River's Blog

It's probably a bad idea to spill one's heart out onto the internet, but I'll do it anyway. I've been having some difficulty transitioning from friendship with cuddles and kisses, to friendship without, with my new friend. One of my newest, but also bestest and wisest of friends read the situation right and said I needed to find a way of being with him without desire. It's not easy to do, as he's so gorgeous. But facts is facts, and my longing can do none of us any good.

I actually really do love him, but it's not exactly easy to have that love always be "pure," without desire. Not that desire makes love impure! But wrong-headed or wrong-hearted desire is impure, and so I have to try and get my head and heart right about him, to let go of him in order to love him in a wholesome way that won't hurt him or me.

Thank goodness for wise, loving friends who can read things clear and say it like it is. :)
 
About a hundred years ago, I hung out with this guy who was polyamorous, before I knew much about polyamory. He said he no longer participated in the ritual known as "dating," since "dating," as he understood the term, was basically holding a "type of relationship" agenda in mind while exploring a possible relationship with a person. It wasn't fair to either party, really, he basically said. Maybe the two are going to be platonic friends, or maybe they will be lovers, or something... something. But why enter into the whole exploration with any sort of half-baked expectation, agenda, preference, etc.?

It's a good point, I think. But one has to, apparently, live longer than a single human lifetime to really embody the point. Right? I mean, it's something to keep in mind as a kind of ideal-- no agenda, no expectation, no hopes, just getting together and hanging out and letting things be as they will. I like it. It's a sound, reasonable approach.

And that's why I'm not going to say I have a "date" on Thursday. I'm going, rather, to meet up with an interesting and attractive guy I "met" online (since that's how these things are done now, right? ... sigh).

I hope we can at least be platonic friends. I need another such type of friend, as one of my besties recently dropped me without explanation. Sigh.

But he, like I, identify as "bi," so, theoretically, it could be called a "date." But I'm going to just simply meet up with him and hang out. That's all. No big deal.
 
Nothing became of the kind-of sort-of "date" I mentioned in my last post here. In fact, I think (if memory serves) that guy was one of several around that time who were all talk and no follow through. We never actually met up.

But I've been talking with another guy I "met" on the internet. We've been exchanging some very nice emails. He's intelligent (a college student), MUCH younger than I. Indeed, he's about half my age and part of another generation than mine. He's articulate, sensitive, kind, warm. And he wants a friend with benefits of the kind I like, if it's going to be FWBs. That is, he likes real intimacy and friendship, the works: talking, getting to know one another, hanging out, kissing, physical affection, touch, cuddling, holding one another. He wants a real friend, not just a sex partner. But he's not wanting a full-blown, capital-R Relationship. That's fine! He doesn't seem to be worried about there being real connection and affection.

He lives about fifty miles away from me, in New Mexico's largest city. (I think Albuquerque is the largest -- hmm.) Luckily there's a train connecting us. Choo choo!

Oh, he's cute too. Pretty eyes. And he likes older guys and finds me attractive too, though it's only been a photo exchange and some back and forth by email so far. This could be fun! :p
 
And it was fun. We spent a large chunk of the day in the bosque in Albuquerque today. It was warm and sunny there, yellow leaves, Canada geese. Lots of intimate talking and getting to know one another, some cuddling and kissing and more talk and more cuddling. Very nice, indeed. I'm sure there will be more such days in the future.

I'm learning a lot. Fast. On so many topics! It's amazing how mature some folks half my age are! And how delightfully wow some of them are!

Turns out his interest in older guys has more to do with that word, maturity. He's quite mature for a guy of his age, or of any age. I feel so blessed to have had that time with him! :)
 
And now for a word from our Sponsors....


Filipino stock fishermen wielding frenetic tonic water spatulas ate pepperoni pizza in the
West Village. "That's what you get for trying to write like that," she said. "Whadda
ya mean?" I asked. "You're free associating again." "Freud was a big pussy," I said.
"But there you are playing computer chess with zombies in Florida again!" said she.

"Yeah, well, when I become a famous poet I'll just have to let you know," said I.
"Your editor is gonna have your balls for this," she said. "I've been writing this farking
script for decades," said I. "I told you to go into advertising... or Opera" she said.
(She always capitalizes Opera.)

"All of your characters are shallow and insipid," she said. "Not believable for a minute,"
said she. "All of your flip charts are hyperbolic," I said. "All of your dreams are fantastic," said
she. "You couldn't write your way out of a wet paper bag," she said. "You cannot dance yourself
into a decent frenzy," I said.

"Every book has a spine," she said. "Signature binding has a signature," said I. "I guess that's
why it's all so delicate," she said. "I must agree," said I. "This body is so much weight to carry,"
she said. "If you dance like a madman, it's easier," said I.

"But what of punctuation," she asked? "I cannot think that way," I said.
 
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I'll call him ABQ here. That's short for Albuquerque, and that's where he lives, while I live about fifty miles north, in Santa Fe.

Somewhere on this forum I mentioned that he seemed be pushing me away, or to have lost interest, or whatever. But it turns out that's not so. He's just the sort of guy who is slow to respond to text messages, as in, sometimes days slow. He reassured me that this is the case "even with my closest friends." I'm glad. Sort of. LOL. I mean, now I have a 50-miles-distant friend with extras who's slow to respond to text messages, sometimes days slow.

Oh well.

He sent me a reassuring text this morning and said he'd like to come spend time with me up here. :)

Maybe I'll tweak ABQ a little and call him Abe. LOL. And I'll find him a top hat.
 
Yesterday ABQ said to me (paraphrasing), "Let's set aside this restrictive definition we've been using for what we're exploring. Let's just see what happens and put no narrowing definition on it." We were defining what we were exploring as a FWB situation. Now it's a new, emerging friendship with no holds barred and lots of touch options. Not "dating," (which implies something romantic to me) per se. But not "not dating," either. He didn't want me to be worried that I may appear to be "romancing" him by mildly complaining 'cause I won't be able to spend any real/private time with him for a month, and by inviting him for lunch sooner than that. (I have to take the train way down there just to have lunch with him. It's kind of a big deal.)

It takes over an hour to arrive in Albuquerque from Santa Fe by train. The next train back is hours later. I have to be prepared to spend much of the day there. I can bring my work with me and do it in coffee shops. No problem.

He was clearly happy that I wanted to meet him for lunch. He's very busy with his university work, so I won't get to see him much until winter break, and probably not at all in a private space for any duration. But it feels good. It feels like a solid human connection. Waiting is less sad 'cause I feel genuinely connected with him. It's a weird sentence to utter from my mouth, that last one, 'cause my tendency is to be sad when I can't spend time with someone I feel connected with. But I'm feeling glad, instead, 'cause despite the month of waiting, at least there's a genuine warmth between us.

Our age difference is sort of floating in the back of my mind, as if numbers of years really means something. In this case, it honestly doesn't seem to mean a hell of a lot. This guy feels entirely like an age peer. I KNOW he's much, much younger than me. But when we talk, his shimmering full-spectrum intelligence (he's got all of the intelligences online!) is, well... shimmering. He's knowledgeable, and wise as hell for his years. I'm just a little more wrinkled than he is, and I've had a few more trips around the sun. That's about it.

BUT some folks are probably going to think one or both of us have serious "issues," and will almost certainly make a lot of judgements about us if we really are "dating." I don't think I'll enjoy that part of it.
 
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River said:
And now for a word from our Sponsors....


Filipino stock fishermen wielding frenetic tonic water spatulas ate pepperoni pizza in the
West village. "That's what you get for trying to write like that," she said. "Whadda
ya mean?" I asked. "You're free associating again." "Freud was a big pussy," I said.
"But there you are playing computer chess with zombies in Florida again!" said she.

"Yeah, well, when I become a famous poet I'll just have to let you know," said I.
"Your editor is gonna have your balls for this," she said. "I've been writing this farking
script for decades," said I. "I told you to go into advertising... or Opera" she said.
(She always capitalizes Opera.) said I.

All of your characters are shallow and insipid she said. Not believable for a minute,
said she. All of your flip charts are hyperbolic, i said. All of your dreams are fantastic said
she. You couldn't write your way out of a wet paper bag, she said, You cannot dance yourself
into a decent frenzy i said.

Every book has a spine, she said. Signature binding has a signature, said I. I guess that's
why it's all so delicate, she said. I must agree, said I. This body is so much weight to carry
she said, If you dance like a madman it's easier, said I. But what of punctuation, she asked?
I cannot think that way, I said.
Click to expand...

"I cannot think that way" pretty much sums up my experience of poetry ...unless you are giving me a Robert Service anthem of a story, then I am lost.
 
JaneQSmythe said:
"I cannot think that way" pretty much sums up my experience of poetry ...unless you are giving me a Robert Service anthem of a story, then I am lost.
Click to expand...

That was no poem. What that was was a total disaster. I was goofing off with free association. It was regretful then and having it repeated is regretful now. If I could delete it, I would. But I haven't got such powers. :mad:
 
I spent a couple of hours (roughly) with ABQ yesterday. It took an hour and a half on the train to get there, then another hour and a half back.

I don't expect I'll be seeing him again until his winter break from university studies. We ate hamburgers and fries for lunch, then went and sat by the duck pond at the university and talked a little. We and allowed our legs to touch as we sat close. I touched his ankle. This (apart from hugging goodbye and hello) was about as much touching as we could get away with. In retrospect, it may seem a little odd that we didn't find a secret place to steal a kiss.

It was quite cold in the morning (brrrr!), but by the time we'd had lunch, the air around the duck pond was warmish and the sun was shining, so it was comfortable outdoors.

While we were having lunch, our legs brushed together under the table, which eventually led to me entwining his legs with mine. I really didn't give a shit if anyone saw this, and he didn't seem to care much either. As I said, we're both tactile sorts. But we're different, too. He'd be fine with spending the early hours of Getting To Know One Another in relative silence, as far as talking goes. I'm a gabber. I yammer. It's what I do. But not so much with small talk. From his side, if we could just cuddle in silence for a couple of hours, he'd be fine with that. He's also fond of just being together without touching, just sharing space in close proximity. How do I know? He says so! He does talk. I talk. But he'd be fine with not talking.

His being so busy with university studies, and our living far-ish apart, makes things challenging. He's more available to connect emotionally, etc., than most guys (and folks) I've met in a long while, at least insofar as mutual attraction is concerned beyond the platonic. But he's apparently not able to come spend time with me for weeks and weeks. And only maybe a lunch hello seems to be available to us otherwise, if he'd even be into that again.

So there is a certain echo with the unavailable ones here, perhaps, just in terms of how much time we might have together, anyway. It's difficult for me to feel really connected with someone I only see every so many weeks apart (a month or so), maybe even especially in the early stages of getting to know one another.

I can't go spend time with him at his place, 'cause he has no privacy where he lives.
 
So I waited and waited for his winter break and for the day in that time when he'd come visit me. Winter break came and went, and he made no contact. Since I was the one always contacting him, I decided it was his turn to contact me, as he said he would when he had time to be with me.

I sent him a text message a few days back, saying, "I hope you had a nice winter break," and he replied "Thanks. So, how are you?" And I decided not to respond, 'cause I don't really think he cares how I am.

Such is life in the desert.
 
It is distinctly possible that I'm at the very first start, seedling stage, of something more substantial with another, apart from Kevin. Like, ever. As in, this never happened before. No one has ever opened to me this way since I've been with Kevin, and I've not done that either. Not really. Not like this. Not with so much actuality about it.

Polyamory is feeling less "theoretical" or, "I'm open to it happening" after today than ever previously. It feels like my new friend and I are opening into something different than I've experienced before. Something more whole and round and fulfilling and real, as far as additional partners go.

I've seen the start and end of possibilities before, and I'm not one for counting unhatched chickens, but something truly new and fresh seems to have begun.

See: www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=420742#post420742

We both want to continue, to explore, to spend time together. And the cuddles are truly amazing. :)

Previously, the new guy, TNG? (so new that I don't yet have an appropriate pseudonym for him here) had said that he was far more into women than men. Today he said, basically, "Sex (gender) is not that big a deal. It's really about the PERSON." He said he felt passion and connection with me akin to what he might have previously experienced with a woman, but that what he felt with me was about ME, not my sex, not my gender. Me.

Now tell me that's not sweet!
 
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I do not think that people should be compared with swine. But I think that many should read this article, because now many have forgotten how to take care and behave with other people.
 
BigSven said:
I do not think that people should be compared with swine. But I think that many should read this article, because now many have forgotten how to take care and behave with other people.
Click to expand...

Hi BigSven -

Article? Do you mean what I posted immediately above? If so, what was it I said which you are responding to? I'm curious. I'm not sure I follow what you mean.
 
Those who haven't read it may be interested in the Dating & Sex thread, wherein I update my situation. www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117688

Here I am again "dating" (a word always to be placed in scare quotes) a fellow living roughly fifty miles away in Albuquerque. Again, at least so far, the new fella hasn't got a lot of time to spend with me. We had one great "date" and have exchanged a lot of emails and texts (especially early on). We have plans to go hiking this coming Tuesday, which will be almost three weeks after our first "date."

I'm using the word "date" because it's familiar and requires little explanation. But I put it in scare quotes because I don't really do dating, per se. I'm more of a hanging-out-together kind of guy. I adopted this stance when long ago a friend explained to me that he didn't "date" folks because "dating" is about sort of checking a person out to see if they fit a particular relationship agenda, and I agree(d) So now I'm more of a hanging out sort of guy. But, that said, I think the new fella and I have more-or-less the same notion of where we're at and what we're exploring, as you'll see in the above linked thread.

Anyway, I'm here just to say how weird it is to be in a situation, again, where I'm only seeing a guy every several weeks. Whenever I've been "into" (as the kids say) somebody, I've always wanted to see them at least twice a week, not every so many weeks. I'm hoping we'll get to a weekly visit pattern, if possible, and that he'll want to talk by text or email in the in-between time, if only a little, so the feeling of a real connection will be there.
 
Hmm. My last post here was made on Mar 29, 2019. Been a while.

I know folks in this forum are generally very dubious and skeptical about long distance relationships (LDRs) turning out well, but I now believe I may be an exception to the rule, because my new sweetie (of about ten weeks from the beginning of the platonic friend stage through to deciding we were boyfriend/girlfriend) and I are planning for her to get a special kind of visa which allows her to come from Germany and live in my (pathetic) country for six months. (I say pathetic because of the recently ear-pierced former president likely to win the next election.)

She'll be coming here to engage in a somatics educational program in which I am the teacher, and she will be among the first to be certified in the somatics practice I cobbled together as a synthesis of previously existing traditions. It's an embodied mindfulness practice (a sort of meditation) which includes spontaneous movement. It's really cool stuff! We've never passed on this emerging and evolving practice (which I taught for six years prior to the pandemic) to a next generation of teachers, and I don't want what we created (it was a collaboration, but with me as the only teacher) to dissolve upon my eventual demise. I want it to become a living tradition which teachers can pass on to teachers.

Flying from Germany to New Mexico is very much not a small thing. It's expensive and time consuming. Sitting in an aluminum tube for many hours is a high price to pay, too. The average flight time from Germany to New Mexico typically ranges from 12 to 15 hours. But she has to take a train trip in Germany just to get to an airport where affordable tickets can be found.

Anyway, we're in love with one another, though we've not yet met face-to-face. (We met in an internet forum, and not a "dating site".) We talk every day, often for more hours than we really should. Sigh.

I will be her teacher, yes. But she will also be my teacher (and is my teacher) of other things, and we don't have any weird or creepy power dynamic shit going on between us -- at all. It's very refreshing that way, since most folks tend to fall into culturally-scripted gender roles and that sort of thing.
 
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Congrats River. I know for me, I always say I am incapable of LDR's. My absolute requirement for touch is too intense to engage in an LDR. I am happy for those that can make it work. :) So congrats and congrats on the lengthy visit, thats fantastic :)
 
Ariakas said:
Congrats River. I know for me, I always say I am incapable of LDR's. My absolute requirement for touch is too intense to engage in an LDR. I am happy for those that can make it work. :) So congrats and congrats on the lengthy visit, thats fantastic :)
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She and I are also touch junkies. We love and need touch, very much. This is why our plan is to have her live part time -- for months on end -- here in the states, with me spending as much time there as is necessary for us not to be apart much. She has some very portable internet-based work she does, which doesn't require that she live in any particular place, and I can probably teach part time in Germany, as well.
 
As another LDR person, I envy her her portable life. And I wish you both the very best, because I know how important it is to close that geographical gap whenever possible.
 
Evie said:
As another LDR person, I envy her her portable life. And I wish you both the very best, because I know how important it is to close that geographical gap whenever possible.
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Thanks Evie.

Her life is not yet fully "portable," but she is working on it, with my loving support and encouragement. She has so many talents and skills to offer on a website with many services offered, from German language teaching to English speakers/writers (and vice versa), to "human touch" translation between these languages, to teaching all kinds of computer-related skills, including video game design and construction, to both analogue and digital graphic design, and beyond into various arts. Yup, that's my gal! I'm so blessed.
 
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