Pulling the plug

Amethystsparrow

New member
Hi everyone,

In the beginning you all were insightful about my attempted triad relations with Sunshine, and you still are and I am seeking your help again, maybe for the last time or leading up to the ending.

I have been an emotional wreck. Sunshine and Snarky have had big arguments, arguments that I was dragged into and atop of red flags flying high my emotional and mental wellbeing has gone out the window. My concerns had been rebuffed and disregarded and I simply am not made for poly, not with Sunshine's demeanor. She has become needy, clingy and disregards the other partners feelings when we are being open, clear and communicating. It has gotten to the point my therapist has great concern for me and feels that having a poly relationship of this nature is making matters worse for me. Snarky is in a constant drained state, he's vacant and devoid of emotion after she has her moods, she does not apologize and his time with our daughter is being affected by it. As for me, I can't do this, my therapist stresses this is not good for me and I've had a total of 2 big melt downs in the span of a few days between. I cannot stress enough that I have tried everything, and I am tired..so very tired. On top of that I am not being heard, I have been trying to tell everyone that I am on the breaking point, that I needed to back out of this and how unhealthy the relationship is getting yet I would be rebuffed and it was pushed off as " oh, it's just her hormones" when no, I was literally internally screaming for help and to stop this, I am not ready, they are not ready and in the short span of 2 months everything kept blowing up. Arguments, tiffs, emotions on all sides leading to internal emotional mayhem and my breakdowns.

Sunshine is out at work, and it was Snarky I told first and had asked him to give me time to calm down before talking to sunshine..he did not give me that time and I was forced to tell her over the phone. She would not listen to me, and the fact my mental and emotional health wasn't enough to show her this had to stop, she kept demanding more reasons then that, despite telling her about the therapist, despite telling her how I break down and am on the brink of breaking. It's not enough. I beg of everyone, what more can I do? I want off this derailing train, so so badly! I haven;t slept, I haven;t eaten and I am shaking..I see my therapist monday, but I need help to show her that this really is bad and it must stop.
 
I am sorry :(
Can you take a vacation right now? Leave for a few days just to regain strength?
 
I am planning on it, my husband is away at work and Sunshine is also. I expect the meeting to be awkward and I am uneasy about it, but I have to stick to my guns and if necessary will have my therapist write up documents to explain the problems and ailments this whole endeavor has given me. If they are still ( mainly my husband) not taking this into serious account, my daughter and I will be staying elsewhere. For the time being I have two amazing friends over who I have great support from, hopefully tomorrow I'l have regained my strength and stamina to keep on this hard path of ending this unhealthy relationship. It is for the best not only for me, but both my husband and Sunshine, she needs someone of her own to dote on and have all to herself, we can't fit her demands and I can't emotionally or mentally shoulder everything. We tried, and as someone on here said ' Just because one can do something, doesn't mean it will work.'
 
Just know, it is over the minute you say it is. She can whine, she can question, she can rail against you all she likes. You are not obliged to stay there and listen to it, nor are you obliged to address her questions in any way. You need to take care of you, and if that means simply walking into the room with her and Snarky in it, saying, "this triad is over and done with - I'm not willing to be part of it any longer", and then leaving, then do not feel bad about it. Neither of them get a say as to your continued involvement. If they wish to continue seeing each other, then that is another matter. I would suggest you give yourself a break of quite a few days before you and Snarky hash out what your new agreements would be together if he wants to be in a V with the both of you. You might need some time of complete radio silence from Sunshine, and he needs to be able to respect that and understand that he cannot expect any support from you if he is struggling with something to do with their relationship.

Sending strength. Breaking up always sucks, but take it step by step. If you are not ready to justify your decision (or they are not ready to hear your explanations) then simply don't offer any. You can always come back to it in a few days when you feel stronger.
 
I beg of everyone, what more can I do? I want off this derailing train, so so badly! I haven;t slept, I haven;t eaten and I am shaking..I see my therapist monday, but I need help to show her that this really is bad and it must stop.

You need to show yourself that this is over, not her. You've got a raging conflict about this, otherwise there would be no issue and she would "hear" you. Your words say one thing, but your demeanor says quite another. That's what your "breaking point" is all about. You won't actually break, but you feel as if you might because you've got a war going on inside yourself. The conflict is in you. If you were 100% sure of your feelings to end this, you would not be needing her to assist you in departing, you would just get off the train. Take your focus off of her (even for just a few minutes) and focus on gathering your thoughts around how you can get more solid and steady. You don't need get Sunshine or anyone to see things your way in order to separate from this situation. All you need is your own solidified, fortified resolve to do what is right for yourself and for your own mental stability. You do not need anyone else's cooperation to make that happen and in fact, they won't cooperate until you make that happen. Your self respect is the only force you need. Truly.


I expect the meeting to be awkward and I am uneasy about it, but I have to stick to my guns and if necessary will have my therapist write up documents to explain the problems and ailments this whole endeavor has given me. '
This is just feeding the illusion that it's about proving to them what you need. It's not. It's about your conflicted emotions and nothing else. You are never at the emotional mercy of someone else unless you put yourself there. This is about you and what is right for you.
 
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I must agree with FallenAngelina entirely.

Again, as I've recently said elsewhere, poly relationships are no different than mono ones in most ways. When you were single, did you feel like you had to "prove" to someone that dating them was bad for you if you wanted to break up? Hopefully not! It's no different here. You don't wish to date Sunshine, so don't. End of story.

I suspect, though, that what you really mean isn't just that you don't want to date Sunshine, but that you don't want Snarky to, either. If I am right, that is a very different thing. It seems like you're hoping to achieve this by "proving" that him dating her is bad for you, rather than just having an honest conversation about you not wanting him to date her and figuring out how your relationship shape with Snarky progresses once that is out in the open (and, if I remember your other post correctly, you wanted a triad or nothing at all and you have veto power). You don't need a medical reason to not want a triad, but I'm guessing that you are hoping that a medical reason means he will leave Sunshine, as well. I suspect that you're worried that either 1) he will pressure you into continuing the triad (which would not be a loving action on his part, and kind of icky), and/or 2) that he'd want to date her on his own, and you don't want him dating someone you're not also dating (which he already knows, and so his only options are to give one of you up or try and force the triad).

To build upon that, Sunshine already knows, I believe, that it's an all-or-nothing triad option, and is scared of losing Snarky, so she's become insecure and volatile. I could be wrong--she could just be like this all the time, no matter what; but, generally I have found that things are rarely that simple. If the triad ends, you still (theoretically) get Snarky, a person to grieve the end of your triad with, and things, essentially, go back to where they were before her. If the triad ends, Sunshine gets left with none of these things. And, she has literally zero control over if that happens or not, regardless of how her relationship with Snarky is going. She is totally at the mercy of another person (you) to determine if she gets to continue her romantic relationship, and how it progresses. It's a vulnerable position, and can definitely impact one's self-esteem and actions.

Have you and Snarky attended couples therapy, with a therapist who isn't your therapist? It sounds like there's not a lot of safe space or skill for communicating honestly, and that is going to continue to cause issues.
 
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As for me, I can't do this, my therapist stresses this is not good for me and I've had a total of 2 big melt downs in the span of a few days between. I cannot stress enough that I have tried everything, and I am tired..so very tired.

Then stop. Just don't do anything any more.

You have tried everything but simply stopping and removing yourself. So go ahead and remove yourself. Focus on REST and attending to you. Stop trying to attend to all other people. You are burning out.

I expect the meeting to be awkward and I am uneasy about it, but I have to stick to my guns and if necessary will have my therapist write up documents to explain the problems and ailments this whole endeavor has given me. If they are still ( mainly my husband) not taking this into serious account, my daughter and I will be staying elsewhere.

It is over for you when you say it is over and you stop participating. Your consent to participate belongs to YOU. If you choose to withdraw your consent and stop participating in this so you can better attend to your mental and emotional health? That's a good reason to stop doing something.

You do not owe anybody any further explanation. You do not need to have your therapist write you notes to "be proof." Your word is enough. If you say you don't want to do something any more and are leaving the company? You don't want to do it any more. You have decided to leave the company.

That is ENOUGH.

If you do not want to have this meeting? Do not attend. You have left the company. You no longer have to attend company meetings. Keep it simple on you. Could simply move on to the next part: take daughter and stay elsewhere.

Do the actions that promote healing. Not the actions that promote more damage. You could ask yourself "Does doing X ADD to my healing? Or take away from it?"

To me it sounds like this meeting would not be healing for you. It would be more stress load to your pile. So... skip it. You have said everything before already. Why repeat it? Move on to action.

Husband will either decide to continue with her or not on his own. You and husband will decide if you still want to be together or disband later on. Possibly depending on what he chooses to do about her. One thing people sometimes forget when attempting polyships -- a break up doesn't necessarily "automatically go back to originals." Sometimes people regroup in different forms or everyone ends up single.

But that is stuff to sort out later down the road when you have recovered some of your health. It can wait. You on the verge of having a break down? That's the urgent thing to attend to NOW. Right now you need to get the pot OFF the boil and attend to your health. I think that trumps attending to poly things or marriage things.

Make your health #1 priority. Take the kid and stay elsewhere. Take a break, cool off, get away from all this provoking stimulus. Then at least you and child will be OUT of the line of fire and can work on healing. That's a better place in which to linger, IMHO. The healing place. Lingering in the tumult? That's not a good place to linger. Get out of the tumult. Your health comes first. YOU are responsible for looking out for it. Not other people.

Stop asking people to consider your health and change their behavior that hurts you. You can change your own behavior instead. Get away from the hurtful people and get you out of the line of fire. They can keep on flapping around, but then you aren't getting dinged. You have put some healthy distance between you and them.

If staying elsewhere is not enough? If you need to make childcare arrangement and check into hospital? Make arrangements to do that. Ask your friends for help with childcare. Take the baby steps toward your healing.

You have already told her you are done. If you have to, say simply one last time. "I don't feel great here. I am bowing out of this triad. Do not contact me. If you do, you can expect no response." Then just block her email and phone and stop participating.

Attend to YOU. Stop attending to other people. Let the chips fall where they may.

Galagirl
 
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Everyone thank you,

I'm feeling a little better today, as i have friends who are in town to be with me during this time. I have also kept things from you, which I must share in order to show the bigger picture of why this poly needs to end, even though my health and unhappiness should be more than enough to bow out. 2 years ago i lost my son to a drowning accident, hence why I see a therapist at all. In that span of time I was making progress in healing and progressing forward, enough to believe that poly was a wonderful idea with how we flourished together. However that was as friends, in the short span of 2 months things have declined rapidly from the positive start. The red flags from my first post on here resurfaced and were being enacted; no protection or contraception, looking for bigger houses, moving her in ( which is going to be likely problematic) talking about getting pregnant in a few months, all in a span of 3 months! On top of the blow outs and the emotional upstarts I began to decline. Was it reckless to start? Yes, but at the time it seemed ok. Please, do not scold me at this time. Please just know that overall this was not meant to be. Sunshine needs to move forward and find someone who meets her needs.

I talked with my husband this morning and he understands where I am, and now is grieving what could have been...I feel terrible for him, but the reality is this would have gotten worse and a child in the middle of it when all I wanted was to slow down and have caution. I am in no way shape or form capable of doing this, and I will have to find my strength to carry him through too.
 
I am sorry to hear of your son's drowning.

I am glad you are feeling better today.

I am in no way shape or form capable of doing this, and I will have to find my strength to carry him through too.

Overloading you less than before is still overloading you.

You seem to expect you to carry your husband through his grief process even though you are mentally and emotionally wrung out and bone dry.

I would respectfully suggest that you could change your expectations of yourself.

You could expect you to take care of your health first, then when your gas tank is healthy and full, you are free to gift your help to others.

Is your gas tank full right now? Nope. So cannot help him at this time with his load. (Willing but not actually able) is not (willing and able.) Stretching yourself too thin is what leads to burning out. You could learn to guard against that, learn to conserve energy, and learn to only operate out of "full gas tank" when you choose to help others.

You could expect him to carry himself through and fill his own gas tank. He could get his own therapist to support him. Just as you have yours.

Galagirl
 
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I am in no way shape or form capable of doing this, and I will have to find my strength to carry him through too.

I'm so sorry for your deep loss. I echo GG's caution that it's not your work to prop up your husband, nor can you, really. You seem to have solid emotional support and your therapist will certainly address this with you. Good thoughts to you both.
 
Hi Amethystsparrow,

I'm sorry to hear that you cannot prop up this triad anymore. It seems to me that Sunshine expects you to do all the work, while Snarky is oblivious to the overall situation. Don't depend on Snarky/Sunshine to help you figure out how a breakup would work, just break up and lean on your therapist to help.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.
 
Update and in need of more advice

Hello everyone,

I value every one of you greatly and I hope all are well.

Things got ugly, however they are progressing in the right direction slowly. A lot of negative things were said about me in which I feel wronged, I wish I could recap on all of them to give a clear picture of events but my brain is so burnt out I can only focus on the more recent events.

After I explained how it was getting, it DID take my therapist for them to pay attention and I thank the universe my best friends from out of state came to see me, they couldn;t have come at a better time. Sunshine was being emotionally manipulative and would not accept my reasons, so much she has still latched onto my husband and has completely blocked me off, this makes me uncomfortable. My husband confided in me that he had contemplated leaving me, this derailed me but he is choosing to stay with me. He said our 11 years shouldn;t be just thrown away and he wants us to work, however he doesn;t want to cut sunshine out of his life he 'needs' her and wants to be friends. I do trust him, but her I do not. Even now she is on the phone sobbing to him and begging him to go out places ( I peeked on his phone and sure enough she asks to go secluded places with him..) I feel this person has preyed upon me and my husband, with your guidance I can confidently say that she isn;t a poly person but someone who utlized it as a tool to wedge between my husband and I. Evidence is clear enough;

1. refuses to acknowledge that my mental and emotional health was enough to stop.

2. things going far too fast at a dangerous rate and my concerns and asking for it to be stopped only verbally acknowledged but overall disregarded for her gain.

3. Blaming me for the break up and saying i lied and used her ( not the case, i sacrificed my emotions and mental wellbeing to make her happy and try to make it work.)

4. Emotional manipulation- attempting to get me to back pedal and give her what she wanted.

5. all my family members confided that it was her they did not like and she had been stalking and vying for my husband since 2014 and they had been watching her for a while.
I need to know what to do
 
I am sorry you deal in this.

I see that you are upset with Sunshine and list your reasons. Do these reasons also apply to you husband? Because to me they seem to.

1. refuses to acknowledge that my mental and emotional health was enough to stop.

He wants to be "friends" with you tormentor. How's that work? Do you respect him doing this?

2. things going far too fast at a dangerous rate and my concerns and asking for it to be stopped only verbally acknowledged but overall disregarded for her his gain.

Well... You voice concerns, he ignores you. Doesn't sound different than Sunshine.

3. Blaming me for the break up and saying i lied and used her ( not the case, i sacrificed my emotions and mental wellbeing to make her happy and try to make it work.)

You still seem to be sacrificing for husband to "make the marriage work" while he's doing stuff that takes away from the marriage stability.

4. Emotional manipulation- attempting to get me to back pedal and give her what she wanted.

First tells you he thinks of leaving you, so you freak out.

Then says he doesn't want to throw away 11 years and wants to work it out... so you feel hopeful and eager to placate/keep it going.

Then he still keeps going with the Cowgirl.

Is he backpedaling? Manipulating?

I could be wrong. But it sounds like he tells you whatever to get you off his back. And he gets what he wants -- he's still the hinge, he's still has both partners. Maybe even better -- now fighting each other for him. That could be an big ego trip for some personalities. They enjoy being "fought over."

I need to know what to do

Well, you already ended it with Sunshine. It may feel hard, but you ARE making progress. Her upset is hers to manage. You no longer have to answer emails or phone from her.

Now you can decide what to do about marriage. I think you could put your foot down and withdraw consent. You are no longer up for this. Your mental and emotional health comes first.

  • You could go with your kid and your friends to stay elsewhere. You suggest husband think about what he wants to do about the marriage. (Make sure you have your own bank account an money to live on. People get weird.)

  • You tell husband if he prefers to leave the marriage, you are willing to start talking about disbanding on X date and make divorce/custody arrangements. Then he is free to go off with Sunshine or someone else or be single or whatever it is.
  • If husband wants to continue in the marriage? Define your conditions so he is aware of what they are and he can determine if his preferences are/are not compatible with your preferences for marriage.
    • Tell him you expect him to know that you are NOT up for a triad with Sunshine. You want her out of your lives.
    • You are/are not up for any more poly down the line.
    • You are/are not willing to start marriage counseling on X date and being repairs
    • You do/do not expect Closed marriage for a time to make marriage repairs.

Now he can make his next choices from a place of full information. You have told him where you stand. Sit tight, wait, and let the chips fall where they may.

If he's not up for continuing the marriage under those conditions, and does not make any palatable counter-offers? Then best disband. You guys are no longer compatible. You guys cannot be married to each other and be healthy. You have conflicting wants. So if you are putting your health first? You let the marriage go because participating in the marriage in the way he wants damages your health.

It requires emotional courage to speak your truth, but lean INTO it, not away from it. You may feel a lot more things yet, but hopefully knowing you are speaking your truth and being authentic to your values will bring you some comfort.

Sort this stuff out.

Galagirl
 
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Gala girl: Very valid points in each regard. I am now emotionally and mentally strong enough to put my foot down with her, and I have been vocal to him about how unfair, cruel and blind he has been. I am standing up for myself and this seems to show him that I am not someone who will sit here and take any more of this. He is open for counseling and I am tactfully moving things along. I also realize, so very much that if this doesn't continue to improve, which it slowly has given the circumstances, that I am going to leave. I have distanced myself yet I am watchful while I take care of myself and daughter. I can also share that I am no longer fighting to keep him, I think he realized this when I asked him up front if he really wanted to stay with me or her. I gave him the choice twice and he did think both times, but he wants to stay and even called to reassure me of that on another day on his own accord.

After I posted this morning he came to me after her sobbing on the phone, and told me that she understands she cannot reach out to him and expect him to be her emotional crutch, and that she would back off. We shall see, I won't be swayed so easily until i see the actual progress myself, however seeing he did not succumb to tears or upset himself, I can see him starting to distance himself from her. He is also knowledgable that I am on here seeking guidance, and he appreciates you all and supports it.

Kevin: Thank you for sympathies, it was shown to me that she is what is known as a 'cowgirl' and now i know what that means. Seeing all the patterns and how she was pushing things, including me away, I can astutely say that she is indeed one. Things are getting better, slowly, but so far in the right direction.

Living my best life: Yes, there was indeed that. however I am both sad and relieved to announce that the universe was watching out for me. The reversal results he was given 8 months ago was false, it turns out the reconnection scarred over and he is infertile, meaning neither of us would have been pregnant. It is a blessing in disguise to say the least, He and I are also taking a years break to work on ourselves while we save up for the expenses that come with fertility treatment, he DOES want more children with me and we both agree that before then we need to come back together and rebuild what was damaged and with better habits.
 
I also realize, so very much that if this doesn't continue to improve, which it slowly has given the circumstances, that I am going to leave. I have distanced myself yet I am watchful while I take care of myself and daughter. I can also share that I am no longer fighting to keep him.

This is good to see. Nobody can come into a marriage without an invitation and steal a man. The term "cowgirl" implies that Crazy can ride into anyone's life and dazzle a man away from his woman and that's just not so. I'm glad that you're focussing on the issues in your marriage instead of on her.
 
Glad you are feeling better and are being more assertive about what you are and are not willing to do. I think going forward in a clear cut way like that could help you create the stability you want. With or without him.

Since you seem to want to work on the marriage, I hope it works out that way and he stops being unfair, cruel and blind as he was in the recent past. I hope he takes personal responsibility for his actions, he apologizes and he changes his behaviors. I hope he does follow through on marriage counseling and you guys can rebuild.

Cowgirls cannot come in and rope people off unless they want to go and be roped off. Maybe you both have learned something about that type of person and will be able to spot shenanigans sooner.

Galagirl
 
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How long until it can be called emotional cheating

I get the impression that things are going to be hard for me after this. however things are not changing, she still texts him, they both still say they love each other and ask for pictures and sending pictures. I've told them to stop but they are not listening. Since the breakup was recent is this normal between them? or is this safe to call emotional cheating? how long do I give it, if at all? I called it off on NOV5th to give a better time frame. I'm at my wits end and I've told the woman to back off but clearly she isn't.

Close to being very fed up. Is this something that people new to trying poly have happen often? ugh..so beyond angry and frustrated. I know I've gotten wonderful answers and insight, but I can't help but come back on here to vent my anger and frustrations. Do i pull the plug on my marriage too?
 
So, you called it off on Nov. 5th, but it's clear he did not. Yes, it's something that is not uncommon if partners have "veto power." It sounds like a good idea, but often goes terribly awry in real life.

Is it emotional cheating? If he agreed to call it off, then arguably, yes. And, while I'm against cheating in all forms, it also sounds like he had little safe space with which to express his own feelings or work with you on what he might want in a relationship shape. It's a big danger in veto power dynamics, unfortunately.

You two really need to consider seeing a couple's therapist that specializes in alternative/poly relationships to help you both work through this.
 
It doesn't matter if she backs off or not. It does even matter if he does or not. It matters to your emotional and mental health whether or not YOU back off and get you away from drama.

She can talk to a brick wall until she gets tired of it if she wants to. He does not have to talk back.

Did he promise to end it? If yes? Then he made an agreement that he is not keeping. He is cheating on agreements.

Circles back around to YOU and what you choose to do when he breaks his agreements with you.

You are in charge of your "stayingness." You say you need to put your mental and emotional health first.

  • You do not want to be in Snarky's network if it includes Sunshine. He is including Sunshine. You could bow out.

  • You are almost full up on drama. You do not have to wait until you are well PAST your limit of tolerance to walk away from all this drama. You can decide to cut your losses and step away before reaching that tipping point. If you see a car coming in the street you get out of the street NOW, right? Not wait til it has already run you over before you decide to get out of the road.

Should you pull the plug on the marriage? That's a major life decision. You could move out and separate for a time. To get the pot off the boil and consider things from a cooler head AWAY from any more new drama. Have time to talk to your therapist. Then make the call on divorce at that future point in time.

The immediate concern is the never ending drama. You cannot stay there and keep enduring drama after drama after drama. You wanted to put your mental health and well being first? Put it FIRST then. Get you out of the line of fire.

You have discovered than hanging around Sunshine was causing you distress because she is toxic to you. You are discovering that Snarky keeps hanging out with your tormentor. So logically you have to stop hanging around Snarky for a time. If that includes divorce in the bigger picture? Sort that out later. For now? Go stay with family, friends or a hotel and get some rest and time AWAY from all this drama. You can even check yourself into hospital if you are having a nervous break down. However you do it, make you #1 priority and get some REST.

I don't know about you, but it takes me at least 3 days to clear the adrenalin dump from a super stressy drama thing. Maybe even a week or more depending on the severity of the thing. And I cannot calm down if I keep getting cranked back up again by another drama / triggering thing. I have to take a time out and get AWAY from all that stuff dinging me left and right.

  • Ideal best for 3: Sunshine and Snarky never behave in this rushing way in the first place. There is no drama that you have to steer clear of.

  • OK Best for 3: Sunshine and Snarky get carried away by NRE and screw up some things. But come to realize how their behavior affects others, apologize to you, and get it together better. You all agree to call it a learning experience and proceed more carefully.
  • Better for just 2: You get away from drama and get some rest and approach problems with a cooler head. You cannot continue with a "friend" who treats you badly.

    Snarky goes with you. Snarky recognizes Sunshine is hurting you and thinks it is not ok for one of his partners to hurt another of his partners. He ends it with Sunshine because he cannot continue with a partner who hurts his other partners. He apologizes for his part of the situation making.
  • Good for just 1: You get away from drama and get some rest and approach problems with a cooler head. You cannot continue with a "friend" who treats you badly. You cannot continue indefinitely with a spouse who hurts you. You take a time out to see if the marriage is salvageable or if it is best to disband.

You aren't getting the first 3 options at this time. Accept it.

You can still have the last option that is "good for just you."

You have to take care of YOU. Nobody else is going to do it for you.

Galagirl
 
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