Mono needing advice

[Ravenscroft]

It's a pretty common error, unfortunately, to tag every "wanting to f*ck more than one person" instance as "polyamory"; even on this board it drifts by regularly, often unquestioned.

ElleInOntario, from what you say, pretty much everything your husband is doing is NOT POLYAMORY. Lying, dissembling, ignoring the needs of extant relationships... any ONE such is enough to disqualify a person (& maybe their relationships) from being anything at all like polyamory.

He needs to accept that his behavior is self-destructive. He needs to recognize that his behavior is exposing the people around him to harm. He needs to take responsibility for change.

If he can't/won't, then you need to find distance from him, at least until he gets his sh!t together, but possibly permanent.

it certainly sounds like this could be a manic episode due to underlying bipolar disorder.

Agreed. But short of him getting arrested & being sentenced to therapy, it's still up to him to seek professional help, AND to conscientiously follow up with treatment or meds or whatever.

 

[dingedheart]

The thing you learn in Al-Anon (for people who love an alcoholic) is that one first step in saving yourself is through owning up to your own part in the relationship. We have a strong tendency on this forum to blame the almighty NRE (which is usually blaming the other partner) for wreaking havoc on the relationship, when in truth there are always two people involved - two people who are actively contributing to the direction the relationship is going in. It's essential for a person who feels that "NRE" has hurricaned through his/her life to take a few steps back and evaluate his/her part in the relationship and try to see how things got to where they are. It is never one person's "fault." Never.

Seems like good advice to gain an overall prospective of how people operate in a particular dynamic but I reject the idea that thoughtless acts or decisions under the influence of NRE or drugs or alcohol are or have a shared blame. From the fact presented in this case I can't make any logical leap in which the op had any part in his decisions or his judgement. All cases of NRE gone a muck that I've heard of or those I've been lucky of to be on the receiving end of are based in the selfish nature of the person committing the act. I can't really think of a single case in which the victim had a hand in those decisions. Could you explain the logic trail in which the OP gets a portion of the blame for him having under protected sex and getting and STD or him being so obsessed with his new lover he got fired from his job ?

 

[FallenAngelina]

Either you think that relationships are always a two way street or not, dingedheart, so if seeing your part in how things evolve doesn't work for you, then leave this approach on the floor. Personally, I don't see any good ever come of assigning people victim and perpetrator roles. That approach doesn't help me understand myself and it doesn't move me forward to a happier relationship, it just creates anger, guilt and resentment all around.

 

[lafayettejeffersona]

I'd say that you should tell him to go mono for a month to see if things cool down and than poly for a month and see if anything's changed. My cousin did that and it worked out

 

[FallenAngelina]

Seems like good advice to gain an overall prospective of how people operate in a particular dynamic but I reject the idea that thoughtless acts or decisions under the influence of NRE or drugs or alcohol are or have a shared blame.

Of course, every person is responsible for his/her own actions, but Al-Anon is not about learning to deal with people who are acting under the influence. It's about taking responsibility for your own life and your own part in the entire relationship. It's a wonderful general life improvement program for anyone who wants to find independence from needing others to change before he or she can find peace and happiness. Loving an alcoholic is just an extreme version of what many of us do: look to other people's behavior as the source of our ill or well being. Seeing your own part in an unfolding relationship and in specific interactions is a key component of finding this freedom.

 

[dingedheart]

Either you think that relationships are always a two way street or not, dingedheart, so if seeing your part in how things evolve doesn't work for you, then leave this approach on the floor. Personally, I don't see any good ever come of assigning people victim and perpetrator roles. That approach doesn't help me understand myself and it doesn't move me forward to a happier relationship, it just creates anger, guilt and resentment all around.

What if you believe both? . I believe relationships are a two way street AND I beleive people can act in stupid thoughtless ways which can and does hurt people. There are victims some times. I don't agree with the opinion that if I got T boned in and intersection by some guy running the red light that it's partially my fault for taking my car out of the garage and putting it on the road.

I get your point and I don't disagree with the greater vision of your point I just think it doesn't exclude reality.

Of course, every person is responsible for his/her own actions, but Al-Anon is not about learning to deal with people who are acting under the influence. It's about taking responsibility for your own life and your own part in the entire relationship. It's a wonderful general life improvement program for anyone who wants to find independence from needing others to change before he or she can find peace and happiness. Loving an alcoholic is just an extreme version of what many of us do: look to other people's behavior as the source of our ill or well being. Seeing your own part in an unfolding relationship and in specific interactions is a key component of finding this freedom.

I know absolutely nothing about the Al-Anon program, clearly a successful program by the fact it's been around such a longtime. If one applied these teachings or principles to a person experiencing poly hell what's that look like?


To me it sounds like you're suggesting a couple of things. 1) .. is your wife or husband was a thoughtless pig before you married him or her and he hasn't changed much just taken it over the top. Bad choice on your part. 2) boundary enforcement. Taking yourself out of the equation when bad behavior is displayed.

 

[FallenAngelina]

If one applied these teachings or principles to a person experiencing poly hell what's that look like?

I advocate this approach for anyone who wants a stable, harmonious, meaningful, intimate and authentic life in general. Nobody has to wait for poly hell or addiction before he/she decides it's time for a relationship overhaul or a tune up. Genuine harmony (not just "getting by" or "keeping the peace") in a relationship comes about when each participant keeps to his/her own side of the street, as we say in recovery parlance. Bitching about the other person's wrong doings not only keeps the relationship focused on the negative, thereby inviting in more negative, it bolsters the illusion that one person is "good" and the other is "bad," which is never the case. All relationships and all interactions are co-creations. In every interaction and in every relationship, we have choices about how we think and act.

We talk about NRE on this forum like it's some magical mist that comes shooting out from Merlin's wand, falling all over our relationship and wreaking havoc with all concerned, turning a harmonious relationship upside down. In a genuinely connected, harmonious relationship in which there is a long established generosity of spirit between the partners, no outside force can swoop in and play Loki. Yes, NRE is a powerful and real experience, but how it takes shape in relationships has everything to do with what's been brewing in those relationships. Same with affairs, BTW. Nothing and nobody can come bursting out of the bushes and upturn a strong, honest and genuinely intimate relationship. When one partner feels ongoing blame at the other for a problem, and likewise when the other feels ongoing guilt (usually accompanied by resentment,) this is a clear signal that each partner is in a danger zone. Unless the couple wants to break up (usually to move on and repeat the pattern with a different partner,) the solution is always to pull back and take a look at one's own attitudes and behaviors. Assigning each to a role of victim or perpetrator, asshole or angel, good guy or bad guy, does nothing for building intimacy, but instead always furthers the divide.

 

[PinkPig]

I know absolutely nothing about the Al-Anon program, clearly a successful program by the fact it's been around such a longtime. If one applied these teachings or principles to a person experiencing poly hell what's that look like?


To me it sounds like you're suggesting a couple of things. 1) .. is your wife or husband was a thoughtless pig before you married him or her and he hasn't changed much just taken it over the top. Bad choice on your part. 2) boundary enforcement. Taking yourself out of the equation when bad behavior is displayed.

This kind of sums it up for me. It's about looking at yourself...learning how to find your serenity within & through your spiritual connection with your higher power. When you've done that, then when others act in ways that are disconcerting to you or circumstances are less than favorable,you aren't thrown off balance/out of harmony, like you are when you attach your emotional well being to another person.

It's also about learning healthier ways to interact with others. Yes, that means enforcing boundaries and getting yourself out of the line of fire. But, it also means adjusting your expectations (to make them more realistic), looking at how your own reactions exacerbate or create problems and learning how to react in healthier ways. Also, understanding the other person's struggle, and treating them compassionately. And so much more. That's just a brief explanation.

 

[dingedheart]

I advocate this approach for anyone who wants a stable, harmonious, meaningful, intimate and authentic life in general. Nobody has to wait for poly hell or addiction before he/she decides it's time for a relationship overhaul or a tune up. Genuine harmony (not just "getting by" or "keeping the peace") in a relationship comes about when each participant keeps to his/her own side of the street, as we say in recovery parlance. Bitching about the other person's wrong doings not only keeps the relationship focused on the negative, thereby inviting in more negative, it bolsters the illusion that one person is "good" and the other is "bad," which is never the case. All relationships and all interactions are co-creations. In every interaction and in every relationship, we have choices about how we think and act.

We talk about NRE on this forum like it's some magical mist that comes shooting out from Merlin's wand, falling all over our relationship and wreaking havoc with all concerned, turning a harmonious relationship upside down. In a genuinely connected, harmonious relationship in which there is a long established generosity of spirit between the partners, no outside force can swoop in and play Loki. Yes, NRE is a powerful and real experience, but how it takes shape in relationships has everything to do with what's been brewing in those relationships. Same with affairs, BTW. Nothing and nobody can come bursting out of the bushes and upturn a strong, honest and genuinely intimate relationship. When one partner feels ongoing blame at the other for a problem, and likewise when the other feels ongoing guilt (usually accompanied by resentment,) this is a clear signal that each partner is in a danger zone. Unless the couple wants to break up (usually to move on and repeat the pattern with a different partner,) the solution is always to pull back and take a look at one's own attitudes and behaviors. Assigning each to a role of victim or perpetrator, asshole or angel, good guy or bad guy, does nothing for building intimacy, but instead always furthers the divide.

I think this brings brings us back to the topic of poly as a soft transition to divorce because the if you had genuine, stable, intimate, honest communication you might not have the need for other romantic relationships and also the poly bombs wouldn't be so shocking or jarring because all such needs would be throughly discussed.

From my experience no one waits for full blown poly hell to voice displeasure.
How much displacement was expected vs how much you feel. How much intrusion is felt before you voice a concern. Here's the tricky part a segment of these folk legitimately try to get with the new program. They read the books and articles, participants/ ask questions on the forum and yet genuinely communicating their thoughts /feelings /concerns doesn't seem to cut through the NRE fog. Or you get lip service back " sorry I didn't realize I'll try not to do that again or as much". And then it happens again or something else happens which reinforces the element or elements of poly hell.

With all that surrounds intimate romantic relationships I'm not sure what you mean by sticking to my side of the street. Isn't there an incursion into my side of the street. Didn't going from just the 2 of us to the splitting of zero sum resources ...time, attention, money mean I could be facing less co-creating ? An unknown person or people could effect my health, could impregnate my wife and thus changing our family dynamic and I'd be legal responsible for said child, could hurt or abuse my wife and again injuring the family at large. Don't those spill onto my side of the street? And discussing such topics might come across as negative or bitchy but how do you remain honest and genuine and avoid such things ?


Do you feel most couples who arrive here out of a ploy bomb blast are in a danger zone ?

 

[FallenAngelina]

Do you feel most couples who arrive here out of a ploy bomb blast are in a danger zone ?

I wouldn't be able to say where most of these couples are in their relationships, but I am friends with a couple in my everyday life who has gone through this transition. The husband and I are particularly close, so I've had an inside view to the "poly bomb" that his wife dropped about a year ago. Certainly, they both have had passing feelings of anger, guilt, resentment and fear, but those were short lived in the initial "explosion." They have more than successfully transitioned from a 10 year mono marriage to an all-in, whole hearted poly marriage.

In my view, a relationship doesn't drastically change because of a "poly bomb," so much as it is more deeply revealed. The "bomb" can't make anything appear out of nowhere, but it does bring a lot of long-brewing, deeply buried feelings out into the open. Much like the partner who surprises another one day with "I want a divorce," it's not really a surprise unless there's an emotional distance that the partners have not been willing to acknowledge. Same with an affair. These kinds of "bombs" are not really surprises if the partners are willing to be honest about the quality and depth of their intimacy. And intimacy is always a shared creation. Two people make intimacy and it's an aspect of a relationship that is created every single day. One partner can't create whatever quality of intimacy without the other. Our social world is full of ways to blame our partners for ruining relationships, but that is never true. It always takes two, creating every single day, making choices every single day. Nothing in a relationship ever comes out of nowhere.

 

[CTF]

I wouldn't be able to say where most of these couples are in their relationships, but I am friends with a couple in my everyday life who has gone through this transition. The husband and I are particularly close, so I've had an inside view to the "poly bomb" that his wife dropped about a year ago. Certainly, they both have had passing feelings of anger, guilt, resentment and fear, but those were short lived in the initial "explosion." They have more than successfully transitioned from a 10 year mono marriage to an all-in, whole hearted poly marriage.

In my view, a relationship doesn't drastically change because of a "poly bomb," so much as it is more deeply revealed. The "bomb" can't make anything appear out of nowhere, but it does bring a lot of long-brewing, deeply buried feelings out into the open. Much like the partner who surprises another one day with "I want a divorce," it's not really a surprise unless there's an emotional distance that the partners have not been willing to acknowledge. Same with an affair. These kinds of "bombs" are not really surprises if the partners are willing to be honest about the quality and depth of their intimacy. And intimacy is always a shared creation. Two people make intimacy and it's an aspect of a relationship that is created every single day. One partner can't create whatever quality of intimacy without the other. Our social world is full of ways to blame our partners for ruining relationships, but that is never true. It always takes two, creating every single day, making choices every single day. Nothing in a relationship ever comes out of nowhere.

So you don't think it's possible for one partner to have deep connections, feelings or even love towards someone who wasn't being their true selves? Support someone was just really good at hiding who they were, and partner "b" falls in love with who they thought they were... Not only does it happen, but I have personal experience with it. People also change, as everyone here acknowledges... sometimes it happens very rapidly. How often do we hear about people who fall in love very quickly? To the other partner, these bombs actually do tend to come out of nowhere.

 

[Marcus]

So you don't think it's possible for one partner to have deep connections, feelings or even love towards someone who wasn't being their true selves?

Whether or not someone can have strong loving feelings toward someone who is secretly living a lie, doesn't speak to the presence of intimacy within the context that FallenAngelina is explaining.

Those feelings of closeness (even though they are one sided) are quite precious I'm sure, but it is only half of a relationship. It's this gap that makes a "bomb" explode and appear to cause so much destruction.

 

[CTF]

Whether or not someone can have strong loving feelings toward someone who is secretly living a lie, doesn't speak to the presence of intimacy within the context that FallenAngelina is explaining.

Those feelings of closeness (even though they are one sided) are quite precious I'm sure, but it is only half of a relationship. It's this gap that makes a "bomb" explode and appear to cause so much destruction.

I guess it depends on which side of the equation we're talking about. For the one dropping the bomb, you might be right. But for the other partner, there is no distinction between real intimacy and fake if there is no sign of a gap ever displayed. This happens all the time when someone keeps a secret so well, that no one knew otherwise. To claim that there is never a victim is absurd

 

[BathedInSalt]

Holy shit!


I'd be livid and dropping the hammer by now....

Same. This is being handled horrendously. I would be looking for deeper roots for these seemingly symptomatic actions. I'm new, but from what I understand you can't transition without a secure foundation any best.

 

[FallenAngelina]

This happens all the time when someone keeps a secret so well, that no one knew otherwise.

If one partner can keep a secret so well that the other has no inkling that something is different or unsettling going on, I'd say that there was not deep, genuine intimacy in this couple already. There has to have been an emotional divide that had been growing for quite some time, whether it was apparent to the partners or not. Many couples fall out of genuine intimacy and don't even realize it until something drastic happens to make this obvious. Yes, the partners had come to recognize each other in certain expected ways, but deeply intimate? No. It's not possible for one partner to be deeply, genuinely intimate and the other not. Intimacy is something that two people build and nurture together or let erode together.

 

[CTF]

If one partner can keep a secret so well that the other has no inkling that something is different or unsettling going on, I'd say that there was not deep, genuine intimacy in this couple already. There has to have been an emotional divide that had been growing for quite some time, whether it was apparent to the partners or not. Many couples fall out of genuine intimacy and don't even realize it until something drastic happens to make this obvious. Yes, the partners had come to recognize each other in certain expected ways, but deeply intimate? No. It's not possible for one partner to be deeply, genuinely intimate and the other not. Intimacy is something that two people build and nurture together or let erode together.

Respectfully, I have to disagree. Intimacy, like love, can be one sided. If partner "a" believes & trusts partner "b" to be sincere, his/her feelings of trust & bonding are in no way negated. The feeling of giving & receiving intimacy is the same. Granted, when partner "a" learns the truth, he/she will likely feel like an idiot, and try to retrace where things went wrong. But sometimes, there is no defining moment up until the bomb blast. I will say, however, I was in a fog trying to grieve my dad, but there were certainly never any signs until jersey came into the picture. My problems don't go deeper than poly, because poly was what created the problems. Poly is the one thing that we as a couple would never be able to overcome.

But I digress... the fact is, there are moments in relationships where things start to go south. Sometimes they take time to detect, other times they're noticed right away... who says that every rocky relationship has some long standing unnoticed trouble brewing?

 

[FallenAngelina]

Respectfully, I have to disagree. Intimacy, like love, can be one sided.

I'll agree to disagree with you, too. I have only the laboratory of my own life to go on and in my experience, relationships go much, much, much better and significant transitions go much, much, much more smoothly and harmoniously when the partners turn away from the blame-guilt or perpetrator-victim model of conflict and instead embrace a generous, compassionate spirit of "we did this together." In all of my years, I have never observed or been involved in a one sided intimacy that was truly a genuine intimacy.

 

[dingedheart]

I wouldn't be able to say where most of these couples are in their relationships, but I am friends with a couple in my everyday life who has gone through this transition. The husband and I are particularly close, so I've had an inside view to the "poly bomb" that his wife dropped about a year ago. Certainly, they both have had passing feelings of anger, guilt, resentment and fear, but those were short lived in the initial "explosion." They have more than successfully transitioned from a 10 year mono marriage to an all-in, whole hearted poly marriage.

What about your own marriage. Did your husband see this coming ??

In my view, a relationship doesn't drastically change because of a "poly bomb," so much as it is more deeply revealed. The "bomb" can't make anything appear out of nowhere, but it does bring a lot of long-brewing, deeply buried feelings out into the open.

This sort of run counter to the standard poly counseling. That being ... The old marriage/ old relationship is dead and gone and a new one has to be forged out of the creator. I would guess every situation is so vastly different and the motivations are all different that each partner would have to judge for him or herself how minimal or how drastic the changes that they are being asked to accommodate.

Much like the partner who surprises another one day with "I want a divorce," it's not really a surprise unless there's an emotional distance that the partners have not been willing to acknowledge. Same with an affair. These kinds of "bombs" are not really surprises if the partners are willing to be honest about the quality and depth of their intimacy. And intimacy is always a shared creation. Two people make intimacy and it's an aspect of a relationship that is created every single day. One partner can't create whatever quality of intimacy without the other. Our social world is full of ways to blame our partners for ruining relationships, but that is never true. It always takes two, creating every single day, making choices every single day. Nothing in a relationship ever comes out of nowhere.

IMO this is too simplistic and painting with a broad brush. And it over looks the fact the fact that life ( messy stuff ) happens and sometimes people ( my ex wife for example ) would use the death of her dad or death of her brother for her disconnect or job related issues or 347 other things.

Intimacy as a shared creation .....yes great concept. How does one judge the quality of that shared experience? How do we know how intimate / genuine how honest your partner is being.

Some people as a result of their experience of not seeing it coming, then a bad NRE experience on top of that will start looking back and start questioning everything. They simply have no confidence if anything that person says or said. To me that's a learning curve issue not a shared blame issue.

 

[Magdlyn]

Background - I'm mono, Mr is poly(ish). We opened our relationship a few years ago so he could meet new people and play. I wasn't thrilled with the idea but I've gotten through it and things have been good.

My only rules were..

1) Family First (we have kids)
2) use protection (we're fluid bonded and don't want to change that)

I know rules aren't popular here but these didn't seem too outrageous, and he agreed.

A few years ago you opened your relationship at his request. But you made the rules. Sensible basic ones: safer sex, kids' needs first. He agreed, supposedly.

No one here would call your rules too strict. We would object to them being "your rules" and not ideas agreed upon by 2 adults, fully aware of their benefits.

So, he followed those rules up until 4 weeks ago, when he suddenly went mad!!! He fucked a messed up ex with no condoms! He got obsessed with new lovers(s) to the point he lost his job, and he neglected his injured child!!!

Yikes! Is this completely out of the blue? He just went around the bend with no patterns of prior misbehavior? I'd be worried, extremely worried.

Maybe he is mentally ill. Some have suggested bipolar disorder. But that is usually a life long illness, from childhood. Perhaps it's something else, even a brain tumor. He needs medical help. He needs to see a good doctor immediately for a full checkup and testing, to rule out a physical problem.

Here we go...

1) The Camping Trip
He was invited out west on an all-expenses paid camping trip by an ex of his who's obsessed with him. He's had to block her from social media and can't give her his cell # because she'll message him 30 times a day. I thought he was insane for going and told him so, he laughed it off and said he was only going for the free vacation, he wasn't going to be intimate with her (riiiight).

The day after he gets back he tells me they had unprotected sex. Unprotected sex with a woman who's been in love with him for 10+ years and is emotionally unstable. Stupid.

2) His job
He's on a few dating sites and chats with a lot of people. It's annoying but I can ignore it. The main problem is that it became a distraction at work, his boss and customers noticed, and 2 weeks ago he was fired (75k/yr w/benefits). Now he's concerned that he might not be able to find work in the same field and we'll have to move. Really f*cking Stupid.

3) Our Son
Last Friday after supper Mr and our 4 y/o were playing in the backyard. Kiddo tripped and hurt his arm. Seemed to be in a lot of pain so I took him to the hospital. I took him because Mr had a date and didn't want to cancel his plans. I was pissed (WTF your kid is hurt!) but didn't want to fight so I told him to go. Ended up being a broken elbow. Text Mr at 10:30pm to tell him kiddo will need surgery can he come home/whats his ETA. Tells me he'll let me know and then gets home at 3am.

4) Not a UTI
Mr and I haven't been intimate because he thinks he has a UTI. Hahahah nope! Gets checked out and its an STI from either Camping Chick or the woman he's been seeing for the past month or so (they've been having unprotected oral ). Normally I'd roll my eyes, maybe be grumpy at having to waste a day getting checked out, but right now with everything else going on I AM PISSED. Why the hell did he wait? It's been almost a month since he has unprotected sex with Camping Chick!

I've been trying to be supportive because he's upset about his job and worried about finances, but I'm so incredibly frustrated. I feel like he needs to take a break from dating until he gets his sh*t together and our relationship is stronger but I know it's going to be a huge argument.

Has anyone gone from open/poly to mono? Has the relationship survived? How do I go about this without sounding like I'm his mother and he's in a Time-Out for misbehaving?

I don't think our relationship can handle another big hit.

(*** This has all been within the past 4 weeks ***)

You sound sarcastic. "Yeah riiiight," "I'm his mother," "Stupid... really fucking stupid." These phrases indicate resentment, perhaps of long standing? Does this indicate a longer pattern of parent/child dynamic than you indicated earlier? If so, maybe his recent super fucked up behavior is not so sudden as you indicate ("past 4 weeks").

 

[FallenAngelina]

What about your own marriage. Did your husband see this coming ??

I didn't sit my husband down and drop a bomb so much as I spilled my guts one day after about a week of sitting on how I would tell him that I needed to open the marriage. Another man (whom I met in the PTA) had begun to show interest in me and in the beginning, I chuckled about this with my husband. He and I always had an emotional intimacy and so including him on the fun was just part of an overall closeness that we shared. I figured it was a passing flirtation, but the mutual feelings blossomed. I had always been open to the concept of a non-monogamous marriage, but my conservative husband would affectionately laugh at the thought. Very soon after the mutual feelings developed with PTA Dad, my husband sensed something was different and he asked me about it. That's when I had a difficult talk with him about my need for us to seriously consider poly. I don't know how people cheat because for me, it wasn't physically possible to sit on this secret for very long - maybe it was a week. I wasn't driven by guilt or ethics or anything other than I just couldn't contain such a secret. It didn't fit at all with the kind of relationship that my husband and I had - and though he didn't have words until we talked about it, he could feel that something was very different.

We bumbled our way through a year of poly, but ultimately it was not something that fit with our relationship. Of course, he had feelings of anger, but not really betrayal because he could see how my wanting additional partners was an extension of who he'd always known me to be - the experimental, questioning traveler. Likewise, I owned up to having chosen a conservative, ultra stable tenured college professor as my mate. Neither of us blamed the other for being who we'd always been and as we worked our way toward what was once unthinkable - separation - we did it with care. He did feel angry for a few months, but I didn't sink into guilt and instead let him have his distance. I think that anger is part of intimacy at times, as is fear and other negative emotions, but in a genuinely intimate relationship these feelings move through fairly quickly. Even as we were separating - and some days it was painfully so - we were intimately connected. It's no surprise to me that my husband found a wonderful new parter soon after moving out. She is a lovely woman and much better suited to his monogamous, stable, traditional preferences. My husband was an enormous stabilizing presence that I needed for creating a family, but I was never a "plant my flag forever" kind of person and when I suggested poly in our marriage, part of him was angry for sure but the bigger part of him was not surprised at all.

We're almost officially uncoupled now and ours is by far the happiest divorce I know. He's over here almost every day that he is not with his GF, who lives about five hours away. Many days, our kids are off doing their own things and it's him and me hanging out with the dogs. He's had his own place during the separation, but we kept the kids here and didn't do the typical "dad's place/mom's place" back and forth. The initial plan was for me to let him have his time here with them while I overnighted in his apartment, but my leaving the house during his visits was never really necessary. His GF has been here a few times, once for Thanksgiving, and it's not a breeze for me having her here, but my husband and I talk about it and are finding our way. I've dated this whole time and he's gotten to the point where he gives me very helpful relationship advice. We've even given feedback about the experience of being married to the other, which is enormously helpful going forward in our subsequent relationships.


So, yeah, there have been some mammoth changes and some pretty intense feelings, but no, none of this came out of the blue.