Religion, politics, sex .. and other taboo subjects
- Thread starter River
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River
Well-known member
I'm sure the reasons are various and diverse. I suspect his stated position on abortion is a factor with many who are Catholic, etc.
Others simply wanted "change" and believed Trump was more likely to bring about this vague and ambiguous something than Clinton. Still others saw Clinton as a criminal who can't be trusted....
What worries me is that these people don't know how deranged, incompetent, unqualified, ... and narcissistic Trump is. He's the king of narcissism. We should all be ashamed and embarrassed -- and worried -- to have elected the king of narcissism to the White House.
Spork
Active member
So I actually YELLED at my ex on the phone last night to get my point across to him, because he was sitting in his echo chamber trying to 'splain to me why he voted for Trump. Not that I'm shocked, same guy who ended our marriage at gunpoint last year, of course he supported the Great Orange Bully.
He said he only voted for him, because Hillary NEEDS to go to jail, because veterans are dying and the VA isn't good and Benghazi and soldiers died because of her and she can't handle sensitive classified information, and if a soldier had done with the emails what she did, they would be in jail. Trump promised to imprison her, so he voted for Trump.
And now he believes that entitled millenials who only care about "special interest groups" are throwing tantrums because their team lost the game.
I'm just sharing because maybe you might like some insight to the mind of a Trump supporter.
I told him that what his choice told me is that he would gleefully eat popcorn and watch while every woman he's ever known was raped to death just to see Hillary behind bars, and that I hoped he would be proud when it all goes down and it becomes quite clear that we've made history, in this country, electing our very own Hitler.
He was quite offended. Asked me just how much power I thought one man had. Enough power to convince every bully in this nation that it's the right way to be, I said... I also informed him that he had some nerve talking about entitlement and special interest groups, since he just put his entitlement for justice for a few dead men, who signed up to be put in harm's way, ahead of the lives and futures of every woman and minority in America. He voted for his own special interests and nothing else.
Towards the end of our conversation, he admitted that he understood what it is like to feel as though your future is uncertain, every hope you had is now in question, and you're not sure if you have much of a future to live for...and that he just wants me to calm down, wants to talk me off my ledge.
I told him that in fact I'm quite calm despite the yelling. I'm not really very emotional at all despite the strong words. But I WILL be heard and my point WILL be made if I have to scream it over his voice because I am goddamn sick to death of him talking over me, silencing me, refusing to hear anything but his own voice, and then telling me I'm just emotional and crazy. If yelling is what it takes, then I will yell. I was nice for too long. Nice did not work. Nice is no good if it makes a victim of you.
I find it spooky how Trump and some of his fanbase mirror so closely my marriage to a narcissist. I actually feel like it was nearly a long training exercise. Either I am well prepared to put my head down, be invisible, and survive...or I have learned well enough what abuse looks like to call it out when I see it. I only have to choose whether to cope, or to fight, now.
He said he only voted for him, because Hillary NEEDS to go to jail, because veterans are dying and the VA isn't good and Benghazi and soldiers died because of her and she can't handle sensitive classified information, and if a soldier had done with the emails what she did, they would be in jail. Trump promised to imprison her, so he voted for Trump.
And now he believes that entitled millenials who only care about "special interest groups" are throwing tantrums because their team lost the game.
I'm just sharing because maybe you might like some insight to the mind of a Trump supporter.
I told him that what his choice told me is that he would gleefully eat popcorn and watch while every woman he's ever known was raped to death just to see Hillary behind bars, and that I hoped he would be proud when it all goes down and it becomes quite clear that we've made history, in this country, electing our very own Hitler.
He was quite offended. Asked me just how much power I thought one man had. Enough power to convince every bully in this nation that it's the right way to be, I said... I also informed him that he had some nerve talking about entitlement and special interest groups, since he just put his entitlement for justice for a few dead men, who signed up to be put in harm's way, ahead of the lives and futures of every woman and minority in America. He voted for his own special interests and nothing else.
Towards the end of our conversation, he admitted that he understood what it is like to feel as though your future is uncertain, every hope you had is now in question, and you're not sure if you have much of a future to live for...and that he just wants me to calm down, wants to talk me off my ledge.
I told him that in fact I'm quite calm despite the yelling. I'm not really very emotional at all despite the strong words. But I WILL be heard and my point WILL be made if I have to scream it over his voice because I am goddamn sick to death of him talking over me, silencing me, refusing to hear anything but his own voice, and then telling me I'm just emotional and crazy. If yelling is what it takes, then I will yell. I was nice for too long. Nice did not work. Nice is no good if it makes a victim of you.
I find it spooky how Trump and some of his fanbase mirror so closely my marriage to a narcissist. I actually feel like it was nearly a long training exercise. Either I am well prepared to put my head down, be invisible, and survive...or I have learned well enough what abuse looks like to call it out when I see it. I only have to choose whether to cope, or to fight, now.
River
Well-known member
I will add that part of Trump's appeal among many must be his position on NAFTA (and trade, generally). I never could take the man seriously in any respect, so did not study his policy proposals in detail on these matters, but I tend to agree with the thrust of his stated opinions on these matters. Clinton would not have endeavored to change these trade policies. So this is perhaps the only thing I have in common with Trump voters.
On second thought... I'm not sure, as I don't have enough details, whether Trump's trade policies would sit well with me. What I do think is that, overall, America's trade policies have not benefited the country (and it's people) in general. We should review them carefully with an eye to improving the lot for those in the middle class and below. I think our national trade policies exacerbate the maldistribution of wealth.
On second thought... I'm not sure, as I don't have enough details, whether Trump's trade policies would sit well with me. What I do think is that, overall, America's trade policies have not benefited the country (and it's people) in general. We should review them carefully with an eye to improving the lot for those in the middle class and below. I think our national trade policies exacerbate the maldistribution of wealth.
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Spork
Active member
One important thing though.
Really the worst part of this for me was feeling like I'm surrounded by people who don't see me as a human being. It's a sensitive spot for me anyways. My feeling Tuesday morning was, "is half of my country comprised of people who are either hostile to me and others I care about...trolls and bullies...or people who just don't care enough that it was worth it to sell us out?"
I'm reassured by this:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/10/13587462/trump-election-2016-voter-turnout
It was not half. It was not 47% of America that did this. It was in fact closer to 27%, because an awful lot of people didn't even show up to vote, apparently.
And here I thought the whole thing was "rigged"... I'm still skeptical of the integrity of the electoral process. But I, like so many, did take for granted that Hillary would get the presidency one way or another.
Really the worst part of this for me was feeling like I'm surrounded by people who don't see me as a human being. It's a sensitive spot for me anyways. My feeling Tuesday morning was, "is half of my country comprised of people who are either hostile to me and others I care about...trolls and bullies...or people who just don't care enough that it was worth it to sell us out?"
I'm reassured by this:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/10/13587462/trump-election-2016-voter-turnout
It was not half. It was not 47% of America that did this. It was in fact closer to 27%, because an awful lot of people didn't even show up to vote, apparently.
And here I thought the whole thing was "rigged"... I'm still skeptical of the integrity of the electoral process. But I, like so many, did take for granted that Hillary would get the presidency one way or another.
InfinitePossibility
New member
In the last couple of years Scotland (and the UK as a whole) have gone through some troubling elections.
In 2014 we had the indyref that asked people in Scotland to vote on should Scotland become an independent country. The election results showed that roughly 45% voted yes and roughly 55% voted no. So we stayed part of the UK. I'd voted yes since it seemed to me that Scotland might do better to govern ourselves - we get a bit forgotten about up here at the top of the country which isn't surprising. We have much less of a population than the city of London on its own. So I voted yes but wasn't massively emotionally invested in the result either way.
The run up to the ballot was tricky for some people. Some families fell out over how to vote. In some workplaces, it was impossible to discuss openly. On the whole, it wasn't too bad for me as a native Scot. However, people living here who came from the rest of the UK or from other parts of the world didn't feel as comfortable. Things weren't too bad but it was an unsettling time.
What followed the referendum was horrible. Some of the yes voters sank into a deep depression. People started wearing badges identifying themselves as one of the 45%. Some of the yes voters started to be really unpleasant to anybody who they knew had voted no. This got a whole lot worse in the run up to the UK general election and once a right wing government was voted in, many of the no voters were blamed for Scotland being part of that. The Scottish National Party won almost every seat in Scotland and have never been so strong here.
Then this year there was the brexit vote. Should the UK stay in the European Union? That was worse. Racism increased dramatically. An MP was killed in the run up to that one. Nobody thought that the vote would be to leave the EU (not even the government who had started the whole thing).
As soon as that result came out, the Prime Minister resigned and the opposition party took out a vote of no confidence against their leader. We have a new Prime Minister - a woman. Her gender fills nobody with confidence. We've had a woman Prime Minister before and she was a disaster for the country. The opposition party voted in a new leader - the winner of their election is the same guy that they just got rid of.
Nobody knows what is happening. Anybody here who isn't from the UK is feeling very unsettled. Some have left. People report increases in racial abuse.
The only slight positive in it is that the SNP leadership in Scotland have been very clear that we welcome immigrants here. We don't want to see any of the people here leaving. She is doing a great job. Her party isn't left wing but they seem that way compared to the rest of the country.
Following the Brexit result, there has been lots in social media blaming people who voted to leave for all of this mess. Lots of people writing about how anybody who voted to leave is a racist bigot.
None of this is true. Plenty of people who voted for Scotland to stay in the UK did so for good reasons. Plenty of people who voted for the UK to leave Europe also did so for good reasons. I see nothing to be gained from demonising the people who voted a way you didn't like.
I suspect that things are the same in the US. Not everybody who voted for Trump can be a bigoted mysogynist even though it might feel right to brand them all that way.
Don't get me wrong. I think that Trump being in the position he's in is a horrible outcome. My heart goes out to anybody in the US who isn't a white middle class heterosexual man. Just thinking about it makes me feel sad.
I feel similarly about the UK leaving Europe. I think it's a mistake and I think that the government who will lead that exit are determined to make life even more unbearable for the poorest and most vulnerable in our society.
I just think that it doesn't help that situation to demonise the many people who voted for these things - most of them thinking that they were doing the right thing.
In 2014 we had the indyref that asked people in Scotland to vote on should Scotland become an independent country. The election results showed that roughly 45% voted yes and roughly 55% voted no. So we stayed part of the UK. I'd voted yes since it seemed to me that Scotland might do better to govern ourselves - we get a bit forgotten about up here at the top of the country which isn't surprising. We have much less of a population than the city of London on its own. So I voted yes but wasn't massively emotionally invested in the result either way.
The run up to the ballot was tricky for some people. Some families fell out over how to vote. In some workplaces, it was impossible to discuss openly. On the whole, it wasn't too bad for me as a native Scot. However, people living here who came from the rest of the UK or from other parts of the world didn't feel as comfortable. Things weren't too bad but it was an unsettling time.
What followed the referendum was horrible. Some of the yes voters sank into a deep depression. People started wearing badges identifying themselves as one of the 45%. Some of the yes voters started to be really unpleasant to anybody who they knew had voted no. This got a whole lot worse in the run up to the UK general election and once a right wing government was voted in, many of the no voters were blamed for Scotland being part of that. The Scottish National Party won almost every seat in Scotland and have never been so strong here.
Then this year there was the brexit vote. Should the UK stay in the European Union? That was worse. Racism increased dramatically. An MP was killed in the run up to that one. Nobody thought that the vote would be to leave the EU (not even the government who had started the whole thing).
As soon as that result came out, the Prime Minister resigned and the opposition party took out a vote of no confidence against their leader. We have a new Prime Minister - a woman. Her gender fills nobody with confidence. We've had a woman Prime Minister before and she was a disaster for the country. The opposition party voted in a new leader - the winner of their election is the same guy that they just got rid of.
Nobody knows what is happening. Anybody here who isn't from the UK is feeling very unsettled. Some have left. People report increases in racial abuse.
The only slight positive in it is that the SNP leadership in Scotland have been very clear that we welcome immigrants here. We don't want to see any of the people here leaving. She is doing a great job. Her party isn't left wing but they seem that way compared to the rest of the country.
Following the Brexit result, there has been lots in social media blaming people who voted to leave for all of this mess. Lots of people writing about how anybody who voted to leave is a racist bigot.
None of this is true. Plenty of people who voted for Scotland to stay in the UK did so for good reasons. Plenty of people who voted for the UK to leave Europe also did so for good reasons. I see nothing to be gained from demonising the people who voted a way you didn't like.
I suspect that things are the same in the US. Not everybody who voted for Trump can be a bigoted mysogynist even though it might feel right to brand them all that way.
Don't get me wrong. I think that Trump being in the position he's in is a horrible outcome. My heart goes out to anybody in the US who isn't a white middle class heterosexual man. Just thinking about it makes me feel sad.
I feel similarly about the UK leaving Europe. I think it's a mistake and I think that the government who will lead that exit are determined to make life even more unbearable for the poorest and most vulnerable in our society.
I just think that it doesn't help that situation to demonise the many people who voted for these things - most of them thinking that they were doing the right thing.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
I'm inclined to think that economics drove this election more than any other factors. This election wasn't about race or gender at all, it was about millions of average, good people who have watched the steady erosion of their standard of living and economic security. It was about the perception that this was the person who would be best able to get us back on the road to economic prosperity.
On CNBC.com (a US business and politics TV channel)
Sorry, Uncovering America’s Racist Underbelly Wasn’t Why Trump Won
by Jake Novak
Wednesday, 9 Nov 2016
"Millions of Americans, especially those in the Washington establishment, woke up on Wednesday feeling shocked and hurt by the surprise election of Donald Trump to the White House. But like every failure or painful turn in life, it will mean nothing and lead to nothing but hurt feelings unless these wounded Americans learn a real lesson today and become tomorrow's wise. To do that, they must accept and learn the real reason Trump won.
First, they need to ignore the prevailing angry explanations that are all off the mark. The first incorrect reason many of us began hearing well before Election Day was that Trump was being bolstered by overt racists and more nuanced "alt-right" haters who were acting like a springboard after eight years of an African-American in the Oval Office. That theory went further to insist that Trump's hard-line stance against illegal Mexican immigrants invigorated a nascent nativist hatred movement. But the facts simply didn't bear that out throughout the election and now we know that even more based on the fact that Trump did five points better than Mitt Romney among black voters and two points better among Latinos. Trump's victory is simply not the result of some kind of burgeoning race war.
The second reason many people have been using as a crutch against the real reason for Trump's victory is sexism. Many of us are being led to believe that, in the end, too many American voters just wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton because she's a woman. There's probably no way to prove this is false via statistics. But based on what most of us saw and heard on social media and elsewhere throughout the election, it sure seems like more people voted for Clinton because she's a woman rather than the other way around. Moreover, if the morose Left would just try to find a silver lining in all of this today it might realize that Clinton's gender never really played much of a role at all in this election for the overwhelming majority of Americans. A glass ceiling has indeed been broken when it comes to the way voters think. That should not be forgotten or missed.
The last wrong explanation for Clinton's loss is one people both on the Left and the Right are making: The Clinton email scandal. Of course, the continuing cloud of the on again/off again FBI investigation into Clinton's illegal private email server didn't help her campaign. But it always served as one of those fake reasons people give for not voting for someone they just never were going to support anyway. That is not to say the use of the server wasn't reckless and serious, but Clinton's fate was sealed long before most Americans had ever really learned of the scandal or knew the name "James Comey."
Nope, the real reasons Trump won have been real in America for at least the last 40 or so years. They are all the same reasons I finally recognized five-plus months ago when I first realized he was headed to victory. It's simple: The largest single economic group in our country has been sold out and ignored by the leaders of both parties for more than a generation. They are the hourly wage-earning Americans who have been bounced around from good manufacturing jobs, to service jobs, to seasonal work without the rest of us noticing that much. And that's even though there are a lot more of them than the college-educated white collar office workers out there. You know the financial uncertainty you felt last night when you saw the Dow futures crash down by 750 points? That's the kind of emotion millions of your fellow Americans have been feeling every night for years even though they're not "poor" or even necessarily unemployed. These are the people who have been the acceptable sacrifices for our trade and wage-deflating immigration policies that do boost our economy overall ... just not for them. These are the people who have been scoffed at for not choosing to go to college, even though doing so has become an exercise in playing a game of "economic chicken" with student loans and irrelevant skills.
And it goes beyond economics. This is a divide that truly began in America during the Vietnam War, which was protested and defended by the rich and upper middle class while the lower middle class and poor actually did the fighting in country. That divide and the wounds from it have never really healed. I doubt we'll ever see an exit poll this specific, but I'd be willing to bet that Trump won 60 percent plus of the Vietnam veterans' vote because he spoke to their past and current pain in a way actual Vietnam vets like John Kerry and John McCain — guys who actually served in the war — never could. Since Trump can't affect positive changes for this group of long-ignored Americans without help, it's imperative that Democrats and Republicans get acquainted, really acquainted, with the people who elected him. Hillary Clinton and the 16 Republicans who lost to Trump in the primaries failed because they really have thought of this group of people as "deplorables." Clinton was just the unlucky one who got caught saying so.
The good news is that this is not a segment of the population that relies on welfare or needs new government handouts. In fact, just knowing that someone in Washington is finally listening to them and not writing them off as racists or Neanderthals will be an amazing start. And the politicians and other establishment types who do the most and best listening over the next four years will be the ones who move this country the most forward and reap the most rewards."
Commentary by Jake Novak, CNBC.com senior columnist. Follow him on Twitter @jakejakeny.
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Yes I do think he must have gotten a lot of votes not "because of" but "despite" insulting all the people he managed to insult.
Like: It doesn't matter how he talks, he still has the better plan.
PinkPig
Well-known member
Of the people that I know who voted for him, it's not so much that he has the better plan (because he's very vague about his 'plan'), it's that he's not a career politician. I know more than a few who voted for him simply for that reason.
River
Well-known member
Whatever virtue and value there may be in such commentary (and it may be considerable), there remains a number of facts which cannot be ignored.
No, way more than a couple of facts. A truckload of facts.
Some salient examples:
1. Trump has called human-caused climate change a “hoax”.
Um. Enough said. Sheesh.
2. Trump has said that he believes women who get abortions should receive some kind of "punishment".
3. Trump's hand-picked running mate is one of America's most gay-hating of politicians.
4. Trump publicly refused to denounce hate groups like the KKK, when he learned that they are among his active supporters.
And I could build this list for hours, but I know the others here are as good at typing as I am, so....
Bernie Sanders would have been a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better "change candidate." This is the salient fact which many of us now know so painfully.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
Interesting to think about is the possibility of "faithless electors" which are exceedingly rare, but legal. The people who actually vote for president are the electors in the EC and this group will cast their ballots on Dec. 19. Electors are not bound by law (or in some states, by minor penalties only) to vote with the majority in their state. So, it's a long shot, but the fat lady hasn't sung quite yet.
Are there restrictions on who the Electors can vote for?
Are there restrictions on who the Electors can vote for?
River
Well-known member
Climate change denier is leading Trump's EPA transition team
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/leading-climate-change-denier-among-those-on-trumps-environmental-team/
Sane, reasonable, informed, educated people will know what sort of a man Trump is, and the sort of president he will (would?) be. We can only hope that the members of the "electoral college" will not cast their votes for this lunatic freak.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/leading-climate-change-denier-among-those-on-trumps-environmental-team/
Sane, reasonable, informed, educated people will know what sort of a man Trump is, and the sort of president he will (would?) be. We can only hope that the members of the "electoral college" will not cast their votes for this lunatic freak.
River
Well-known member
Twitter:
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."
Um... REALLY?!
Next thing he'll say is that "God created Adam and Eve, so that Eve could serve Adam's every wish in the bedroom and and in the kitchen, preferably barefoot and pregnant." No more teaching of biological evolution in the schools, as this is "nothing more than Chinese propaganda meant to raise the price of tea and noodles on working class Americans."
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."
Um... REALLY?!
Next thing he'll say is that "God created Adam and Eve, so that Eve could serve Adam's every wish in the bedroom and and in the kitchen, preferably barefoot and pregnant." No more teaching of biological evolution in the schools, as this is "nothing more than Chinese propaganda meant to raise the price of tea and noodles on working class Americans."
River
Well-known member
I have rural people in my extended family who have hated Hillary for 30 years. Because she's a woman. Because she is a plain looking, smart woman in pants.
And many of these relatives will vote for whoever says they will do nothing to further regulate the sale or use of guns.
They don't think about or understand world economics. They live in towns of white people. They aren't concerned about Mexicans or Muslims. Brown people might as well not exist.
They just want a white man in the white house, and they want their guns.
And many of these relatives will vote for whoever says they will do nothing to further regulate the sale or use of guns.
They don't think about or understand world economics. They live in towns of white people. They aren't concerned about Mexicans or Muslims. Brown people might as well not exist.
They just want a white man in the white house, and they want their guns.
River
Well-known member
Trump wanted a Wall. (Click here for a low budget guestimation of the cost.)
More on the wall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI
I think we should let Trump go ahead and build his wall.
Let the Trump Wall divide the nation we might call The Deep South--or Trumplandia http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-crMRBIZTO6Q/Vtj8g70zabI/AAAAAAAADE8/2X2B2hpnex4/s1600/Ccq9JZGUUAAh2UL.jpg -- from the rest of America. Let those who don't want to live in The Deep South move to the emerging new nation which will emerge on the West coast, comprised of the current California, Oregon and Washington (and perhaps a few Eastern states as well) ... a nation first conceived of as Ecotopia ... but which may go by the name of Cascadia, instead.
Let Trump build his wall and keep out all the Muslims, gays, non-whites, free-thinking women, liberals, progressives and etc.
If he can get Mexico to pay for that wall, more power to him. We wish him all the luck on that.
Otherwise, let him have his starved and freezing $4. an hour wage slaves build that wall ... to keep his people in.
We'll be needing to allow wildlife free passage of course.
He can wall out all of the people who believe in science and logic and reason -- and facts. No problem! Let those people with unlimited guns be inside Trump's walled Utopia! Let them fight it out among themselves. I don't care! Not my problem.
The people of Trumplandia can be armed to the teeth AND doubt that climate scientists know anything at all about climate. NOT MY PROBLEM.
Surely Trumplandians will be trying to burrow under the Trump Wall as Trumplandia becomes ever more hellish. Not my problem. Let them free passage. Let them cleanse their hearts and minds in the clear waters of the free world outside Trumplandia's walls.
Those inside Trumplandia can gorge themselves on white bread and ignorance. It's not our problem.
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FallenAngelina
Well-known member
All of this vitriol against Trump is reminiscent of Reagan, who was feared and reviled in my Liberal bubble at the time. Once again, the idiotic American public had elected an evil, incompetent man (an actor!) who would demolish all of the progress we had made. There were cheers all around in my college community dorm TV room when he was shot. Yet the guy ended up bringing down the Iron Curtain.
I've seen all of this before and it's not the end of the world as we know it. If you're pissed off, work for what you believe in, but generalizing about Trump voters is just another form of bigotry and will get us nowhere. If we want an inclusive America, we have to start with ourselves. Reach out to someone who is different than you are, and not just a different skin tone. If you think "They" are all just a bunch of haters, be the one not to hate. Don't use a few bad experiences as your excuse to entrench yourself even more firmly in your own bigotry and fear. Sure, there are many Republicans not worth listening to, but there are very many more who are. If we want an America that truly is inclusive, then we have to recognize that inclusion doesn't just mean race and gender, it means political and social perspective, as well. We have a Conservative and a Liberal party for a reason and that is because each brings something valuable to the way we govern this country. Our government needs points of view that are varied and what makes this country so amazing is that no matter what, each of us can participate and be heard. Don't waste your voice on hatred, fear mongering and bigoted caricatures. Gather your power to work for what you believe in - and make a friend with someone who is politically very different. That's the only way to be truly progressive.
I've seen all of this before and it's not the end of the world as we know it. If you're pissed off, work for what you believe in, but generalizing about Trump voters is just another form of bigotry and will get us nowhere. If we want an inclusive America, we have to start with ourselves. Reach out to someone who is different than you are, and not just a different skin tone. If you think "They" are all just a bunch of haters, be the one not to hate. Don't use a few bad experiences as your excuse to entrench yourself even more firmly in your own bigotry and fear. Sure, there are many Republicans not worth listening to, but there are very many more who are. If we want an America that truly is inclusive, then we have to recognize that inclusion doesn't just mean race and gender, it means political and social perspective, as well. We have a Conservative and a Liberal party for a reason and that is because each brings something valuable to the way we govern this country. Our government needs points of view that are varied and what makes this country so amazing is that no matter what, each of us can participate and be heard. Don't waste your voice on hatred, fear mongering and bigoted caricatures. Gather your power to work for what you believe in - and make a friend with someone who is politically very different. That's the only way to be truly progressive.
InfinitePossibility
New member
This popped up in my facebook feed. It's a UK comedian's take on Donald Trump winning - he makes some very good points particularly about the need to not see the Trump voters as a homogenous mass of racist woman haters.
I think it is very clever so thought I'd share it with you guys.
There is lots of swearing and otherwise aggressive language in it so don't watch if stuff like that is a problem for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
I think it is very clever so thought I'd share it with you guys.
There is lots of swearing and otherwise aggressive language in it so don't watch if stuff like that is a problem for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
River
Well-known member
Let's Please Stop Crediting Ronald Reagan for the Fall of the Berlin Wall
http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...eagan-for-the-fall-of-the-berlin-wall/262647/
Causes of the Soviet Collapse (1979-1991)
http://www.arcaneknowledge.org/histpoli/soviet.htm
___________________________
... and Trump really is all that bad, really. The man is, as President Obama said, "uniquely unqualified" for the presidency.
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/obama-...is-uniquely-unqualified-opponent-799398979984
Many of us think the most important issue of our time is climate change (otherwise known as anthropogenic climate disruption). We believe this because thousands of scientists around the world have done an almost infinite amount of scientific research over many decades, the results of which are unambiguous. There is a scientific consensus. There are scientific facts. And Trump says those facts are not true, that he knows science better than those scientists, that it's all a big lie, a "hoax". He will put another nut like himself at the head of the EPA, rendering the EPA an expensive but useless hulk of nothing. He will fill his cabinet with liars and/or people too stupid to comprehend one of the most urgent matters humanity has ever faced.
He is therefore dangerous -- and uniquely unqualified to be president of the United States. Something should be done to protect Americans from this ridiculous, narcissistic, incompetent clown.
InsaneMystic
Member
I am not a fan of Ronald Reagan. Not by a far cry. Unsurprisingly, as I'm someone who currently is very seriously thinking of making the step to becoming registered, paying member of a political party - namely the one I have been consistently voting for for several years: our leftists/democratic socialists (Die Linke).
But hearing Old Ronnie named with Trump in the same sentence still is unbearably offensive to my ears. For the sake of the memory of America's 40th President, HEY!!!
But hearing Old Ronnie named with Trump in the same sentence still is unbearably offensive to my ears. For the sake of the memory of America's 40th President, HEY!!!