Diffuse a ticking time bomb - or not?

J

Jules

New member
I am a mono guy (or at least I used to be, not so sure right now). Around Christmas, my wife has come out to me as poly and told me she wanted to have romantic/intimate relationship with another man. During the last couple of months we have talked a lot about reshaping our relationship. We have been through every emotion known to mankind, we both made some serious mistakes – and have grown intensely close and intimate in the process. I am now starting to see that me setting her free is in fact liberating me. For me it is a two-steps-forward-one-step-back story, but it could work out really well.
But, my wife’s other man is seeing my wife (is it ok to call her MY wife, btw?) secretly. He is married and his wife knows nothing. He is afraid to tell her, because he is quite sure she will not be able to cope. He has got a lot to lose (relationship, kids, business, social network- which we share for a large part). I feel really uncomfortable with this, as it seems to me that we (my wife, me, her other man and his wife, be it unknowingly) are building our relationships with a time bomb ticking….

To me it seems I have two options:

1. I ask my wife and her other man to sort it out with his wife, so the time bomb is diffused. But, by doing so I would limit them in exploring and enjoying their new found love, which would feel very, very wrong… (not to mention that the time bomb could go off in the process);
2. I accept that a time bomb is ticking. Which also feels very wrong as it seems to me that we are all knowingly build our relationships on a flawed foundation and it is inevitable that we will all have to pay a heavy price later.

I feel I am stuck between two bad options. I need new perspectives to look at this. Perhaps someone here can help me see things in a different way and point me to a way of thinking that gets me out of this dilemma…

Jules

Oh, btw: I do fully believe in my metamour’s (is that the correct use of the word?) good intentions and sincerity of his feelings
 
Hi Jules,

Thank you for coming to the forums. I hope you find them useful.

I believe you are thinking on the right track. I'm sure coming to terms with allowing your wife a relationship with other men must have been difficult. You may want to look at Al99's intro story because it shares remarkable overlap with yours, including the timeframe.

I am equally concerned with you regarding the 'time bomb.' I do not have doubts as to your metamours affections for your wife, but that is not the issue. His marriage is in jeopardy. When this falls apart (and chances are that it will), your wife will be hurt, he will be hurt, his wife will be hurt, any potential children of theirs will also suffer. It is my opinion that a relationship built on lies and secrecy is exciting only in the short term and does not have a foundation for honest development. Something your wife and metamour may not have considered, is that their anniversaries, which should be happy, may instead serve as times of shame and regret as they remember the pain they caused those around them. On a similar note, if they can imagine people 5 years down the track asking them how they met, I'm told that those who had met during an affair often find it hard to talk about it, and don't smile and don't reminesce. My point being that shared memories of their current happy point tend to be marred by guilt and remorse.

Here's Mark's story from affair recovery. You may want to share it with your wife. It showcases a tragic tale of Mark and his affair partner, who fell in love, a deep deep love, but were unable to get together even after Mark finally divorced from his wife. His parents, brothers and sisters would not accept his affair partner. His children would not accept her either. His friends began to ostracise him. It's a tragic story that highlights the best and the worst of affairs.

Polyamory and affairs can look similar from the world of monogamy. But they are vastly different due to the consensual nature of polyamory. That is key. Without consent, multiple loves just ends up breaking multiple hearts.

That's just my opinion. But I hope some of it helps.
 
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Welcome. There is another option (and I'm sure others, just this one immediately comes to mind.) If you are uncomfortable enough with the situation, you could set the boundary that you will not be in relationship with someone who is not practicing ethical non-monogamy. This is the boundary I have for myself. In that case, I would remove myself from the relationship. I haven't always had this boundary....but the experience taught me that not having this boundary is detrimental to my own well being. Both in the fallout that inevitably happens when the cheating comes to light...and in the toll the cheating within the network, had on my mental/emotional well being. This boundary doesn't limit my partners' freedom.
 
Shaya is right. By saying the boyfriend's wife is "unable to cope," you are all taking away her agency and infantilizing her. This is not ethical polyamory.

I was once in a situation where I was lied to because the parties involved claimed I wouldn't be able to cope with the truth. Being treated like I was unable to deal with my own emotions was far, far worse than what was being hidden from me. The parties involved just didn't want to deal with the fallout from their own bad behavior.

You should voice your concerns, and let your wife and her boyfriend know that what they are doing is unethical. However, I don't see what you can really DO about it. This is their relationship. Don't be afraid of being a "party-pooper" though; they need to face the fact that they are deceiving they wife and are treating her unfairly.
 
Which do you think is worse? Totally screwing over the wife or not being able to explore each other. You better be answering the former because that is a horrible thing for your wife and her bf to do to his wife.

She can't handle it? No, it's more like he knows he is doing the wrong thing and his marriage will likely be over because of it.
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

I'm also sorry you agreed to (open marriage with wife dating her cheating BF). Why would you agree to participate in a network that has cheating in it? You have become an accomplice in keeping that other wife in the dark. I cannot imagine where you would like other people doing that to you. Why do it to them? :(

I'm sorry wife is ok with her BF cheating. Doesn't bode well. Because if he can cheat with her on the agreements he has with his wife? He can also cheat on the agreements he has with your wife. I would have hoped she'd pick a more trustworthy partner than that. Not get herself involved with iffy sounding people. Sigh.

Oh, btw: I do fully believe in my metamour’s (is that the correct use of the word?) good intentions and sincerity of his feelings
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If he has actual good intentions? The BF could make good on that FIRST. He could square things up in his household first so he can date your wife in a clean, respectful way. Not be jumping the gun or be cheating on his wife.

He is married and his wife knows nothing. He is afraid to tell her, because he is quite sure she will not be able to cope. He has got a lot to lose (relationship, kids, business, social network- which we share for a large part).
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To me that sounds like he is willing to see other people but is not willing to get his house in order first and go about it in a clean way. To me that would be a non-starter. I wouldn't want to take up with people like that. I don't know why your wife has a low personal standard for dating partners. I think she could raise the bar and weed the iffy people out better. But that is her problem. Not yours.

Her BF is trying to paint his cheating behavior with the "poly brush" like he is trying to whitewash his poor behavior. Does not sound like HE can cope with ethical non-monogamy. Not so much his wife. She isn't even being given the chance to cope with it. He's blaming her "inability to cope" to absolve himself of taking personal responsibility for his poor behavior. Blame shifting / passing the buck. Those are his problems though, not yours.

Your problem is that (you choose to participate in a cheating network.) That choice is now causing you suffering/upset. Sounds like your feelings are pricking your conscience and telling you that you are not being true to your values. That you are veering off course. You could listen then, and change your behavior. I think you could choose to stop participating like this.

2. I accept that a time bomb is ticking. Which also feels very wrong as it seems to me that we are all knowingly build our relationships on a flawed foundation and it is inevitable that we will all have to pay a heavy price later.
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You could pick choice #3: If you see a ticking bomb on the floor, you get away from it. Not hang out in the vicinity hoping someone else does something about it. You don't have to stay there to blow up with it.

I think you are best off saying to your wife "I cannot participate here any more unless this gets sorted out. This doesn't feel good to me. I'm bowing out. If you clean things up, I'll reconsider. " Then bow out. She either cleans things up or not.

You are responsible for your behavior choices. Wife is responsible for her behavior choices. Each person carries their own baggage.

She's the one picking this cheating guy out. Not you. Ask her to sort it out, and give her a time limit to sort it in. If not sorted by that time? Keep on bowing out -- even if it means separation or divorce. Because you are not willing to be in a cheating network.

If your wife cheats with her BF? Eventually you will wonder if wife cheats on you too. It's like pus in the system eroding trust. And eroding respect that you used to have for wife. It's hard to respect someone that you know is doing unethical behavior. If you do unethical behaviors yourself? You cannot be proud of that behavior and hold yourself in high esteem. So your self respect also erodes.

If she's taking up with a cheating person? She can either end it with him until he becomes a non-cheater and gets his house in order. Or end it with you and carry on with the cheater. Either way is "cleaner" for you -- you are out of the mess. You might not love bowing out, or love seeing your wife pick poor choices. But you can hold your head high about you not wanting to be involved in a cheating mess. You can respect your ethics with your choices even if other people are ignoring theirs.

If they hopped on the Cheating Bus? You don't have to take that ride along with her. You can choose to get off the bus. When all the choices are stinky? Pick the one that stinks less. I think the most ethical thing is for you not to participate in the cheating network any more. In future, resolve not to get involved with those again because you know they feel yucky to you.

You might agree to open marriage, but you do not agree to have cheaters in the network. You seem to recognize it is not ethical and it is not starting from strong foundations.

I ask my wife and her other man to sort it out with his wife, so the time bomb is diffused. But, by doing so I would limit them in exploring and enjoying their new found love, which would feel very, very wrong
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You choosing (what you will and will not participate in) is not (you limiting your wife's freedoms or choices). She's still free to carry on with this cheating dude if that's what she wants. But she cannot do so and expect you to just go along for the ride. Because YOU choose what kind of networks you do or do not participate in. Not her.

You don't sound like you want to be in a cheating network. So don't be. Have the courage to say "No. Not for me. That's where I draw the line."

Galagirl
 
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For me, it has to be an ethical, honest relationship, or it can't happen, can't continue. My wife feels the same way.

How would you feel if your wife - instead of coming out to you about her poly identity and including you in the process - had chosen to cheat on you with someone else?
 
central said:
For me, it has to be an ethical, honest relationship, or it can't happen, can't continue. My wife feels the same way.

How would you feel if your wife - instead of coming out to you about her poly identity and including you in the process - had chosen to cheat on you with someone else?
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I have a feeling this is at least close to what happened initially.
 
I look at it as a sheer matter of practicality.

Jules, there's an old adage that's really trite, & also pretty much a truism: Liars lie, cheaters cheat.

IME, it's likely that, once the NRE wears down, he'll start cheating on your wife.

Better still, it's YOU that'll be there to support her through the outfall. Do you tell her to forgive him, because he's really such a great guy? Do you tell her to turn a blind eye to it, because she's not an idiot & should have known it would happen?

How much do you actually look forward to that?
 
Jules said:
(is it ok to call her MY wife, btw?)
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Yes. She is your wife.




Jules said:
... He is afraid to tell her, because he is quite sure she will not be able to cope. He has got a lot to lose (relationship, kids, business, social network
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Pretty much every person who cheats on their spouse has a lot to lose and thinks that their spouse would not be able to "cope." Most people who cheat would claim that they are "poly" if you told them that poly means being able to love two people at once. Many people who cheat do love their spouse and their affair partner. That doesn't mean that they are "poly." Your wife came out as poly? No - she confessed to an affair. Poly, by definition, involves consent from all parties. She's just a woman, like millions of others, who loves her husband and is having an affair. I'm actually not actively against affairs and prefer to try and understand the motivations involved, since they are so common and seem to exist to address a common problem in our society, which is the requirement that we all appear monogamous, even though many people do not have monogamous feelings. It's important to call a spade a spade, though, and point out that this is not polyamory and your wife hasn't really "come out." She is in an affair relationship that you know about.

PinkPig's boundary up there looks mighty good to me.
 
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This isn't your ticking time bomb to defuse. I can see why you would want to but unfortunately, this is not under your control.

You do have some decisions to make on how to handle this for yourself.

1) You can tell the wife of your wife's boyfriend the real situation. Explode the bomb. I don't recommend this. It's not your relationship. There are occasionally real defensible reasons people cheat. You have no idea of the damage you could cause for you, your wife, her boyfriend, his wife, their and your children (if any), extended family, pets, work colleagues and friends. Yes, the ripples go far from this kind of thing, especially if the marriage ends ugly.

2) You could present your wife with basically an ultimatum. Either the boyfriend comes clean with his wife or her connection with him needs to end. I really don't recommend this. Ultimatums rarely work out well, for anyone involved. In my opinion, they tend to generate resentment no matter what decision is made. Also, as they are basically a veto of your wife's relationship with her boyfriend, vetoes also often don't go well for the same reason. The person receiving the ultimatum resents the person who gave it, even if they 'choose' that person. The person giving the veto may never really trust their partner again, not fully. After all, they put themselves in a situation where I (insert name) felt compelled to use a veto/ultimatum. This scenario does not generate trust or respect by either partner towards the other, even if the ultimatum 'works' as in the receiving partner complies with it.

3) You could present your wife with a boundary of your own. If she continues being in a relationship with someone who is not honest and open with his wife, you will have to end or downgrade your relationship with her.

Now, how is different from an ultimatum or veto? Practically, it's similar. Emotionally, it can feel very different. You are not telling her, 'the highway or my way, pick him or me.' What you would be doing is saying, 'if this situation continues, it's bad for me and I need to remove or distance myself from it.' You are letting her know of what you will need to do personally if the situation continues unchanged. Maybe most importantly, this is something you control. You control what you do. You are not seeking to control someone else's behavior but rather letting them know the consequences of their continued behavior. See the distinction? Most of the advice given so far falls into this category. You might get to this point. I hope not.

4) Have some very frank conversations with your wife about the relationship. Tell her all your fears, your feelings, your ethical problems, the potential fallout you see, how it may be impacting the relationship between the two of you, and the disappointment you feel about her being in such a relationship (if that is accurate). Tell her what you value in a marriage and how this situation is not reflecting your values. Tell her that you can see yourself, down the road, having to set a strong boundary around it. Do this not as a threat or a promise but information she needs to know about your state of mind. Then listen deeply to her thoughts, fears, ethical issues, feelings. Listening is critical here.

This is not a 'fix it' nor shaming discussion. It's not meant to change anything, at least right away.This will be a hard series of conversations to have. It may feel threatening to both of you, emotionally difficult and just draining. (I suggest checking out nonviolent communication for tips on how to do this in a less threatening way.)

What may happen is that the conversations will help your wife really assess the relationship with her boyfriend. She might decide to end the romantic relationship until he is open with his wife. She could also decide to keep going the way things are now. She could decide to downgrade the relationship to something less than romantic. Maybe she stays with him but encourages him to come clean with his wife.

The point of the conversations is to let her know exactly what's on your mind about that relationship, hear exactly what's going for her in that relationship, and how it's impacting her relationship with you. It's to let her know that she has the power to change the situation. (Sometimes people forget they have the power to act and they feel powerless to change something.) Hopefully she realizes that and takes your thoughts and fears into account.

But she may not. And this is true of any categories above. She's the one who decides what will happen with this relationship, at least for her part. What you can do is provide her with your thoughts and fears and let her go from there.

And you may get to a point where you have to set a boundary. She may be unwilling to change anything. But try having some long, deep conversations with her first.
 
Hi Jules,

Of the two options you mentioned, I would go with the first: Ask your wife and her other man to sort it out with his wife. And, if your wife refuses, you will have some tough decisions to make. It's highly unlikely that cheating can be continued forever. When that man's wife finds out he's been cheating, he's probably going to lose everything anyway. So what he's doing is not only immoral, it is also foolish. At the very least he needs to develop an exit strategy. A way to end the cheating.

Sorry you find yourself in this predicament.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hi Jules - welcome to the Forum! As you can see, we a have a lot of experienced poly folks here with some very strong opinions. The truth is that your situation is somewhat of a sore spot with most self-identified polyamorists - that being the scenario in which an individual who is self-identifying as polyamorous is involved with an individual who is simply having an affair (i.e., cheating). This often rubs poly folks the wrong way, since polyamory, by definition, exists with the "knowledge and consent of all involved". So, while your wife's side of things may exist with your knowledge and consent and in the spirit of poly, the relationship itself is not poly because her lover does not have his wife's knowledge and consent - thus she is enabling him in having a dishonest affair, hardly in line with the essence of polyamory. Consequently, most poly folks view this type situation unfavorably.

Shaya referenced my situation in his earlier post on this thread - and we do have some commonality. My wife also asked me to open our marriage back in December so that she could explore her resurgent feelings for an old college bf (full story in my signature link below). It was several weeks later, however, before I was able to offer my consent for them to have sex - but we did get there.

Additionally, my wife's bf and his wife are not fully poly either - although they are in a DADT ("don't ask - don't tell") "open" marriage - with a blanket "general" knowledge and consent understanding. Personally, I would not be able to do this but it does work for some - although poly folks are typically suspicious of this claim as it often used by the less scrupulous as a dishonest cover for having affairs with poly people. This thought did cross my mind - but her bf did offer her "evidence" that their DADT deal was real (which I won't detail here, but it seemed legit). Since then, he has indicated to his wife that he is "seeing someone occasionally" (which is accurate as his relationship with my wife is long distance and they typically only see each other once or twice a month). I would prefer full poly on both sides - but I can deal with their arrangement as long as he is not simply having an affair on his end.

I will not offer any real advice except to say that there is a real danger that her lover's life could be left in shambles by their affair (which it is on his side) - and perhaps if she really cares for him, she might want to back off until he has the chance to propose a polyamorous or other consensual non-monogamous situation to his wife. My wife did a really great job in asking me to open our marriage - I have detailed some of the key points of her approach as a comment under my intro thread (toward the end of the comments). I suppose this is in line with your first option - except that I would suggest your wife be willing to avoid physical intimacy and be discreet in her contact until her bf can work out a situation with his wife. If he can't or won't, and they go forward, just understand that it is an affair and it is likely that at some point, there will be a lot of hurt, pain, and damage.

Best of luck on this sometimes strange poly journey, Al
 
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I'll here show my bias. ;)

I was living with my wife & her lover (Dan). I became involved (all levels) with our friend Kath.

Actually, it went very well... until her other boyfirend, Kurt, started berating (well, whining would be better IMO but I'm trying to speak impartially :D) her for (OMG!!) having sex with a married man :eek:... generally when my legal wife was 40 feet away getting shagged by her OSO. :)

After less than a year of this, she cut off contact with me.

Here's the kicker: Kurt is the "monogamous" husband of Kath's best fried since like 1978.

I loved Kath, & actually kinda still do. But this seemed like a perfectly ironic place to end the relationship. :cool:

So I kinda have no reason to respect cheaters.
 
Thank you all for your kind words, (clearly voiced) opinions and advice. You people are really, really helping me. Thanks.

Yesterday, I have talked to my wife about keeping his wife in the dark being cruel and at the same time degrading the relationship between my wife and her bf to an opportunistic affair of which they can have little hope to develop it into something lasting, joyful and truly meaningful if they keep up the secrecy. I think she realizes I am right.

I see the struggle in her eyes. Which is painful but also a promising sign as her struggles always lead her to do the right thing. That is one of the many things that make her special.

Thank you all for helping me to find this path. I will let you know how it develops in a couple of weeks.

Jules
 
Jules said:
... they can have little hope to develop it into something lasting, joyful and truly meaningful if they keep up the secrecy.
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I actually disagree with this and would point to the many gay couples of millennia past who have proven that covert relationships indeed can be lasting, joyful and truly meaningful. History is filled with secret long term lovers and indeed, many poly people have meaningful love relationships that are invisible to the world. Secrecy in and of itself doesn't poison, doom or cheapen a relationship, but shame, guilt, resentment and anger certainly can if they fester - which is often the case in affairs.
 
FallenAngelina said:
Secrecy in and of itself doesn't poison, doom or cheapen a relationship, but shame, guilt, resentment and anger certainly can if they fester - which is often the case in affairs.
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Thank you for ponting that out. I should have been more careful in chosing my words, as my discussion with my wife was much more nuanced than my summary might suggest.
 
I didn't mean to pick your words apart, Jules, sorry. I mentioned it because we often assume that secret relationships cause problems and I think it's important for all of us, not just you, to recognize that secret relationships aren't inherently "wrong" or doomed. The poly world is full of secret relationships to varying degrees. They, and even cheating relationships, can be meaningful, intimate, joyful and long lasting. The problem with secret relationships is that they can engender feelings of resentment, guilt, shame and usually will never be recognized by the wider social world. This is a breeding ground for these feelings. That an affair is wrong, given the duplicity involved, is another matter, and one that I'm not debating. Rather, my point is that in and of itself, secrecy doesn't spell doom or imply false intimacy.
 
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I think it depends, Karen, on who you're keeping secrets from. Keeping secrets often involve outright lies or lies of omission. Keeping secrets from your partner can be hurtful and i hear you say you don't dispute the pain an affair can cause. But you could also be lying to your children when you choose that date to be secretly romantic with someone your children didn't know. If the excuse you give is work then your children learn that work can sometimes be more important than their ball game. But if they realise their parent lied to them in the future about the date, they can end up disillusioned about the meaning of love and trust, potentially teaching them unhealthy lessons about lies in their future lives. Friends may also see the secrecy and lies in a negative light, especially if you felt you had to lie to them about why you couldn't hang together.

History may romanticize the secrecy of intimacy in legendary love stories, but I suspect the necessity for secrecy contains both joyful and hurtful moments.

Now if you mean we hide our poly natures from judging eyes of others who would lecture or discriminate... well then, I'm with you on that one. Secrecy for sure. :)

In summary, I think it depends on whom you're being secretive with and whom you are keeping secrets from or lying to.
 
Jules you've mentioned what this other guy has to lose is it your plan and intention to " out " in terms of your open marriage status ?

I guess my question is what do you have to lose ? What's the blast radius for you and your family.
 
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