Betrayal in polyamory?

A

Alodia

New member
Hello everybody! I'm new to this forum, so I hope I'm posting this thread correctly :p

For a little over a year, I've been in a poly relationship (my first). I met this fascinating man who has a girlfriend, and he explained they have an open relationship. So after I while I became his girlfriend too. I need to point out that until recently he and I lived in different cities. He lived with his other girlfriend, I lived on my own. Whenever I would go visit, I would stay at their place, and it was really easy going and friendly. So they invited me to move in, officially. Coincidentally his other girlfriend went to live in another city, for work.

For a month now, I've been living with him in a new city, which requires some adjustment, since I know very few people, mostly his friends. I left my friends, family and the other two guys I was having dates with back in my city (I say "dates" because they weren't really relationships, just more like casual sex).

So when we first started our relationship, we had a very long conversation setting our rules and we agreed that we would be honest with each other. That if we meet someone new, we would talk about it and keep each other informed. No lies. So for instance, he knew that I was seeing two other guys back in my city, whatever question he would ask, I would answer honestly.

So as I said, I've been here for over a month. I was super happy until my cellphone got stolen. So I asked for his to make a call back home. When I hung up, he got a text from a woman I've never heard of, saying: "I really miss you, when are we gonna see each other again?" with a little heart. I was kind of shocked to be honest. So I probably shouldn't have, but I checked some of the messages they exchanged. They were very sexually explicit and talked about motel encounters. My little "espionage" didn't last more than 30 seconds. He was right in the other room, so I took the phone to him and calmly and directly asked him: "who is (NAME)?"

He deflected replying with a "Why?" I said "Because she just sent you a text. Who is she?" Then he lied and said, "She's just a friend, I have absolutely nothing with her. I've never even met her" I was shocked that he lied, to my face, right after I told him I saw the text. I felt just so betrayed.

Then he asked, "How much did you read?" And I replied, "For about 30 seconds". Then he started accusing me of invading his privacy and of being a jealous girlfriend. I said that I did invade his privacy, that I was sorry but that it wasn't for long and I immediately came to talk to him about it. Why hadn't he talked to me about it, I asked. Then... just one excuse after the other, each time adjusting his story.... just such a liar. I am so disappointed, I really do feel betrayed. Is that stupid? I just don't know if I'm exaggerating or not, I'm really sad.

After a week he finally recognized that they met almost nine months ago and that they did have sex in motels. And that I "should feel happy" that she knows about me. Really? I should? Well, I didn't know about her. I feel so... completely in the dark. I moved here to be with him and I find this out.

I just don't understand why he lied. Why he hid this from me, I mean, what's the point? He has another girlfriend that I know of, I had sex with other guys that he knows of, why lie? Am I being stupid and naive? He says that I'm being ridiculous and that I shouldn't even care about it. I'm really lost at the moment and would really appreciate any advice or perspective you have to share on this.

Thanks so much in advance

=)
 
It may be stirring the pot, but what about talking to his other longtime gf?
Maybe he hid this from her aw well, which could be indicative of other issues.
 
Amac and Anamikanon... he did lie to the other GF too. But she found out through him, because when I discovered the lie, he took some "preventive" actions and called her to say that I had found this out and that he "didn't wanna lie to her" so that's why she was telling her now.
But no, she didn't know about it. I know she didn't react well to it, but I haven't really talked to her about it yet.
 
First of All, I am so sorry this has happened to you :(

Cheating can completely happen in Poly relationships. You aren't being naive and you haven't done anything wrong (except snoop a little *by accident* as it came up as it was in your hand) But honestly what did he expect by keeping it from two women? And letting you use his phone?

Anyway that's not the point. I was just going to share a story. So.
I dated a man for 6-8months in 2015, it was an open relationship, I was seeing two other men, he had me and a longterm partner he lived with too. He ended up cheating on me and his other partner with a woman who was a family friend. The other partner forgave him- I didn't. The woman he was dating was also cheating. And so I said even though he came clean with me he was also still participating in corroborating cheating with someone else. Somethings are just deal breakers. I broke it off with him.

It's up to you if you feel this is a line that is crossed that can't be mended or if you want to work at it all three of you, because you all will be in a sort of up and down place for awhile with trust with him and things might get hard to deal in, either between you and him, or him and other partner, or just both of you and him. It might be easy for you two girls to takes sides against him or him to try to go between you both so watch out for that.

Him taking the phone and calling her is a tactic of that, he wanted to make sure she was on his side not yours. So watch out for triangulation communication.

And make sure you get a back up plan in case it gets ugly. :)

Now that I got the fear mongering out of the way. If you can, when the other partner is back in town, (or use skype if nessecary), try to sit down all together and talk about the situation calmly, and maybe come up with an action plan to address the issue and figure out ways to sort it out.

First you need to address:
How do you feel about what happened?
Are you angry? Sad? hurt? guilty? Shamed?

And what do you want to DO about what happened?
Do you want to end the relationship?
Do you want to continue without changes?
Do you want to continue with changes? (ie he goes to therapy, or he cuts her out? etc.)
Have full access to all his media for a set time until Trust marbles in trust jar is topped up again? Forgo sex until hes tested again? (for safe sex practices?)

And what would your ideal course of action be for him?

Obviously you don't want him to participate in cheating again.
But he also didn't practice safe sex techniques because he's been meeting up with someone *you didn't know* and having sex with that person. Because he lied its now going to be hard to trust if he *had safe sex*and *if she was the only one*.

You can't change him, you can ask for changes.

For me this would be a Deal Breaker, and I'm not sure I could go past it. Especially as it already involved multiple people which would make the situation messy, but then I operate more from a solo-poly platform without living with anyone, and well my own dating history isn't exactly full of relationship with longevity. But I do feel they were successful in that I learnt a lot from them all. So take what I say with your own pinch of salt and try to do what's best for you in this situation to make sure your wellbeing, financial and mental / physical care are looked after. :eek:
 
Alodia said:
Amac and Anamikanon... he did lie to the other GF too. But she found out through him, because when I discovered the lie, he took some "preventive" actions and called her to say that I had found this out and that he "didn't wanna lie to her" so that's why she was telling her now.
But no, she didn't know about it. I know she didn't react well to it, but I haven't really talked to her about it yet.
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Well, still good he told her, I guess, even if it sort of became inevitable after you finding out.

Cheating sucks. I don't know how your relationship is. Can you trust him again? Are there any more surprises he doesn't think he needs to tell you?
 
I don't think you are being ridiculous at all. If my partner did that to me I would have to know why. That means honest communication with no deflecting. Saying you are being ridiculous and it should not be a big deal to you is deflecting.
 
vinsanity0 said:
I don't think you are being ridiculous at all. If my partner did that to me I would have to know why. That means honest communication with no deflecting. Saying you are being ridiculous and it should not be a big deal to you is deflecting.
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I agree, completely. A lie is an untruth. From what I have read, learned, and have been told, truth and open communication are the very foundations of polyamory, no? Do not feel ridiculous. Yes, you snooped, but, look what you uncovered. Take that into account. Ignoring it could bite you in the ass, in the long run.
 
Cheaters cheat, liars lie.

You've caught him out not in one mistruth, but a whole string of whoppers.

What's he gonna lie about next? STD testing? causing a pregnancy? moving a new girlfriend in? getting married on an out-of-town trip? smoking meth? throwing your stuff on the curb while you're out?

:rolleyes:
 
I'm sorry you deal in this. :(

What makes people keep their agreements is not the "mono" or "poly" shape of the relationship structure they are in. What makes them keep their agreements is having the quality of integrity -- their talk and walk MATCH. They do not make promises or agreements lightly.

He said he would tell you about other partners and he didn't. Said one thing, did another. Cheated on his agreements with you.

Disheartening for you, and I'm sorry. :(

Nobody likes to find out that agreements have been cheated on, and that they're now having to think about STD screenings and whatever else. :(

I just don't understand why he lied. Why he hid this from me, I mean, what's the point?
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He did it because he did it. Maybe he likes the "secret thrill" of maybe getting caught. It's an adrenalin rush. I'm not saying it is ok to cheat on agreements. But some people do do that -- chase the rush by taking risks.

He has another girlfriend that I know of, I had sex with other guys that he knows of, why lie? Am I being stupid and naive?
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He made some agreements and broke his Word. You are disappointed and upset by that. Natural to feel. Not stupid and not naive.

He says that I'm being ridiculous and that I shouldn't even care about it. I'm really lost at the moment and would really appreciate any advice or perspective you have to share on this.
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He lied, minimized, backpedaled, and now flips it around on you like you are the one who is messing up by being disappointed in his actions. Basically, he doesn't sound like he owns his stuff and takes personal responsibility for how his actions can affect others.

Maybe you are just now getting a good look at the "real him" -- where before on the visiting trips he was on best behavior "just for show."

It's a blow. You moved to live with him in another city. Maybe to show increasing commitment to him in this relationship. And he shows increasing commitment to you by doing what? Blowing off his agreements with you when he could just be up front about it because you are in an Open relationship.

You have to decide if you want to rebuild trust with him here, or whether it's best not to even bother. Since he's not apologizing and making amends but doing flip-a-roo and blame shifting... I'd incline toward not bothering.

But that is me, and you are you. You have to make your own decisions about how to handle it when you discover your partner's been cheating on agreements.

Def a strike of some kind. But is this a 1 strike deal breaker to you? He's used up his 1 chance already? So you are out of here?

Or a 3 changes/strikes to change his ways. If he uses all 3 chances, then you are out of here deal breaker?

Surely you aren't going to give him 100 chances, 1000 chances to get it together?

Galagirl
 
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Starlight, thank you so much for your understanding and well-explained answer. Thanks for validating my feelings and helping me see I'm not being naive.

To be honest, my first gut reaction, in my mind, was "It's over. Done." I do feel like he crossed a line, that, I thought because we talked about it multiple times, it was very clear. But then, of course, is not that simple, and he starts saying things like he loves me and he really wants me to stay and that she means nothing to him. And that he regrets that he put what we have in jeopardy.

I don't think the other partner we'll back in town soon. So maybe Skype? But honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how to react to this, not even really thinking about what her views are yet. In that regard what worries me is that he said that she did this to him once in the past, cheated and lied, and he had to work a lot to forgive her. So I think her views will be different. And also, what a shock that he does the same thing to me. Worrisome.

Trying to answer your questions:

I feel sad, angry and very hurt. Not guilty, not shamed. Some days I wake up in the morning and my first thought is "What a liar".

What I want to do is a bit more difficult to answer. Part of me wants to end it. Part of me would be willing to give it a go with, for sure, changes. He offered to cut contact with her, as a sign that she means nothing to him. So far, it seems like he did. But, believe it or not, I'm not a very tech-savy person, I'm just not into it and I can't be bothered checking all his messages and stuff, it doesn't seem for me, I just wish he would show me I can trust him, which obviously now I don't.

He swore that he had protected sex with her. But seriously? So I went to the doctor a few days ago, waiting on the test results. I also asked him to get tested, but he hasn't yet. With all that, I'm not really feeling very sexual towards him and he's kinda upset about it, he said that not having sex with him means that I'm jealous. Which in all honesty I'm not, maybe a little bit, but I'm more upset and just feel like I can't trust him. Also he seems to use the word "jealous" like is a crime. I think is normal to feel jealousy, the important thing is how you handle it.

I already told him very clearly that I don't want this to happen again. That this is simply not the type of relationship that I want and that if he wants me around he needs to do a lot better. He said he was sorry, but... I kinda felt like he meant he regrets things are like they are. Don't really have the feeling he thinks he did nothing wrong, he has a very unapologetic attitude.
I said to him that honesty and an open line of communication is the only way I really see our relationship growing, getting to really know each other and achieving true intimacy.

I don't know. This sucks.

Again, thanks so much for your answer. It gave me perspective and made me feel better
 
vinsanity0 said:
I don't think you are being ridiculous at all. If my partner did that to me I would have to know why. That means honest communication with no deflecting. Saying you are being ridiculous and it should not be a big deal to you is deflecting.
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Thanks Vinsanity. Is good to hear that I'm not over-reacting. I'm new to polyamory and sometimes it can get confusing when your partner says otherwise. And I also agree that he's deflecting and not recognizing nor validating my feelings. Fair point.
 
SW1231 said:
I agree, completely. A lie is an untruth. From what I have read, learned, and have been told, truth and open communication are the very foundations of polyamory, no? Do not feel ridiculous. Yes, you snooped, but, look what you uncovered. Take that into account. Ignoring it could bite you in the ass, in the long run.
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Thanks for your words. I agree that open communication and truth should be the foundations. And thanks for commenting on the snooping hehe. I haven't touched his phone or other devices since, and I don't want to. But also I asked him if there were any other girls that I should know about, I said that this is the time to tell me if so. He said no. I want to believe him, but I don't know if I can.
 
You may be involved with a narcissist. I was in a relationship with one for 2 1/2 years and I've delved deeply into the subject as a way of healing.

Your person is exhibiting behaviors mine did. It's making me see a red flag. Lying. Creating drama instead of harmony. Gaslighting. Triangulating partners. Being unable to understand basic human concepts or emotions. Calling you names, mocking, belittling or even laughing at you when you are hurt. Being charming at first, and then turning into someone else once he feels he has you hooked, ie: idealize, devalue... discard.

http://esteemology.com/the-three-ph...ip-cycle-over-evaluation-devaluation-discard/

A good site with lots of articles exploring the subject:

https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/

An article from that site about narcissists cheating:

https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/why-do-narcissists-and-sociopaths-cheat.374/
 
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This may sound ridiculous, but who stole your phone? I'd almost suspect he did, so you'd need to borrow his, and end up seeing messages from this secret gf, so he could enjoy torturing you with the revelation.

Call me crazy, lol, my mind just went there. Narcs love trouble. They love to feel their women are fighting over them. It makes them feel big and powerful and desirable.
 
He doesn't sound particularly regretful, does he? It doesn't sound like he particularly cares what impact it has on you. Two things that tell me he is irresponsible and uncaring.

From there it is downhill. He appears to be deflecting, making you feel guilty for having a problem with.... well, a problem. This is gaslighting and emotional abuse.

Unless you see any sign of regret and amends, I think the faster you are rid of him, the sooner you can begin to heal.
 
Alodia said:
Starlight, thank you so much for your understanding and well-explained answer. Thanks for validating my feelings and helping me see I'm not being naive.
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You're Welcome :) Your feelings are always valid.

Alodia said:
To be honest, my first gut reaction, in my mind, was "It's over. Done." I do feel like he crossed a line, that, I thought because we talked about it multiple times, it was very clear. But then, of course, is not that simple, and he starts saying things like he loves me and he really wants me to stay and that she means nothing to him. And that he regrets that he put what we have in jeopardy.
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That's understandable. I would feel the same way. But it's up to you if you feel the strength of the relationship can be repaired.

You could write out a pros and cons-
put on there:

What have we built up In that past that put marbles into the Trust Jar (Taken this quote liberally from Gabrielle current LDR),
Against another list that says:
What has he torn with lack of trust, that removed marbles from the Trust Jar.

Alodia said:
I don't think the other partner we'll back in town soon. So maybe Skype? But honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how to react to this, not even really thinking about what her views are yet. In that regard what worries me is that he said that she did this to him once in the past, cheated and lied, and he had to work a lot to forgive her. So I think her views will be different. And also, what a shock that he does the same thing to me. Worrisome.
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It's alright to need more time before adding another person and just deciding what *you* need over what the other partner needs. I only suggested this because of his warning flag above of him "contacting her first with his side of the story" so that you couldn't all deal in it together.

This felt like, a power play move, and was a yellow if not red flag to me on behaviour. Seeing as he likes to keep people in the dark by cheating in the first place, controlling communication is another tactic of people who like to fiddle with peoples heart strings :(

And yes you're right to be worried that she had engaged in cheating first. Have you heard this directly form her however? This may be a falsehood created to make his cheating look palatable as he was a victim so he cheated because he was cheated on.

How does him cheating on you have anything to do with him being cheated on? :confused: You didn't cheat on him or retaliate on him with cheating behaviour now?

Alodia said:
Trying to answer your questions:

I feel sad, angry and very hurt. Not guilty, not shamed. Some days I wake up in the morning and my first thought is "What a liar".
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I'm glad you're acknowledging your feelings, I asked this to make sure you felt your feelings were valid and worthwhile, and I've found it useful to use this space here to vent anger and frustration at times. :eek:

Alodia said:
What I want to do is a bit more difficult to answer. Part of me wants to end it. Part of me would be willing to give it a go with, for sure, changes. He offered to cut contact with her, as a sign that she means nothing to him. So far, it seems like he did. But, believe it or not, I'm not a very tech-savy person, I'm just not into it and I can't be bothered checking all his messages and stuff, it doesn't seem for me, I just wish he would show me I can trust him, which obviously now I don't.
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Actions and words don't meet up here. I mean obviously she means something to him otherwise why the sex, the texts, etc. Either he's lying to you or he's lying to himself, but it's more lying.

No it's never a good idea to police someone else's behaviour it's just a temporary Band-Aid to put on a situation that really needs some root work behaviour done, such as he and she probably both need to go to counselling on why they cheat If they are willing and own up to it. Definitely at the very least a lot more honesty is needed and since you can't trust that? Ergo: looking at messages until trust built up again.

Alodia said:
He swore that he had protected sex with her. But seriously? So I went to the doctor a few days ago, waiting on the test results. I also asked him to get tested, but he hasn't yet. With all that, I'm not really feeling very sexual towards him and he's kinda upset about it, he said that not having sex with him means that I'm jealous. Which in all honesty I'm not, maybe a little bit, but I'm more upset and just feel like I can't trust him. Also he seems to use the word "jealous" like is a crime. I think is normal to feel jealousy, the important thing is how you handle it.
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Again actions and words mismatch, and worse he Gaslighted back onto you saying that your feelings were the problem, not his behaviour.
You aren't jealous of someone you didn't even know existed. You're keeping your health safe after finding out it might not be. The very LEAST he could do is get tested ASAP, that is a more ACTION based solution that proves trust because then he shows sincere remorse and admittance to what he did and putting your needs flirt.

Sounds like he's putting his sexual needs first in all cases, both in cheating, and now blaming you to get you to have sex with him.

Alodia said:
I already told him very clearly that I don't want this to happen again. That this is simply not the type of relationship that I want and that if he wants me around he needs to do a lot better. He said he was sorry, but... I kinda felt like he meant he regrets things are like they are. Don't really have the feeling he thinks he did nothing wrong, he has a very unapologetic attitude.
I said to him that honesty and an open line of communication is the only way I really see our relationship growing, getting to really know each other and achieving true intimacy.

I don't know. This sucks.

Again, thanks so much for your answer. It gave me perspective and made me feel better
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Trust you gut on this, if you feel he's not being genuine. Then trust yourself on that. If his actions are also saying he's not being genuine, by not getting tested and lying that she wasn't an important part of his life. She was important enough to go to motel rooms with have sex multiple times, and text back and forth regularly.

I'm glad it helped :) Take care of you <3
 
Magdlyn said:
This may sound ridiculous, but who stole your phone? I'd almost suspect he did, so you'd need to borrow his, and end up seeing messages from this secret gf, so he could enjoy torturing you with the revelation.

Call me crazy, lol, my mind just went there. Narcs love trouble. They love to feel their women are fighting over them. It makes them feel big and powerful and desirable.
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This so much. My ex husband would take my phone to work then put it back on my bed stand after I spent all day looking for it, so he could make sure I wasn't texting anyone, and then say it was there all along and make me feel *crazy* took me years to unravel his crazy. He was the one having affairs in the end!:mad: My ex isn't a narc, he's Histronic's Disorder diagnosed. But same type of playing field just slightly different music.
 
Ravenscroft said:
Cheaters cheat, liars lie.

You've caught him out not in one mistruth, but a whole string of whoppers.

What's he gonna lie about next? STD testing? causing a pregnancy? moving a new girlfriend in? getting married on an out-of-town trip? smoking meth? throwing your stuff on the curb while you're out?

:rolleyes:
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Well put, Ravenscroft. You raise a valid point. You are making me really think about what's my limit here? Thanks a lot.
 
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