Husband adjusting to my time not being dedicated to him

I had considered not explaining where the request was coming from, but I thought that to phrase it as my own request instead of my partner's would be dishonest.

Be sure to read what breathemusic said closely. They are not suggesting that you frame your communications as if you were the originator of the initial request. What I hear them suggesting is to take responsibility for your decision making and don't hoist that responsibility onto someone else... this is what is causing the conflict and what breathemusic is suggesting you get a handle on.

You hear the requests of both parties, you have had your discussions, you make your decision. It is this decision that is YOURS, and that decision should be presented as such. Unless I'm missing my mark, this was the nature of breathemusic suggestion... not being dishonest and pretending no other conversations happened.
 
I agree with Marcus. Not sure what your exact request was, but there's a difference between:
"My husband is insecure so let's stick to prescheduled time with you to put him at ease."(You're actually unhappy about it and blame your husband. => Ponytail's gonna blame your husband too.)
or
"After speaking to my husband I realized that unexpected visits were putting a strain on our relationship, so please understand that I'd like to stick to scheduled time only for now." (You spoke to your husband, evaluated the situation and made a decision about how you want to handle it. => Ponytail will have to negotiate with you if he has objections.)
There's more to it than just phrasing, it's a mindset.
 
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Be sure to read what breathemusic said closely. They are not suggesting that you frame your communications as if you were the originator of the initial request. What I hear them suggesting is to take responsibility for your decision making and don't hoist that responsibility onto someone else... this is what is causing the conflict and what breathemusic is suggesting you get a handle on.

You hear the requests of both parties, you have had your discussions, you make your decision. It is this decision that is YOURS, and that decision should be presented as such. Unless I'm missing my mark, this was the nature of breathemusic suggestion... not being dishonest and pretending no other conversations happened.

Ok. Man this is hard to navigate. I think what is hard for Ponytail is that even when I am phrasing something as beneficial for everyone, if he senses that something is being taken away from him -- and if he knows that Glasses was the one who requested a schedule change -- then he panics and acts as though we are making decisions without him.

My goal has been to bring up issues and try to brainstorm solutions WITH Ponytail, but it sounds like you all are saying I should come up with the solution and make the decision before bringing the issue to Ponytail at all? That's really difficult for me to do -- I am used to negotiation by compromise and consensus.
 
Be sure to read what breathemusic said closely. They are not suggesting that you frame your communications as if you were the originator of the initial request. What I hear them suggesting is to take responsibility for your decision making and don't hoist that responsibility onto someone else... this is what is causing the conflict and what breathemusic is suggesting you get a handle on.

You hear the requests of both parties, you have had your discussions, you make your decision. It is this decision that is YOURS, and that decision should be presented as such. Unless I'm missing my mark, this was the nature of breathemusic suggestion... not being dishonest and pretending no other conversations happened.

But , in a way, she IS the originator of the request . Ponytail asks for more time. She decides if she should give him more time. then she goes to Glasses and say she needs more time. Or am I looking at it too abstractly?

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think it's dishonest to keep conversations between my partners and I private. If one of my partners kept revealing info like that to me I would wonder what she was telling them about us.
 
Huh. This is very different from my style. I don't get much out of being in the same house with someone if we aren't actually spending time together. I would much rather that they go elsewhere or that I go elsewhere so that I don't feel like we are wasting our time together. I'd rather be getting something else taken care of so that when they are ready to spend time with me I will be able to I've them my attention.

Trust me when i ell you there will come a time when you would give anything (and I do mean anything) for just a few more moments of that time spent together just being together.

We are in conversation. Now I feel like I am not totally seeing things from Glasses' point of view, but I am willing to make compromises that help him feel like things are more equitable. But Ponytail is digging in his heels and worried that this is the beginning of a long list of line-item vetos. So basically we are at an impasse. And it's driving me bonkers because I feel like neither of them is being reasonable with each other at this point.


We do have totally different styles. If I had someone like Ponytail in my life I would be over that very quickly. But I think if you follow the advice given about keeping the conversations separate, some of that problem will be alleviated.
 
My goal has been to bring up issues and try to brainstorm solutions WITH Ponytail, but it sounds like you all are saying I should come up with the solution and make the decision before bringing the issue to Ponytail at all? That's really difficult for me to do -- I am used to negotiation by compromise and consensus.
Can you please clarify - what issue or request did you bring up with ponytail in this particular case?
I think we're still missing a subtlety here and it would be better to talk about the specific example. And from the description you gave about the conversation with your husband I have no idea what you talked about with ponytail and why you did it.
 
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Can you please clarify - what issue or request did you bring up with ponytail in this particular case?
I think we're still missing a subtlety here and it would be better to talk about the specific example. And from the description you gave about the conversation with your husband I have no idea what talked about with ponytail and why you did it.

Sure. Ponytail and I have been reserving Friday evenings as our date nights + sleepover, with additional time together as makes sense with schedules. Glasses now has another partner, let's call them Readhead. Redhead has two kids and like 5 different partners, so they can only see Glasses on Saturday evenings. This means that Glasses and I don't see each other much on the weekends, but because Glasses is sleeping over at Redhead's house anyway on Saturday nights, Ponytail usually comes over and we essentially see each other for most of the weekend.

Glasses brought up the fact that he wants to spend more time with me and asked that Ponytail and I move our standing date night to Saturday, so that it would align with his overnight with Redhead and allow Glasses and I to see each other on Fridays. Initially I was hesitant to change the schedule, in part because I felt like Glasses doesn't appreciate/utilize the time that we have together when I make time for him (which was the initial vent of my post) but I came around.

I raised this with Ponytail. Ponytail raised similar concerns to mine (like that we can't leave the house if Glasses isn't at home to be with the kids either....and Redhead's kids are even younger, so them doing an overnight at my house so that Ponytail and I can get out of the house isn't possible). I understand, and brought up several options -- we could go out earlier on Saturday, have an early dinner or lunch date and then come home and Glasses could go out...we could schedule more date nights during the week so that we could go out and have dinner together but still have dinner in and a sleepover on Saturday night when I am on "kid duty"....all of this seeems really reasonable to me. But Ponytail feels strongly that his rights in the relationship are being imposed upon by Glasses.

Basically, to Ponytail, the fact that the initial request is about working around Glasses' schedule is a sign that Glasses is going to arbitrarily make other limitations on our relationship.
 
Basically, to Ponytail, the fact that the initial request is about working around Glasses' schedule is a sign that Glasses is going to arbitrarily make other limitations on our relationship.

Well, Glasses asked if you were willing. You could say "No, not willing to change Friday." Then it ends there. Because there is no point in checking in with Ponytail because YOU don't want to.

If you ARE willing? You could say to Glasses "Let me think on it."

Because you being "willing" is not you being "willing AND able." You have to check your prior commitment to Ponytail. You could ask Ponytail "Could you be willing to change our date night to Saturdays instead of Fridays?"

  • And Ponytail could say "No, not willing to change Friday" when you ask him. So then you know you are "willing, but not actually able" and you tell Glasses "After consideration, no. I prefer Friday to stay as is. How else could we solve this? Could your other partner change to Friday?" You continue to work out a date night with Glasses.

  • Or Ponytail could say "Yes willing" so then you know you are "willing" to change your plans AND "able" to change your plans without you dinging Ponytail. You tell Glasses "After consideration, yes. I can swap to Saturday."

Each person is in charge of their own "willing" and their own "able." But you could firm it up in how you handle the conversations with your partners.

Right now it sounds like you overshare details with Glasses and Ponytail. They use that information to try to ding each other THROUGH you because they think the other one is hogging your time or something. Which is not pleasant for you.

And not accurate. YOU are in charge of your calendar and your time management.

You are in charge of your "willing and able."

You could honor your commitments in order made and not over schedule yourself or tack on new commitments before the previous ones are dealt with.

he said that it was hard for him to adjust to the fact that he can't just expect that I will be around during my free time and that we cannot have spontaneous alone time when the mood strikes and the kids are in bed.

Well, he's discovered something. And that is his adjustment that he needs to make.

If he got to a place where he was taking you and your time for granted? Being kind of lazy about it like assuming whenever he was in the mood to hang out with you that you would be available? Glasses could learn to appreciate time with you and learn to schedule it.

While I get it that he has gotten used to me being at his beck and call....

Some of that part is on you if before you were always available and did not say "No, I have plans to do X right now. I prefer we schedule our date time."

You did not have to be at his beck and call.

So for him to frame this as "we hardly get any time to carve out for each other anymore" is making me feel particularly bitter and annoyed.

You don't have to be bitter or annoyed. You could be matter-of-fact.

"That is correct. We don't "get" couple time. We have to actually "make" couple time by putting it in the calendar."

One of the ways we solve the childcare problem here is use time off work and have our dates during the time kids are in school. We have brunch dates, lunch dates, etc. Could something like that help with either partner?

Galagirl
 
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MSEmotional, thanks for the clarification. So there was a very specific scheduling request. In that case my comments might have been a little misleading. Galagirl has it described well.
 
Ok, so what do I do now?

I am at the point where I would prefer to change the schedule. But nothing that I offer to Ponytail makes him comfortable with giving up Fridays. I get it -- I made a standing date night and I should honor my commitments -- but I don't know how to handle the fact that Ponytail is simply refusing to negotiate with me. What about the next time something changes and we need to re-evaluate plans? This isn't a deal-breaker in terms of my actual schedule, but I feel like it is a deal-breaker in terms of the willingness of my partner to compromise when I ask something of them.

Should I just let this whole thing go, stick with the current schedule, and hope that the next time I am able to handle things less "sloppily" and ask for what I want in a way that doesn't pit them against each other?

Or is this a sign that Ponytail is feeling entitled to my time AND is unwilling to work on it? (Unlike my Glasses, who at least is aware of the issue and trying to get better.) Do I need to say, "My availability has changed. I am no longer available on Fridays" and let him decide to negotiate with me or find someone else to date on Fridays?

(By the way, Redhead isn't available on Fridays for reasons that are completely out of their control, so Glasses changing his date night is not an option if we want the ability to have weekend time together. Glasses tried to make that work before even bringing any of this to me.)
 
I am at the point where I would prefer to change the schedule. But nothing that I offer to Ponytail makes him comfortable with giving up Fridays. I get it -- I made a standing date night and I should honor my commitments -- but I don't know how to handle the fact that Ponytail is simply refusing to negotiate with me. What about the next time something changes and we need to re-evaluate plans? This isn't a deal-breaker in terms of my actual schedule, but I feel like it is a deal-breaker in terms of the willingness of my partner to compromise when I ask something of them.
IMHO? You got a NO to your request. From just this isolated even I would not conclude about his willingness to compromise or not, but you have to decide if there's a pattern to it.
Realize this is not the case where a change of plan is absolutely necessary, it's what you prefere, so the compromise argument goes both ways, and it's not very much useful to worry about "the next time" now. However, maybe his reasoning or communication style is unacceptable to you, and then that's the new problem to work on with him (or deem a dealbreaker). Or maybe you're sensing some imbalance or incompatibility and that's the problem to decide about - no longer the date night.

-- Could take his no to change Friday night and try to work out another solution with Glasses instead (provided he's still willing to do childcare duty on Friday). (Optionally) could make it clear to ponytail that this means you'll be less available on other weeknights, and let him handle his feelings on that.
-- Could let him know that Friday is no longer available, as you suggested - but since it does, in fact, work with your schedule, I'm not sure how that would fly. It seems to me like a false consequence, a punishment. I strongly suggest trying to solve the real issues instead. (*)
-- Could accept his no but make it clear (first to yourself, then to him) what it is about the situation doesn't work with you and try to address that.
-- Could decide his attitude is indeed a deal breaker and break up.

(*)edit: However, if you really are no longer willing to date Ponytail on Friday, you do have every right to not give him Friday. Just ... don't make it a tit for tat game, ok?
 
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I have read every one of your posts, Ms. Emotional. Ponytail IS draining you dry. I remember when you first started posting that he wanted to see you MORE, even though you were seeing him five times a week. You were quick to point out that these five times per week weren't really "dates," but times sometimes spent dealing with insecurity issues.

To be blunt, I think Ponytail does not benefit from a poly relationship. You are busy trying to assuage his fears, while Glasses is waving at you from a distance, "Hey, over here please?"

In an earlier post, you had stated that you were one of those "fixer" people who try to solve everyone's problems. Another word for this is "co-dependent." I'm not trying to attack you, but I have committed this behavior myself, with my adult son. It's really not a positive character trait that should be fostered. Nobody gets what they need, not even Ponytail who needs to learn to stand on his own two feet and deal with his sometimes negative emotions himself without you hovering about trying to fix them.

Sorry to be so blunt, but these same issues, painted with a different color, keep cropping up. I thought it needed to be pointed out to you.
 
Hmmm...I think they are being unreasonable with me BECAUSE I am, by definition, stuck in the middle. They aren't dealing with each other directly and so their unreasonableness with each other is all channeled through me. I am the messenger, and any time that I bring an idea to one of them, that person gets defensive because they feel like they are being ganged up upon. Ponytail sees couple privilege anytime I agree with Glasses and Glasses sees runaway NRE anytime I agree with Ponytail. Both of them try to see things from the others' perspective, but ultimately I think they are just really scared of each other and channeling that fear into being obstinate with me.

I wonder... There comes a time when if there is too much pitting against each other, the hinge has to say, "look, this is all my time. I get to spend it how I want. I will hear and take into account preferences, but the ultimate decision is mine"

Is it time for that yet?
 
I am at the point where I would prefer to change the schedule. But nothing that I offer to Ponytail makes him comfortable with giving up Fridays. I get it -- I made a standing date night and I should honor my commitments -- but I don't know how to handle the fact that Ponytail is simply refusing to negotiate with me. What about the next time something changes and we need to re-evaluate plans?

Yes, unexpected things happen in life. So plans need to be reevaluated and may change.

But isn't there ALSO a "built in" time to reevaluate plans? :confused:

Over here it is by school semester. It's a natural way of marking time because there's kids and they are in school. So agreements are fall term, spring term, summer term. And when the term is up, we renegotiate again for "our nights." Sometimes it is because activities change. Soccer or whatever. Sometimes it is just to mix it up so the same person isn't always getting Friday night.

DH has his nights for his things and his friends away from kids. I have my times for my friends and my things away from kids. We have time for each other.

The plus to this "built in" time is that everyone here gets used to it. They don't take time for granted, they know the schedule will change again next term so are more willing to come to compromise THIS term, learn to be more flexible, etc. When the unexpected happens? They are more resilient and able to bend.

Should I just let this whole thing go, stick with the current schedule, and hope that the next time I am able to handle things less "sloppily" and ask for what I want in a way that doesn't pit them against each other?

Could. How you deal with your time management is up to you.

Or is this a sign that Ponytail is feeling entitled to my time AND is unwilling to work on it? (Unlike my Glasses, who at least is aware of the issue and trying to get better.) Do I need to say, "My availability has changed. I am no longer available on Fridays" and let him decide to negotiate with me or find someone else to date on Fridays?

Could. Again, your time management belongs to you.

Another way to go could be middle path --

"Ponytail, it's Fridays for now, but when the school term is up, we need to renegotiate. It cannot be Fridays for life."

  • Ponytail gets Fridays for this term so he can be happy enough for now.

  • Glasses knows eventually he can get a Friday turn on another term. So he could be happy enough waiting.

  • You get knowing that a "built in" time for renegotiating is now in place. Every term you reevaluate time needs. So you could be happy enough that you aren't getting "locked in for life" and people taking you and your time for granted.

Because you control your time management. You may choose to give Ponytail some Fridays, but that doesn't mean you gave him all the Fridays of your life. YOU have to understand this. Not anyone else.

You could also choose to alternate Fridays.

Galagirl
 
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Ok, so what do I do now?

I am at the point where I would prefer to change the schedule. But nothing that I offer to Ponytail makes him comfortable with giving up Fridays. I get it -- I made a standing date night and I should honor my commitments -- but I don't know how to handle the fact that Ponytail is simply refusing to negotiate with me. What about the next time something changes and we need to re-evaluate plans? This isn't a deal-breaker in terms of my actual schedule, but I feel like it is a deal-breaker in terms of the willingness of my partner to compromise when I ask something of them.

Should I just let this whole thing go, stick with the current schedule, and hope that the next time I am able to handle things less "sloppily" and ask for what I want in a way that doesn't pit them against each other?

Or is this a sign that Ponytail is feeling entitled to my time AND is unwilling to work on it? (Unlike my Glasses, who at least is aware of the issue and trying to get better.) Do I need to say, "My availability has changed. I am no longer available on Fridays" and let him decide to negotiate with me or find someone else to date on Fridays?

(By the way, Redhead isn't available on Fridays for reasons that are completely out of their control, so Glasses changing his date night is not an option if we want the ability to have weekend time together. Glasses tried to make that work before even bringing any of this to me.)

OOOHHH boy.... I'ma try real hard not to get ranty but the way you describe Ponytail's behavior makes me feel ranty!

But let me first address some of the things you have done. So you described the situation where you told Ponytail that Glasses had requested a schedule change due to his date nights. I think that was way more info than Ponytail needed to hear. I mean, realistically, if you knew that you had 2 partners that were all gung-ho to try and accommodate each other and work together to maximize schedules, then sure, I probably would have phrased it like that too. But when you know that you have 2 partners at odds who feel competitive and get all butt hurt when 1 person requests a concession or compromise, then you basically just have to filter the convo. In this situation, my suggestion would have been that once Glasses asked about the switch, if it was something that you definitely wanted to do, then all you really need to do is let Ponytail know that the standing schedule isn't working for you anymore and that you need to change. That you can't do a Friday night date night any longer, or at least not every Friday (maybe you can do some Fridays as a compromise). Let him know that you'd prefer to move the standing date night to Saturday since Ponytail has already demonstrated that he's available since you are basically seeing him every Friday anyway. And if he can't do that, then ask him what other nights he could do, but still say that Friday is just no longer a good option.

Now back to your post that I quoted....

Nothing makes him comfortable with "giving up" Fridays?! UGH. As if he owns your Fridays and your time is his to control? First of all... fuck that. He can want to keep Friday's all he wants, but if you're no longer available, you're no longer available and he can either find a way to make that work or he can find himself a mono partner with no life and no friends and no kids that will just do whatever he wants because he's the boss.

I definitely think the answer is "yes" to your question about whether you just need to tell him that you're no longer available on Fridays. You mentioned that technically you ARE available so it feels like a lie.... but since you are wanting to spend that night with your husband, you actually aren't available. You're busy with your other partner because YOU want to be busy with your other partner (not because he asked, but because you said yes to his ask, because it's your time).

I think he is absolutely feeling entitled to your time and probably is only not willing to compromise because he knows it's a request from Glasses. I'll bet if you asked him "If I was asking to change the standing date night because I was trying to (insert other priority here that isn't Glasses related) would you still be so stubborn and unwilling to work with me on scheduling?" Because if the answer is yes, then he's always going to be a PITA with the schedule and you'll have to decide if you're willing to put up with that.


The other thing I want to comment on is your mention of feeling like you made and agreement to a standing Friday date night and now you should honor that commitment. BS. Don't beat yourself up over that. This is real life and in real life, people have schedule changes and sometimes you have to re-negotiate what works for you. Because again, your time is yours. I have a partner where we agree to a standing date night every 2 weeks, but we BOTH know that it's just the goal, it's not an obligation. It's to make planning easier so that we have a "default" and then any time there is a scheduling conflict we just touch base and say "hey, so our next date night, Wed doesn't work for me, is there another day that week that we can make work for us both?" And for that matter, our default date night changes from 1 semester to the other and for summer based on my partner's teaching schedule. So standing date nights can, in fact, change.


Personally, if I were in your shoes I'd be sitting down with Ponytail and saying: Look, this whole competition between my partners thing has to stop. I'm exhausted. The bottom line is that MY time is MINE to schedule. I want to work with you and find a schedule to see you that works for us both, because you are important to me and I want this to work, but I have a family that is also important to me, and a social life, and XXX. The fact that Glasses has made a schedule adjustment request is irrelevant because *I* have taken a look at my schedule and all of the things that I need and want to do, and have come to my own conclusion that I no longer am willing to commit to every single Friday night. This is MY preference. I'd love to sit down and have a scheduling conversation with you on this further, but you might need to take the time to also consider whether you can comfortably be in a relationship with someone who also has other partners and kids that they are going to want to take into account when scheduling, because that is always going to be the reality of a relationship with me. Similarly, I can tell you that any other partner I have would also have to accept that I'm going to want to carve out whatever time I want to be able to give to you as long as we're in a relationship and they are going to have to respect and accept that. For my part, I've learned that I need to do a better job of being the hinge and not letting the feelings of my partners spill over onto each other, so I'm sorry that I've done that and caused you and Glasses to feel stressed and like you have to compete with each other for my time. I'm working on that and will do a better job moving forward. But in the meantime, both of you are going to now have to accept that my time is mine to schedule. I will gladly take the requests and preferences of you BOTH into consideration, but ultimately I get the final say in my own schedule and availability, just as each of you are autonomous people and get to have the final say in your own availability. I hope that you can respect this moving forward.



I mean, maybe I'd soften it since right now I'm in ranty mode.... but you get the point.
 
I am at the point where I would prefer to change the schedule. But nothing that I offer to Ponytail makes him comfortable with giving up Fridays. I get it -- I made a standing date night and I should honor my commitments -- but I don't know how to handle the fact that Ponytail is simply refusing to negotiate with me.

It's your time. You've had the conversations that you need to have. You know what time you have available and how you want to distribute it... what is there to be negotiated?

I might be confused about what is happening. It sounds like you are allowing other people to dictate what you do with your time.
 
Personally, if I were in your shoes I'd be sitting down with Ponytail and saying: Look, this whole competition between my partners thing has to stop. I'm exhausted. The bottom line is that MY time is MINE to schedule. I want to work with you and find a schedule to see you that works for us both, because you are important to me and I want this to work, but I have a family that is also important to me, and a social life, and XXX.

Listen to breathemusic.
 
Listen to breathemusic.

Yes, this. Breathemusic said it beautifully.

Reiterating:

Your time is yours.

You get to be the one to decide what you want to do with it. Nobody else has a say, unless you want them to.

You are not bound to go on dates you don't want, just because you said once that you would.

You always have the right to change your mind about what you want. Always.
 
Okay! :)

So today I carved out some time to work on a spreadsheet of what I want. I shared it with both of them, along with an explanation of the fact that I am struggling with being stretched thin and that I would like to re-think our schedule. I said that if they had any concerns I would like to hear them, but that I wanted to use this as a starting place because it already takes into account some of the concerns that they have broughtto me individually, and that, above all it's what I want and feel I can commit to.

I thought it might be considered a little passive-aggressive of me to share a google doc with both of them instead of talking to each of them directly, but at the same time I wanted it to be clear that neither of them had been given an opportunity to negotiate before he other and that this is truly what I want, not what I am being pressured into by either of them.

Then I went to my therapist appointment and we talked about how to think of the boundary between "home time" and "Glasses time" -- meaning that if both I and Glasses realize that our time together is scheduled, then it doesn't matter to me if Glasses wants to spend that time sitting quietly at home or going out on a date -- as long as he recognizes that that IS time that he gets with me. I also decided that I am not going to text with Ponytail when I am spending time with Glasses -- even if that "Glasses time" is just sitting around the house.

Overall, I am feeling a lot better. I am really new at this -- I hadn't realized that explaining everything that was going on behind each decision was shifting the blame onto someone else.
 
Okay! :)

So today I carved out some time to work on a spreadsheet of what I want. I shared it with both of them, along with an explanation of the fact that I am struggling with being stretched thin and that I would like to re-think our schedule. I said that if they had any concerns I would like to hear them, but that I wanted to use this as a starting place because it already takes into account some of the concerns that they have broughtto me individually, and that, above all it's what I want and feel I can commit to.

I thought it might be considered a little passive-aggressive of me to share a google doc with both of them instead of talking to each of them directly, but at the same time I wanted it to be clear that neither of them had been given an opportunity to negotiate before he other and that this is truly what I want, not what I am being pressured into by either of them.

Then I went to my therapist appointment and we talked about how to think of the boundary between "home time" and "Glasses time" -- meaning that if both I and Glasses realize that our time together is scheduled, then it doesn't matter to me if Glasses wants to spend that time sitting quietly at home or going out on a date -- as long as he recognizes that that IS time that he gets with me. I also decided that I am not going to text with Ponytail when I am spending time with Glasses -- even if that "Glasses time" is just sitting around the house.

Overall, I am feeling a lot better. I am really new at this -- I hadn't realized that explaining everything that was going on behind each decision was shifting the blame onto someone else.
 
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