Spork
Active member
From a guy's perspective? I totally agree with opalescent. The guy is like a zombie. He just keeps on coming. Whem you push him back he just gives you an "aw shucks". It is very obvious he has an agenda.
I actually cringed when I read he approached you when you were in aftercare mode. Who the fuck does that, whether they know you or not?
Saying you can't make it is not the same as saying you aren't interested. At least not to a guy like him.
It is tough for me when I don't believe that people (like him) are acting out of malice, but rather programming and life experience. Maybe I am too forgiving. I mean, there were many times with my ex husband that I had a hard time judging situations and behavior, because it didn't seem to come from a malicious place, more like a self-centered, to the point of blindness to the feelings of others and no empathy, sort of place. Jersey guy, I have always wanted to cut some slack because he was new in the community, and our standards really are different, and some part of him will continue to do whatever has "worked" for him in the past.
And he is not, actually, the first man I've known who rocked a similar MO, now that I think about it. There was the sketchy little pirate guy who lived with Old Wolf and I during the time we were splitting up. Pirate was also physically small for a man, "cute" and non-threatening in his demeanor and appearance. One time we went to a music event, a sort of kink themed circus and concert deal, and Pirate got some booze in him. Another mutual friend was there, and she WAS part of the kink scene then, which neither I, nor Pirate, were at that point (I got in later; Pirate never did) and he hugged her in a "friendly" way but then nuzzled and nibbled her neck. She was outraged and referred to it as a consent violation and even "rapey" and I thought at the time, she was overreacting. I mean, clearly he was just being naughty and playful, and given the sort of event we were at...?
Yeah, it's amazing how your perspective changes when a.) You get into a community where the standards of behavior and consent are different, and b.) it happens to you. There is a feeling of discomfort when someone pushes a boundary as though they had a right, like that. While I don't throw around words like "rape" lightly and would not have used that word for that incident or any of mine, I would say that these are men (EDIT: and totally also women) who do not really understand what consent, ideally, should be about...or if they do, they don't respect it much. Or feel that it's unrealistic in practice, and that since nudging and pushing women is how they've always gotten what they wanted, and gotten away with it because they seem so harmless and adorable, that there's no reason they can't just do that. Positive reinforcement is a powerful thing. And in times of my life when I was single and available, I HAVE slept with men who nudged me into it like that. The standards of informed and explicit consent we try to promote in kink, just simply are not socially universal in America, by a very long shot.
And there are women in the community who are far more sensitive than I am, and who will far more readily raise an outcry, and a loud one, that gets a guy barred from the scene, for things like this. In trying to figure out where I stand, I'm thinking that if he is simply not understanding where he's setting foot wrong, and if he's basically a good man, and just letting his conditioning take precedent over what he has been told about standards of consent...he had better get straight with how this works, if he hopes to remain. Sooner or later, if he does not change his ways, the label of "predator" WILL get slapped on him, whether I do it or not, and it will stick.
So...if I am thinking he's knowingly crossed the line, I think he needs talked to, and if I am thinking he's making newbie mistakes, he needs talked to, and not nearly as gently as I did the first time around, either way. I'm fortifying myself to have a very, very honest discussion with him, where I spell it all out, maybe even in writing, and then if the behaviors do not immediately change, then I talk to the community leadership...but hopefully it doesn't go that far.
As for the aftercare incident, while it was over the line and those who have been in the scene know that, this time was a little unusual in that I was interacting with other friends. Usually when someone is in aftercare, they are snuggled down and sort of in a bubble. I was simply sitting, arms entwined with Zen, and there were only 2 or 3 spots where Jersey could have chosen to sit, and he picked right next to me, but all along his leg, thigh, and torso, was in contact with me, and only after he'd sat did he think to ask "Is it ok if I sit here?" That kind of situation, you definitely ask FIRST, it's not a forgiveness-over-permission scenario.
Hey. That's it right there. That might sum up his behavior more than any other thought I have had. He's had probably way more success (with women and sex) with asking forgiveness, than permission. That is the habit he's going to need to break, if he's going to stay in this community.
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