Zeggplant is back (with a lot of questions)

[Zeggplant]

Sounds like you're doing good and have a direction.

About Be... and please take this with a healthy bucket of salt - I don't think monogamously very well at all, and I don't tend to separate sex/relationships from life at large.

That previous line said...

For me, a partner I can depend on is one who will accept me as I am. Whether it is me leaving the laundry for the maid (or whoever wishes to do it) or me enjoying interacting with people I am attracted to. Definitely his comfort and acceptance is important to me, but I don't really place specially different points on whether I can't tell a partner that I blew my budget buying something I really wanted or that I am attracted to another man. If there is something I do or am that I have to hide from a partner for fear of the reaction (disagreement is fine, control or anger is not), I take it as a sign that this person does not have the capacity to survive a relationship with me with his sanity in place. Because I know I am independent minded and I don't take well to tiptoeing around people.

Having some areas to be careful of is understandable. When you bring two people together, there will be some give and take, some issues that impact each other and so on. It is your call to decide what is important to be accepted and how much. But if you're rescuing someone all the time and you can't count on them if you need a shoulder to rest your head on, you need to ask yourself whether you are looking to adopt someone or share your life with them.

In your place, I wouldn't assume what Be's response would be, but initiate a simple conversation about how you feel sometimes. See how he responds. If it doesn't go well, it was just a thought you shared, it isn't like you did anything. But you now have the information to see whether his reaction/response is something you can live with - or, decide how you will proceed with disengaging and finding relationships where you feel accepted better. You don't even have to conclude you are poly (though you sound like it) - simply describing what actually happened is definitely you. Can he accept you as you are?

I agree with you in a way, and I have to say the only reason I've been depressed and anxious recently is that I can't talk for now, I can't be myself, because I fear I could potentially destroy my relationship (and all that revolve around it, our families going well together, my young siblings who just adore Be as well as my mom, our lifestyle...) just by being myself.

On the other hand, with someone as damaged as Be I don't think it would be wise to say upfront that I may want to share my heart(s?) with several partners in the future. I always thought of our relationship as a slow work in progress and I was okay with it being a lifelong project. The idea was that, since we want to spend our lives together, we have all our time to help each other heal and grow, take baby-steps by baby-steps.

I'm curious though : what makes you think I'm poly ?

 

[anamikanon]

I'm curious though : what makes you think I'm poly ?

I am not saying for sure you are or not, but going by the fact that you are here, you have described a process in quite detail where you clearly wanted to engage and pursue the relationship. You describe recurring such feelings - to me it seems like you don't sound "done" with seeing/seeking romance after the partner you have. While you don't act on it for various reasons, you are aware of your interest.

 

[Zeggplant]

I've finally started feeling better...!

Hello everyone!

I think I have made some great improvements since I last posted. I think my brain mixed everything I've been told, from this forum, my therapist, my friends... And I had an 'eurêka' moment two days ago.

I haven't had the opportunity to begin the discussion yet, but that's not the most important here.

When I was 17, and entered college, I had several romantical experiences. I even was a two-timer at some point. And when I decided it was over, it was over. I felt no shame nor guilt when breaking up, since I was listening to what I felt and needed.
When I talk about that period, I usually start by saying 'Eh, you know, I used to lack consciousness of others... I was a monster, truly!'
The years after that time I developed an acute sense of others' pain and suffering and started feeling too much guilt about any actions I could take, especially with my partners. It took me two years to stop feeling guilty about breaking up with my ex. I never regretted leaving (it really wasn't working anymore) but I did feel extremely bad for making him suffer. Was that a way to punish myself? I don't know.

Anyway, I thought about that and realized I had to stop doing that. Right now, what's making me miserable is the irrational need for an immediate resolution of what's going on. Unfortunately, trying to come out or at least engage a discussion about polyamory in a mono relationship takes time. So my brain somehow decided to explore all (negative) outcomes there would.
As I stated, Be adds as much to my family as I add to his. And his mom is severely depressed, and my mom started talking with her and trying to cheer her up (did I ever say how awesome my mom is...?). My grandparents are so happy to know that I'm settled and no longer in depression, and since both of them have health issues...

Well, all that made my brain imagine all sort of terrible outcomes. Be being heartbroken, my family rejecting me, my grandparents having too strong emotions about this and their health being impacted my it...
Yeah. As if everything revolved around me.

I understand now that our families being involved and happy with us being together is collateral. What truly matters is my wellbeing, then Be's wellbeing, then our mutual wellbeing. Everything else is out of my control.

So, here's the new plan:

Concerning Zeggplant
I shall now use techniques that I used to master in order to quiet my mind anytime I begin overthinking and making catastrophe scenarios. Living in my bubble has its good side, but since it means that I emotionally live the situations I make up in my mind, and that recently I made up a lot that involve me causing emotional pain to others... I'd rather come back to Earth from time to time.
I'll also have to make sure I'm not just burying my needs away by not thinking about it. It is temporary and I'll need to be honest with myself, meaning I won't just 'forget' I have this craving for more. And when the time comes, I'll start the next part of the plan.

Concerning Be
As I said, a friend of mine was totally okay with starting the discussion by giving her own example. Her new boyfriend agreed to an open relationship so she can experiment stuff he can't give her (she used to be in abusive relationships and never had the opportunity to explore her sexuality for example). It'll help us start talking about open relationships and poly.
I'll have to specify that while I used to be incredibly jealous and insecure, I now have grown up enough to trust my partner entirely. Having desire, physically or emotionally, for other people isn't a threat in itself as long as everything is said in honesty.
Be may disagree entirely. And if so, I'll have to accept that and make a choice. I am not there yet, thus I don't need to imagine it for now. However, I have to keep in mind that if we ever find a compromise it'll take plenty of time.

I started this thread by telling my age. I am young, so is Be. We have time.
I'll have to thank many of this forum users for this understanding. I read many of your stories and realized that I have no idea what my life will be like in a year. Maybe I won't be with Be anymore, maybe we'll still be in negotiations, maybe we'll be in an open relationship. But that doesn't even matter: for now, he's here, and tonight when I get home I'll hug him.

Thank you all for your responses, I'll keep you updated.

 

[Zeggplant]

I have made some progress in my thinking, so I thought I might as well keep you updated. This may or may not be connected to the fact that I can't focus on my reading right now and that I am obsessed with my new thoughts... ^_^

A lot happened since the last time I posted.

Regarding my physical health, my eczema got better. I don't really know why, but I'm relieved anyway !
Regarding my mental health, I jave discovered two things:
- I have a huge ability to cope with traumatic events
- I probably (definitely?) have ADD

The 1st one I had the proof because 3 weeks ago a friend tried to kill herself, and I was the only one she told. I had her on the phone while she was on the verge of jumping from a bridge. Called 911, she got hospitalized, she's "good" now. It happened while I was at work, I had no one to replace me, had to smile goodbye to people leaving the building. It was tough. A doctor made me stay at home the next few days during which I listened to myself, and after a deep confusion that lasted a few days, I got back on my own two feet. It was a traumatizing experience, but a meaningful one too.
The 2nd one helped me understand myself better. I now understand why I cannot form habits. Why I am always exhausted during the day evening though I sleep well and enough, and why I am energetic by 8pm until I go to bed. And it somehow helped me understand why the idea of lifelong commitment is terrifying. I don't feel as guilty as I used to about being absent-minded all the time, and I finally understand that I'm not just some lazy girl that never cares about anything or never tries hard enough.

All this doesn't really have something to do with poly, but it's part of the evolution that happened.

So, yesterday I was reading GalaGirl's blog and it really shook me. I realized that I frequently get sad over the fact that Be doesn't know all of me. It's like I wear a mask or maybe a partial veil that only shows what I feel he could approve. He's not entirely responsible for that.

I am sort of a chameleon, you know, whenever I meet someone I "like" I instantly have the intuition of what behavior I must have to make them like me too. I don't control that, it's my natural behavior. But that means I always hide parts of me to people, which is okay maybe for family and friends, but Galagirl's post made me realize that this leads nowhere with a romantic partner.
Add to that what happened in the beginning of our relationship - Be wasn't helpful with my mental health, he lashed out on me emotionally instead of talking through the issues, belittled a few times. This reinforced my habit to hide some part of myself that I sense could frowned upon.

And here comes Galagirl's blog, with such common sense...! Of course, a mono-poly relationship can work, as long as both partner involved respect and accept each other, and as long as they own and express their needs/limits clearly. But as soon as one refuses to see/accept the other as a whole but to only accept/see what they like, then it cannot work properly ! That has nothing to do with being poly or mono...

Last week I went to one of those events that I organize. I put on a nice dress, make-up, hair, I made myself pretty (and I loved it !). I went to the bar with the clear intention to be flirty and seductive, 'cause that's something I really enjoy. Be wasn't there - of course - but everyone knows I'm not single. So I could play/flirt with guys (....and girls) there who knew perfectly nothing would happen. And it was so nourishing and great !
I realized yesterday that Be doesn't even know that. That I like being flirty. That I enjoy teasing and being teased, just for the sake of playing with people - meaning we play with each other.

How can I expect him to accept who I am if he doesn't even know me ? Well, here's something I can work on. Babystep by babystep.

 

[Zeggplant]

Here are some detailed thoughts I've had. I hope you'll react on them, it really helps me see clearer !

What I want in the future (and what I hope I can construct with Be) :
- I want to be able to talk to my partner about my crushes when one comes. It doesn't have to evolve into a real relationship - I can't date ALL my crushes, that would be insane lol - but that doesn't mean I have to keep it secret. Not with the man I want to spend my life with.
- I want to be in a relationship where I can be proud of my charisma and own it. I do not want to feel ashamed of my ability to attract people. I want my partner to be proud of who I am and what I can do.
- I want to be allowed to talk about the temptations I come across, and find a common ground so that I can experiment from time to time. I don't know if I really want to date others - I'll see when I get there - but I know I want to experiment some stuff so that I know myself better.
- I want my partner to know me. The whole me. I have finally understood that I cannot be happy if I only share a part of who I am. By doing that I deny myself the right to be sad when Be doesn't understand/accept me. How could he if he doesn't have access to some parts of me ?
- I want to help Be grow and heal from his old wounds. I want to help him feel secure - in a healthy way - and become able to express his needs and limits. I feel he's been harshly wounded and ignored in the past, and I've seen the progress he's made since we met. He worked a lot on himself for me - for us - and I truly appreciate that. I have myself made a lot of progress too and I now want to teach him to be secure and free to express himself. Isn't that what love is about ? Help each other grow ?

What is already great :
- Be is now strong enough to support me when I'm down. He's been wonderful when my friend tried to kill herself. He took care of me, gave me space when I needed it, hugged me and listened to me when I needed to vent. He accepts that sometimes I feel depressed or anxious over little things - and sometimes nothing. I can tell him whatever I need to feel better, whether it is hugs, food, or solitude, and he respects those needs.
- I have friends with whom I can talk about those flirty moments and what I want. They help me see the kind of conversation I lack with Be, which helps me keep in mind the changes I want to make in our relationship.
- Be is more receptive to what I ask for physically. He still plays full vanilla but has a true will to make me enjoy our intimate moments. And... it works. It works pretty well ^_^.
- I understand myself better and really enjoy the ride on the "discover yourself" rollercoaster. I've suffered, and it'll hurt again eventually, but it's worth it.
- I accept myself better. I see more clearly what I want and need. It's not just "I am tempted and don't like to be frustrated", there's much more than that. The more I understand, the more I accept myself. Which is the only way to have others accept me too.

What I need to work on :
- My self-esteem and confidence. It fluctuates for now, so sometimes I feel I deserve great things and other times I feel I deserve nothing. It's normal, I used to depreciate myself all the time and it's hard to erase those habits. But I'm getting to it.
- My communication with Be. It's really our huge issue. I don't know how to progress in this. We can have great conversations about futile things - and sometimes, but it's rare, more serious things. But sometimes he just doesn't respond when I talk. It's not that he's annoyed, he just doesn't know what to say. He receives the information I say and that's all. No questions asked, no comments. It's really frustrating, and it makes me sad. So, yeah, we have to work on that. I have to assess my need of him responding when we talk.
- Accepting who I am whatever that is. I enjoy flirting. That doesn't make me a bad person. That doesn't make me a cheating person. I enjoy this sort of interactions, and that's all. I may be interested in kink or poly dating. That's wishes, not actions I have against my partner's will. I am not cheating on him in any way and I have no reason to feel guilty.
- Take time for myself. Between work, self-discovery, coffees with friends (some of them being suicidal or depressed) and volunteering, I don't have a lot of time for myself. I'm on several battlefields at once and need to take care of myself. Or even better, let others take care of me when they offer it.

As always, thank you so much, to all of you. I had no idea I would grow up so fast thanks to my questioning and to this forum... It's awesome !

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Zegg, it sounds like you are making good progress and on your way toward meeting your goals. I would say your biggest challenge right now is communicating with Be. Not just Be's responses, but the things you have to hide from Be right now, especially the subject of polyamory. Even if you don't know whether you're poly, it's at least a part of your life and thinking. You don't want to hide that from Be.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[mostlymonogamish]

- I probably (definitely?) have ADD

I now understand why I cannot form habits. Why I am always exhausted during the day evening though I sleep well and enough, and why I am energetic by 8pm until I go to bed. And it somehow helped me understand why the idea of lifelong commitment is terrifying. I don't feel as guilty as I used to about being absent-minded all the time, and I finally understand that I'm not just some lazy girl that never cares about anything or never tries hard enough.

Hi, Zeggplant. I'm a long-time lurker and newer member here. I've also struggled with ADD for the entirety of my life. If you'd ever like to chat about resources, strategies, or meds, I'd be happy to share what I've learned.

 

[GalaGirl]

I understand now that our families being involved and happy with us being together is collateral. What truly matters is my wellbeing, then Be's wellbeing, then our mutual wellbeing. Everything else is out of my control.

Glad you have come to realize this.

Also glad you were able to clarify some other things for yourself and be more comfortable living authentically rather than keeping parts of you "hidden behind a veil."

I hope things look up for you!

Galagirl

 

[Shaya]

Hi zeggplant

I've enjoyed the evolution of your thread and your thoughts. You've really taken the time to get to know yourself.

I had one small comment to make regarding the flirting. Flirting can mean different things to different people. Infidelity also men different things to different people. One definition of infidelity I particularly like is from a book by Shirley Glass called "Not just friends". She defines infidelity as any emotional or sexual intimacy that violates trust. In this definition, if your flirting with others is something that would make Be uncomfortable, then it has probably gone too far. One helpful way I find to see where the line is, is to imagine what my wife would think if she could read the email I wrote to the other girl, or if she could watch my interaction with my work colleagues. If I experience discomfort at the thought, then I'm not being honest with either myself or with my wife.

Not sure if that's of help for you, but if you want to understand more of how close you can be to your true self while not sliding into activities that might hurt Be, I find the book I mentioned above to be really useful.

Good luck,
Shaya.

 

[Zeggplant]

Glad you have come to realize this.

Also glad you were able to clarify some other things for yourself and be more comfortable living authentically rather than keeping parts of you "hidden behind a veil."

I hope things look up for you!

Galagirl

That's easier said than done, but I hope with time and patience (...and courage) I'll be able to show my true self to the people that matter to me

 

[Zeggplant]

Hi zeggplant

I've enjoyed the evolution of your thread and your thoughts. You've really taken the time to get to know yourself.

I had one small comment to make regarding the flirting. Flirting can mean different things to different people. Infidelity also men different things to different people. One definition of infidelity I particularly like is from a book by Shirley Glass called "Not just friends". She defines infidelity as any emotional or sexual intimacy that violates trust. In this definition, if your flirting with others is something that would make Be uncomfortable, then it has probably gone too far. One helpful way I find to see where the line is, is to imagine what my wife would think if she could read the email I wrote to the other girl, or if she could watch my interaction with my work colleagues. If I experience discomfort at the thought, then I'm not being honest with either myself or with my wife.

Not sure if that's of help for you, but if you want to understand more of how close you can be to your true self while not sliding into activities that might hurt Be, I find the book I mentioned above to be really useful.

Good luck,
Shaya.

Hi Shaya !

When I say 'flirt' it's really just a game, with people who know me, and with no consequences. I'd say I enjoy playing a 'flirty role', say bold things while looking straight into someone's eyes. In my way of seeing it, it's a game that's not supposed to create any bond between me and the person I do that with. We pretty much pretend to flirt, and it stops as soon as the gathering ends : there's no flirty texts or email, no phone call... After all, it's just acting ^^

The thing is, I cannot guess when Be is uncomfortable. Sometimes he makes "jokes" about my girl friends being too flirty with me (it's been a running joke that I have a harem with 2-3 girl friends) like when he says "Well okay I'll leave you two alone, I see I'm not needed here". I'd gladly find a common ground but as long as he doesn't say clearly that something's bothering him I can't do anything.

I've told him several times that whenever something bothers him he has to tell me, and that I trust him to tell me. I also insisted that he is my number one priority (comparing to my friends and family I mean) and that I will always listen to any objection he can have. But he has to tell me, of course...

But I appreciate your warning, and you're right : I should always keep in mind that while I know the limits of my flirt-game, others may not, and I must remember that some (Be or others) may see it as cheating. I'll have to discuss that with Be himself though. Ah... I have so much to work on...!!