Help, wife is demanding that my secondary try to be her friend

[Dop8526]

TL, DR: Wife says my secondary has to talk to her and try to be her friend. There is no beef or anything between them, and she is very respectful of my wife and answers her whenever my wife messages her. How can I convince her that it's unfair to demand that she tries to be her friend. She's extremely jealous and can be controlling, she justifies her demands by saying she can't help how she feels, and if I don't agree with her I'm not respecting her feelings. She feels it's perfectly okay to take action based on irrational fears and emotions, when we all know that has the worst basis for taking action

We've been polyamorous for almost a year now. I can't seem to convince my wife that she can't require people to fit into a box. She thinks it's okay to demand that my secondary contact her and try to be her friend. She is really trying, but she's extremely jealous and it seems like she has become very controlling. I know she wants to try to make this work, but I'm not sure how to help her cope with those irrational fears and feelings. Plus to make matters worse, with every argument we have she lets it show in her messages to him, and he's constantly saying if we're not right he's going to not see her anymore. We love and care about each other a lot, yes we fight sometimes that's going to happen. She wears her emotions on her sleeve, I can become quite emotionally impulsive at times. I feel like I am a lot more respectful of her relationship than she is of mine. She knows that me and this other person are intimate, and she acts like she has no problem with it but when she is home and I am out I think that she can't stop thinking about it and that it does bother her but she doesn't want to give up her secondary. She seems to get upset when my phone goes off, and I keep my texting and communication with the secondary to a minimum while I'm spending time with my wife, she makes me feel bad about it and then I don't really chat much at the time, I never fails a little while later he starts texting and boy oh boy if I say anything I'm an asshole. I just need some advice and how to make her see how one-sided and selfish she is, she always says that she's secure knows I'm not going to leave her and I'm not, she's my forever, but I can't help but think that she is insecure and worried about me leaving her. I think it hasn't really helped that I've chatted and going on dates with some very attractive women they were younger and in good shape. She's a BBW, and she's always been on the bigger side, I don't mind that, I married her and the sex is really great, and I still enjoy each other's company and conversation. She can't seem to stop herself from trying to make my relationships fit into this perfect box that she thinks they should be. She ended up not liking a woman I dated over some really petty stuff, we had an unreal immediate soul connection, but after repeatedly having the wife restrict times to the point where the relationship didn't have time to be anything more than hanging out for a couple hours and having sex. So I ended up being the one who got hurt by that, because the woman I was seeing stopped texting me and talking to me like we had daily from the time we started talking and seeing each other. She gave me no explanation, until I confronted her about it I had sent a really heartfelt message telling her after all of the things she said about how much she cared about me and loved me like she's never known real love until me, I didn't understand why she thought it was OK to not respond to me. Basically her explanation ended up being that she didn't think that our text messages were just between us, guess I can't blame her after seeing how my wife is acting sometimes, but the simple fact is she could have called she could have said something instead of not responding for 2 days. So in the end that burn me because she blamed it on my wife and my wife blames it on her they were both to blame a small amount. After thinking about it enough, I realized it was mostly the secondaries unwillingness to do anything to make it easier.

 

[vinsanity0]

You just have to be firm when telling her no.

What is your boundary on this issue? Are you willing to let your wife control your relationships? If not then you need to decide what you are going to do if this behavior continues.

The bottom line is she CAN help how she feels, if she is willing to work on it. It sounds like she has a lot of work to do.

 

[Dop8526]

We've never said that these people had to be our friends. We always meet the people that each other see. I just feel like you can't expect a friendship from somebody just because they date your husband or wife. My secondary will talk to her if she is messaged or anything like that, and they have nothing bad between them. I feel like my wife is trying to assert control in any way she can. I'm very relaxed I allow her to make plans and come home when she is done. She never stays gone for days or anything like that. But for her I have to give her exact times, and she's very strict with them if I'm even 5 minutes late she says I don't respect her feelings or her and that I said I was going to be home I'm not doing what I said I was going to do so she can't trust me. I'm just feeling kind of hurt by the fact that she doesn't feel like she could trust me to come home at a reasonable time without requiring me to be home at a certain hour. She knows that me and her have sex, and I know they do too. If I text her when she's out with him and I don't hear back right away I'm okay with it as long as I hear back eventually. I was out with my secondary the other night and she sent me a text while we were in the middle of having sex. Waited 15 minutes and then called, quiet in the hotel room so my girlfriend hears her tone of voice. She doesn't understand that you're going to have these feelings sometimes but you need to rein them in, she doesn't realize the damage that can be done. My gf worries about this because she feels like my wife is not okay with this and that's the same exact thing that the last person I dated said. Sorry so long :/

 

[Emm]

"Make her be friends with me!" doesn't work in primary school, and it's not going to work with adults. Your wife needs to realise that she can't control other people; only herself.

It sounds like you need to set (and maintain) some boundaries with your wife. For example, let her know that you're not going to respond to messages or answer the phone while you're on a date. Then stick to it.

 

[Emm]

Ok, now I'm home from work and not trying to quote on my phone, here goes...

... but after repeatedly having the wife restrict times to the point where the relationship didn't have time to be anything more than hanging out for a couple hours and having sex.

Despite the fact that you knew how hard she'd fallen for you, you'd been treating her like a sex toy. It doesn't matter why you chose to only see her for sex, it was your decision to do so. As the hinge you're the one responsible for insulating one relationship from the other when one side is being unreasonable. You could have told your wife to back off, but you didn't. Your girlfriend responded as necessary to maintain her own boundaries.

So I ended up being the one who got hurt by that, because the woman I was seeing stopped texting me and talking to me like we had daily from the time we started talking and seeing each other. She gave me no explanation, until I confronted her about it I had sent a really heartfelt message telling her after all of the things she said about how much she cared about me and loved me like she's never known real love until me, I didn't understand why she thought it was OK to not respond to me.
Basically her explanation ended up being that she didn't think that our text messages were just between us, guess I can't blame her after seeing how my wife is acting sometimes, but the simple fact is she could have called she could have said something instead of not responding for 2 days.

So, to add insult to injury, she also couldn't trust that any heartfelt message she sent to her boyfriend would remain private. Under those circumstances, why would you expect her to even try?

So in the end that burn me because she blamed it on my wife and my wife blames it on her they were both to blame a small amount. After thinking about it enough, I realized it was mostly the secondaries unwillingness to do anything to make it easier.

It's not your girlfriend's job to smooth things out between you and your wife. She was in a relationship with you, not your wife. If you let things leak over from your marriage that's on you, not her. Did you take responsibility for choosing not to spend time with her, or did you say "I'd love to, but my wife won't let me" and stuff like that?

 

[Magdlyn]

We've never said that these people had to be our friends. We always meet the people that each other see. I just feel like you can't expect a friendship from somebody just because they date your husband or wife.

My secondary will talk to her if she is messaged or anything like that, and they have nothing bad between them. I feel like my wife is trying to assert control in any way she can.

I'm very relaxed. I allow her to make plans and come home when she is done. She never stays gone for days or anything like that. But for her I have to give her exact times, and she's very strict with them if I'm even 5 minutes late.

She says I don't respect her feelings, or her. That I said I was going to be home-- I'm not doing what I said I was going to do, so she can't trust me.

I'm just feeling kind of hurt by the fact that she doesn't feel like she could trust me to come home at a reasonable time, without requiring me to be home at a certain hour.

She knows that me and her have sex, and I know they do too. If I text her when she's out with him and I don't hear back right away, I'm okay with it as long as I hear back eventually.

I was out with my secondary the other night and she sent me a text while we were in the middle of having sex. Waited 15 minutes and then called. It was quiet in the hotel room so my girlfriend hears her tone of voice.

She doesn't understand that you're going to have these feelings sometimes but you need to rein them in, she doesn't realize the damage that can be done. My gf worries about this because she feels like my wife is not okay with this, and that's the same exact thing that the last person I dated said.

Hi Dop, welcome to the board. Would you please make paragraphs in your posts, as I did above. I know you need to vent, but the your first post was one big wall of text with no paragraph breaks, and few commas, and members will find it hard to read and skip over it.

To address your problem-- metamours do NOT need to meet each other, much less be friends. That might be your wife's preference, and she can request it. BUT, she isn't the boss of you, much less of your gf.

She can't "allow" you to this or that. She can consent to you having a relationship. You've consented to her having a relationship. Then, that other relationship only concerns two people, you, and your secondary, her, and her secondary.

As the hinge of this V, you are the one who is in control. Your wife is obviously fine with herself having an OSO, but not OK with you having an OSO. She is being too controlling. But you are the one who is allowing her jealous behavior to leak over into what is going on between you are your girlfriend.

If I was your gf I wouldn't answer your wife when she texts. Who wants to be friends with a person who is acting like a b***h?

It is perfectly reasonable to not answer a phone when you are on a date with another person. Emergencies excepted of course. No need to answer a text, no need to actually talk on the phone.

You need to sit down with your wife and tell her your boundaries around the phone issue, and also the issue with when you'll be home. It is ridiculous she gave you shit for being 5 minutes late. Hours late and no text? Yes, she might worry, and that is normal. 5 minutes late? Pfft. She is acting like she's your parent and you're 14 years old.

You could say something like, "Honey, I understand you feel uncomfortable with me having a relationship with another person. That is your baggage to deal with. When you act like that, I feel you don't trust me.

My OSO doesn't want to hang out and be friends with you, and that is her right. If you don't stop pressing her about that, she will not be answering your calls or texts. Metas don't need to be friends. Yes, I know you think it would help you feel better about me having an OSO, but it is not a workable solution."

"I understand you are jealous. Are you afraid I am going to leave you to be with my gf full time?"

It is a narcissistic behavior for your wife to be able to go out with her OSO, and stay as long as she wants, but then demand you toe the line and live by her rules, and demand your OSO also be her "friend" to help her feel more in control of her as well.

You do well by limiting your phone activity with your gf when you are spending couple time with your wife. But I am not surprised your gf thinks your wife is snooping on your phone to read your conversations with each other, since your wife is being so aggressive with her own calls and messages to your gf. Also if you spend a lot of time telling gf how your wife is acting, she's gonna be upset with your wife. You should make your time with your gf about HER, and your time with your wife about HER.

Is your wife very controlling of you in other areas as well?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

I think you are going to have to tell your wife "no" more often. And if she is struggling with emotional management, ask her to consider seeing a counselor or something.

Wife says my secondary has to talk to her and try to be her friend.

You could say "That is not up to me. You have to figure out how to make friends with X and respect it if they don't want to be best buddies and prefer to only be polite metas. "

But for her I have to give her exact times, and she's very strict with them if I'm even 5 minutes late she says I don't respect her feelings or her and that I said I was going to be home I'm not doing what I said I was going to do so she can't trust me.

You could say "No. I do not agree to be home by any particular time. I will be home at a reasonable hour. Certainly before X. But I do not agree to having a curfew that you set. I am not a kid. I think you can trust me, but if you think you cannot, there is nothing I can do about your thinking. All I can do is behave forthrightly. You decide if you can trust that or not."

I just need some advice and how to make her see how one-sided and selfish she is, she always says that she's secure knows I'm not going to leave her and I'm not, she's my forever, but I can't help but think that she is insecure and worried about me leaving her.

I think you could stop saying that. Because it is not true. If she became a serial killer, bank robber, or something, you probably would leave her. You also probably would leave her if she became a HUGE drain on your life. She's on that path now. Slowly sucking your dry with this behavior.

I think she takes it for granted that you are there "forever" and acts out. So there's no reason for her to work on herself if she can basically act out whenever and you keep on taking it.

I think you could say "I don't want us to break up. But I do not enjoy this treatment. I think you could seek help with emotional management and please stop blowing up at me. I love you a lot, but not even for you will I stay in something that hurts me. This is starting to hurt me. I would like these behaviors to stop _(list behaviors)_____. I would like these behaviors to start happening instead ____(list)___.

I also think you want a one-sided arrangement that is Open for you and not for me. I think you resent me dating but don't want to give up your partner. So instead of talking about it up front? I think you act out at me and try to be controlling so I give up dating other people because it's too much of a drag. So then you get the "Open for you but not for me" situation without actually having to talk about it. Is that what is going on here? "

You could become more willing to face things head on and really address it. Because if she's going to be mad either way? You may as well sort things out. Not walk on eggshells around her fearing her being mad.

Galagirl

 

[breathemusic]

If your partner is able to come home without providing an exact time, then you shouldn't have to either.... so just don't. Give her an estimate, but be explicit that it's an estimate and that you're not going to plan your date around being home at an exact time.

Tell her not to call unless it's an emergency, or that if she does text, you're not going to respond unless it's either an emergency or you happen to have a free moment to check your phone. And then maybe turn your phone to silent when you're going to have sex with your partner.

Respecting feelings doesn't mean doing whatever demands your partner wants. They're 2 different things. She needs to do her own emotional labor and manage her feelings. You are clearly doing as much as you can to respect her feelings without trying to sacrifice your own relationship, so there's not much else you can do except set some of your own boundaries and then stick to them. Your wife will either learn to accept it, or you guys really aren't cut out for an open relationship.

 

[Dop8526]

Ok, now I'm home from work and not trying to quote on my phone, here goes...
Despite the fact that you knew how hard she'd fallen for you, you'd been treating her like a sex toy. It doesn't matter why you chose to only see her for sex, it was your decision to do so. As the hinge you're the one responsible for insulating one relationship from the other when one side is being unreasonable. You could have told your wife to back off, but you didn't. Your girlfriend responded as necessary to maintain her own boundaries.

So, to add insult to injury, she also couldn't trust that any heartfelt message she sent to her boyfriend would remain private. Under those circumstances, why would you expect her to even try?


It's not your girlfriend's job to smooth things out between you and your wife. She was in a relationship with you, not your wife. If you let things leak over from your marriage that's on you, not her. Did you take responsibility for choosing not to spend time with her, or did you say "I'd love to, but my wife won't let me" and stuff like that?

These are all good and valid points. I don't disagree with any of them. There were things that could have been handled better by all parties involved, so I'm trying to learn from that and move forward more aware. Thanks.

 

[Dagferi]

I do not date poly men with nesting partners because of women like your wife.

I am an adult and choose my own friends thank you and no one gets to direct my relationships but me and my partner.

Op you are being a sloppy hinge and need to place boundries with your wife and stick to them.

 

[Dop8526]

I do not date poly men with nesting partners because of women like your wife.

I am an adult and choose my own friends thank you and no one gets to direct my relationships but me and my partner.

Op you are being a sloppy hinge and need to place boundries with your wife and stick to them.

I'm seeing some of the points made here. It's not quite as cut and dry maybe as that. Without going into too much detail it's hard to completely isolate one from the other, she was also married with children and we met with our families for a picnic a couple of times.

My wife called at 430 am while I was asleep in her bed, so me thinking there's an emergency or something wrong answer right away to her bitching and my gf hears it. Its hard to hide when somethings bothering you from somebody who's emotionally connected to you. That being said I do accept the blame for not being more firm in boudaries.

As much as I hate to say it, I don't think that my wife can handle being poly. I may have to give up on being poly if I am with her, because I know it also hurt my gf to do what she did and now that I'm not as hurt I understand why, whether or not I agree with how.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Dop8526,

It sounds like your wife is being one-sided and selfish. You need to communicate this to her, somehow, in a convincing way. Perhaps you could ask her how she'd like to be the secondary, she needs to put herself in the secondary's shoes. On the other hand, if you stop being poly, and give up your secondary, then your wife needs to stop being poly, and give up her secondary too. And before going that way, think about how that will make the secondaries feel. They haven't done anything wrong.

I hope you can get things worked out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Dop8526]

Hi Dop8526,

It sounds like your wife is being one-sided and selfish. You need to communicate this to her, somehow, in a convincing way. Perhaps you could ask her how she'd like to be the secondary, she needs to put herself in the secondary's shoes. On the other hand, if you stop being poly, and give up your secondary, then your wife needs to stop being poly, and give up her secondary too. And before going that way, think about how that will make the secondaries feel. They haven't done anything wrong.

I hope you can get things worked out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

I agree, people aren't throwaways, it's the last thing I want to do, I've never thought it was okay did you just say why we're closing it and you guys have to just go bye bye it's not fair and this is what makes it so hard to think about. On the other hand if its bound to hurt them in the long run anyways what more can i do but as much as i can to prevent more people from getting hurt, including myself.

I just have tried to explain and put in perspective so many times its like talking to a fucking brick wall. The response I always get is but I think this, and but I would feel better about it if this and blah blah blah blah blah.

I've tried to get her to reach out somebody online or in the poly Community there's people that were talk to her I think she really needs that help from somebody who can help her manage her emotions and make this kind of relationship work. It just seems to me like she doesn't feel like she's doing anything wrong like these things are all her right as my wife

 

[kdt26417]

Would she be willing to join this forum? Maybe we could help her manage her emotions.

 

[PinkPig]

I think Kevin's idea to have your wife join this forum is a good one. Even if she doesn't wish to participate, just reading posts and blogs may give her new tools and resources for working through her emotions, insecurities, and fears. It's certainly helped me....

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm seeing some of the points made here. It's not quite as cut and dried, maybe, as that. Without going into too much detail, it's hard to completely isolate one from the other.

[My gf] was also married with children. We met with our families for a picnic a couple of times.

My wife called at 4:30 am while I was asleep in [gf's] bed. So, thinking there's an emergency or something wrong, I answer right away [to her bitching], and my gf hears it. It's hard to hide when something's bothering you, from somebody who's emotionally connected to you.

So your wife called for no good reason, disturbing your sleep and your gf's sleep. Just bitching at you at 4AM because she's jealous and wants to disturb both of you. And you were upset, and then your gf was as well. Unacceptable!

If I had a bf like that, whose wife was so insecure she was calling in the middle of the night just to yell at my bf, plus all the other ridiculous information you've shared, I'd break up with him. I'd blame him and his weak boundaries and ineffective negotiations with his wife around practicing polyamory.

That being said I do accept the blame for not being more firm in [my] boundaries.

As much as I hate to say it, I don't think that my wife can handle being poly. I may have to give up on being poly if I am with her, because I know it also hurt my gf [when my wife did] what she did.

Now that I'm not as hurt, I understand why, whether or not I agree with how.

It sounds like you and wife could negotiate to both Close the relationship for a while, until you set down, maybe in writing, expectations and boundaries around what goes on when one or the other of you is on a date. Right now, she can do whatever she wants, she can date, come home whenever, call you at 4AM at your gf's to bitch at you, rage at you for coming home 5 minutes late. You're not being "easy-going." I'm sorry to be blunt but, you're being a pushover, and you are being a crap partner to your gf.

I agree, people aren't throwaways. It's the last thing I want to do. I've never thought it was okay [to] just say, "We're closing [the marriage] and you [metamours] have to just go bye-bye."

It's not fair, and this is what makes it so hard to think about. On the other hand if its bound to hurt them in the long run anyways what more can I do but as much as i can to prevent more people from getting hurt, including myself?

You have several choices:

Get your wife to agree to Close your relationship (both of you stop seeing your OSOs) until clearer rules are set up that apply to BOTH of you, or

Break up with wife if she refuses to agree to equal rules, or if she agrees but doesn't follow through, or

Go on as you are, being a pushover and hurting your gf and allowing your wife to hurt you

I just have tried to explain and put in perspective so many times. It's like talking to a fucking brick wall. The response I always get is, "But I think this, but I would feel better about it if this, and blah blah blah blah blah."

I've tried to get her to reach out somebody online, or in the poly community. There's people that [would] talk to her. I think she really needs that help from somebody who can help her manage her emotions, and make this kind of relationship work. It just seems to me like she doesn't feel like she's doing anything wrong; like these things are all her right as my wife.

Other laymen in the poly community, here or irl, can only do so much. If you've tried to discuss this with your wife, only to be steamrollered into going along with her rule, which seems to be, "My way or the highway," you could refuse to keep putting in the same old energy and expecting a different result. New measures need to be taken. She is being entirely self-centered. Poly doesn't work unless all people are on the same page. Communication doesn't work if both people don't feel heard. She's obviously extremely jealous, and that is based in fear of loss. All her annoying acting out reflects this.

And a marriage, even a mono one, isn't truly healthy if one person is the boss 100% of the time, and the other person is just their doormat, their yes-man. That's just the definition of dysfunctional. It's just not balanced. I can hear your frustration.

Ever done any couple's therapy? You could seek a therapist who is experienced in counseling poly couples, or at least other alternative issues.

 

[Dop8526]

I appreciate everyones replies. I have a lot of thinking to do, and a lot of talking to my wife. I feel I'm at a dead end, but maybe there's still hope. I told her that calling like that wasn't OK, I was pretty mad about that one. She said she was sorry, and she knows it wasn't right. Says she wants to change and for this to work. I just don't know if she really does because it seems good for awhile and then some other petty bs comes up.

 

[GalaGirl]

I told her that calling like that wasn't OK, I was pretty mad about that one. She said she was sorry, and she knows it wasn't right.

I think there is a point where you stop asking HER to do things. And you change how YOU behave.

For instance... could turn the phone off. Let it go to voice mail. If it is an actual emergency? What she needs to call is 911. Not you. Having you around to help would be nice, but what is NEEDED is 911.

If it is not an emergency? She going to be all cranky either way.

• It can be (cranky yelling at you at 4 AM where you get no sleep).
• Or it can be (you get some sleep and deal with the cranky when you go home.)

I would choose sleep. She might not LIKE it. But her having some feelings in the night isn't going to kill her. If having some feelings in the night is causing her THIS much distress? She doesn't need you. She needs a doctor. She could stop applying at your door for EVERYTHING and knock on the right door.

Says she wants to change and for this to work. I just don't know if she really does because it seems good for awhile and then some other petty bs comes up.

I don't know if anything here helps in your situation. I could be wrong, but you seem stuck in some circle conversation thing that goes nowhere.

I think if this is chronic behavior? She can show she is working on changing her behaviors by seeking OUTSIDE help. She could make and keep appointments with a counselor/doctor for the emotional outburst stuff. And do her patient management plan the professionals lay out for her to do.

If she's showing she's working it? Then maybe you agree to keep going.

If she's NOT working it and it is "all talk, no show" stories about how she wants things to be different but then doesn't really follow through on anything to bring actual change about?

You may have to accept that she just will not change. You may have to accept that you might love her. But not even for her should you stay in something that is hurting you.

You may have to separate in order to be free of all this upsetting behavior. You do not exist to be someone else's life raft or door mat. You cannot "carry" her forever. You end up burning yourself out... and she's still not any better. It's just... lather, rinse, repeat.

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one.

Galagirl

 

[breathemusic]

I think that what others are saying here in terms of how you respond is SPOT on.

If she's going to act out, don't listen to it. Don't answer the phone at a bad time, or if it's during an ok time and she's just going to bitch about things then say "ok, I'm not going to listen to this double standard, so I'm going to go ahead and hang up the phone now unless you had something unrelated and reasonable that you wanted to discuss." And then if the griping continues, hang up.

If it happens in person, walk away. Make your point the first time, but don't continue to argue what you know is a double standard.


I'm in the position of your g/f RIGHT NOW with a partner. After being together for over a year and a half, his wife has been spending the last 6 months, min struggling with poly. It was getting better, but not enough and my partner is exhausted. To the point where we might now have to take a break, which might even end up in a break-up. I'm feeling crushed, and will be devastated if we do actually have to take a break or break-up. But I don't expect him to just be miserable trying to maintain some balancing act between her and I (note that I've bent over freaking backwards to accommodate her feelings and it has helped very little. The issue is poly in general and not me, apparently).

So the reality is, she may or may not be able to work through her feelings and get to a point where she is on board with poly.... but what she's doing right now definitely isn't acceptable. And at the very least, you should be trying to hinge it in a way that it isn't impacting your g/f since the issue is between you and your wife, not your g/f.

 

[Dop8526]

The early am phone call was only answered because I have a seven year old daughter. If there was something wrong with her I would regret it for the rest of my life for not answering it. If it were just me and my wife I definitely would not have answered that call. I've learned a lot from all the ways she affected my last relationship. Im trying to do a much better job this time around of being a hinge. Lately I have been a lot more assertive about what I'm going to accept. I don't complain to my girlfriend about it keep everything as separate as possible