. I didn't care how how far up the relationship escalator his relationships went. They could have planned vacations and holidays together. I just want to keep my own relationships separate. Butch had a hell of a time dating because he kept coming across women who wanted to be in my life too.

I am reluctant to date partnered/nested poly men. Again because their partners want more involvement in my life and relationship then I am willing to tolerate. So I tend to only date solo poly or monogamous men because it saves me so many headaches.
 
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