Sexual Incompatibility: Vanilla vs. Kink

C

CaptainCarrot

New member
My wife and I are going on two and a half years of open-ness, with the last eight months or so being full poly.
We opened up because she had always been curious about kink, and dove right in once the door was open.

Our sex life has never been phenomenal, especially since she suffers from PCOS and endometriosis, but it's just gradually tapered off these past three years or so, coming to a full stop this year.

But her sexuality with new partners, especially Doms, has flourished.

We've recently been seeing a therapist to try to resolve some of these issues, in addition to the codependency I developed under the radar along the way.
From our sessions with our therapist and discussions with friends in the kink community, we're wondering if kink has become or was always an integral part of my wife's sexual orientation.
Meaning, she cannot experience fulfilling sexuality without some kind of power dynamic.

When we first opened up, I (who had never really thought about any particular kink prior) tried to make our kink explorations something we did together.
But the deeper she got, and the more I felt like there was no place for me there, the more we realized that not only was it not something we could do together, it's something she explicitly cannot do with me.

Likely because we've never had any kind of power dynamic, me being the victim of toxic masculinity and thus a staunch opponent of anything manifesting in myself as a domineering attitude and an even more staunch proponent of egalitarianism in our marriage.
And I can't even fake it, because she knows going in that I don't enjoy it, and thus she doesn't enjoy it.

A particular example: She's a masochist, and has enjoyed various impact-play scenes. If someone else hits her, she laughs and wants more. If I hit her, she gets angry and demands we stop.

So here we are, two and a half years into poly-ness, and going on six months with no sex.
I think opening up has shown her what she needed for fulfilling sex all along, and it's also shown her that I can't provide it.

Which wouldn't be as big a deal, but she's gradually withdrawing from any kind of physical affection with me, which leaves me feeling neglected and unwanted (my primary Love Language is physical touch).

I feel trapped, in large part because every potential partner in our area in whom I've developed interest is ALSO in the kink community.
The overlap in groups fighting sexual repression works against me.

Our therapist (who had never worked with poly people before us) has advised us to wait it out, but it seems like my wife is going full "A Whole New World" with her Dom boyfriend, and I got left back in Agrabah.

It's even more frustrating, because aside from this, we're eminently compatible.
Like, at a soul-level.
But because I'm wired to place so much on physical touch, it feels like it's all unraveling.
 
I'm really sorry you're struggling, CaptainCarrots. This must be pretty tough.

I think I understand how you feel on some level. For reasons not too dissimilar to what you describe here, kink has not something I could not indulge in, and in some ways this took its toll, but eventually it was somewhat resolved.

Among several things that helped me get out of the painful situation I was in was reading Esther Perel's Mating in Captivity. There's a chapter in in aptly subtitled, "desire and egalitarianism don't play by the same rules". It touches on how role play, sub/dom, kink in general lets some people's sexuality flourish, and I understood how that for some people (myself included) there's an implicit fear that this inequality in the bedroom, so to speak, might spill out on other areas of the couple's life, which makes it impossible to really participate in such dynamics.

I don't think that it's something that can be immediately resolved yet I understand all too well the pressure of feeling unwanted and unloved. Would it help you at all to examine and explore your sexuality on your own? To think of your own fantasies, what shapes they take, what trends they set. Maybe even try those with your wife instead of pressuring yourself to meet her needs on her terms (and faking it in the process, which despite your best intentions, sadly never works).
 
CaptainCarrot said:
So here we are, two and a half years into poly-ness, and going on six months with no sex.
I think opening up has shown her what she needed for fulfilling sex all along, and it's also shown her that I can't provide it.

Which wouldn't be as big a deal, but she's gradually withdrawing from any kind of physical affection with me, which leaves me feeling neglected and unwanted (my primary Love Language is physical touch).


Our therapist (who had never worked with poly people before us) has advised us to wait it out, but it seems like my wife is going full "A Whole New World" with her Dom boyfriend, and I got left back in Agrabah.
.
Click to expand...


Are you saying 6 months without sex wouldn’t be a big deal if you got some sort of physical touch every now and then ??? Or are you saying her discovering what she need for fulfilling sex that you cant provide wouldnt be a big deal.

What’s your wife say is the reason for her withdrawal from sex and touch ???

Therapist suggests waiting it out.....waiting for what ? To me it looks like opening your marriage has killed your marriage. 2 1/2 yrs in and you’ve become a potted plant ...food and water and some conversation.


I think I asked in one of your other threads what’s your wife done to make this transition work I don’t remeber the answer ....has she read any books, or threads on this or other forums, listened to podcasts,etc etc.

How does she think this is going to work longterm ?? Does she care that her marriage is headed for the rocks ?? Has that been discussed ?
 
I agree with the therapist to wait it out some. She's experiencing a whole new thing right now. It's not really much different than vanilla people who get a new partner and focus on the new.

I know a few kinky people who only do kink but that is kind of rare in my world. Personally, I can do both. I had a vanilla wife for over two decades. It was hard at times, but was much better when we went poly.

Hopefully she comes down to reality soon. Or maybe that is her reality and the two of you will have to deal with it.
 
Kink is an innate part of my sexuality. At one point, around the time that we opened our marriage, Hubby tried to be my Dom. It didn't work; for him, it was "playacting," and he wasn't into it at all, which meant I got nothing out of it, which led to frustration and some resentment. If you've tried giving your wife what she needs, and you aren't able to because kink isn't your thing, that isn't either of your fault, but it might explain some of the issues you're having now.

However, that doesn't excuse your wife withdrawing from you physically, and, it sounds, in some ways emotionally. Is she aware of how valuable touch is for you? Does she really understand how much you need it?

I think when a marriage opens and people start exploring their sexualities, especially if they've been repressing or unaware of some things, there's a certain amount of "Woohoo, I'm free!" (The leader of the divorcing parents group I had to attend when my kids' father and I split actually referred to it as "woohoo syndrome," as it's something people often experience when leaving a longterm relationship as well.) It sounds like in part that might be what your wife is experiencing. And since you're new-ish to poly (I see that you've said how long this has been going on, but that isn't really a long time in the grand scheme of things), and came to it from a monogamous standpoint, she might be having some cognitive dissonance about being able to have her "woohoo" and still be in a physically intimate/affectionate relationship with you.

I'm sorry you're experiencing this. I think it's good that you and your wife are receiving therapy about the situation, and I hope things resolve positively.
 
CC: I'm not seeing huge amounts of polyamory here.

Would you say that she loves you? ("yes" or "no" being the only available answers) If so, how do you determine this? how do you verify this?

Do you love her as much as you did a year ago? five years ago?

How happy will you be if things continue exactly as now, getting neither worse nor better?
________________

Per my other thread -- on how conversation is so often left out of communication -- there seems to be blessed little of either in your situation.

You do sound as though you as an individual are a paycheck, a roommate, someone to take care of the chores.

Left unquestioned, that WILL get worse.
________________

There's a rule of thumb a therapist told me: "If it's not causing problems, it's probably not 'a disorder.'"

Conversely, little personal habits or quirks or preferences become problematic when they start to have negative consequences: risk to health/safety, loss of employment over nonattendance, excessive spending, etc. DSM-IV says paraphilias become disorders when "the urges, sexual fantasies, or behaviors cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty."

To the list I'd add "sacrificing other relationships, particularly in an 'accidentally on purpose' manner." IMO, if your wife ISN'T working up to a "whoopsie!" (passive-aggressive) breakup with you, then she NEEDS to explain herself clearly ASAFP.

I give no credence at all to the advice to "give her time" or "wait it out," starting with the total lack of ANY timeframe -- weeks? months? years? How are you to determine when the time passed is magically "enough"?

When your wife walks out on you, is your therapist going to at least give you a refund to partially pay for the divorce proceedings? :rolleyes:

At the moment, your wife is using "poly" as an excuse to wing-walk from one monogamous relationship to the next monogamous relationship.

If she doesn't wantthat to happen, she needs to face up to it.

If you don't want it to happen, you need to address it squarely, & immediately.

Otherwise, you really ought to retain an attorney.
 
Hi CaptainCarrot,

Have you asked your wife if she would be willing to share more nonsexual touch with you? and if you have, what was her answer? Would more nonsexual touch from her satisfy that part of the marriage for you? Would you be willing to seek out extramarital partners to meet your sexual needs? There can be such a thing as a platonic marriage, if you'd be okay with that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
It sounds like your wife is focusing all of her sexual energies on her new-found sexuality that is based in kink, if vanilla sex has never been particularly enjoyable for her physically due to PCOS and endometriosis, she may feel like a kid in a candy store.

As an aside: Has she ever talked to her doctor about treatment options? Some women won't bring up sexual issues with their doctor - both of these conditions can be mitigated to some degree. However, after years of associating sex with pain, some women have to "learn" how to enjoy sex even after treatment - especially if they never learned to enjoy sex in the first place!

My question to you is: IF you were getting your sexual needs met elsewhere, what types of physical affection would you still need from HER?

My husband is largely asexual. Although he appreciates female attractiveness, he generally doesn't feel the urge to physically act upon it. In our 26 years together, there were periods of time that this was a source of frustration and insecurity for me. This was highlighted when I was trying to get pregnant, but our prevalent cultural meme that all men are horny all the time didn't help - I had put on weight, I was getting older, was he just no longer attracted to me? I knew he loved me, that wasn't the issue.

Then it occurred to me: 1.) Grumpy, frustrated, insecure, needy people are not particularly attractive - so THAT was counter productive.. 2.) My desire for affection and attention could be met in other ways. So, we came up with alternative ways to address my desire for physical intimacy.

We set up our family room so that when we were just sitting around in the evening reading, watching TV, messing around on our computers, etc. we were within touching distance. We got into the routine of him "tucking me in" when I go to bed. Laying with me and cuddling as I fall asleep. I snuggle him goodbye before I leave for work, etc. He researched and bought me vibrators to please myself and encouraged me to explore. He is willing to give me oral sex (which he is particularly skilled at:p) even when he is not interested in having the favor returned.

************************************

Not all poly women are kinky - but you may have to do some exploring to find them - game stores? Ren Faire? Sci-Fi conventions? What other interests do you have?

Vanilla Jane"It's-not-kink-if-I-do-it"Q
 
dingedheart said:
Are you saying 6 months without sex wouldn’t be a big deal if you got some sort of physical touch every now and then ??? Or are you saying her discovering what she need for fulfilling sex that you cant provide wouldn't be a big deal.
Click to expand...

I'm saying I don't think six months without sex would hit as hard emotionally if we were still physically intimate in other ways.
I would probably interpret it as a temporary issue if that were the case.


What’s your wife say is the reason for her withdrawal from sex and touch ???
Click to expand...

She doesn't know why it's happening, which frustrates her (as a naturally analytical mind) as well.

Therapist suggests waiting it out.....waiting for what ? To me it looks like opening your marriage has killed your marriage. 2 1/2 yrs in and you’ve become a potted plant ...food and water and some conversation.
Click to expand...

My wife works in a high-stress environment in which she has to fake being an extrovert for long periods of time (she's a teacher).
All of these issues have been happening during the school year, so our therapist suggesting waiting for Summer Break (we set a check-date of July 4th) to see if her stress-conditions improve.

I think I asked in one of your other threads what’s your wife done to make this transition work I don’t remeber the answer ....has she read any books, or threads on this or other forums, listened to podcasts,etc etc.

How does she think this is going to work longterm ?? Does she care that her marriage is headed for the rocks ?? Has that been discussed ?
Click to expand...

She's joined/attended several online groups, one of which meets in person in our area to discuss issues/struggles, etc.
She has said that it feels like her body's betraying her, that she can't make desire happen and she feels like crap about it.
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi CaptainCarrot,

Have you asked your wife if she would be willing to share more nonsexual touch with you? and if you have, what was her answer? Would more nonsexual touch from her satisfy that part of the marriage for you? Would you be willing to seek out extramarital partners to meet your sexual needs? There can be such a thing as a platonic marriage, if you'd be okay with that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Click to expand...

We've talked about it, and she's making an effort to maintain some kind of contact whenever we're in public together or in the car.
It's helping, I think.

I doubt I'd be as fixated on the lack of sex if the nonsexual touch was more consistent.

I've been seeking other partners (other relationships, actually), but the last time I had an additional partner with whom the need for physical contact was being met, it just highlighted the fact that it wasn't being met in my marriage.

I had assumed going into poly that "My Emotional Needs" was a bank account into which all my relationships made deposits, but what I've found via experience is that each relationship is its own unique account, with a separate set of needs to be met.
 
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