I Need Advice and Help

[JaneQSmythe]

... But in very painful discussions he has told me right now he does not know if he can ever love me like he did. Does not means he wants to divorce...

...Just wanted to make sure you know that when he says he doesn't feel he can ever love you the way he did... maybe he can. Affair recovery resources say it's possible, even probable...

During the dark times MrS told me that he didn't know if he could love me anymore and spoke of divorce...I actually believed more than him that he could (and did) love me. (Post #30 in my Journey blog is where I tell this part of our story). 7 years later and we are still going strong! We recovered (amazingly with Dude, my not-quite-affair partner and MrS's best friend, as a part of our chosen family!).

Happy endings are possible.

 

[sexyserb]

Magdlyn

First, before I say anything, I want you to know I have read you blog and I so happy that you seem to be recovering from your illness. I will pray that your health continues to improve.

I am glad you held on to your Hero and he accepted you back on a trial basis, despite you breaking some of the ground rules of your DADT.

Just want to clarify that Hero and I never separated. What he is trying to do is see if his feelings for me as the love of his life can return from what through his detaching emotionally has been. Fortunately for me, his physical attraction for me has not waned, even if just as a release, and our sex life is very active. maybe subconsciously he is "reclaiming" me, as i have read some men do. Whatever he needs I am here for.

Personally, I think an open marriage is a perfect solution to couples who are separated for weeks or months at a time. When people go from being together every day, to a LDR because of school, employment, military deployment, or other reasons, I would think going without physical touch and sex would be very hard. I am sure many/most people cheat. I think you made a more ethical choice!

I think most people on this forum would certainly agree with this statement, including me, we were separated during the week a lot but no as a deployment or like months or longer at a time. yes, I did the ethical thing, quite honestly even if it was for selfish reasons. There would have been no second chances if I had been caught cheating. That I would take to the bank
As I stated, the one thing I did right was not to get so emotionally involved with any particular man that I would be trying to fix my marriage while "grieving' for a lover. Hero would have the same reaction to that he would to cheating.

Like i said, I understand this is a polyamory forum, but i am in no way polyamorous. I was non monogamous , and used the umbrella of polyamory to justify in my mind what I was proposing to my husband. Problems or no problems, I still believe quite a few of the women on here who like a lightning bolt declare themselves polyamorous when they want to fuck someone other than their husband aren't being honest with themselves.

I may blog on here, if for no other reason than I have no where else to talk about this. My friends know nothing, and most of them would either disown me or try to fuck my husband if they knew.

I do understand that this is a problem solving board, and there are some folks here that can break down just about anything and make some sense of it.

Again, Magdlyn, thank you for your thoughts and stay well. please.

 

[sexyserb]

I feel the need to highlight a few gems of wisdom --
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
non-monogamy and mono/poly is not necessarily "hard as hell." Some people experience monogamous marriage to be hard as hell.

dating is hard for everyone... It's not the fault of poly.

Many [relationships] just ran their course. Others ended because people moved away. I've come to realise, many loving relationships, and marriages, like friendships, come with no guarantee to last forever. It doesn't mean they are failed relationships. You enjoy them while you have them, and you learn from them

Many of the happy poly people do not post about their boringly happy lives. They are just living, going about their business, going to work, raising kids and caring for other family, etc., as any mono couple might do.
__________________

Ravenscroft

I'm not saying the above is not true. I'm not buying that poly is not harder than mono. There are folks happy with both and folks struggling with both.
And i understand the comment about a problem solving board and those in utopia are not posting just like on an infidelity board those betrayed spouses that throw the cheater out and divorce immediately and move on do not post.

 

[sexyserb]

Jane

I read your post. I do feel the stress because I know how close I was or am to having the worst thing happen. I fear that Hero will ask more detailed questions and i am scared to death of what the reaction will be if he knows the extent o the things I have done. yes, he knows i was with other men, but most of it was DADT. And refusing to answer questions I do not believe is in my best interest. it has not happened yet.

Believe it or not, I am also stressed and insecure about his new work environment. Instead of constantly running through airports, checking in late at hotels and being constantly on the go, he know interacts all day long with many of the same people and some of them are very attractive successful women and believe it or not I feel jealous in some crazy way because men in his position have cuties chasing them constantly. its crazy because the last thing he would do is mess with someone at work. He's too smart but i still have this insecurity since I know I am off the pedastal right now.

 

[sexyserb]

Hi again!

It's great to hear an update from you. I'm glad things in your relationship are repairing. The hole in Hero's heart can be mended. Affair recovery says it can take 2-3 years to do so, but what you had wasn't quite an affair? So maybe less? Then again, he did allow you multiple lovers out of the love of his heart and it may be he sees that the rules you broke to be more cruel than an affair? I'm not him so I don't know. From the way you've described Hero, I feel there's a lot I could learn from him.

Just wanted to make sure you know that when he says he doesn't feel he can ever love you the way he did... maybe he can. Affair recovery resources say it's possible, even probable.

Best of luck, and looking forward to another update in a few months,
Shaya

Hi Shaya,

Thank you for your thoughts. There is no hole in my husbands heart. Just detachment. He is mad, not at me, but at himself, for not saying "No Way", a third time. He does not point the finger at anyone but himself. And he has no fear of being alone or without me, I asked him that and he just laughed and said "Mary Ann, do you really believe i would be alone for too long if I did not want to be???

The simple fact is, that I accept, is that I created the situation I am in now, and I am going to do the heavy lifting to repair it. I believe I can do that over time and I told him I am not giving him the easy way out. I am also a fighter.

I have learned that when one persons "happiness" take center stage regardless of the consequences, it will not end well. Thats why my heart sinks when I read these threads where one partner gets "pushed" into something that tears them up for the others "happiness". But each person has to make that decision.

I wish my husband had NOT done DADT . Big mistake because i took that as nothing but a green light with no stop signs anywhere. Had we been communicating about what I was doing I am sure I would have had a big time choice to make very soon after I started to "explore".

Shaya, your first experience ended poorly. I hope you find happiness but that you do not try to mold yourself into Mr. Poly Happiness just because your wife may want this again. You have written enough here and read enough ( hell you could write a book that would probably sell well). Follow your heart.

 

[Magdlyn]

Magdlyn

First, before I say anything, I want you to know I have read you blog and I so happy that you seem to be recovering from your illness. I will pray that your health continues to improve.

Thank you so much, I appreciate it!

I am glad you held on to your Hero and he accepted you back on a trial basis, despite you breaking some of the ground rules of your DADT.

Just want to clarify that Hero and I never separated. What he is trying to do is see if his feelings for me as the love of his life can return from what through his detaching emotionally has been. Fortunately for me, his physical attraction for me has not waned, even if just as a release, and our sex life is very active. maybe subconsciously he is "reclaiming" me, as i have read some men do. Whatever he needs I am here for.

Personally, I think an open marriage is a perfect solution to couples who are separated for weeks or months at a time. When people go from being together every day, to a LDR because of school, employment, military deployment, or other reasons, I would think going without physical touch and sex would be very hard. I am sure many/most people cheat. I think you made a more ethical choice!

I think most people on this forum would certainly agree with this statement, including me, we were separated during the week a lot but no as a deployment or like months or longer at a time. yes, I did the ethical thing, quite honestly even if it was for selfish reasons. There would have been no second chances if I had been caught cheating. That I would take to the bank
As I stated, the one thing I did right was not to get so emotionally involved with any particular man that I would be trying to fix my marriage while "grieving' for a lover. Hero would have the same reaction to that he would to cheating.

I hear your disclaimer that you are not, were not, polyamorous, because you didn't get very emotionally involved with other men. You somehow kept your heart out of it despite dating them and doing all kinds of sex stuff. I guess you can cling to that, at least, as the one thing you did "right," given the agreement with Hero.

Funny how different I am, seeing as I can't screw someone unless I am at the very least, fond of them, admiring of them as a person, some kind of simpatico feeling. But I am sapiosexual as well as poly.

Like i said, I understand this is a polyamory forum, but i am in no way polyamorous. I was non monogamous , and used the umbrella of polyamory to justify in my mind what I was proposing to my husband. Problems or no problems, I still believe quite a few of the women on here who like a lightning bolt declare themselves polyamorous when they want to fuck someone other than their husband aren't being honest with themselves.

Yes, and this is true of men too, of course. Men often lose interest in their wives when the wives fall pregnant, and all of a sudden they declare they are poly, when all they are is losers for not stepping up to the good father plate.

I may blog on here, if for no other reason than I have no where else to talk about this. My friends know nothing, and most of them would either disown me or try to fuck my husband if they knew.

It's sad you have no friends to talk to, and your "friends" who knew you experimented with open marriage would immediately try to fuck your husband to punish you for being a slut, or something. What kind of friends would do that? I mean, Hero agreed to the open marriage. I hope he wouldn't think that somehow gives him license to revenge fuck one of your "friends."

I do understand that this is a problem solving board, and there are some folks here that can break down just about anything and make some sense of it.

Again, Magdlyn, thank you for your thoughts and stay well. please.

Thanks again! I am doing much better healthwise, and I even have a new potential FWB/playpartner/bf person as of the past couple weeks. It feels pretty awesome to be back in the swing!

 

[sexyserb]

Magdyln

Congrats on your new potential boyfriend. Glad for you.
LOL. Don't get me wrong. I liked my lovers, most of them were much younger in their 30's, but yeah I did not do the "love" thing. Closest to that mistake would be my airline pilot and thank heavens that was a LDR basically with drop in booty calls.
I actually did some other stuff right. Never got seen in public by any of Hero's business associates or any of our friends or acquaintances. Never did it with anyone he or I knew or had any chance to be around socially ( and not because I did not have the opportunity), and never put my picture out all over the internet where someone could have forwarded it to him. So I am not a total fuck up.
I was being snarky about my friends. They all think my husband is gorgeous, and have kidded me constantly on how I better keep learning new tricks to keep him from wandering. Yes, I have a few friends who are divorced and if I told them Hero and I were in an open relationship that would volunteer to be part of the action. I do not have any friends involved in any form of open marriage or polyamory that I am aware of. Most are living the "fat cat" life like I am and no matter how miserable they might be probably would not put it all at risk because some of the husbands would certainly not be as kind in the event of divorce as my husband would be.
I grief to maintain my friendship with my "hot wife" pal just to have someone who understands this life but she just could not stop gushing to me about all her fun and its not what I need to be hearing right now. And we had nothing else in common except sex parties. She was under 30 and just a wild child with a husband who was an insatiable cuck.
I may start a blog just to let my thoughts out as I progress. I still am processing this new social circle Hero's new position has trust me into, and it is constant business.
I hope your new boyfriend progresses as you desire and keep getting the good check ups.

 

[anamikanon]

Just read this thread again and wanted to say that you, SexySerb have a very useful habit of straight talk, which allowed you to state your problem without unnecessary whitewashing or blame games and accept the feedback. I think it is a useful skill that puts the "sexy" in the SexySerb Much respect to your humility in asking for and USING help and courage in facing things head on.

Also your Hero sounds like my dream man if he's an OCD geek (sadly doesn't seem to have the sort of schedule for geekery ). Jokes apart, I like how you describe him. Looks and money can't hurt, but a man who can discuss emotions and difficult situations toward functional solutions instead of ultimatums and drama.... not many of THOSE floating around. The fairness you describe is also worth respect.

You said that he doesn't believe he could love you like before, but my life experience (and you seem to be older) says that both of you have excellent communication skills and mature thinking processes. I don't believe anyone can "go back" to anything, but you can move forward with choice. You aren't "monogamous" as you came "pre-programmed". You aren't poly anymore. You're ethically choosing monogamy as right for yourself and your relationship. This is the new you. The love for this you will be new too. From what you describe of the two of you, I see much to be hopeful about.

Wishing you the best.

 

[sexyserb]

Well, its been a few months, and this new marriage" thing ain't easy. Since the Holidays have been over, we have done a lot of talking, and I've done a lot of crying. So here we go>

The good news is that we are still married and that divorce talk is off the table, or at least not talked about as an option right now. Not that I ever headed there. Outwardly, we are Ken and Barbie, but I still do not get the "I Love You" with the passion and emotion i once did. I truly miss that.!

I am not a big proponent of therapy but I have gone to two of them. Pretty much the same analysis from both. RESENTMENT and MLC the culprits. Resentment??? Yup. Everything we have, and its a lot, comes from Hero, even though I actually have an MBA and he does not. He got all the "atta boys", from football star to corporate star, from the kids worship, while I was tagging along. My area of superior talent??? Attracting strange penis. Of course this is an oversimplification since I'm not writing a book here. HERO never contributed to this. He has always told me how much he appreciated and how great a mom i was and how our kids, all of whom will wind up as medical professionals, could never have done so great without me doing what I did. So this is all on me.

MLC, Christ. millions of women and men go through this and don't suddenly go do what I did. And keep at it for almost two years. That one is on me too.
Sometimes i think i am certifiably qualified for a straightjacket.

Both therapists tell me i am not out of the woods yet. That since Hero has not blamed me as much as himself for getting us to where we were, they say the anger may come out and he asks himself why on earth he stayed. One interesting thing is that he does get triggered when I cling to him at social functions or out having fun. He says that this not normal me makes me seem like i am artificially trying to change who I am. he says he survived fine over twenty five years of the flirty social butterfly and wants me to be myself. If I can't do that without falling to temptation, then what do we really have.??

Our sex life is off the charts. through all of this we have not been able to keep our hands off each other, yet this thing i have about loving sex with more than one man at the same time creeps through my head as a fantasy that I did and is gone. HERO gets really triggered not by me having had sex with others as much as that I was willing to put all we had on the line over it. Hell, he knew i was not exactly Ms. Prim and Proper when we started dating in college. But had his organization gotten any wind of this it would not have been good for his career or our kids future. I know that will rub some of you caught up in the way the world "ought to be" versus the reality of the way "it is" wrong, so sorry about that.

The amazing thing is right now if Hero told me tomorrow that he wanted a totally open marriage i would fall out of my chair.. The young honeys would be lining up for miles trying to snag him and take him from me. I can't imagine dealing with it so i guess I add selfish to my little analysis of things I have to work on.

I'll probably post greater detail on my blog, but I just wanted to again thank those who have made suggestions on her and PM on how to move forward.
The journey continues.

 

[kdt26417]

Thanks for that update on your situation, I'm glad you and your husband are still together. I was just wondering, does MLC stand for Mid-Life Crisis?

 

[sexyserb]

Thanks for that update on your situation, I'm glad you and your husband are still together. I was just wondering, does MLC stand for Mid-Life Crisis?

KDT,

Yup. Mid Life Crisis. Can I guess be used to cover a lot of territory for both men and women

 

[kdt26417]

That makes sense

 

[sexyserb]

Well, I guess things were going too smoothly so I had to go screw it up. There was a thread on Valentine's Day and celebrating it. I did not post on it but Hero and I always used to do something special. That is, until I coerced him ( yes I know he agreed but I know the difference and he does not blame me, I do).

So I asked him if he wanted to plan anything for this week, and he just EXPLODED. I cannot remember seeing him this mad in a long long time, and when a man his size starts screaming it gets your attention. No, he would never touch me so don't even go there. The gist of it and I'll paraphrase

HERO
"I know where I was last Valentines Day. In California by myself working my ass off to provide you with your 12,000 square foot house. " Where were you??

ME Stunned silence. Could not speak

HERO
"I'll tell you where you were. Probably in some hotel with at least one penis in you all day and night" He was absolutely correct.

ME Could not really respond.

HERO
"And now we're supposed to get each other mushy cards telling each other that we are the most special thing on earth and how we adore each other?"

And with that he stormed out of the house. I cried for hours. It again has hit me that what we had is destroyed, maybe to be rebuilt but never to be what we had.

My therapists, both of them, have warned me that something like this could happen. Especially with a guy who is not worried about having to date or find women again if he left me. They said he might beat himself up about why he stayed. Plus, like most men, he has gone through this all by himself, with no outside help.

Anyway, that triggering was the worst i have seen. He came back later and spoke to me normally and just told me to treat Wednesday as another day on the calendar.

 

[kdt26417]

It sounds like there's a lot of healing that hasn't yet happened. It will probably take a long time.

 

[Voluptuouschef]

I'm sorry

I'm sorry. That sucks. Speaking from experience, the guilt/self-blame your feeling from selfishly hurting him won't go away, for years if ever. It's only been a few months so yeah he's still very much under it especially with no one to talk to about it. Our pasts/situations are extremely different but the similarity of hurting a beloved husband over a length of time is there. Forget about Valentine's until he does it on his own just get him something thoughtful not sentimental. Same thing goes for birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas. Put forth maximum effort and expect no return. All you can do now is show him that you love and care for him and that you are faithful to him to build/gain back the trust and respect. Make him his favorite dinner on Wednesday. Even if you can't cook, try. For now and the foreseeable future don't even ask about "romantic" holidays/dates, it's really just for profit for the greeting card companies and candy makers anyways. Im planning to skip it this year, and every coming year if possible, because it has no meaning for us so what's the point? My husband doesn't care about it so why pester him for chocolates or flowers. If he got me either on a regular day of appreciate them more. Hope even a sentence here was helpful, I've been very informed from your story.

 

[FallenAngelina]

HERO
"And now we're supposed to get each other mushy cards telling each other that we are the most special thing on earth and how we adore each other?"

I'm not quite following. I had the impression that you had a open marriage and that he had agreed that you were each "allowed" to have sex with other people. I understand that it didn't turn out to be what you'd both bargained for, but I don't understand his current resentment and your guilt. You say that he doesn't blame you, but it sounds like he very much does. I'm just trying to understand what your guilt is all about, since you both agreed to the open marriage. All of this energy now in gaining his trust and respect - why are you heaping all of the blame on yourself for the condition of your relationship? I don't understand what you have to feel guilty about.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

I just wanted to say that I'm very sorry this happened.

 

[1234567]

Well, I guess things were going too smoothly so I had to go screw it up. There was a thread on Valentine's Day and celebrating it. I did not post on it but Hero and I always used to do something special. That is, until I coerced him ( yes I know he agreed but I know the difference and he does not blame me, I do).

So I asked him if he wanted to plan anything for this week, and he just EXPLODED. I cannot remember seeing him this mad in a long long time, and when a man his size starts screaming it gets your attention. No, he would never touch me so don't even go there. The gist of it and I'll paraphrase

HERO
"I know where I was last Valentines Day. In California by myself working my ass off to provide you with your 12,000 square foot house. " Where were you??

ME Stunned silence. Could not speak

HERO
"I'll tell you where you were. Probably in some hotel with at least one penis in you all day and night" He was absolutely correct.

ME Could not really respond.

HERO
"And now we're supposed to get each other mushy cards telling each other that we are the most special thing on earth and how we adore each other?"

And with that he stormed out of the house. I cried for hours. It again has hit me that what we had is destroyed, maybe to be rebuilt but never to be what we had.

My therapists, both of them, have warned me that something like this could happen. Especially with a guy who is not worried about having to date or find women again if he left me. They said he might beat himself up about why he stayed. Plus, like most men, he has gone through this all by himself, with no outside help.

Anyway, that triggering was the worst i have seen. He came back later and spoke to me normally and just told me to treat Wednesday as another day on the calendar.

He may not have touched you, but ask ANY victim of violence, and the verbal and emotional abuse was worse.

No sorry. No apology. Just a put- down. Denied your request for intimacy (Valentine's day exchanges).

In the best possible light, he has reached his breaking point with the open relationship.

I want to remind you that he agreed, and his agreement being harder than he though does NOT justify poor treatment.

He could own his acquiescence. You could own it was an experiment that didn't seem to work how you thought it would. You could, together, decide what to do from here on out. I saw your fear earlier about what would happen if he had someone else--- if you get the freedom to be open, he does too.

It's not going to work to shut it down because you are now dealing with the heebie jeebies that he did earlier. But it might work to mutually decide on either open or closed- and NO punishment for past choices. And listening to each other's pain surrounding it.

but, DO NOT LET HIM BULLY YOU because you opened your relationship with stated mutual consent.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I have read ALL of SexySerb's posts, and she has not ever shared previously an incident of Hero losing his temper. There are responses here that he had AGREED to an open relationship, therefore he is not entitled to feel butt-hurt. If I remember correctly, he didn't say, "Go for it, honey!" but was agreeing to it because Serb said she needed it. As GalaGirl would say, it wasn't a "joyful yes."

I don't think maligning Hero is the response Serb was looking for, nor do I think it's appropriate. He had an isolated outburst, likely something he had been bottling inside for a while. Maybe this is something that needed to be done; he can't stuff it down forever. Hopefully, more honest communication will come from this.

 

[FallenAngelina]

There are responses here that he had AGREED to an open relationship, therefore he is not entitled to feel butt-hurt.

Hero is certainly entitled to his feelings, especially since both of them agree that they would not do DADT open marriage in hindsight. He's not an abuser and obviously 1234567 has not followed the story. That's a tangent that I hope we don't get too caught up in because abuse is clearly not happening here. Still, my question to Sexyserb is why she heaps so much guilt upon herself. Sexyserb, you indeed did not get a joyful yes, but you did ask your husband's permission and you received it. I understand that he feels resentful now, but why do you in turn take up the Guilty mantel?

I wish my husband had NOT done DADT . Big mistake because i took that as nothing but a green light with no stop signs anywhere. Had we been communicating about what I was doing I am sure I would have had a big time choice to make very soon after I started to "explore".