Mono husband poly wife with a married couple

[mmmdonuts]

I am new to this lifestyle, I have not come across other poly people in my circles and I want to be sure this is something I'm 100% happy to persue so here I am for advice.

So a very very long story short..

The wife and I are really great friends with another married couple (both have young kids as well) and over time the wife and he let's call him *greg* have made an emotional connection bond and have shared some questionable moments with each other when backs are turned and me and his wife have been turning a blind eye too and I've had enough.
I've seen how happy she is with him and she has shown that she loves me and it's leading me too considering giving the Wife permission to officially persue a relationship of sorts with *greg* if she wants as she has made this emotional connection with him that I've tried to break many times over.
She tells me he meets an intellectual emotional need for her I'm not providing and I'll admit they do have a great deal in common more than we ever do but that's not to say I don't provide her other needs.

His wife however seems Mono like me but we all have a healthy sexual appetite talking and doing adult stuff (nothing sexual) but as emotions are involved we think swinging with them is out of the question as we want to remain good friends.

I'm happy for my wife to spend time in a don't ask don't tell relationship with rules and bounderies of course with *greg*.
But I'm not overly confident *gregs* wife wants to share her husband in this way but she could be a fence sitter but time after time again and again she's thrilled to see him happy with my wife.

I'm certain of my feelings for the wife perusing a relationship with *greg* as I trust her and know she genually is in love with me however I do worry at times as he seems to be very unhappy in his marriage and is perhaps staying with his wife for the kids alone but I recognise that he might have needs his wife isn't providing for him and no I'm very sure it's not a sexual thing.

My wife has always been honest about her feelings for him, an open book infact. Texts/phone calls, lunches and social media etc.. And when any hanky panky has occurred but he's always played it down on his feelings to his wife for my wife, he isn't very honest with her about it even when my wife tells him to come clean to his wife, what's frustrating is his wife won't listen and denies anything about him making excuses for his behaviour living in denial but wants them to be close and at this stage we are hoping it's just her freaking out and she may come round someday.

I do worry my wife might want him over me as primary or leading to someday walking away from me so they can run away together but that could happen anyway i suppose

Are we headed for trouble? Should we all just walk away from this and How can I be sure this situation isnt really a red flag or his intentions are and will always be the same as my wife, that this will always be a secondary relationship only and how can we slowly get his wife to acknowledge she's not providing something he needs as well and this might be good for them both.

 

[Achimwis]

Greetings to you, donuts.

For some of what you are asking, I am afraid that the short answer to some of it is, "You can't." There's no ensuring that *greg* will always want to keep his relationship with your wife as a secondary relationship. As you acknowledge, the status of your relationship could change anyhow, regardless of your actions.

At the end of the day, can you rest your attitudes towards your wife's other relationship on your perception of what *greg's* wife might be willing to let happen? Perhaps it is just me, but I think that a lot of this is your wife's decision. Is she ok having a relationship with *greg* if his wife doesn't approve?

Or is this something your wife wants?

Just a couple thoughts. Hope clarity comes.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

It doesn't seem as if Greg's wife is being treated with much respect. There is another situation recently where the wife in the other couple basically got booted to the curb. If Greg is minimizing his relationship with your wife to HIS wife, that should be a red flag.

Don't be those people. If Greg and his wife are unhappy, your wife having a relationship with him is cruel and could blow up in your faces.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

I might be wrong. But it sounds like

• There is you. Mmmdonuts.
• Your Wife... Call her Cupcake.
• Greg, the other husband.
• And the other wife... call her Peaches.

(I have a hard time reading without some kind of names. I'm willing to go with the ones you want so feel free to change the names.)

The wife and I are really great friends with another married couple (both have young kids as well) and over time the wife and he let's call him *greg* have made an emotional connection bond and have shared some questionable moments with each other when backs are turned and me and his wife have been turning a blind eye too and I've had enough.

My wife has always been honest about her feelings for him, an open book infact. Texts/phone calls, lunches and social media etc.. And when any hanky panky has occurred.

but he's always played it down on his feelings to his wife for my wife, he isn't very honest with her about it even when my wife tells him to come clean to his wife,

what's frustrating is his wife won't listen and denies anything about him making excuses for his behaviour living in denial but wants them to be close and at this stage we are hoping it's just her freaking out and she may come round someday.

That sounds like...

• Greg and Cupcake have been friends and now there's been some kind of hankypanky or cheating going on.

• Initially you turned a blind eye, but it sounds like you asked your wife what's going on. Cupcake has been up front with you about it. You are willing to consider Open marriage so she can date Greg openly and cleanly and stop with this hankypanky thing.

• Greg has not been honest with his wife about it. He plays down his feelings for Cupcake when talking to his wife, Peaches. If he tries to tell her anything at all.
  • How's Cupcake feel about that?
    • Is this behavior she can respect or feel proud of?
    • When he minimizes/isn't honest with his wife... this behavior makes him a trustworthy person to date how? )
  • How do you feel about that?
    • Is this behavior you can respect or feel proud of?
    • When he minimizes/isn't honest with his wife... this behavior makes him a trustworthy person to be friends with/a metamour with how?

• Cupcake wants Greg to come clean with Peaches.
  • Does she want to come clean herself about the hanky panky?
  • Apologize to Peaches for jumping the gun and stop doing hanky panky with Greg?
  • Not date Greg until all players' consent has actually been obtained?

• If Cupcake doesn't want to own her part in the situation making, how do you feel about that? Is this behavior you can respect or feel proud of?

what's frustrating is his wife won't listen and denies anything about him making excuses for his behaviour living in denial but wants them to be close and at this stage we are hoping it's just her freaking out and she may come round someday.

I think you could tell your wife she isn't putting her best foot forward here. I can understand getting carried away and jumping the gun, but it sounds like maybe there's still time here to try to make it right.

Has anyone said point blank...

"Peaches, are you up for participating in a poly network? Where the married couples are married, but Greg and Cupcake also date each other?"

I think that needs to happen before anything else proceeds.

I don't think it's a good idea for Greg and Cupcake to keep on "hankypanky-ing" or whatever it is they are doing behind his wife's back. If she's his wife and friend, and she's Cupcake's friend... how's this behavior friendly toward Peaches?

There is no getting around the fact that now you have been made an accomplice to their hankypanky/secret keeping. All well and good that your wife is now being honest with you, so YOU are not being kept in the dark. But now you know that Peaches is being kept in the dark. Supposedly your friend. Did you change blind eyes? You are going to turn a blind eye to you helping to keep Peaches in the dark? How is that behavior friendly behavior toward Peaches from you?

Keeping secrets that could hurt someone or are hurting someone -- that's not a good thing to do in friendships. Also not the best foundation for trying to build a poly network with these people.

I think Greg and Cupcake could approach Peaches AND you more honestly and apologize to you and Peaches for jumping the gun and try to do it right this time. They could obtain consent from all players before they start getting more deeply involved. Then things are clear and above board.

Either ALL the players are up for it and you proceed.

Or ALL the players are not up for it and you do not proceed and remain friends only.

Or after discussion, you find some are up for it, and some are not. So you pause to let people who need to get off this bus out before it tries to drive on to PolyTown with the ones who DO want to take the trip on board. You don't hijack people without telling them.

Any of those is more honest than continuing to sneak around behind people's back.

Galagirl

 

[mmmdonuts]

Thanks everyone for your honesty and thoughts everyone i really appreciate it! i just feel the need to unload to see if my head space is right atm or my idea of Poly / mono is waaaay out of whack

I might be wrong. But it sounds like
There is you. Mmmdonuts.
Your Wife... Call her Cupcake.
Greg, the other husband.
And the other wife... call her Peaches.

This is Brilliant lol, well move forward with this. I wrote this really early in the morning sorry if it was confusing to people.

where cupcake and i are at now is kind of the start of another chapter for us and I feel like i need to fill in you guys and summarize some other parts to this story as what wrote above sort of sits at chapter 3 in my book.

Chapter 1 - Cupcake told me she loved Greg..., i made sure immediately Cupcake and i cut off all communication with him,Peaches and their kids as i classed it as cheating regardless of anyone feelings as i was hurt.
Cupcake and Greg wailed like baby's not taking it too well and Greg would not let up with weeks of phone calls, texts and emails as he claims he just wants to get along for the kids sake and the great friendship we all shared. Eventually cupcake couldn't help herself but keep contact from time to time as she misses him.

Chapter 2 - I really missed our friendship with Greg and Peaches.. so did our kids so after 3m break and a stern chat with Cupcake we got reacquainted with Greg and Peaches and we were all happy again for a while until Greg and Cupcake started getting involved again. I didn't know what to do but knew that on some level if my wife is happy with Greg and has not shown me any disrespect and been totally open and honest about her feelings, it struck me as seeing her happy and fulfilled made me really happy. I took this and ran and decided to sit Greg and Cupcake down and have a chat that i'm open to the idea of her and him dating but i wanted in with his Wife as i felt close to her as well. Sort of used the situation as a leg in the door for swinging with them be it wrong or right.

Chapter 3 - (and now the part you guys loosely already know) Cupcake got frustrated with Greg as he was not coming clean with peaches about his feelings and the hanky panky stuff, i got frustrated as Greg did not have the balls to come clean with Peaches and Peaches would not would not listen to me or Cupcake about what she and Greg were up too. So cupcake Calls it off with Greg and Peaches. I thought this was very honest and the right thing to do as well , i was a little pissed because Peaches was keen on swinging but not necessarily with Cupcake and i (although we often joked about it)

chapter 4 - We have since moved away but visit the town Greg and Peaches live in often and have been working on a mono/mono marriage trying to rebuild trust and getting on with our lives . We have done lots of research working on our marriage and we have worked out the emotional need Cupcake was not or can't get with me. She still emails Greg from time to time, hes pretty hot for cupcake still too and someday wants us all to be together.

If i had the slightest incling that cupcake was ready to leave me for Greg and no longer in love with me over the past year or being secretive about things i'd let her go but she hasn't been. We have such a great relationship and both very much in love with each other. (Sexually and emotionally) I'm a sensitive bloke and understand peoples needs and feelings ( well i try too ) she seems so happy with him when they talk and then with me even happier after, she seems fulfilled.

So here i am today wondering if it's a really bad thing if i just give her the OK the date Greg hoping Peaches will come round one day ( really hope so) we could all be one happy Poly family best case scenario but to be honest i don't mind staying mono as it fills my heart with happiness to see her so happy and fulfilled

Cupcake wants Greg to come clean with Peaches.
Does she want to come clean herself about the hanky panky?
Apologize to Peaches for jumping the gun and stop doing hanky panky with Greg?
Not date Greg until all players' consent has actually been obtained?
If Cupcake doesn't want to own her part in the situation making, how do you feel about that? Is this behavior you can respect or feel proud of?

I'm going to sit down and have a chat with Cupcake soon and have a chat but i'm pretty sure we will both agree that Greg needs to get consent from Peaches too, its really a no brainier.

I know this isn't supposed to be a mono relationship corner therapy but what if Peaches says Nope never going to happen, what if then Cupcake and Greg won't stop communicating it feels like still cheating to me sometimes this way. Perhaps i should acknowledge her poly needs and suggest she goes and finds someone else, help her with this.

 

[Magdlyn]

You will find a range of feelings here around cheating. Most agree that true poly consists of open loving relationships where all people involved approve of and consent to the loving relationships between them. That understanding would demand that Peaches be aware of and approve of the loving sexual relationship between her husband Greg and your wife Cupcake.

However, we do get new members here in your situation where one of a group, like this, like Peaches, doesn't give full consent to her husband dating another woman. Or sometimes a similar thing happens where someone in Peaches' situation will say they are OK with it, yet show their true feelings and insecurity by acting out in passive aggressive ways to make things uncomfortable for everyone.

I feel like Peaches must be aware of how much Greg cares for Cupcake. It seems like they are fairly open about it. Some people in our culture would rather be cheated upon than consent to open polyamory. Poly is such a new concept, whereas cheating is so common. People would rather stick their heads in the sand and compartmentalise and pretend nothing is going on.

Just the same, I, personally, wouldn't be comfortable if MY wife (and I do have one, I am in a long term FF relationship) was in love with a partnered guy and HIS wife wasn't on board with it all. I've also dated a man who was dating a MF married couple, and that couple was full of jealousy around him, competing for his affections, and it was very icky and I had to stop dating that man.

It says something about Greg's character if he can't or won't discuss the state of affairs fully enough with Peaches to get her consent, or, failing that, break up with her and date your wife cleanly.

It sounds like there is a lot of innuendo and flirting and "maybe we can swing as a foursome, maybe not." It sounds like Peaches might like swinging but isn't attracted to you. There is also the factor that all your kids have become close friends...

I hope Cupcake and you can convince Greg to lay it all on the line with Peaches. I feel the 3 of you are well on your way to polyamory (not swinging), whereas Peaches is in another headspace. This imbalance would bother me a lot. If I were in Cupcake's shoes I wouldn't be able to to "hankypanky" without Peaches' consent.

 

[mmmdonuts]

What should i do if peaches does not agree to a poly relationship but wants us all the be friends but Cupcake and Greg can't seem to keep their hands off each other and if so should they bothwalk away from each other if they can't accept we are just all friends with no benefits.. Perhaps I should let Cupcake go as I'd feel miserable and used.

What if I just let them keep in contact and agree to let her go on the odd very rare date with Greg.

Sorry very new to this, I would love to be in a poly relationship so any tips to win over peaches would be appreciated.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more details.

In the end though, it doesn't sound like Peaches consents to Greg and Cupcake hanky-pankying. It's basically cheating. Call it what it is.

It's almost like Peaches is in the the shock/denial stage of grief and she's gone numb. And you are at the bargaining stage of grief where you are trying to figure out what's in it for you or how you can spin it to yourself so it hurts less.

Cupcake calling it off with Greg? Probably the best thing to do. I suggest she LEAVE it that way and you guys stop all contact with them. Put your best foot forward. Not continue this mess.

If you and Cupcake want to move on to poly? You could wait to do it til you are totally healed from this cheating thing. You yourself do not sound well. On some level you seem to know it, because you are here seeking help.

So I suggest you heal with Cupcake first, do more reading and learning, and then move on to poly with people who do "have the balls" to do it up front and clean. And have the balls yourselves. Put your best foot forward instead of sneaking around. Quit going behind people's backs.

Why continue to mess with these people?

• Greg doesn't have the balls, but is willing to cheat on his agreements with his wife. This makes him an awesome poly partner how? If he cheats on his mono agreements, what makes you think he wouldn't cheat on his poly ones? You are aware that poly is not "cheat proof" right?

• Peaches sounds like she's in shock and denial. How's this make her an awesome poly partner right now?

This is not healthy. I would let these people go entirely and do some more talking with Cupcake. Appeal to her better nature. This is not best behavior. I think somewhere inside she probably knows it.

So stop pussyfooting around it, and have the conversations you really need to be having.

So here i am today wondering if it's a really bad thing if i just give her the OK the date Greg hoping Peaches will come round one day ( really hope so) we could all be one happy Poly family best case scenario but to be honest i don't mind staying mono as it fills my heart with happiness to see her so happy and fulfilled

It's not "dating" if all involved parties do not consent. It's "cheating." Just that you are aware of wife having the cheating affair.

If Peaches is really clueless, how do you figure she will "come around" if she learns her friends have been doing this behind her back?

"Peaches, me and Cupcake have been cheating behind your back. It's been going on for ___ months. Mmmdonuts knew and was ok with it, but didn't tell you. You are cool with this, right?"​

If she's in shock/denial stage of grief, how do you figure she will "come around" if she learns her friends have been continuing this? Drop a bomb, and then just keep carrying on while she is processing hard stuff?

Not your best foot forward. I encourage you to stop all that and let this couple go.

I know this isn't supposed to be a mono relationship corner therapy but what if Peaches says Nope never going to happen, what if then Cupcake and Greg won't stop communicating it feels like still cheating to me sometimes this way. Perhaps i should acknowledge her poly needs and suggest she goes and finds someone else, help her with this.

You could tell your wife that you don't love this lingering cheating situation.

That she got herself into a cheating thing, then ended the cheating thing, and now keeps contact with the cheating partner in what seems to be an emotional affair. Like...dialed it down but didn't really stop. You could ask her if she's willing to stop all contact and really stop.

If she wants to poly in a clean way, you are up for discussing that. But you are NOT up for some lingering cheating thing.

If she refuses to stop and wants to continue cheating with Greg in some emotional affair? You could tell her you are disappointed with her behavior and that you do not consent to participate in that.

Then back off. Possibly separate for a time to think things out. Evaluate your own relationship with Cupcake.

• Can you feel proud of Cupcake when she behaves this way and carries a cheating affair?
• Can you respect Cupcake when she behaves this way?
• If she's willing to throw Peaches under the bus... do you wonder if there will come a time where YOU are the cheated on partner?

Not fun stuff to think about. It sounds like you already know the answers though.

What should i do if peaches does not agree to a poly relationship but wants us all the be friends but Cupcake and Greg can't seem to keep their hands off each other and if so should they bothwalk away from each other if they can't accept we are just all friends with no benefits.. Perhaps I should let Cupcake go as I'd feel miserable and used.

You sound like you do not want to be with a partner who cheats/continues to cheat. It makes you really sad/disappointed if Cupcake turns out to be that kind of person. But you know you would have to walk away and let Cupcake go if it comes down to that. Because you do not enjoy feeling miserable and being used.

You would leave with regrets, but you would walk away. You would say "I love you a lot, but not even for you will I stay in something that hurts me."

I wonder if that's what you are trying to come to terms with. Grief that it may come down to that.

And you are bargaining things in your head trying to avoid it coming down to that.

What if I just let them keep in contact and agree to let her go on the odd very rare date with Greg.

This is you "bargaining" still.

I think somewhere deep down you know that would still be you going along with Greg cheating on Peaches with Cupcake. It is not them poly dating "clean."

Stop all this mess. REALLY repair with Cupcake. And you guys choose to move on to poly, get better educated and do it CLEAN with people who are actually willing and able. Do some reading, especially pitfalls.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/
https://www.morethantwo.com/

Galagirl

 

[mmmdonuts]

Thanks again for the advice, it's given me something to think about. I really appreciate it.

 

[GalaGirl]

Most welcome.

I am very sorry you are dealing in cheating affair fall out. I can imagine it's not fun.

I'm going to sit down and have a chat with Cupcake soon and have a chat but i'm pretty sure we will both agree that Greg needs to get consent from Peaches too, its really a no brainier.

I hope your talk with Cupcake goes well. I hope she realizes this is all a messy way of going and she chooses to stop behaving this way.

If she chooses to keep on with mess, I hope you decide you are going to get YOU out of the line of fire and you walk away from it. Just because Cupcake decides to do mess doesn't mean you have to sit in it.

Still though... not fun.

Galagirl

 

[Ravenscroft]

Some people in our culture would rather be cheated upon than consent to open polyamory.

Yah, definitely. And conversely, there appear to be plenty of people who would rather have the thrill of a furtive affair than any sort of stable obvious relationship.

(I knew a vee that began from a cheating husband. The girlfriend didn't know he was married (this wasn't the first time he'd played that card). When the affair came to light, the wife & girlfriend met to figure out how to proceed, decided they actually got along very well, & they'd all relocate as a unit & begin from scratch. A year in, both women suspected he was getting "the roving eye," & laid down the law: "we're doing fine, & YOU can be replaced." They got the feeling he was a serial cheater, rather than nonmonogamous. He did settle down a bit after that.)

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

[i was a little pissed because Peaches was keen on swinging but not necessarily with Cupcake and i (although we often joked about it)]


(Sorry; I STILL can't figure out how to do quotes right!) This really bothers me. Even if Peaches entertained the idea of swinging, what right do you have to be pissed that she wasn't interested in the idea of swinging with YOU?

Maybe she doesn't want to damage the friendship the four of you have? A friendship that the other three of you don't seem to value in any way, demonstrated by secrecy and emotional infidelity, at the expense of Peaches?

 

[Shaya]

Hey Donuts,

Love the name, by the way.

I feel that Magdlyn and GalaGirl have shared some great insight into your situation and feel that even I've learnt something about myself in reading what they've said. I feel that a transition from monogamy to polyamory via an affair needs to happen slowly, at the rate of the slowest person, and that person is currently Peaches. I'm not surprised she finds herself unable to swing with you guys. From Peaches' hurt vantage point, she may feel that Greg and Cupcake have caused her hurt, which could make swinging difficult.

If you don't mind me asking, I was wondering how strong your monogamous relationship with Cupcake is or was. I find that as a forum, we often counsel newcomers on whether they should continue poly, break it off, seek couples counselling and so on based on only the information you provide us. We rarely seek to ask more questions and when we do, we only rarely seem to ask "how strong is your monogamy?" I feel we rarely do so because the answer is so subjective - most would say "I feel we are solid." In light of this, I recently started a new thread displaying a relationships vulnerability quiz and was wondering if you and your wife had the time to give it a go and let me know what you think of the quiz. You may (or may not) feel you have to rewind time to before all this mess happened and take the quiz as if you were seeing it a few months/years ago when you were still monogamous. I hear you say that you and your wife have worked on the hurt from the affair and feeling stronger now. I was hoping this quiz may serve you as a mirror to see how far you've come. More selfishly, I was hoping your feedback on the quiz could help me tailor it so that newcomers might find it more useful.

Kind thanks, with best wishes for your future,
Shaya.

 

[mmmdonuts]

Ok..So i had my chat with Cupcake and it went really well. Such a tricky subject undoubtedly to talk about.. started with something like, "Hey i think its time to admit your into poly but me a mono and i strangely am curious, love you enough to respect that and want to give this a go! ended up with her really owning it and talking to Greg on the phone to state her feelings for him, were she and I stand and if he wants a relationship with her he needs (After processing whats on the table) to have the "Talk" with Peaches to see if if is something she would be keen to try at least. Cupcake sure sure Greg knew full well that if she was keen that she and Peaches would be having a serious chat together to make sure she was OK with it before taking it further with a sit down chat with all of us together.

We have roads and roads to go.. i know but i think its finally a solid CLEAN start , we want to take our time respecting peoples feelings and especially considering young kids are involved and Peaches and Greg both agree that there is No Way in hell that they would be ever Primary, their kids and family are everything and whilst they have a strong bond they are both in love with whom they married.

I feel like Peaches must be aware of how much Greg cares for Cupcake. It seems like they are fairly open about it. Some people in our culture would rather be cheated upon than consent to open polyamory. Poly is such a new concept, whereas cheating is so common. People would rather stick their heads in the sand and compartmentalize and pretend nothing is going on.

This is Spot on how Peaches did see the situation initially but after Greg and her saw a Marriage counselor they had a revelation that being Magnogamish is what they wanted, they did try to tell me but my head was not in the right place at the time. (Months ago) So she and i are now more understanding about it and finally acknowledging Greg's feelings and Cupcakes.

So i hope my situation still fits in this sub forum group , just to clarify it's a Monogamish relationship we are seeking with them not a full on Poly. I'd like to leave this post here tho so others who are going through similar situations can get something out of it.

[i was a little pissed because Peaches was keen on swinging but not necessarily with Cupcake and i (although we often joked about it)]


(Sorry; I STILL can't figure out how to do quotes right!) This really bothers me. Even if Peaches entertained the idea of swinging, what right do you have to be pissed that she wasn't interested in the idea of swinging with YOU?

Maybe she doesn't want to damage the friendship the four of you have? A friendship that the other three of you don't seem to value in any way, demonstrated by secrecy and emotional infidelity, at the expense of Peaches?

Pissed off is not the word i should have chosen to use, more like disappointing but my head was in a bad place then, in the gutter and its different now also i never held or made my feelings clear on that with them it against Peaches or Cupcake was just my own thought.

Just remember all this is happening over a year feelings and mindsets are not changing willy nilly.

Hey Shaya, more than happy to take your quiz great idea!

The Quiz suggests Cupcake and i are in a safe Harbor the only thing we really fall short on is We don't have much in common in regards to Political, Social and Cultural ideals. We don't get into debates or discuss those things as we often end in an argument as we have such strong different opinions. In saying that tho we have so much in common in a lot of other areas and emotionally and sexually we are very Ripe.
I often joke with her tho that its amazing we ever found each other given how different opinions we have and if we were searching for love on eharmony or the like we would not have been matched lol

We are very much in love tho we certainly don't go through life bickering and get along well.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad your talk with Cupcake went well.

...ended up with (Cupcake) really owning it and talking to Greg on the phone to state her feelings for him, were she and I stand, and if he wants a relationship with her he needs (After processing what is on the table) to have the "Talk" with Peaches to see if if is something she would be keen to try at least.

Cupcake (made) sure Greg knew full well that if (Peaches) was keen, then (Cupcake) and Peaches would be having a serious chat together to make sure (Peaches) was OK with it before taking it further with a sit down chat with all (four) of us together.

(Took liberty of editing for clarity in blue)

I think this plan is a better way to go. Even if Greg and Peaches are not up for this, this is a better approach to anyone else in future you might want to build some kind of network with. No more cheating/hanky panky stuff behind people's backs or avoiding having hard conversations/turning a blind eye.

More up front, honest, DIRECT communication.

GL!
Galagirl

 

[mmmdonuts]

OMG how the mighty have fallen... - Geez some people must get the Popcorn out and read a lot of drama on here lol -

So After a 3m hiatus of not talking..

Last night i reconnected with Peaches via a Private message, then all 4 of us got talking on FB messenger. Turns out Greg and Peaches after some marriage counselling have been busy indeed and are both sleeping with another Poly woman on a casual basis. found this out after i laid down the law to peaches stating what i felt comfortable in this situation... (us 4)

Basically this means she has dealt with the Grief and moved on to a Poly/Poly open marriage.. This sets me back a bit as it's what i was sort of after back in my previous post.

I just want us all to be one Poly family and they seem to possibly be up for that and obviously we will sit down at some stage and work out hard and soft limits.

I'm guessing Greg and Peaches want to still be Poly with other people should they choose, Peaches and i don't have too much of a problem as we like to swing with other people too on occasion but we all agree our partners will and always be our primary's

I'm trying to label this but having trouble now.. is it swinging, does it matter if it's Cupcake and Greg in together in a Emotional relationship and when all together we have a Rule that if 2 want to play we all play?

Arrggh so conflicted right now sure it does not look like a true relationship of any sort and just swinging but it's a start for what Cupcake and I want to work towards yeah?

 

[Marcus]

found this out after i laid down the law to peaches stating what i felt comfortable in this situation... (us 4)

I don't know about laying down any law, but it's certainly a good idea to get expectations out in the open early and frequently (they change).

That way, if expectations don't line up we can make adjustments to whatever our situation is until they *do* line up.

I'm trying to label this but having trouble now.. is it swinging, does it matter if it's Cupcake and Greg in together in a Emotional relationship and when all together we have a Rule that if 2 want to play we all play?

Having a label won't help but to give people a shorthand for how your relationship configuration works. If that's why you care about this labeling business, then I suppose I'd suggest you guys are: An open quad, with clearly defined hierarchy. Or something like that. It sounds like you guys are in flux anyway, so I'd just pick something close and move on because it might not be an accurate description for long.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from mmmdonuts):

"I am new to this lifestyle, I have not come across other poly people in my circles and I want to be sure this is something I'm 100% happy to pursue so here I am for advice."

I recommend Franklin Veaux's Poly FAQ page, it will help you to decide if you're 100% happy to pursue poly.

 

[GalaGirl]

What is it you want?

• MmmDonut + Cupcake = share friendship + share love + share sex
  
• MmmDonut + Peaches = share friendship + share sex?
  
• MmmDonut +Greg = share friendship?

Something else?

Rather than stress out about "what to call it" consider what it is you want to share with these people. Ask them what they want to share with you. Figure out if these are compatible things or not.

Ask if this is going to be a Closed system with no other players, or an Open system where other players might come and go (for sharing friendship, love, or sex), or a mixed system where some are "end points" and Closed to any more people, and some are Open to seeing more people.

When is too many people for the system?

What happens if some want to bow out, and some want to keep going? What if it ends up breaking down to everyone single? And not like "back to original couples." Then what?

When talking about agreements.... figure out why you need them.

when all together we have a Rule that if 2 want to play we all play?

The purpose of this agreement is what? Can't the 2 that want to play just go play on their own? Why or why not?

but we all agree our partners will and always be our primary's

The purpose of this agreement is what? What happens if this model gets outgrown by someone? Do you talk about changing to co-primary model? Or break up with the one who wants more? Do they know that is the expectation going in?

In case it helps...

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/models-of-open-relationships

It's not definitive, but perhaps it gives you enough models to talk.

You might like to talk about these worksheets also.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

More Links:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
https://www.morethantwo.com
https://www.morethantwo.com/making_relationships_suck.pdf

Keep talking and keep taking it slow.

HTH!
Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

OMG how the mighty have fallen... - Geez, some people must get the popcorn out and read a lot of drama on here lol

Believe me, some of us regulars who do more than blog do enjoy reading the ups and downs of others. Being new to poly is usually a rollercoaster of human emotions, dashed expectations, etc.!

So, after a 3 month hiatus of not talking,...

Far too long for comfort, but I am glad a lot more is out in the open now!

...last night I reconnected with Peaches via a private message, then all 4 of us got talking on FB messenger. Turns out Greg and Peaches, after some marriage counselling, have been busy indeed and are both sleeping with another poly woman on a casual basis.

Sorry, but I find this really funny! haha I am glad you found out!

I found this out after I laid down the law to Peaches stating what I felt comfortable with in this situation... (us 4)...

As Marcus said, there is no "laying down the law." That implies you are the Leader and all must conform to your wishes.

Basically this means [Peaches] has dealt with the grief and moved on to a poly/poly open marriage.

Or non-mongamy at least. If they are just "playing casually" with their shared lover, they aren't necessarily polyamorous, just yet. Maybe Greg is, since he seems to have deep feelings for Cupcake. Jury is still out on Peaches, though.

This sets me back a bit as it's what I was sort of after back in my previous post.

heh

I just want us all to be one Poly family...

Whatever that means!

... and they seem to possibly be up for that...

Which may be different from what you mean!

... and obviously we will sit down at some stage and work out hard and soft limits.

I'm guessing Greg and Peaches want to still be poly with other people, should they choose. Peaches and I don't have too much of a problem, as we like to swing with other people too on occasion, but we all agree our partners will always be our primaries.

Marriages do end. This might be your fervent wish, but there are no guarantees in life, especially considering the wildly divergent political, social and cultural views of you and Cupcake.

I'm trying to label this but having trouble now... Is it swinging? Does it matter if it's Cupcake and Greg are together in an emotional relationship and [but?] when all together we have a rule that if 2 want to play we all play?

Play? Ugh. Let's be serious, this isn't playtime. If you want to be one happy poly family, it's damn serious. If YOU want it to be one poly family, but the others all want something more mutable, what then? BTW, do you really WANT one big "poly" family, or do you just want to get into Peaches' pants?

Arrggh so conflicted right now! Sure, it does not look like a true relationship of any sort and just swinging, but it's a start for what Cupcake and I want to work towards, yeah?

Yeah. If you don't want only swinging with Greg and Peaches, it's not swinging. If you want to FORCE Peaches to "play" with you just because your wife and her husband care about and desire each other, that is unethical and damn icky. It sounds like Peaches has found a woman she likes to play casually with (not sure, but it sounds like she and Greg, so far, only play as a threesome with their new partner, let's call her Alice). But she still doesn't want to "play" with you, nor do I see agreement from her and Greg that your "law" about forced sexual foursomes is in any way attractive to them.