How to invite your wife into polyamory ?

Magdlyn, Thanks for going through the entire thread. So much text now. And your input is highly appreciated.

It's nice and so interesting to know how your daughter's life shifted after she found herself accepted and included, by the church and her partner. Seems like that was the kind of context she needed to feel included and not beneath everyone else. At the same time, I see that this change, alone, can't eliminate her propensity for drug addiction. I'll send you some links through PM with information about how to help her with that in a healthy way, in case you want to know more about what has worked for us.


It is true that I was searching for a calmer and more stable partner when I met Cam, because I needed, but wasn't planning on anything too serious. And I don't actually feel abused by my wife, because I have not been forced to make any of the choices I did. I chose what I thought was best for me, including the choice of making her pregnant. We both have been a victim of her disorder, but I don't feel like I am her victim.

While I do not fully "support" your behaviors here, many of which seem unethical, and feel horror at your wife's ideas about being an anti-feminist, I agree that both the person with BPD and their loved ones are "victims" of this horrific disease. My daughter is and always has been, on her good days, warm, generous, funny, artistic, intelligent, etc. It was always heartbreaking to see her "demons" take over and cause her so much pain. Her father and I are relieved that she has managed to heal... although we don't see her often because all the Jesus preaching is hard to take!

I just hope her new stability continues. I understand often the late teens and early 20s are the worst period for this disease. But my daughter was always "different." From birth. My opinion is she was oxygen and nutritionally deprived during my pregnancy. I had recurrent bronchitis during my middle trimester and this affected my pregnancy so much, my placenta had broken down and my daughter was born 3 weeks early. But from reading the book Stop Walking on Eggshells I understand BPD is more often triggered by a rough childhood.

Correct, it was her "kneejerk" response without giving it any thought. It is very hard to get a chance of being listened and share my feelings and in that specific dialog it wasn't lucky with that, which is understandable since I have only send an audio message. There have been rare moments however that she did listen to me and acknowledged my request for help. That's how she begun surprising me by inviting Cam to hang out with us.

Well, here we part ways. I still don't buy your idea that your desire for polyamory will help your ailing wife in any way. It just sounds very risky to me, and with much potential for backfiring in a spectacular way.
 
Understand your own pain before hers...

rosephase,

Thanks for sharing your experience, which is very relevant for me.

Your story confirms my prediction that any kind of V with two independent legs won't work when one of the partners has such disorder, and then things will tend to get worse, especially if strong emotional connections exist. It would probably work better with some sort of connection between those two "legs", not necessarily a threesome, but at least with everything going on within a close circle for friends. I understand however that in your case that was probably not an option and with the problems you described there was no way to make it work.

She would rather jump out of a moving car (this happened) then talk about how her actions (sleeping with a complicated ex) might affect me emotionally.
I understand how negotiating rules can be the hardest part. I see how it would be impossible for you, being so hurt, to bring up the topic while managing her emotions to avoid harsh reactions like that, especially if there wasn't anyone else to comfort you.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that poly can make things more complicated. Not less.

I agree, it's more complicated. Though, I believe that with the proper arrangement it can be easier to deal with the complications of such disorder. Due to greater individual emotional strength, mutual buffering and better group work. Yet just a theory.

A bit over a year after we finally broke up I'm still recovering. I still have fear reactions about disappointing my partners. I will be in a sudden panic when I need to cancel a date with a partner who has never been mad at me in our entire relationship. When you've been deep in it for years it can be hard to see that it can be different.
I see. It does really make us forget what does it mean to have an stable and balanced relationship, were you don't need to be perfect, things can be talked, and both can make compromise, and deals. That's were my interactions with Cam bring me back to real world.

This year of recovery I've been shocked over and over again to find how much damage and pain I was shoving down in order to keep going. In order to keep loving her and keep -trying- with her. I took everything she had to give. I thought I was the strong one. I thought I could love her the right way and she would see it and be kind to me.

I have gone through this, but as I matured I learned how to free myself form the my own fears. Fears of her harsh reactions and emotional withdraw. When I was "taking up things" to be there for her, I was actually trying to find a fix for us so that things would be smooth again, so I allowed it hoping to help myself too. Though now that I feel confident enough with myself and I don't fear her withdraw, instead of "taking up things" to be there for her, I withdraw first, until she is willing to listen me too, so we can have a productive interaction. And it doesn't matter for me how long she takes to drop her attitude. The longer she takes, the longer I'll be withdrawn. She can try a full week if she wishes and she knows I will be fine working all day long and she will get no attention. And she also knows that once she finds the balance we'll have a nice and civil conversation that won't hurt that much and will quickly break the ice between us. That gives her the bet motivation to change her attitude asap.

I feel for your situation. But I can only recommend getting out of it. The pain you have been is clear and if you are anything like me it runs deeper and is more involved then you suspect.

Sometimes I reflect about that, the pain that may run deeper than I suspect. I'll keep this in mind, thanks. Though, as stated in previous posts, I believe it is related to the absence of love which already existed on me before I met her, rather than the negative things added to my life by her disorder.
 
Last edited:
rosephase,


Your story confirms my prediction that any kind of V with two independent legs won't work when one of the partners has such disorder, and then things will tend to get worse, especially if strong emotional connections exist. It would probably work better with some sort of connection between those two "legs", not necessarily a threesome, but at least with everything going on within a close circle for friends. I understand however that in your case that was probably not an option and with the problems you described there was no way to make it work.

We were in a triad. My Ex, Myself and our partner. We lived together for six years. Were some form or partnered for nine. It was lovely at times. Both my partner and myself took care of our Ex. We had dinners and vacations with our Ex's other partners (all lovely people) we were a warm and supportive group. But that was with someone who wanted to be poly. Who was actively poly before I met her. And it was still really difficult and ultimately unhealthy for the two of us supporting her.

Like everyone else on this forum I'm telling you that this is probably a bad choice for you mental well being. Not to mention your wife. It's clear you don't want to hear that. So I'll leave it.
 
Two black rocks are not the same ...

rosephase,

Thanks for clarifying. I see your story is more interesting then I thought. Let me know best place to read more about it. From all you wrote, I got the conclusion that the triad did help in handling her disorder, something you have recognized, but that wasn't enough because her behavior has too "toxic". In other words, poly or not, you should not be in a relation with her anyway.

From what I've read, many people with compulsive disorders just say they are poly as an excuse to something else. What you have described from her behavior does not seem anything like polyamory. It seems more like promiscuity.

I like the definitions from Wikipedia, which precisely describe what I am seeking for:

  • Polyamory is the practice of or desire for intimate relationships with more than one partner, with the knowledge of all partners.
  • An intimate relationship is an interpersonal relationship that involves physical and/or emotional intimacy.
So I guess you had that, but not particularly from that disordered partner. People are different though. We can't stereotype someone just because of the terrible reputation of the disorder. My wife never broke ethical rules like that.

Before meeting me for the first time, she had just begun engaging in behaviors that were, for her religious standards, quite promiscuous. Though she always shared those experiences with me, because she felt guilty about it and wanted to know if I did accept her still. Eventually those confessions turned into a compulsion were she was confessing whatever thought she had. That made me stressed and confused. Whatever negative reaction I had would then make her feel extremely judged and angry to the point of physical aggression. Talking over and over to her I realized that she was reenacting childhood traumas. She had been unfairly judged and spanked by her mother in young ages, even before she had any sexual interest. Confused, she couldn't understand if she was a good or bad person.

However, my empathy for her, alone, did not remove my great discomfort in listening to her "thought confessions". That's when I begun to study poly relationships and the origin of human sexuality in hope to understand my own discomfort. I did understand and heal myself from it. Then, when I had a different reaction, her need to confess just dissolved. Today she does not show any discomfort at all about her sexual behavior or thoughts. She feels free to tell me some guy is handsome, the same way I do talk to her about a sexy girl when I see. And it's nice because we trust each other and allow such freedom.
 
Recovery allows maturity...

Magdlyn,

I didn't say she is an anti-feminist. What she explained is that feminist movement, as well as gender ideologies, have been explored by the media as a weapon to disrupt traditional families, ultimately aiming to strengthen the government, and thus there is in my country a lot of exacerbated feminist movement which is purely driven by media's "brain wash", but actually creates very unfair situations for men. The system assumes automatically that the men is an abuser and the woman is a victim without any proof verification, which creates a threat for innocent men. It is so disrupted that in practice woman can get angry for whatever reason and continuously slash out and spank man without any worry, because if he ever tries to defend then she calls on the system and he has to leave, then she follows up getting his property and custody of kids. I watched this happening over and over, including father and friends, etc.

My daughter is and always has been, on her good days, warm, generous, funny, artistic, intelligent, etc.

Yes qualities such as being enthusiastic and passionate are so interesting, that can even counterbalance the disorder. And recovery can be done. Sometimes it is as easy as quitting with the contraceptive pills.

It was always heartbreaking to see her "demons" take over and cause her so much pain. Her father and I are relieved that she has managed to heal... although we don't see her often because all the Jesus preaching is hard to take!

Yes, "demons take over". I understand that if done compulsively, the preaching can replace the compulsion for the other destructive behaviors she has quit. It feeds the same need in a healthier way. Though when I say recovery, I mean to make this need more balanced and moderated.

I just hope her new stability continues.

When the body is unbalanced, it targets on relapsing.

I understand often the late teens and early 20s are the worst period for this disease. But my daughter was always "different." From birth. My opinion is she was oxygen and nutritionally deprived during my pregnancy. I had recurrent bronchitis during my middle trimester and this affected my pregnancy so much, my placenta had broken down and my daughter was born 3 weeks early.

Shortening and deficiencies in oxygen, nutrition, blood flow and gestation period, all may cause other deficiencies, development, intelligence, etc. But you know this behavior is not just about deficiency. In mental health, balance is key and the excess is what causes greatest mischief. You can't fully repair a disrupted brain formation, but you can make it balanced. Then it works better and every right step will be ten times more effective. Your recurrent bronchitis indicate that your immune system was not working well, which is the result of an imbalance.

Btw, my wife has gone through severe health concerns during her gestation and first months, too. Was lucky to survive.

But from reading the book Stop Walking on Eggshells I understand BPD is more often triggered by a rough childhood.

I believe this is a false perception. The healthy kid won't respond to a rough childhood by developing such destructive behaviors as an adult. If resilient, recovers easily. Thus childhood trauma only exacerbates the problem that exists within the kid.

Well, here we part ways. I still don't buy your idea that your desire for polyamory will help your ailing wife in any way. It just sounds very risky to me, and with much potential for backfiring in a spectacular way.

No, polyamory won't make any disordered person recover, but my wife is already recovered. If compared against who she was years ago, it's a miracle. What polyamory can do is make people more mature, and this is now possible, but only within any small step that she allows and feels comfortable in doing, if any, if ever.
 
I didn't say she is an anti-feminist. What she explained is that feminist movement, as well as gender ideologies, have been explored by the media as a weapon to disrupt traditional families, ultimately aiming to strengthen the government, and thus there is in my country a lot of exacerbated feminist movement which is purely driven by media's "brain wash", but actually creates very unfair situations for men. The system assumes automatically that the men is an abuser and the woman is a victim without any proof verification, which creates a threat for innocent men. It is so disrupted that in practice woman can get angry for whatever reason and continuously slash out and spank man without any worry, because if he ever tries to defend then she calls on the system and he has to leave, then she follows up getting his property and custody of kids. I watched this happening over and over, including father and friends, etc.
I'm curious too. Russia?
 
What polyamory can do is make people more mature....

In my experience, successful poly relationships happen with new-to-poly people when they/we resonate with the premise, want to learn more, are eager to learn more and have the emotional wherewithal for ongoing healthy emotional intimacy. New-to-poly relationships require a huge generosity of spirit - not only the ability to respect and support another's perspective, but also the ability to dig deep within oneself and contend with some dark internal places at times. Poly doesn't make people mature so much as mature people are good candidates for successful poly situations.
 
I didn't say she is an anti-feminist. What she explained is that feminist movement, as well as gender ideologies, have been explored by the media as a weapon to disrupt traditional families, ultimately aiming to strengthen the government, and thus there is in my country a lot of exacerbated feminist movement which is purely driven by media's "brain wash", but actually creates very unfair situations for men.

Can you explain how feminism and "gender ideologies" disrupt traditional families? How do they increase the power of a government? Also how does a movement that seeks social equity for women create unfair situations for men?
 
Okej, but turning this into debating the opinion on feminism of any one person is likely a very bad idea ;)

LoveQuest, assuming best intentions, I understand your present challenge is that you would like your wife to form an informed opinion on polyamory, and understand her current rejection as a kneejerk black-and-white-thinking overreaction. You are willing to accept a no if you see that it has been thought through, but currently what you are getting is mostly a 'no, I won't even listen'.
Is this accurate?
 
Last edited:
Okej, but turning this into debating the opinion on feminism of any one person is likely a very bad idea ;)

LoveQuest, assuming best intentions, I understand your present challenge is that you would like your wife to form an informed opinion on polyamory, and understand her current rejection as a kneejerk black-and-white-thinking overreaction. You are willing to accept a no if you see that it has been thought through, but currently what you are getting is mostly a 'no, I won't even listen'.
Is this accurate?

I think Tinwen has summed up the heart of this convoluted thread: LoveQuest wants his wife to (firstly) become informed about various aspects of polyamory via discussion and research, and (secondly) try to understand the reasons HE feels he needs to explore a non monogamous relationship -specifically one that incorporates the three people concerned (himself, wife, Cam).

OP needs his wife to be open to the subject and hopes she will agree to continue socialising with himself and Cam together, in order that she might eventually be able to approach the idea of a polyamorous triad with an open mind, instead of shutting him down as soon as the subject is raised.

Fair enough. LoveQuest, your wife MAY warm to the idea, given time and more information on which to base her opinion. However, problems will surely arise if her answer remains a "no" (despite wife becoming more educated on the subject and/or after being given time to process your request), and you still refuse to accept her decision and instead persist in trying to convince/pressure/coerce her into changing her mind.

Perhaps having a young baby is one reason she is staunchly against the idea of bringing someone else into her family and home life (bad timing). Perhaps wife being super religious is a stumbling block (her morality is incompatible with yours).

Perhaps she knows her own limits better than you think she does and despite enjoying some slightly kinky sexual fantasies/thoughts on occasion, she knows with absolute certainty that she won't be able to handle seeing you being overtly sexual with another woman, especially not one you also love, in "her" house, with your child around.

Ask her, if you haven't. Talk. Communicate and keep communicating. If she simply won't talk further about the subject, you have your answer and you will either have to accept that your choices are either a monogamous relationship with your wife, or going your separate ways so that you may engage in poly relationships with Cam and/or other lovers.
 
But from reading the book Stop Walking on Eggshells I understand BPD is more often triggered by a rough childhood

I can warmly recommend this book to anyone dealing with BPD in any way. I only wish I had read it before I had started a relationship with someone suffering from it!
 
I'm in agreement with Lunabunny.
Perhaps having a young baby is one reason she is staunchly against the idea of bringing someone else into her family and home life (bad timing).
This is a likely reason that you maybe didn't think of, LoveQuest. Women are much more protective of their home if children are involved - I know firsthand that I'm comfortable with polyamory as long as I don't have kids.
Perhaps wife being super religious is a stumbling block (her morality is incompatible with yours).

Perhaps she knows her own limits better than you think she does and despite enjoying some slightly kinky sexual fantasies/thoughts on occasion, she knows with absolute certainty that she won't be able to handle seeing you being overtly sexual with another woman, especially not one you also love, in "her" house, with your child around.
This was certainly the case with my ex - and he wasn't even religious. But he had a firm idea of what he wants his relationship and his family to look like, and he wanted to follow that idea - simply, he held monogamy as an ideal very high. When we talked about polyamory he wanted to give me my freedom but he was hurt and ultimately it was too far from anything he had wanted for himself out of a partnership. He also wouldn't read up on poly - I once gave him an article that impressed me deeply and he said it's manipulative.
As far as I know, he's very happy now with his new gf. I'm sure he'll get exactly the type of family he always wanted. Some people are simply monogamous.

Ask her, if you haven't. Talk. Communicate and keep communicating.
Yes. And I'll add: don't push. Give her an idea, give her options what to study, let it sink in and let her choose if she wants to read up or not.
I still believe honesty is your best bet. You can be direct. You can ask "I wish to stay with you, but I believe polyamory would be a big enrichment of our lives. I don't want to push you, but I'd mean much for me if you could think about this idea. Would you be willing to talk about it later? Would you be willing to read up on it? Can you be honest with me about your thoughts and feelings on the subject?" You maybe get an immediate no, then maybe a week later you get a yes. That's how people change their mind. Or maybe you still get a no - then it's time to accept it :(.
 
Last edited:
This is a likely reason that you maybe didn't think of, LoveQuest. Women are much more protective of their home if children are involved - I know firsthand that I'm comfortable with polyamory as long as I don't have kids.

Good point, Tinwen. IMO, a mate introducing poly to a young mother, especially a new mother, is lunacy. Poly seems to work best in groups that are already established as a poly family before the children arrive or long after the children have matured to independence or that have a unit of parents securely "assigned" to each nest of offspring. Poly has felt natural and beautiful to me for most of my life, but when I was a new mother I would have hit the roof if my husband at the time had even attempted to get me to see it's virtues. Sorry, dude, that's just Nature's way.
 
Last edited:
Okej, but turning this into debating the opinion on feminism of any one person is likely a very bad idea ;)

FWIW, I have no intention of debating the OP's opinion on feminism, I'm just trying to figure out where he's coming from and I truly don't understand how feminism disrupts traditional families nor how it gives the government more power so I was hoping he could explain it.

My first spouse was BPD and one of my long term FWBs is as well so I've wanted to respond but as the thread has gone on, I've begun to wonder if having different internalized cultural constructs might be getting in the way of understanding where he's coming from. However some of his responses are also setting off some of my "possible narcissist" alarm bells so I'm trying to get some clarity here. An example of a response that rang these alarms was responding to GalaGirl's attempt to provide a cogent summary of his statements as "vilifying him." There's other things but I also admit I just may not understand where he is coming from so I'm trying to figure it out.
 
Refusnik: I see. We're on the same page. (Except I can imagine a dozen ways to misuse feminism. ;)) I also think that learning about the cultural context would alleviate some confusion. I mean, as long as we're talking about the US or (western) Europe, basically the same relationship patterns apply, but it may be a bit different to talk about the feasibility of polyamory to someone from China or Egypt. Assumptions break down.
 
Last edited:
People make assumptions...

Refusnik,

I have also questioned my wife if she thought feminist movement has always had such 2nd intentions. She explained that no, it originated as a beautiful movement in Europe to protect victimized woman. Decades later, modern media has shown that this movement can elicit a enormous attention and commotion from public. Since, some political parties begun using it as means to earn votes. Subversively, they send money to the main media channel which promotes lots of news reports on that topic, which indirectly promotes that political party. The illegal financial exchange is huge and the population gets brainwashed, which has a side-effect which is bringing a huge bias to the courts and police stations in favor of women and against men. Divorces were drastically promoted. Recognizing that, a non-profit social movement has successfully aided courts with skilled "social workers" that offer support, for free. They talk to the couple trying to promote friendly conciliation of interests, mostly in pro of the kids.

Lately, gender ideologies have been used for the exact same purpose. A law has forced public schools to teach young kids above 10 about homosexuality using the "gay kit" learning material, which was stimulating homosexuality among them. Years later, observing the drastic promotion of homosexuality among kids, our population has made pressure enough to make the project get cancelled. But the associated financial transactions and political power growth that happen behind the scenes are not reverted.

I don't think things have gone that far in US, but yet I'm impressed with how easy many posters here referred to "divorce" as an option. For most people here, divorce results in starvation of the kids. Both me and my wife have been short on food supply while we were kids, what could be avoided if our parents had succeeded in remaining as a unit. Psychological damage of a war between parents is also frightening. But my wife feels safe with me and would get offended if someone suggested a divorce for any "futile" reason such as going for a different arrangement (mono/poly). I understand though that in a rich country like US you make many times more money, unemployment is low and things are cheaper, so you can divorce by whatever reason you wish and then easily survive. It wouldn't be so easy if minimum wage was about 10 times lower.

PS: When I used the word "vilifying", I had just found it in the thesaurus. Probably "accused" was the best word, but that's just how I felt and I knew GalaGirl had good intentions.
 
Last edited:
Why in the world would a government utilize a "gay kit" to "stimulate homosexuality?" Maybe I lead a sheltered life, but I have never heard of such a thing.

I don't know WHY Love Quest won't document his country of origin, as certainly that kernel of information would not be enough to ID him. It sounds like this is a mix of cultural issues and his own rather skewed perception of things.
 
Back
Top