I have been in a relationship with my partner about 8 months. I love her deeply and see my future with her. We met on the swinging scene (both fairly new to it, she more so). Was ment to be FWB but there was so much more there and we feel in love. We both love the scene, the freedom and enjoying multiple playmates/freinds. The trouble is as much as she likes to play and see others she can't stand sharing me. She feels guitly that she wants to have sex with other people but not for me to. She gets in a spiral of over thinking things and jealously. She's not selfish, she wants to be more like me and let me be free like I do her but just can't hack it. Its gutting because I love her to the moon and back but I have also found my self. Sexual mongomy is not for me (and ironicly is her too). I just don't think I can go back to sexual monogomy as I feel more myself that ever. But then on the other hand if I lover her as much as I do surely I should be willing to give it up for her but let her be free to enjoy others? So what does that say about me and my love for her that I don't want to change?
I don't think I can change or should?
- Thread starter Thecat69
- Start date
It doesn't say anything negative about you.
It's not as if you're suddenly asking her to consent to you exploring sex with others - you two MET through the swinging scene. She met and got to know you as a non-monogamous person. To some degree, her jealousy is understandable, as it's a normal human emotion, especially when in the midst of NRE with a new love.
It'd be one thing if you BOTH decided to go monogamous for each other. However, in your current situation, your girlfriend wants to remain open on HER end... just can't deal with you doing the same. That's an imbalance that will soon rankle IF you agree to it because she demands it... or emotionally pressures (coerces) you into it.
Nothing wrong with monogamy if it's a free choice, but it sounds like you're quite happy with your non-mono state. Your girlfriend needs to work out where her jealousy and insecurity is stemming from. Does she has issues of self esteem? Has she got a history of being cheated on or left? etc.
If you and girlfriend stay together, you only have a few options:
1.) She is going to have to do some emotional work on her side in order to accept that if SHE expects to be non-monogamous, and YOU also WANT to remain so... that's a fair and equitable position.
2.) You both decide to try monogamy. If you later decide to swing or open up again, that can be negotiated when the time comes.
3.) You consent to her remaining open, while you become monogamous. If you enjoy swinging, you might find you also enjoy the fact that your girlfriend has other sexual partners/experiences, in a voyeuristic kind of way. If this isn't something you'd enjoy at all, you do NOT have to consent to monogamy.
It's not as if you're suddenly asking her to consent to you exploring sex with others - you two MET through the swinging scene. She met and got to know you as a non-monogamous person. To some degree, her jealousy is understandable, as it's a normal human emotion, especially when in the midst of NRE with a new love.
It'd be one thing if you BOTH decided to go monogamous for each other. However, in your current situation, your girlfriend wants to remain open on HER end... just can't deal with you doing the same. That's an imbalance that will soon rankle IF you agree to it because she demands it... or emotionally pressures (coerces) you into it.
Nothing wrong with monogamy if it's a free choice, but it sounds like you're quite happy with your non-mono state. Your girlfriend needs to work out where her jealousy and insecurity is stemming from. Does she has issues of self esteem? Has she got a history of being cheated on or left? etc.
If you and girlfriend stay together, you only have a few options:
1.) She is going to have to do some emotional work on her side in order to accept that if SHE expects to be non-monogamous, and YOU also WANT to remain so... that's a fair and equitable position.
2.) You both decide to try monogamy. If you later decide to swing or open up again, that can be negotiated when the time comes.
3.) You consent to her remaining open, while you become monogamous. If you enjoy swinging, you might find you also enjoy the fact that your girlfriend has other sexual partners/experiences, in a voyeuristic kind of way. If this isn't something you'd enjoy at all, you do NOT have to consent to monogamy.
Loving someone does NOT mean giving up who you are in order to please them. Loving someone means giving them the freedom to be who *they* are. Sometimes that means accepting something about them that is uncomfortable for you; sometimes it means accepting that you and they aren't compatible and going your separate ways so you can both have what you need. You are accepting that your girlfriend is struggling with you having sex with other people. She is apparently not accepting that you are nonmonogamous and that's part of who you are as a person. So you not feeling that you can give up nonmonogamy for this partner doesn't say anything at all about *your* love for *her*. But if she's asking you to give it up, that says a lot--not necessarily good--about *her* love for *you*.
I can relate to how your girlfriend feels. I struggle with insecurity around my boyfriend's other partners, especially the ones he's started seeing since I got involved with him. (I don't deal with much if any insecurity around the two partners he was involved with *before* me.) I've set fairly strict boundaries about what I'll accept him telling me about his other partners, when or whether I'm okay with being in the same place as them, etc. Meanwhile, my boyfriend loves hearing whatever details I'm comfortable sharing about my interactions with other guys, would prefer a "kitchen table" model where he socializes with my other partners and I socialize with his, was happy to meet my husband and my most recent ex (when the ex and I first started seeing each other), etc.
I feel like a hypocrite because I tell my boyfriend things about my times with other partners that I would not accept him telling me about his times with his other partners, and I asked him to meet my most recent ex but have refused to meet the last two women he's gotten involved with. I've discussed this with my boyfriend repeatedly, and his take on it is that I am *not* being selfish or a hypocrite, we just have different tolerance levels when it comes to hearing about and interacting with our metamours (partner's other partners). He knows I'm working on the insecurity that fuels my limits; meanwhile he's been poly FAR longer than I have and so is perfectly fine with having, meeting, and hearing about his metamours because I don't think he's ever *not* been poly.
I can also relate to the overthinking bit, which is part of what I'm working on *not* doing. But it can be difficult to break the thought spiral, especially if it's fueled by strong emotion. That isn't to say it can't be done, just that it isn't always easy.
It is not up to anyone to change for anyone else. You can only change for *yourself*. If you choose to give up nonmonogamy, it needs to be because *you* want to give it up, because *you* feel it is the right thing for you to do. She would obviously benefit from it, but there's a difference between you making a choice because *you* are choosing to, vs. you making a choice because someone else wants you to, even though you don't feel like it's the right choice. If your only reason for this is "Well, I love her so I should change for her," even though you're going against your nature and what is right for you, there's a high probability you'll end up resenting her down the line for "taking away" what you really want and need.
It is possible to do the inner work and at least learn to accept and tolerate things like a partner seeing other people. I've been with my boyfriend for almost three years, and while I still, as I said, have difficulties at times, I've made a LOT of progress since he and I first got together. Otherwise, we wouldn't still be together. If your girlfriend feels that she's being unfair to you, she could try to do the work she needs to do in order to accept you having other partners. If she isn't willing to attempt that work, the two of you might be better off apart, at least for the time being.
I can relate to how your girlfriend feels. I struggle with insecurity around my boyfriend's other partners, especially the ones he's started seeing since I got involved with him. (I don't deal with much if any insecurity around the two partners he was involved with *before* me.) I've set fairly strict boundaries about what I'll accept him telling me about his other partners, when or whether I'm okay with being in the same place as them, etc. Meanwhile, my boyfriend loves hearing whatever details I'm comfortable sharing about my interactions with other guys, would prefer a "kitchen table" model where he socializes with my other partners and I socialize with his, was happy to meet my husband and my most recent ex (when the ex and I first started seeing each other), etc.
I feel like a hypocrite because I tell my boyfriend things about my times with other partners that I would not accept him telling me about his times with his other partners, and I asked him to meet my most recent ex but have refused to meet the last two women he's gotten involved with. I've discussed this with my boyfriend repeatedly, and his take on it is that I am *not* being selfish or a hypocrite, we just have different tolerance levels when it comes to hearing about and interacting with our metamours (partner's other partners). He knows I'm working on the insecurity that fuels my limits; meanwhile he's been poly FAR longer than I have and so is perfectly fine with having, meeting, and hearing about his metamours because I don't think he's ever *not* been poly.
I can also relate to the overthinking bit, which is part of what I'm working on *not* doing. But it can be difficult to break the thought spiral, especially if it's fueled by strong emotion. That isn't to say it can't be done, just that it isn't always easy.
It is not up to anyone to change for anyone else. You can only change for *yourself*. If you choose to give up nonmonogamy, it needs to be because *you* want to give it up, because *you* feel it is the right thing for you to do. She would obviously benefit from it, but there's a difference between you making a choice because *you* are choosing to, vs. you making a choice because someone else wants you to, even though you don't feel like it's the right choice. If your only reason for this is "Well, I love her so I should change for her," even though you're going against your nature and what is right for you, there's a high probability you'll end up resenting her down the line for "taking away" what you really want and need.
It is possible to do the inner work and at least learn to accept and tolerate things like a partner seeing other people. I've been with my boyfriend for almost three years, and while I still, as I said, have difficulties at times, I've made a LOT of progress since he and I first got together. Otherwise, we wouldn't still be together. If your girlfriend feels that she's being unfair to you, she could try to do the work she needs to do in order to accept you having other partners. If she isn't willing to attempt that work, the two of you might be better off apart, at least for the time being.
It just seems love is not enough. I used to think love conquers all but maybe not. There is no question we love each other. That's why my heart is breaking at the moment and so is hers. To make things worse we are both single parents and our kids have got attached.
She does have big self esteem problems. She has been cheated on in the past. She also has been through so much recently. She is in an emotional and phycological mess. And to be fair what she has been going through the last year she amazes me how strong she is, others would have just broke down. She tells me she doesn't know who she is at the moment. I suspect this is feeding this fire of insecurity. Also her and her mum have said that she has a habit of pushing people away when she is sad. Its an odd insecurity because she knows how much I love her and that I wouldn't leave her for another. She has told me this. Yet in her words it makes her sick to see/think of me sharing such an intermate thing with another and the way other women respond and enjoy them self with me. It hurts her and I don't want to hurt her. Every time I have been with another woman it has been when we are playing together, I have never been with another woman without her there. She has played alone with others which I am comfortable with. Party the problem is the way I am with another woman? I cant be cold and mechanical, I don't want robot sex. I am very caring, affectionate and sensual. I love sharing that moment and connection with others. And I love kissing. I am very caring, nurturing and value the connections I make with others. She understands me/this because she is the same herself. But she just cant stand the thought of me sharing a bit of my self with another. She is right I do share a bit of my self, that is partly why I like swinging, that belief connection with another.
Meeting on the swinging scene I thought everything would be ok entering a relationship because we were open to the idea in the first place. Like I said she does not want to stop swinging either. And a big part of our fun is swinging together. Likewise I have been cheated on in the past. My ex wife cheated on me in a most horrible way and broke my heart. But for me jealousy doesn't come that easy. For me you cant truly be free unless you set aside jealousy and let your partner be free.
I don't think monogamy is possible for me and thus not an option. I guess I have always been this way but its only in the last couple of years that I have found who I am and became completely comfortable in my own skin. I was married once in a monogamous relationship and was happy despite my non monogamous feelings. But after the break up of my marriage I got a chance to start again and found my self. Part of me feels I being unfair because I could offer my ex wife a loyal monogamous relationship but I cant offer my girlfriend that now.
The irony is she is talking about leaving me because she loves me. She hates making me feel bad for being myself. She hates that she hurts me and undermines my sense of security (which is very important to me) with all her doubt about us. She says she wants me to be with someone who truly lets me be free and doesn't hold me back. She says she don't deserve me. I hate it, she does deserve me, she is awesome and I love her so much.
I just feel so in limbo. I don't know what I can do? Because from where I see it our future together is completely out of my hands. It boils down if she can get her head round it. Like I say she loves swinging like I do but not the feelings afterwards. One of the big problems is I don't know is this is a way she'll always feel or if its just because she is in a very bad place emotionally and mentally at the moment? I hate that we both love each other so much yet we cant seem to fix this.
She does have big self esteem problems. She has been cheated on in the past. She also has been through so much recently. She is in an emotional and phycological mess. And to be fair what she has been going through the last year she amazes me how strong she is, others would have just broke down. She tells me she doesn't know who she is at the moment. I suspect this is feeding this fire of insecurity. Also her and her mum have said that she has a habit of pushing people away when she is sad. Its an odd insecurity because she knows how much I love her and that I wouldn't leave her for another. She has told me this. Yet in her words it makes her sick to see/think of me sharing such an intermate thing with another and the way other women respond and enjoy them self with me. It hurts her and I don't want to hurt her. Every time I have been with another woman it has been when we are playing together, I have never been with another woman without her there. She has played alone with others which I am comfortable with. Party the problem is the way I am with another woman? I cant be cold and mechanical, I don't want robot sex. I am very caring, affectionate and sensual. I love sharing that moment and connection with others. And I love kissing. I am very caring, nurturing and value the connections I make with others. She understands me/this because she is the same herself. But she just cant stand the thought of me sharing a bit of my self with another. She is right I do share a bit of my self, that is partly why I like swinging, that belief connection with another.
Meeting on the swinging scene I thought everything would be ok entering a relationship because we were open to the idea in the first place. Like I said she does not want to stop swinging either. And a big part of our fun is swinging together. Likewise I have been cheated on in the past. My ex wife cheated on me in a most horrible way and broke my heart. But for me jealousy doesn't come that easy. For me you cant truly be free unless you set aside jealousy and let your partner be free.
I don't think monogamy is possible for me and thus not an option. I guess I have always been this way but its only in the last couple of years that I have found who I am and became completely comfortable in my own skin. I was married once in a monogamous relationship and was happy despite my non monogamous feelings. But after the break up of my marriage I got a chance to start again and found my self. Part of me feels I being unfair because I could offer my ex wife a loyal monogamous relationship but I cant offer my girlfriend that now.
The irony is she is talking about leaving me because she loves me. She hates making me feel bad for being myself. She hates that she hurts me and undermines my sense of security (which is very important to me) with all her doubt about us. She says she wants me to be with someone who truly lets me be free and doesn't hold me back. She says she don't deserve me. I hate it, she does deserve me, she is awesome and I love her so much.
I just feel so in limbo. I don't know what I can do? Because from where I see it our future together is completely out of my hands. It boils down if she can get her head round it. Like I say she loves swinging like I do but not the feelings afterwards. One of the big problems is I don't know is this is a way she'll always feel or if its just because she is in a very bad place emotionally and mentally at the moment? I hate that we both love each other so much yet we cant seem to fix this.
8 months is still a fairly young relationship, it's possible that this will get easier for her with time... or harder.
I think if you can both agree that having freedom is the goal, that's good. You can start from where you are (whatever that is... maybe closed to sex, open to nudity? find out.) and go that direction - pushing her comfort zone just enough to be a challenge, but not so much she's a wreck, and not stressing about the time frame too much. If over the next half a year things have gotten somewhat better? Great. Maybe you'll get there in the next year. Life is long enough.
How does her "can't stand sharing" actually look like? What happens, she's feeling uncomfortable stuff in the moment? Or does she go into loops of worry even if there's nothing going on in the moment? Is it easier if you date separately, if she doesn't see you? Or harder? Etc.
You can work with that too, maybe swinging together is not the only model that can give you what you want.
I think if you can both agree that having freedom is the goal, that's good. You can start from where you are (whatever that is... maybe closed to sex, open to nudity? find out.) and go that direction - pushing her comfort zone just enough to be a challenge, but not so much she's a wreck, and not stressing about the time frame too much. If over the next half a year things have gotten somewhat better? Great. Maybe you'll get there in the next year. Life is long enough.
How does her "can't stand sharing" actually look like? What happens, she's feeling uncomfortable stuff in the moment? Or does she go into loops of worry even if there's nothing going on in the moment? Is it easier if you date separately, if she doesn't see you? Or harder? Etc.
You can work with that too, maybe swinging together is not the only model that can give you what you want.
River
Well-known member
I did not thoroughly read all of the replies to the opening post, but skimmed some. Nevertheless, I want to add my two cents even prior to reading the replies more thoroughly.
My feeling (and it is more about feeling than thinking here) is that when and where a fresh new "romantic" (so-called) relationship develops between two people who don't already have other "romantic" (love) partners, it may do the two some good to explore, deepen and secure that relationship without complicating things with sexual non-monogamy. What I'm saying is that a period of presumably temporary sexual exclusivity can be a good place from which to begin to open things up later, if that is mutually desired in the future.
This would be especially true in your case, since one of you is apparently very reluctant to have a mutual / equal open relationship at this point in time.
I seriously don't think it is ever healthy, when both parties want sexual non-monogamy, for one to capitulate to the other, resulting in an imbalance of liberties.
(Wait, that didn't make any kind of sense. Sorry. Seems one of you wants at least temporary non-monogamy -- if only one-sidedly. Okay. Got it.)
Why not take six months or a year to devote to an undistracted deep dive into being together exclusively? Set a firm date and a firm decision on what follows, and write it down if you feel it necessary.
Her desire for you not to be with others sexually at this early juncture in your relationship is, I think, perfectly valid -- but only if she, too, will take a break from getting it on with others for a spell.
To kowtow is to begin a relationship with a power imbalance which would almost certainly spoil everything.
My feeling (and it is more about feeling than thinking here) is that when and where a fresh new "romantic" (so-called) relationship develops between two people who don't already have other "romantic" (love) partners, it may do the two some good to explore, deepen and secure that relationship without complicating things with sexual non-monogamy. What I'm saying is that a period of presumably temporary sexual exclusivity can be a good place from which to begin to open things up later, if that is mutually desired in the future.
This would be especially true in your case, since one of you is apparently very reluctant to have a mutual / equal open relationship at this point in time.
I seriously don't think it is ever healthy, when both parties want sexual non-monogamy, for one to capitulate to the other, resulting in an imbalance of liberties.
(Wait, that didn't make any kind of sense. Sorry. Seems one of you wants at least temporary non-monogamy -- if only one-sidedly. Okay. Got it.)
Why not take six months or a year to devote to an undistracted deep dive into being together exclusively? Set a firm date and a firm decision on what follows, and write it down if you feel it necessary.
Her desire for you not to be with others sexually at this early juncture in your relationship is, I think, perfectly valid -- but only if she, too, will take a break from getting it on with others for a spell.
To kowtow is to begin a relationship with a power imbalance which would almost certainly spoil everything.
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MsEmotional
Member
Thecat69, I think I understand your girlfriend’s feelings. You (and she) are right that they are not *fair* but that doesn’t change her feelings.
My boyfriend is essentially monogamous to me. Somewhat by choice (he doesn’t have the energy or motivation to date anyone aside from me), somewhat by circumstance (dating is hard work for him and if it were easier he might be more inclined to seek partners) and somewhat because he knows that it is hard for me to deal with my feelings about him dating. Regardless, we go through similar periods — for awhile after he shows interest in someone I will feel totally depressed and upset at the thought of him going on a date with someone else, I will do some deep reflection and introspective work, then by the time I have gotten to the point where I feel I can be happy for him he will have already lost interest or decided that it isn’t worth it. Then for a long time there is no talk of him finding anyone else at all, then if it comes up again it causes me to feel very anxious and unhappy again.
I bring this up because I am wondering if you have actually *done* it? Like have you actually been with other partners since the two of you became so serious? Maybe it’s just the FEAR of you being with someone else that has her so upset? Sometimes I wish that my boyfriend would just DO it (fall in love, have sex, whatever) so that I could survive the experience and come through on the other side. I feel like maybe then I would be a stronger poly partner.
Like your girlfriend, *I* feel comfortable being non-monogamous. I *know* that each relationship brings something unique to the table and I am confident that having sex with one partner doesnt make me less interested or in love with another partner. With my boyfriend that is uncharted territory because he hasn’t really dated anyone since we have been together — so there is the nagging worry that he *wouldn’t* still be with me if he had other partners. It comes from insecurity — I trust him when he says that he loves me, but can I really believe that he will continue to love me even if he is with someone else?
I have a husband and a FWB who have other partners and I am not at all upset by them having other partners. In part, I think that is because my husband has already demonstrated that he still loves me even though he is in a relationship with someone else. And my FWB has already been seeing his other partners when I came along — I am not competing with someone newer and shinier than me.
This is a long-ass way of saying that if you haven’t actually been with others since you got serious with her, it may be that that’s what she needs you to do in order to become comfortable. It’s like exposure therapy. She might need to survive some discomfort in order to get to the fairness and acceptance that you both want for your relationship with each other.
My boyfriend is essentially monogamous to me. Somewhat by choice (he doesn’t have the energy or motivation to date anyone aside from me), somewhat by circumstance (dating is hard work for him and if it were easier he might be more inclined to seek partners) and somewhat because he knows that it is hard for me to deal with my feelings about him dating. Regardless, we go through similar periods — for awhile after he shows interest in someone I will feel totally depressed and upset at the thought of him going on a date with someone else, I will do some deep reflection and introspective work, then by the time I have gotten to the point where I feel I can be happy for him he will have already lost interest or decided that it isn’t worth it. Then for a long time there is no talk of him finding anyone else at all, then if it comes up again it causes me to feel very anxious and unhappy again.
I bring this up because I am wondering if you have actually *done* it? Like have you actually been with other partners since the two of you became so serious? Maybe it’s just the FEAR of you being with someone else that has her so upset? Sometimes I wish that my boyfriend would just DO it (fall in love, have sex, whatever) so that I could survive the experience and come through on the other side. I feel like maybe then I would be a stronger poly partner.
Like your girlfriend, *I* feel comfortable being non-monogamous. I *know* that each relationship brings something unique to the table and I am confident that having sex with one partner doesnt make me less interested or in love with another partner. With my boyfriend that is uncharted territory because he hasn’t really dated anyone since we have been together — so there is the nagging worry that he *wouldn’t* still be with me if he had other partners. It comes from insecurity — I trust him when he says that he loves me, but can I really believe that he will continue to love me even if he is with someone else?
I have a husband and a FWB who have other partners and I am not at all upset by them having other partners. In part, I think that is because my husband has already demonstrated that he still loves me even though he is in a relationship with someone else. And my FWB has already been seeing his other partners when I came along — I am not competing with someone newer and shinier than me.
This is a long-ass way of saying that if you haven’t actually been with others since you got serious with her, it may be that that’s what she needs you to do in order to become comfortable. It’s like exposure therapy. She might need to survive some discomfort in order to get to the fairness and acceptance that you both want for your relationship with each other.
Thecat, after reading your second post, I have a strong feeling that you two would benefit from taking your focus off of the issue.
Her healing is urgent (well, unless she's been this mess her whole life). You can't be solving issues if she's dealing with a bunch of stuff in her life that would break other people.
I reiterate, healing is urgent, non-monogamy, most likely, is not.
Frankly, it could be a cover up issue for any number of other insecurities and conflicts. I think you should temporarily close (both of you) just to get this extra layer out of the way and you can focus on healing and on improving your relationship dynamics.
The title of this thread suggests you can't change, but remember: You're not being asked to change who you are, deny the core of your being, you're only being asked to change behavior temporarily.
You are not responsible for each others feelings, or at least by far not as much as you think. You should let each other off the hook.
You should also learn about personal boundaries and put some in place. I know you're a caring person, but if you care way too much about someones depression and low self-esteem, you will become depressed yourself and your self-esteem will plummet. Then you can't help anyone. You can keep being caring, but you have to also maintain a sense of separate self, and do all the necessary self-care to keep yourself healthy.
Seek trust inside yourself. Trust her, that she can handle things eventually. Trust yourself that if that isn't the case and you eventually have to move on, you will be able to handle that.
Your future together may be uncertain, but your own future is not out of your hands. You can decide to put the relationship first and not add stress to it by being nonmonogamous now. You can decide to be nonmonogamous despite her wish and see what happens (this might hurt her, but you certainly do have that option). You can decide to not deal with her insecurities and break up now.
If non of that sounds fun, you can also decide to focus on being happy together in the moment and making all of this a side-issue. You can decide to focus on caring for yourself too. And trust me, making your relationship better will make dealing with issues easier. Likewise, making yourself a happier person to be with will make dealing with issues easier.
If she's a mess, make healing your priority. Get her therapy. Give her time to REST, reflect and find herself. Give yourself time and find support too.
Her healing is urgent (well, unless she's been this mess her whole life). You can't be solving issues if she's dealing with a bunch of stuff in her life that would break other people.
What do you mean by that? I understand lifelong monogamy is not an option, but what about a year of monogamy? Six months? Or are you not willing to close the relationship even for recovery time - perhaps because you have preexisting intimate connections?
I reiterate, healing is urgent, non-monogamy, most likely, is not.
Frankly, it could be a cover up issue for any number of other insecurities and conflicts. I think you should temporarily close (both of you) just to get this extra layer out of the way and you can focus on healing and on improving your relationship dynamics.
The title of this thread suggests you can't change, but remember: You're not being asked to change who you are, deny the core of your being, you're only being asked to change behavior temporarily.
Listen, this all sounds twisted. Realize she can't really make you feel a certain way. It's you reacting to her behavior. Likewise, you can't really ensure her happiness or solve her issues.
You are not responsible for each others feelings, or at least by far not as much as you think. You should let each other off the hook.
You should also learn about personal boundaries and put some in place. I know you're a caring person, but if you care way too much about someones depression and low self-esteem, you will become depressed yourself and your self-esteem will plummet. Then you can't help anyone. You can keep being caring, but you have to also maintain a sense of separate self, and do all the necessary self-care to keep yourself healthy.
Look how low you yourself are emotionally. You've made this non-monogamy thing dictate your outlook of the future.
Seek trust inside yourself. Trust her, that she can handle things eventually. Trust yourself that if that isn't the case and you eventually have to move on, you will be able to handle that.
Your future together may be uncertain, but your own future is not out of your hands. You can decide to put the relationship first and not add stress to it by being nonmonogamous now. You can decide to be nonmonogamous despite her wish and see what happens (this might hurt her, but you certainly do have that option). You can decide to not deal with her insecurities and break up now.
If non of that sounds fun, you can also decide to focus on being happy together in the moment and making all of this a side-issue. You can decide to focus on caring for yourself too. And trust me, making your relationship better will make dealing with issues easier. Likewise, making yourself a happier person to be with will make dealing with issues easier.
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MsEmotional
Member
I just re-read your second post too and I think it is possible that a big part of this might be the fact that she is always present when you have played with other people. Maybe she needs to not see it? Because, yeah, the fact that my lovers share intimacy and connection with their other partners IS something that makes me feel insecure and it is ONLY the fact that I have never watched them having sex that allows me to disengage from that discomfort. The idea of seeing anyone — my husband, boyfriend, or FWB — having sex with someone else is a huge turn-off and would feel super painful to me.
Maybe — because it seems that you two have been introduced to non-monogamy in the swinging scene — it would help her to take things more slowly and NOT see it? Like, maybe you go on a date with someone and she survives that without having to witness it....and then you go on a second date and kiss someone and she survives that..... and when you come home to her you tell her only had you had a nice time and then give her lots of affection and attention so that she knows you love her....and then when you are ready to have sex with the other person you tell her and reassure her that you love her and are so excited for the next time you get to see her....
I know not everyone feels the same way (both my boyfriend and my husband are comfortable seeing me have sex with the other) and maybe I am just projecting, but I can’t imagine how she could ever hope to cope with her insecurity if she is constantly expecting herself to watch it happen.
Maybe — because it seems that you two have been introduced to non-monogamy in the swinging scene — it would help her to take things more slowly and NOT see it? Like, maybe you go on a date with someone and she survives that without having to witness it....and then you go on a second date and kiss someone and she survives that..... and when you come home to her you tell her only had you had a nice time and then give her lots of affection and attention so that she knows you love her....and then when you are ready to have sex with the other person you tell her and reassure her that you love her and are so excited for the next time you get to see her....
I know not everyone feels the same way (both my boyfriend and my husband are comfortable seeing me have sex with the other) and maybe I am just projecting, but I can’t imagine how she could ever hope to cope with her insecurity if she is constantly expecting herself to watch it happen.
Apollogies that my posts come in late but as a new member they have to go through the moderator first.
Just an update on the situation with us. Things seem a lot more positive now. She came round last night. It felt like we built some bridges and once my kids went to bed we had some time to connect and talk things through. Then we ended up having the best and most connected feeling sex for ages. Especially for her the quality and connection of sex is a measuring stick for the health of the relationship (that I'm not too convinced is a healthy measuring stick to go by per se). Cleary that's far from problem solved but it was nice to see that emotional distance close and I what we have with each other is still there.
I have been really be thinking on what has been said.
As to her wider problems I'd love to get her more help and did suggest therapy or help. But we don't really have access to that. She has really been under a lot of stress and worry reasently with her teenage daughter's (with numerous issuses and truma) and other things. She also had a really hard life. Luckily a huge pressure that was affecting her life has now gone (providing they get a long jail sentence). This is both a relief but also has given her space to be broken. I want to get her help and she knows she's not right. I do recognise repairing her is key to us. Im a strong believer that to be happy in a relationship you must be happy in yourself first. I know key to this is her wellbeing mentally and emotionally. But as Tinwen pointed out I need to not let her problems damage my mental health. Easier said than done when you the type of person so attuned to people's emotions and pain. Sometimes her feeling do rub off on me and manifest them self in me to some extent badly. At times she can be horrible to me. That's partly why she talks about leaving me because she knows her pain is mine to a certain extent. But I must keep myself mentally fit for us and know when it's time to disengage to protect myself for us. Plus I am raising a young family alone so I need to stay healthy for the kids.
I am ok with going cold turkey on the swinging for her. Like I said I was ok when I was married. I would have never cheated on my ex wife, my morals and integraty are everything to me. The only thing problematic I see is if a year down the line say she didn't want me to go back to enjoying other women. But the is a bridge we can cross later. As to pre existing intimate relations I have non really. A couple of old close friends who date back before the relationship where there is a sexual element. But removing the sex with them is no problem (and been done before). Then nature of those relationships is pure friendship love. The sex was just an added plus as an expression of our closeness and totally ok without sex. Although ironicly she is totally ok about me having sex with these old freinds. She even told be she knows I love them but can see it's a different type of love and not a threat.
I have reset my self to the possition that everything is going to be ok. When I feel like that she is happier because that gives her a sense of security through the madness. But I feel that now but with an added factor. I feel everything will be ok even if at the end of it all we don't stay together. I have thought and rationalised an outcome where we are not. Hopefully we do go on to spend our life's together but I accept that love may not be enough alone and we may not be able to make things work in the long term. But either way it will be ok. I have that confidence and security in my self.
River I agree an inballence in liberties is not healthy. So does she. She wants me to be free so badly. She hates herself for feeling that way when I play with others.
As to how we see others then it may be worth trying different things. Like I said she does play alone (she has more free time than me and we live in different cities). We have only played together with other couples and an orgy for now in clubs because she is more comfortable with that than me alone she says Having said that the big problem is maybe a day or two afterwards (she really enjoys the whole thing at the time). She starts focusing of how much I look to be enjoying it and how much the other women were enjoying me. So maybe that actully seeing me with someone is not helping (despite her preference to play together)? Maybe I should play seperate. Although part of the fun in swinging with me is sharing those moments with her. Early on she did say shed wish I'd just get out, go on a date and fuck someone so she could just go on and deal with it. I think she also feels guilty because she can/does. I haven't yet because I only get a little free time so when I do I want to spend it with her. If I did have more free time I probably would see others (outside of our together swingers play). She will always be my number one. She has a lot more free time to see others when we are not together which I don't begrudge but encourage. Like me she has a high sex drive and I want her to enjoy her self and make great memories. It interests me that despite her preference for playing together playing alone could actually turn out to be easier?
Just an update on the situation with us. Things seem a lot more positive now. She came round last night. It felt like we built some bridges and once my kids went to bed we had some time to connect and talk things through. Then we ended up having the best and most connected feeling sex for ages. Especially for her the quality and connection of sex is a measuring stick for the health of the relationship (that I'm not too convinced is a healthy measuring stick to go by per se). Cleary that's far from problem solved but it was nice to see that emotional distance close and I what we have with each other is still there.
I have been really be thinking on what has been said.
As to her wider problems I'd love to get her more help and did suggest therapy or help. But we don't really have access to that. She has really been under a lot of stress and worry reasently with her teenage daughter's (with numerous issuses and truma) and other things. She also had a really hard life. Luckily a huge pressure that was affecting her life has now gone (providing they get a long jail sentence). This is both a relief but also has given her space to be broken. I want to get her help and she knows she's not right. I do recognise repairing her is key to us. Im a strong believer that to be happy in a relationship you must be happy in yourself first. I know key to this is her wellbeing mentally and emotionally. But as Tinwen pointed out I need to not let her problems damage my mental health. Easier said than done when you the type of person so attuned to people's emotions and pain. Sometimes her feeling do rub off on me and manifest them self in me to some extent badly. At times she can be horrible to me. That's partly why she talks about leaving me because she knows her pain is mine to a certain extent. But I must keep myself mentally fit for us and know when it's time to disengage to protect myself for us. Plus I am raising a young family alone so I need to stay healthy for the kids.
I am ok with going cold turkey on the swinging for her. Like I said I was ok when I was married. I would have never cheated on my ex wife, my morals and integraty are everything to me. The only thing problematic I see is if a year down the line say she didn't want me to go back to enjoying other women. But the is a bridge we can cross later. As to pre existing intimate relations I have non really. A couple of old close friends who date back before the relationship where there is a sexual element. But removing the sex with them is no problem (and been done before). Then nature of those relationships is pure friendship love. The sex was just an added plus as an expression of our closeness and totally ok without sex. Although ironicly she is totally ok about me having sex with these old freinds. She even told be she knows I love them but can see it's a different type of love and not a threat.
I have reset my self to the possition that everything is going to be ok. When I feel like that she is happier because that gives her a sense of security through the madness. But I feel that now but with an added factor. I feel everything will be ok even if at the end of it all we don't stay together. I have thought and rationalised an outcome where we are not. Hopefully we do go on to spend our life's together but I accept that love may not be enough alone and we may not be able to make things work in the long term. But either way it will be ok. I have that confidence and security in my self.
River I agree an inballence in liberties is not healthy. So does she. She wants me to be free so badly. She hates herself for feeling that way when I play with others.
As to how we see others then it may be worth trying different things. Like I said she does play alone (she has more free time than me and we live in different cities). We have only played together with other couples and an orgy for now in clubs because she is more comfortable with that than me alone she says Having said that the big problem is maybe a day or two afterwards (she really enjoys the whole thing at the time). She starts focusing of how much I look to be enjoying it and how much the other women were enjoying me. So maybe that actully seeing me with someone is not helping (despite her preference to play together)? Maybe I should play seperate. Although part of the fun in swinging with me is sharing those moments with her. Early on she did say shed wish I'd just get out, go on a date and fuck someone so she could just go on and deal with it. I think she also feels guilty because she can/does. I haven't yet because I only get a little free time so when I do I want to spend it with her. If I did have more free time I probably would see others (outside of our together swingers play). She will always be my number one. She has a lot more free time to see others when we are not together which I don't begrudge but encourage. Like me she has a high sex drive and I want her to enjoy her self and make great memories. It interests me that despite her preference for playing together playing alone could actually turn out to be easier?
^ THIS x 2
My partners are both monogamous to me, but that is their choice for the most part.
That said, the one time we did all "play together" in person, I was devastated to actually SEE it happening before my eyes. Albeit, I have never been involved in the swinging scene.
My reaction might be because my two partners used to be FWB together and still have a very close friendship, so my insecurity easily leads me to think they could really "fall" for each other. Or else it's a hangover from a previous bad relationship in which there was cheating and a group-sex-scene-gone-wrong.
(However, in your case, you say your girlfriend is totally okay with you having sex with your old friends, because she doesn't feel threatened by this.)
Whatever the case, I agree with MsEmotional that this angle may be one to think about in more depth. i.e. Would it be more helpful if you didn't share sex with others while your girlfriend is present?
That could be a way of controlling her insecurities (because if she's THERE, she knows exactly what's going on)... and/or it may be part of a sexual fantasy that feeds her libido and brings (temporary) vicarious sexual pleasure, watching you get off with others. (The object of swinging, I guess.)
However...
...if your girlfriend is an emotional mess at the moment (as you describe her), insecure, jealous and anxious... once the sexual "thrill" of the moment has subsided, she may start to perseverate on the "scene" from the day before.
She probably mentally pictures the look of pleasure she saw on your face, or the other person's face... "rewinding" the scene over and over ... until she begins to perceive everything that happened to be deeper and more "romantic" than it actually was. If she "reads" the scene as you connecting with other sex partners in a similar way to your connection with HER, then you having sex with others starts to feel like a threat.
This is not such a problem for you, because by your own admission you're not plagued by jealous feelings. You not only enjoy watching your girlfriend be sexual with others while you're present, but can tolerate her being with people while you're not.
This may be a case where being strictly "fair" isn't going to work. If YOU get something out of her being sexual with others... but SHE find the reverse painful... then only one of you is truly enjoying the "open" experience.
I do believe she allows her high sex drive/libido and the voyeuristic part of her to "take over" in the moment, while swinging. But later feels intense regret and jealousy. Doesn't mean she CAN'T, or won't eventually be able to work through these feelings...
But in the meantime, it might be wiser to either play alone, or temporarily trial being monogamous - with a plan to discuss/revisit the issue once she's done some emotional work and perhaps sought therapy/counselling for her personal issues.
Hi Thecat69,
It's possible for two people to very much love each other, yet be incompatible with each other. You may have that situation here. It all depends on whether your partner can wrap her mind around this open/poly thing, the part of it where you enjoy other women. I don't know whether she'll be able to do that, it depends on whether this is just a reaction based on past trauma, or whether she is hardwired to not share her partner. If the latter is the case, then the two of you may end up breaking up. But I hope that won't have to happen.
If this is her reaction based on past trauma, then it stands to reason that the key to overcoming the reaction is healing from the trauma. If she could see a therapist that would probably help. A therapist could help her do some digging and get to the bottom of things. But I don't know if therapy is something you can afford/do right now. If it's not, you'll have to find some other way for her to heal.
When talking with her about these issues, be sure to emphasize to her that you will love her no matter what. This may be where her insecurities lie.
Just some thoughts.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
It's possible for two people to very much love each other, yet be incompatible with each other. You may have that situation here. It all depends on whether your partner can wrap her mind around this open/poly thing, the part of it where you enjoy other women. I don't know whether she'll be able to do that, it depends on whether this is just a reaction based on past trauma, or whether she is hardwired to not share her partner. If the latter is the case, then the two of you may end up breaking up. But I hope that won't have to happen.
If this is her reaction based on past trauma, then it stands to reason that the key to overcoming the reaction is healing from the trauma. If she could see a therapist that would probably help. A therapist could help her do some digging and get to the bottom of things. But I don't know if therapy is something you can afford/do right now. If it's not, you'll have to find some other way for her to heal.
When talking with her about these issues, be sure to emphasize to her that you will love her no matter what. This may be where her insecurities lie.
Just some thoughts.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Thanks, what has been said is food for thought. We had a nice rare couple of days together again. We reconnected and things were good. I am now away on a holiday with the kids and she's on a date night and hotel stop over with a guy she made freinds with in a club.
My biggest worry at the moment is that we may be incomparable. Love is not an issuse we have loads of it. Communication is not either we have tottal honesty (one of the reasons I love being with her). But what it still boils down to that she really struggles with the idea of me being with others. The difference was sort of typified when I got a spout of jealousy today. She said she liked the idea of bringing a woman back to the hotel tonight with the guy she seeing tonight (practicly a fantasy more than a realistic option). I said I wouldn't like that. When ask why I said because we had never had a woman share a night with us and I'd want to share that with us first before another guy. She then said for her she'd be happy to do that with this guy but not me because she hasn't romantic feelings for him. So we have different stand points. So yes in a way for us to work there may be an argument that things need to be unequal. But that for me would not work because I have sacrificed so much in my life for others. I want to be able to be myself and to live life the way I want, life is too short. So maybe that sounds a bit selfish but I don't think I want to be held back.
As to the seperate thing there maybe something in that. We were talking and she said its ok for me to find some seperate play and she has never said otherwise to be fair. This is true but I have always held of arranging a private play date because I was worried this would be too much strain on her. I have a couple of women who I have got to know a bit and would love to play with. The only thing holding me back is worries about my girlfriends reaction and lack of free time. Maybe based on our conversation and her reaffirming its ok to play alone I should just go for it?
As to club play we are still planning to go to the events we had planned. But we talked about our feeling about the orgy v the couple we played with. The problem she had was more with the couple as we sort of swapped partners rather than played all together as a foursome. So we said next time if we play with another couple we will all play together as a team effort rather than a partner swap.
Maybe there is a bit a sadistic twist that the thing that excites her sexually is also what she struggles with emotionally. We both love swinging and for both of us the whole scene is very sexy. But ironicly in the aftermath that's when the feelings and over thinking kicks in.
My biggest worry at the moment is that we may be incomparable. Love is not an issuse we have loads of it. Communication is not either we have tottal honesty (one of the reasons I love being with her). But what it still boils down to that she really struggles with the idea of me being with others. The difference was sort of typified when I got a spout of jealousy today. She said she liked the idea of bringing a woman back to the hotel tonight with the guy she seeing tonight (practicly a fantasy more than a realistic option). I said I wouldn't like that. When ask why I said because we had never had a woman share a night with us and I'd want to share that with us first before another guy. She then said for her she'd be happy to do that with this guy but not me because she hasn't romantic feelings for him. So we have different stand points. So yes in a way for us to work there may be an argument that things need to be unequal. But that for me would not work because I have sacrificed so much in my life for others. I want to be able to be myself and to live life the way I want, life is too short. So maybe that sounds a bit selfish but I don't think I want to be held back.
As to the seperate thing there maybe something in that. We were talking and she said its ok for me to find some seperate play and she has never said otherwise to be fair. This is true but I have always held of arranging a private play date because I was worried this would be too much strain on her. I have a couple of women who I have got to know a bit and would love to play with. The only thing holding me back is worries about my girlfriends reaction and lack of free time. Maybe based on our conversation and her reaffirming its ok to play alone I should just go for it?
As to club play we are still planning to go to the events we had planned. But we talked about our feeling about the orgy v the couple we played with. The problem she had was more with the couple as we sort of swapped partners rather than played all together as a foursome. So we said next time if we play with another couple we will all play together as a team effort rather than a partner swap.
Maybe there is a bit a sadistic twist that the thing that excites her sexually is also what she struggles with emotionally. We both love swinging and for both of us the whole scene is very sexy. But ironicly in the aftermath that's when the feelings and over thinking kicks in.
I'd say yes. You don't want to be held back, so don't hold yourself back by imaginary bonds that the other person doesn't demand.
It's probably a good idea to let her know that you're arranging the date and see if she's still ok when things become real, but now she sais it's ok to go ahead, so you could trust that.
River
Well-known member
I find this very strange. She doesn't want to go to bed with you because she's got feelings for you? Don't you find this a little strange?
Maybe it's the way I've said it that may of confused things. Of course she wants to go to bed with me. But because she loves me she finds it hard to share me (or at least seeing me with another woman). Hense the idea of an overnight FMF threesome is not something she comfirtable with. On the other hand if the Male in the equation was not me shed be ok with that because that guy would not be me, just some guy she has no romantic feelings about.
Tinwen you maybe right. In my efforts to protect our relationship and not hurt her I am not being my self. I may be holding my self back unnesersary because she has always told me I can but she'd always find it hard. It's the knowlage that she'd find it hard that puts me off. But on reflection it may be worth the risk because at the end of the day if I am not able to be myself and free maybe we'd never workout anyway? It is my aim to live my life more true to myself. And it would test the theory that this may be easier on her. Plus I always said to her from the start we're bound to make some mistakes in this game so we always need to talk them through and have mutrual tolerance and forgiveness of mistakes. Having said that I'm not in any great rush or need to sleep with others separately. I just more I like to know I have the freedom to do so should I wish.
Yes I kinda get that line of thinking. As long as it's 'just some guy', it's all fun and games, just playing and fooling around, no consequences, no aftermath. But as soon a it's her partner it becomes all serious and threatening, especially if he's displaying genuine affection with other. What if... what if? (To do the issue justice, it's not just mental constructs, if she's been a bit neglected in the past it can be a genuine trigger.)
You'll have some hard time handling this. She will have to become secure in that you having affectionate feelings for others doesn't take away from her - which, by the tone of your posts, you're doing a lot to assure her off, so it seems to be mainly her work now.
As said before, if she's in a bad state overall, this is not so urgent, she's got other, personal stuff to do. Also, I don't know about her general level of emotional skills and self-awareness. But once she feels like tackling the issue, she could sit with it or try some of these jealousy workbooks that are around. (Did you encounter Kevin's collection of jealousy links? It's been posted in many many threads on the forum.) Or, you can go the way of slow gradual exposure and see how far you get.
Tinwen I definitely would like to explore jealousy and it's origins more. I will have to check out that material. Also more importantly I would love my girlfreind too more. I think she still has a lot to learn about herself and to work through.
We had a very intresting chat about our relationship and her night with the other guy last night. It revealed some intresting things and from what I can see we are in many ways not poles apart just if anything at different stages. I think she has had a bit of a revelation that may be start of her viewing the world more the way I do. Basically she had some great sex and he achieved something that no one had done for her in since she was a teen. She also admitted that at one stage the sex was so good that she lost her self. And that's what worried her because she hates the thought that could happen to me with another woman. Yet the sex was not the same, didn't feel the same, simply it was not me. So I asked afterwards did you love me any less. She said no. So I said but the totally losing yourself with someone else was real, she said yes. So I pointed out maybe now she can understand where I am coming from? That to me no one is her and she is irreplaceable but yet sharing a speicle moment with someone else is perfectly possible and why deny yourself that? It doesn't cheapen or weaken what we have. The reality I see is that is is perfectly possible and human why do we prohibit our selfs from it?
She went on to say that she is so scared that what we have is so great she dosent want to ruin it. I perfectly understand it. But part of what is so great about us is our honesty, communication and that we can be our selfs around each other. So for me if we start to modify our behaviour or who we our out of fear we'll ruin the relationship or hurt each other by doing so we automatically ruin the very foundation of a relationship based on communication and being truly our selves?
She then when on to say she's scared that I may lose my self in someone else and never come back. A lot of this fear seems based round her being difficult at times, hard work and that she comes with a lot of problems. So she asked what if I am being difficult and your with a woman that makes you feel good, what stops you going for her instead? A logical train of thought. But I told her honestly what stops me is no one is her or what we have. I am confident that I have the life experiance, wisdom and discipline not to go bowing to false kings. No life relationship is without hardship at times but hardship dosent make me run away. I know in my own mind after endless soul searching she's the one I want to grow old with. No one is her or what we have. I would never trade her for fools gold, however shiny.
She then said she did worry about what if she got lost in another. I said to get temporary lost is understandable. I pointed out the element of NRE type buzz when she first met this other guy (It's fading off now). She was excited and talked about him a lot (more than she probably realised). She agree she felt that high and it was exciting. She found the high scary especially since he was in no way me and she has no romantic feeling for him. I said that buzz is perfectly normal and don't feel worried or ashamed it's human and rather nice. I know to feel that buzz doesn't mean she loves me less. Because i know I can feel that buzz but in no way love her less or want her less. It has more to do with the way society programs us and discourages us from being honest with our selves. She asked me that if she ever drifts off too far to pull her back in.
I am filled with a new hope that we may actully be on the same path but a different places. I think by analising last night against her feeling for me she is starting to understand a hidden honesty about her self and the world as I see it. But at this point in time it is very scary and of course very new to us both (although it's something I rathionalised and questioned for many years, first time putting it into practise). I think the problems is not so much that we are that different deep down. More that she is just more fearful, sufferers lower self esteem and just on verge of learning new truths about her self.
Just for everyone's information I am not some robot. This is hard for me sometimes and yes I do have rounds of jealousy too. It is hard to hear that someone else has given her a really good seeing too that has blown her mind. Although this made me happy for her too. It is hard for me to hear about is big strong arms (mine are too, but this guy is very well built). But I am very good and putting my reactionary emotions aside, rationalizing things and getting over my self. Once I do I see see things clearer for what they are. My girlfriend is not so good at this rationalisation process and neen jerk emotions distort the picture and get the better of her.
So to round up our conversation I said we are not poles apart. We love each other, want each other before anything else and want to have the freedom to be our self. So let's not rush things, force things or tie our selves up constantly over thinking. Let just take it one step at a time and just let the nature of the relationship grow naturally. We are in love and what we have is so special if we can keep honest with each other and keep talking well always find a way. We also need to be tolerant and forgiving of each other and accept there will always be an error or two as we navigate this new type of relationship together. Does this sound the best strategy?
We had a very intresting chat about our relationship and her night with the other guy last night. It revealed some intresting things and from what I can see we are in many ways not poles apart just if anything at different stages. I think she has had a bit of a revelation that may be start of her viewing the world more the way I do. Basically she had some great sex and he achieved something that no one had done for her in since she was a teen. She also admitted that at one stage the sex was so good that she lost her self. And that's what worried her because she hates the thought that could happen to me with another woman. Yet the sex was not the same, didn't feel the same, simply it was not me. So I asked afterwards did you love me any less. She said no. So I said but the totally losing yourself with someone else was real, she said yes. So I pointed out maybe now she can understand where I am coming from? That to me no one is her and she is irreplaceable but yet sharing a speicle moment with someone else is perfectly possible and why deny yourself that? It doesn't cheapen or weaken what we have. The reality I see is that is is perfectly possible and human why do we prohibit our selfs from it?
She went on to say that she is so scared that what we have is so great she dosent want to ruin it. I perfectly understand it. But part of what is so great about us is our honesty, communication and that we can be our selfs around each other. So for me if we start to modify our behaviour or who we our out of fear we'll ruin the relationship or hurt each other by doing so we automatically ruin the very foundation of a relationship based on communication and being truly our selves?
She then when on to say she's scared that I may lose my self in someone else and never come back. A lot of this fear seems based round her being difficult at times, hard work and that she comes with a lot of problems. So she asked what if I am being difficult and your with a woman that makes you feel good, what stops you going for her instead? A logical train of thought. But I told her honestly what stops me is no one is her or what we have. I am confident that I have the life experiance, wisdom and discipline not to go bowing to false kings. No life relationship is without hardship at times but hardship dosent make me run away. I know in my own mind after endless soul searching she's the one I want to grow old with. No one is her or what we have. I would never trade her for fools gold, however shiny.
She then said she did worry about what if she got lost in another. I said to get temporary lost is understandable. I pointed out the element of NRE type buzz when she first met this other guy (It's fading off now). She was excited and talked about him a lot (more than she probably realised). She agree she felt that high and it was exciting. She found the high scary especially since he was in no way me and she has no romantic feeling for him. I said that buzz is perfectly normal and don't feel worried or ashamed it's human and rather nice. I know to feel that buzz doesn't mean she loves me less. Because i know I can feel that buzz but in no way love her less or want her less. It has more to do with the way society programs us and discourages us from being honest with our selves. She asked me that if she ever drifts off too far to pull her back in.
I am filled with a new hope that we may actully be on the same path but a different places. I think by analising last night against her feeling for me she is starting to understand a hidden honesty about her self and the world as I see it. But at this point in time it is very scary and of course very new to us both (although it's something I rathionalised and questioned for many years, first time putting it into practise). I think the problems is not so much that we are that different deep down. More that she is just more fearful, sufferers lower self esteem and just on verge of learning new truths about her self.
Just for everyone's information I am not some robot. This is hard for me sometimes and yes I do have rounds of jealousy too. It is hard to hear that someone else has given her a really good seeing too that has blown her mind. Although this made me happy for her too. It is hard for me to hear about is big strong arms (mine are too, but this guy is very well built). But I am very good and putting my reactionary emotions aside, rationalizing things and getting over my self. Once I do I see see things clearer for what they are. My girlfriend is not so good at this rationalisation process and neen jerk emotions distort the picture and get the better of her.
So to round up our conversation I said we are not poles apart. We love each other, want each other before anything else and want to have the freedom to be our self. So let's not rush things, force things or tie our selves up constantly over thinking. Let just take it one step at a time and just let the nature of the relationship grow naturally. We are in love and what we have is so special if we can keep honest with each other and keep talking well always find a way. We also need to be tolerant and forgiving of each other and accept there will always be an error or two as we navigate this new type of relationship together. Does this sound the best strategy?
I think what your girlfriend really wants is a break from insecurity.
You could: slow down. Spend more time with her and less swinging. Grow this relationship. She might do better if she has to deal with it less and you might find this acceptable- and you might get a solid open relationship out of it.
She could: look up jealousy workbooks, etc, and do some work to get through the insecurity.
Honestly, I think you need to do both, if you are both comfortable with it.
You could also do a trial period of monogamy. I did that with someone once- it helped his insecurities; it gave us a chance to cherishThAT relationship/-‘and within 3 months, we found out we were incompatible, and broke up. Not before talking about, “could we open up and solve this? (Opening up was not the answer.)
I still cherish that as a really happy period in my life. And it was doable because he was SO insistent on good treatment for me— if I found it too restricting, I could back out at any time. (I didn’t). I could keep seeing whoever I wanted, kiss, overnight, be emotionally intimate (I dropped all but one because I wanted to spend more time with him, too, and I was polysatirated for THAT stage of my life.)
I’m not sure it was fair to my other partners- but it was fair to me - as I was being offered secondary status for everyone else, and I wanted primary, to use gross shorthand, even at the cost of monogamy.
Sounds like if you are mainly swinging, it’s going to be okay on others if you take a break for however long from them— if it is fair to YOUz.
You could: slow down. Spend more time with her and less swinging. Grow this relationship. She might do better if she has to deal with it less and you might find this acceptable- and you might get a solid open relationship out of it.
She could: look up jealousy workbooks, etc, and do some work to get through the insecurity.
Honestly, I think you need to do both, if you are both comfortable with it.
You could also do a trial period of monogamy. I did that with someone once- it helped his insecurities; it gave us a chance to cherishThAT relationship/-‘and within 3 months, we found out we were incompatible, and broke up. Not before talking about, “could we open up and solve this? (Opening up was not the answer.)
I still cherish that as a really happy period in my life. And it was doable because he was SO insistent on good treatment for me— if I found it too restricting, I could back out at any time. (I didn’t). I could keep seeing whoever I wanted, kiss, overnight, be emotionally intimate (I dropped all but one because I wanted to spend more time with him, too, and I was polysatirated for THAT stage of my life.)
I’m not sure it was fair to my other partners- but it was fair to me - as I was being offered secondary status for everyone else, and I wanted primary, to use gross shorthand, even at the cost of monogamy.
Sounds like if you are mainly swinging, it’s going to be okay on others if you take a break for however long from them— if it is fair to YOUz.
Re (from Tinwen):
Here they are:
Kevin T.
Here they are:
- What If I Get Jealous?
- Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.
- Understanding jealousy
- How do you achieve compersion?
- Jealousy and Insecurity
- The Theory of Jealousy Management
- The Practice of Jealousy Management
- Kathy Labriola: "First Aid" for Jealousy
- Teal Swan: Jealousy and Envy
- Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability
- "The Jealousy Workbook: exercises and insights for managing open relationships," by Kathy Labriola.
Kevin T.