Polyamory, long distance...

[lolahaze]

So here's the context of the issue at hand:

There are 4 of us in this relationship; 2 women (Eve, Lizzie), 2 men (Tom, Adam).

I'm Eve. I'm with Tom only and not had another partner so far.
Lizzie is with Tom and Adam
Tom is with Eve and Lizzie
Adam is with Lizzieonly but has had casual things on the go at the same time being with B.

All Eve, Lizzie and Tom live in the same home country. Adam lives on the other side of the world.
Lizzie and Adam are in another country together right now to see how serious things are. They'll be there for a few months. Up until now they've been together for a few months only, most of which as a long distance relationship.

I'm in my home country with Tom until Christmas.

Tom will be travelling to the same country as Lizzie from Christmas til May. (Adam may or may not be there, not sure right now)

My issue here is that right now I'm dealing with an overwhelming sense of jealousy of what is going on between Lizzie and Tom which is also boosted by the fact that I seem to be a "dead end" in all of this by the fact I don't have another partner.

I feel jealous about the fact that Tom can make plans for his time overseas with Lizzie but upon asking him "what do you want to do here with me/friends/family before you leave" his response was pretty much "nothing really". I feel that this showed me an insight as to how much energy he's willing to put into his time here at home and with me compared to how much energy and thought he's giving to planning for the future. Until now Tom has insisted that his love for me and Lizzie has been equal but now I'm living in fear that it's tipping more in favour towards Lizzie .

We had to chat to set guidelines of exactly where we stand when Tom goes travelling.. I want to continue the relationship as I feel we're strong enough and that Lizzie and Adam are a good example as to how that can work (and he's only away for 4 months). Tom was open to it, but I really felt I'd talked him into it - as in, he didn't offer up that idea and until that point wanted to put things "on hold" (which to me is way too vague, confusing for future lovers and I felt like it was taking me for granted - as in I'd be sat here ready and waiting for him upon his return. Not to mention past relationships gone sour because "we were on a break")

So to keep things succinct here, here's the issues I'm confused with:

1. Is it normal to feel jealous of someones connection even if they're not physically together?
2. Are there ways to work through the jealousy?
3. Have any of you any ideas on how to keep a relationship going long-distance
4. Is it a good idea to be long distant in a poly relationship?
5. Is it best to keep things going long distance or to stop altogether?
6. How do I prepare myself for time alone whilst Tom and Lizzie are together?
7. What if whilst travelling out of "real life" leads Tom to believe I'm boring, stay-at-home "rock" partner who's no fun (I seem to be the one who has the most dis-ease around jealousy, paranoia and managing this whole polyamory whilst everyone else seems to be more prepared and has more experience) and that Lizzie is much more attractive?

I'm keeping in mind that I'm actively looking for someone else for me and that if/when I do find someone I don't want things to be unnecessarily complicated to the point it will detract them. I want to do what's best for me in the long run with the connection I have with Tom but without putting all my eggs in one basket assuming that he'll come back to me and his home country emotionally or physically (I've travelled lots so totally understanding how it can change someone entirely!!)

Hope this all makes sense..

Thanks in advance for your help x

 

[FallenAngelina]

If you would, lolahaze, please edit your post and use nicknames instead of letters. I believe that you have 24 hours to make changes. Nicknames enable most of us to follow your story, whereas letters make it difficult. You also might make up place names for the countries if you'd rather not say where you are. Having specific names of people and places to which to refer in discussion is very helpful for us.

Thanks

1. Is it normal to feel jealous of someones connection even if they're not physically together?

It doesn't matter whether people are next door or across the world, what matters are your own thoughts about people. Feelings are not dependent upon physical proximity. You can feel close to someone thousands of miles away and distant from someone in the next room. Jealousy, like all feelings, knows no bounds but your own thoughts.

 

[lolahaze]

Thanks Karen - all edited... Guess all my guards are up at the mo! You're perspective on jealousy is sound, thanks x

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Eve,

My observation is that long-distance relationships are often very difficult to carry on. I suppose part of the issue is whether it's very difficult to travel to where the other person lives.

Jealousy can crop up under all kinds of conditions, everyone's different. I know of several links you can visit to find out how to work through the jealousy:

Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.
How do you achieve compersion?

Jealousy and Insecurity
The Theory of Jealousy Management
The Practice of Jealousy Management

Jealousy and the Poly Family
Kathy Labriola: Unmasking the Green-Eyed Monster
Kathy Labriola: "First Aid" for Jealousy
Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

Hopefully that helps.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[FallenAngelina]

....the fact that I seem to be a "dead end" in all of this by the fact I don't have another partner.

7. What if whilst traveling out of "real life" leads Tom to believe I'm boring, stay-at-home "rock" partner who's no fun

There's lots to address in your post, but I'll zero in on these two things. Both are self-perceptions and stories that you have going about yourself, not "facts."

We all have enormous influence over how our relationships evolve because our self-perception is everything. If you are committed to seeing yourself as the "dead end" in the foursome, you are. The other people will cooperate and show this to you. Alternately, if you see yourself as "focused, self-possessed, passionate about XYZ other interests and solidly secure in your love relationship with Tom, not looking for others," then the other people will cooperate and show this to you. If you see yourself as the "boring, stay at home rock" partner, Tom will pick up on this and show you that you are. If you see yourself as the "focused, self-possessed, passionate about XYZ other interests and solidly secure in your love relationship with Tom, not looking for others," partner, Tom will pick up on this and show this to you.

Never, ever, ever look to anyone else to show you who you are unless you like what they are showing you. If you don't like what you see in someone else's eyes, don't ask them to change because it can't be done - not for very long, anyway - because other people can only show us what we believe is true about ourselves. You can contort yourself into all kinds of pretzels trying to ask for better behavior and trying to form this foursome into a configuration of your liking, but trying to orchestrate the cooperation of the others will yield very unstable results. Only you can change these stories that you've got going about who you are and when you do, everyone else will reflect your new self-image. Otherwise it's just a snake pit of uncontrollable jealousy, insecurity and longing.

Jealousy is not the problem, monogamy vs. polyamory is not the problem, physical proximity is not the problem. Your self-perception is at the heart of all of this.

 

[Magdlyn]

I thing Angelina always takes the "be cool with yourself and others will be cool with you thing" too far. Sure, it's important to have good self esteem, but you also have to take others' feelings and behaviors into account.

I'd feel shitty if my partner left me to go spend months across the world with another lover.

If your bf Tom is ignoring you now, you can be damn sure he'll be ignoring you when he's thousands of miles away with Eve.

Do you live together? How long have you been partners? Does he spend more hours a day or week dating, or now, texting, Skyping, cybersexing Eve, than with you? Does he refuse to date you? How is your sex life?

Are your needs being met? Do you need to ask specifically for more of his time? If you ask for more-- more dates, more time spent with your families, and he says, meh, whatever, you have a right to feel neglected. And envious of Eve, if she is getting things you want and aren't getting.

LDRs are hard when one is mono. Even harder when one is poly, and your partner is off to spend months with another.

You've got your work cut out for you. If he's slowly letting go of you to focus on Eve, you could read the handwriting on the wall and make a clean and permanent break. You don't have to be the rock, sitting at home, willing to be neglected until he's good and ready to come home to you. I can see why you feel like the boring unattractive one.

 

[FallenAngelina]

I'd feel shitty if my partner left me to go spend months across the world with another lover.

If your partner leaves you to go spend months across the world with another lover and you feel shitty about it, then:
1. you're not "cool" with yourself to begin with and
2. you're not in the right relationship and
3. asking your partner to change so that you can feel better is not going to bring any lasting improvement to your life.

You set the tone for how people treat you and how people see you. Everything emanates out from your own self perception and your own view on what life is all about. If you chronically feel boring and unattractive, not worthy of holding someone's interest, you'll get exactly that in your intimate relationships, no matter if someone is sitting on the couch next to you every night or whether he is halfway around the world. Circumstances never make us feel this way or that, our self-perception and our inner stories do. Efforts to change others and circumstances yield paltry results compared to the monumental and enduring improvement we can gain from changing how we see ourselves.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Tom will be traveling to the same country as Lizzie from Christmas til May. (Adam may or may not be there, not sure right now)

My issue here is that right now I'm dealing with an overwhelming sense of jealousy of what is going on between Lizzie and Tom which is also boosted by the fact that I seem to be a "dead end" in all of this by the fact I don't have another partner.

I feel jealous about the fact that Tom can make plans for his time overseas with Lizzie but upon asking him "what do you want to do here with me/friends/family before you leave" his response was pretty much "nothing really". I feel that this showed me an insight as to how much energy he's willing to put into his time here at home and with me compared to how much energy and thought he's giving to planning for the future. Until now Tom has insisted that his love for me and Lizzie has been equal but now I'm living in fear that it's tipping more in favour towards Lizzie .

Of course, almost anyone would feel upset looking at their partner doing all of this, but my point is that there is a whole lot leading into this. The overwhelming jealously is screaming to you loud and clear that there's an awful lot that you do not like here. You can try and assuage the jealousy but I guarantee that it won't go away because it's coming from a wise place in you that knows perfectly well what it's doing. Instead of focusing on how Tom may or may not be losing interest in you, asking Tom to change his behavior so that you can feel better, think about having one talk with him for that carrot we all chase after (reassurance) and then turn your focus onto how this situation is showing you yourself. People always and only show us what's going on inside of ourselves, that's why asking for reassurance and behavior change gives us short lived satisfaction. That's how a person comes to feel like a bad addiction to us. That's how we come to feel like we are on a roller coaster of emotions. The lasting and stable way to improve an unsettling relationship (or to maintain a good one) is to have your own self as your main resource of well being. Some people feel that spiritually, some people feel that by being quite physically active, some people find that by writing regularly - the point is that all people who are in good relationships are people who basically feel good about themselves, no matter what is going on and no matter what things look like to others. That's why some people seek out and thrive in poly relationships and some people have a "humiliation" about it (as is evidenced in another current thread.) Poly, LDRs, lovers as domestic partners, lovers in far off places with another: these are all but circumstances and in and of themselves to not make a person feel one way or another. A person has a web of attitudes, associations and pervasive thoughts that always bring about the circumstance that reflects them. If you don't like what you see going on around you, certainly you can (and often effectively) change your circumstance, but positive and lasting change only and ever comes from you knowing what you want and standing proudly as your own source of well being as you take action. Moving people and behaviors around like chess pieces in the hopes of feeling better will not get you there.

Your emotions are essential in identifying what's working for you and what is not. "Communication" can be a beautiful moment in a relationship, propelling everything forward to better and higher places, but talking with partners about the relationship is not the cornerstone of a good partnership; self possession is. Knowing yourself, standing proudly in who you are, providing your own sources of well being, spending time with authentic friends who fill you up, having activities that feel fun and genuinely engaging, walking around with a sense that while nobody is "perfect," you are a pretty cool chick who is an asset to the world. Who you feel yourself to be is always the foundation of your relationships. Always.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words so I know I got it how you meant it. You correct me if I get it wrong, ok?

CAST

(you + [Tom) + {Lizzie] + Adam}

This is an “N” with Tom and Lizzie as the two hinges.

You and Adam are “endpoints” on the N.

• Adam has other casual relationships and B.
• You are not seeing anyone right now, but would like to date someone else

​

GEOGRAPHY

• Part of all this has been LDR. In the recent past, it used to be Adam was the LDR guy and the rest were here in this country. It was 3 here and 1 over there.
• At this present time, Lizzie and Adam are in another country. So it is 2 here in this country and 2 over there.
• In the near future, Tom is planning on joining them in that country. He will be over there for 4 months.
• So now instead of Adam being the LDR person and the rest together over here? It will soon change. You will be here as the new LDR person. It will be 1 and 3.

RESPONSIVENESS

You sound like you want reassurance, and perhaps some “before care,” some “during care,” and some “after care” from Tom. Not getting the firm reassurance or even the firm responsiveness you would like.

Before care:

You ask “ what do you want to do here with me/friends/family before you leave” since you want to spend some qulaity time together before he goes.

He says, "nothing really".​

During (theoretical LDR) Care:

You wanted to know where the relationship stands while traveling.
You want to continue the relationship as you feel you are strong enough to deal with LDR. Tom is open to that.
You think you talked him into it. He didn't offer up that idea and until that point wanted to put things "on hold."

(Suggested Solution: If you actually don't prefer LDR? And don't like "on hold?" You could suggest to Tom that you break up at Xmas, and then figure out later when he comes back if you want to get back together or not. Then just enjoy the time you have left. )​

After Care:

Up in the air, because you don't know how this relationship with Tom stands.

(Suggested Solution -- clear that up. Sounds like you want to know for sure what's going on. So CREATE you own stability/security by sorting it out. )​

​

ADDITIONAL DATA

You want to date someone else.
You want to stay open to the idea of continuing to date Tom, but you don't want to limit yourself to Tom and “put all your eggs in one basket.”
You don't know that Tom will want to get back together when he comes back from his trip and don't like being "on hold."

(Fair enough. Date how you please. But it seems to point toward "break up at xmas, see if we get back together later" to me.)​

ISSUES

1. Is it normal to feel jealous of someones connection even if they're not physically together?

I think so.

Though I think you mean envy. Tom is giving a lot of thought, planning and attention to the trip to be with Lizzie. You perceive that as Lizzie having something you want for yourself: Tom's attention. That's envy to me.

Jealousy to me is when you have something you are worried someone else will take away. I don't think Lizzie can take Tom away. Only Tom can take Tom away. If you are feeling jealous because you think Tom is doing the vague "on hold" thing because he is planning a "soft break up" later? You could ask him about that and just resolve all that before he leaves so you can stop feeling on edge.

2. Are there ways to work through the jealousy?

Kevin posted a lot of good links.

I would suggest you not ADD to the load by doing "down talk" where you call yourself names. For instance, being an "N" endpoint is not a "dead end" like you are useless or something. What's that all about? Being an "N" end point is just being an "N" end point. It describes your role in a particular grouping. It does not describe your value as a person.

Deciding what to do about this Tom thing (LDR? Break Up?) is one load to process.

Don't need to make it "double load" by being your own self bully.

3. Have any of you any ideas on how to keep a relationship going long-distance

There's skype, care packages, phone, and so on.

But me? I've done it twice and I hate it. No amount of tools to bridge the distance will do for me because I like local and I HATE LDR.

I accept that about myself and solve it by just not getting into LDR things in the first place. I'd rather deal with a break up bummer (which has a definite end point for me) than have this long, drawn out, ongoing angsty thing for the duration of the LDR.

When all choices stink to me? I rather have stink with an firm endpoint than never-ending ongoing stink.

I avoid seeing people with LDR kinds of jobs -- like military for instance. Not because military people can't be nice or anything. But because the nature of their job means they are away a lot and I hate LDR. I accept and work with my personal limitations, rather than against them. Would be the same thing being a day shift worker and trying to date a night shift worker. Sometimes personalities can be compatible, but time available for dating is just not.

4. Is it a good idea to be long distant in a poly relationship?

You have to decide how YOU feel about LDR things and if they are something YOU can deal with or not. Some people enjoy them.

5. Is it best to keep things going long distance or to stop altogether?

This is only something you can decide.

But my impression in your case is that you might be happier breaking up at xmas for now. That avoids the "on hold" thing he wants to do that you do not like.

You sound like you were trying to avoid the "on hold" thing before by suggesting LDR, but you don't sound all that crazy about LDR, to be honest.

6. How do I prepare myself for time alone whilst Tom and Lizzie are together?

What is different about it than being on your own before Tom was around?

You still have to do your stuff -- sleep, eat, chores, work, etc. Treat it like normal every day life. Which it is. Don't build it up to be a THING in your mind. Then be all stressed about the thing you built up.

7. What if whilst travelling out of "real life" leads Tom to believe I'm boring, stay-at-home "rock" partner who's no fun (I seem to be the one who has the most dis-ease around jealousy, paranoia and managing this whole polyamory whilst everyone else seems to be more prepared and has more experience) and that Lizzie is much more attractive?

Well, if you chose to go LDR, and while away he decides he wants to break up? You have an LDR break up. You can handle it.

The more troublesome thing here to me seems to be you doing "down talk" again and cranking your own anxiety up with it.
You could do more "I can handle things that come up in my life, I can find ways to cope" self talk instead to combat the "down talk."

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

If your partner leaves you to go spend months across the world with another lover and you feel shitty about it, then:
1. you're not "cool" with yourself to begin with

No. I could be very cool with myself. So self aware and loving to myself I know I deserve more from a relationship than crumbs, while he's delivering the whole meal to his latest NRE crush.

2. you're not in the right relationship

Correct.

3. asking your partner to change so that you can feel better is not going to bring any lasting improvement to your life.

Yes. I don't expect anyone to change for me. But I could expect someone to talk things over, let them know my needs and desires, and have more to say than "Meh. OK, I got things to do. Later!" If they won't, I'd dump them.

You set the tone for how people treat you and how people see you. Everything emanates out from your own self perception and your own view on what life is all about. If you chronically feel boring and unattractive, not worthy of holding someone's interest, you'll get exactly that in your intimate relationships, no matter if someone is sitting on the couch next to you every night or whether he is halfway around the world. Circumstances never make us feel this way or that, our self-perception and our inner stories do. Efforts to change others and circumstances yield paltry results compared to the monumental and enduring improvement we can gain from changing how we see ourselves.

I don't disagree. But, I still hold to the FACT that one's partner must be willing and able to meet my needs and desires (most or many of them), or it's not a relationship, it's being used as a toy and put back on the shelf.

Focus on oneself is good and necessary. I don't disagree with that. However, I can only reiterate it takes two to tango.

Being poly, a benefit is that one lover can meet X amount of my needs, another can meet X amount, and friends, family (or a third or fourth lover, if you can handle that) can meet others. But any lover or friend that can only meet a tiny amount of my needs, and treats me like shit (with disrespect or neglect) the rest of the time? Deleted from my life.

I have certain requirements for those that wish to be in my life. It's been trial and error to ascertain what they are, and what behaviors are deal breakers. However, I have never suffered fools gladly. I insist on respect, kindness, intelligence, attractiveness (good grooming), a decent degree of self awareness, well read and well traveled, left leaning politics, excellent communication skills, humor, and last but not least, strong sex drive with kinkiness. A sapiosexual partner will have a willingness, or indeed a need, to see me as a whole person, more than just a fucktoy.

I guess you could argue the qualities I require in my lovers are things I have nurtured and developed in myself, and I want someone like me!

Sometimes we settle for less because a few great qualities outweigh the bad. But we need to know when it's time to pull the plug even if it's a borderline "baby out with the bathwater" situation. Even if it means being alone with no lover for a while... We use our single time alone to see what went wrong with the last relationship and affirm what we really need in the next partner.