Considering Open Marriage/Relationship Advice or Input Needed

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Replies in bold

Waiting until you've considered options and communicated expectations doesn't equate to putting a relationship on a pedestal.

They've considered options

I do think ThinBlueLine has put their relationship on a pedestal, with the foregone conclusions about marriage and the desire for it to remain primary, but I don't consider this unusual, and I took it as a "given" based on his insistence.
Putting on a pedestal has little to do with hierarchy. IT's about overthinking a situation until you have a inlfated and unrealistic view of your relationship and its ability to evolve

Even without the pedestal -- even accepting that the current relationship is as likely to fail as any new relationship -- there is value in not going off half-cocked (an opinion I'm sure many of us hold as strongly as some hold the "jump and see where you land" opinion). Slowing down doesn't mean giving in to monogamous inertia and poisoning your relationship for future non-monogamy. It just means ... slowing down. You can slow down and do the legwork of thinking and learning about what you want in solo poly relationship-seeking as much as in already-monogamously-coupled exploration.

I think that the attempt to dictate what your partner does during a date with someone else is "giving in to monogamous inertia". I don't see how practicing how to be good at monogamy even when you don't want to be will prepare you for polyamory. It gives you a false impression of how relationships really work.

It only sets a precedent or instills a hierarchy if you want it to. The whole point is to learn and consider what you've done by default and what you would do with more purpose. Why is "just do different, as soon as you want to" better than "maybe you want to do different -- think about it a minute"?

How can you know what to different if you weren't allowed to act off of your own instincts? How can you know what you want?


Or, he might cause trouble. So ... maybe slow down before risking either of these until you have a plan for dealing with them?

The guy from work might cause trouble or he might not. How you perceive that risk depends on individual assessment. Personally, it doesn't make sense that he would risk his own job to get back at her.


Changing the supportive relationship they have with this friend will have an effect. It could be an amazing effect (if everyone involved is game, chemistry flows, jealousy is managed, and magical fairies and unicorn dust whatnot). It could suck. That's the whole point. What's the emergency? Wait, learn, show caring. Lower risk, longer-term investments.

Or there could be some normal ups and downs but everyone ends up about as happy as they were before, but hopefully slightly more. Why one extreme or the other?


This is absolutely a valid approach. It doesn't sound completely in line with the setup the OP provided as far as wanting to maintain a primary relationship with Z, get something for himself, and manage jealousy. Or even a little bit in line with it. This approach will also likely create even more drama, which Z seems to crave, and ThinBlueLine should probably get used to, so maybe everyone will be "happy" with this approach. May B will distance himself. Maybe he will jump on it, as a secondary. Maybe he will assume he can cowboy Z away. Maybe ThinBlueLine will find another girlfriend and Z will combust. There are certainly many possibilities, and one approach is to throw the emotional grenades and see which parts land where. In any case, I do hope B has some other friends.

I've seen just as many people bite the bullet and go on to happy and healthy non monogamous relationships. Why all the doom and gloom?

 

[SlowPoly]

I think that the attempt to dictate what your partner does during a date with someone else is "giving in to monogamous inertia".

I haven't ever counselled dictating what other people do with their bodies.

I've seen just as many people bite the bullet and go on to happy and healthy non monogamous relationships. Why all the doom and gloom?

That is heartening. I will maintain that careful thought and planning tend to yield better outcomes than poorly informed impulsive decision-making in a time of multiple sources of stress, where there's no actual emergency or expiration of some unique and probability-weighted-positive-outcome opportunity happening.

Ultimately a diversity of perspectives does serve to offer some validation for any course of action, so ThinBlueLine has a lot to work with here. I wish him well.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I haven't ever counselled dictating what other people do with their bodies.


That is heartening. I will maintain that careful thought and planning tend to yield better outcomes than poorly informed impulsive decision-making in a time of multiple sources of stress, where there's no actual emergency or expiration of some unique and probability-weighted-positive-outcome opportunity happening.

Ultimately a diversity of perspectives does serve to offer some validation for any course of action, so ThinBlueLine has a lot to work with here. I wish him well.

The OP forbade his partner from kissing. Slowing down in the context of this thread means limiting your actions to your partner's comfort.

 

[ThinBlueLine]

So we decided yesterday after she had a long talk with B that we would open up our relationship. I guess B had previously discussed an open with his wife but he realized he didn't want one with her because he wanted out of the marriage.

They didn't do anything aside from kissing goodbye when he left.

He and I have texted before so I reached out to him and told him my conversation went well with Z about opening up. He just doesn't want to feel used or get hurt in the end and have all of us not be able to be friends.

His parameter is that he wants to actually be given the chance to see Z and spend time with her when he can.

I am afraid which might be more of the NRE showing thru for both of them, but I'm afraid he's already wanting to spend a significant amount of time with Z and we just started a day ago.

I guess he is unsure how to proceed forward from here meaning can he call her and text her when he wants? Can he pick her up for breakfast?

I had an argument with Z because she felt I was putting too many parameters on the open relationship and that it was being too overbearing or controlling. I did have some parameters that I was more uncomfortable with that weren't entirely fair I admit. For example we both agreed safe sex always and she is on BC but I also said I didn't want B cumming inside Z even with a condom on. Z felt this was overbearing having 3 forms of birth control and how ridiculous that is.

I have stated my biggest fear is if he is constantly calling her or taking her out to breakfast or lunch I'm going to lose time with her.

Z said yeah but we're living together you get me all the time. I said not if he's coming over and taking you away when it's supposed to be our time together..

For example they both work graves I work swings.. I suggested why doesn't he come after I leave for work after 1400hrs instead of at 0800hrs when he gets off and I'm still asleep in bed with you?

I feel like I'm the bad guy here because I have fears of being demoted especially since I don't have anyone yet.

B said he doesn't want to be restricted to a strict schedule of only one day a week he gets to see Z because he is going to feel like he's being used and he wants to actually establish a relationship and wants to see Z

It's a power struggle right now for sure but I'm hoping we can all be respectful of each other's needs and be flexible and able to compromise.

For those who have been through this what kind of scheduling arrangement did you find worked best especially at the very early stages?

They both feel if there's too many rules or parameters it's not really an open relationship.

I do feel like I was overbearing earlier at parts of the argument. The thing I'm also struggling with is Z wants all of us to hang out together and play games or just chill. But I'm trying to get over my selfishness and finger pointing that that's not fair because he is getting more time than me with Z technically.

Just trying to work thru this and be fair to everyone involved

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

It helps if everyone genuinely wants to spend time with their partners. Schedules usually do need to be flexible but it's your partner who should feel off if she sees she hasn't spent much time with you. Time shouldn't have to be prescribed. It should be freely given.

Being at home at the same time as your nesting partner isn't the same as spending quality time. Make sure you make space just for quality time.

 

[GalaGirl]

I guess he is unsure how to proceed forward from here meaning can he call her and text her when he wants? Can he pick her up for breakfast?

That's his stuff. He can sort that out with Z.

Don't take on EVERYONE's stuff on for yourself. You have enough stress just dealing with your own stuff. You don't have to be unkind about it, but do practice good boundaries.

For example we both agreed safe sex always and she is on BC but I also said I didn't want B cumming inside Z even with a condom on. Z felt this was overbearing having 3 forms of birth control and how ridiculous that is.

I think if BC pills and condoms are reasonable for you guys for safer sex practices, that is fair. Glad you see that telling B and Z what to do with their bodies is crossing into overbearing.

You sound like you want to have something "special" left for you. Is that true?

I have stated my biggest fear is if he is constantly calling her or taking her out to breakfast or lunch I'm going to lose time with her.

So your worry/problem is with Z. Like she won't know how to balance her time between two partners. Is that true?

Cuz he can call all he wants, but is HER who sets her schedule. If she's scheduling all her time with him and neglecting time with you? That's her doing that.

Z said yeah but we're living together you get me all the time. I said not if he's coming over and taking you away when it's supposed to be our time together.

You may consider not framing it like "he is coming to take her away" from you. SHE sets where she spends her time. He can invite her to whatever, and SHE is the one who accepts or declines the invitation.

Living together doing chores is NOT a fun date night. Is she able to see that?

Taking (Z+you) couple time for granted is also not cool. Is she able to see that?

For example they both work graves I work swings.. I suggested why doesn't he come after I leave for work after 1400hrs instead of at 0800hrs when he gets off and I'm still asleep in bed with you?

Well, if she wants to get up early... that's her deal. If what you miss is bed snuggles? Could frame it in terms of what YOU would like. "I'd like to continue bed snuggles. Could you be willing to do that?"

Rather than framing it in terms of him and what he gets or what they are doing.

Maybe that helps have less blow ups and like you are trying to "control" their side of the V. Attend to your own side of V.

I feel like I'm the bad guy here because I have fears of being demoted especially since I don't have anyone yet.

Have you expressed that fear of demotion to her? Having a dating partner yourself like (you + ?) is not gonna solve problems in the (you + Z) layer. Things between (you + Z) get solved between (you + Z).

B said he doesn't want to be restricted to a strict schedule of only one day a week he gets to see Z because he is going to feel like he's being used and he wants to actually establish a relationship and wants to see Z

Well... do you all agree on what open model you practice?

And how much time does Z have to share across 2 partners? Does that time meet both partner's wants?

It's still the "get to know you" time.

For those who have been through this what kind of scheduling arrangement did you find worked best especially at the very early stages?

Each grouping is different. You guys are going to have to figure it out. With your cop schedules that's another thing to deal with that 9 to 5 people don't.

The thing I'm also struggling with is Z wants all of us to hang out together and play games or just chill. But I'm trying to get over my selfishness and finger pointing that that's not fair because he is getting more time than me with Z technically.

Are you comfortable saying "No?" Because people having some wants doesn't mean you have to automatically up and do them.

You could say "Thanks for inviting me. I'll consider it in future, but it's too many new things at once for me right now. For now I have to pass on that."

How much of Z's time would you like ask for? Like ACTUALLY couple time, not just clocking "roomie" time doing the laundry or her wanting "hanging in trio" time. What "counts" to you as quality time shared as (you + Z?) What "counts" to Z? Are they the same?

It may be hard for you as established partner to go back to asking her out more formally again rather than just having "dibs" on her free time.

And she's going to have to learn that you just don't "automatically" come to her things. She has to actually ask you out too. She doesn't automatically have dibs on your free time either.

Each of you manages your own time and where you choose to spend it.

Galagirl

 

[ThinBlueLine]

Can you be in love with two people at once?

This question came up mostly with my fear of losing her in all of this...

It's not a social norm to be in love with two people at once.

So those already in a poly relationship maybe you can explain how it is possible to be in love with two people at once but still keeping that same strong love youve always had with your primary relationship?

Ive recognized my biggest insecurity in all of this is she will fall in love with B and ultimately fall out of love with me.

 

[vinsanity0]

This question came up mostly with my fear of losing her in all of this...

It's not a social norm to be in love with two people at once.

So those already in a poly relationship maybe you can explain how it is possible to be in love with two people at once but still keeping that same strong love youve always had with your primary relationship?

Ive recognized my biggest insecurity in all of this is she will fall in love with B and ultimately fall out of love with me.

The most common analogy is that of having children. Let's say you have a kid. 5 years later you have another. You're not going to quit living the first one. You are going to love both your kids.

It might help you to realize social norm does not equal natural.

Yours is a common fear. It's something you have to overcome in order for this to work.

 

[dingedheart]

YES it is a common fear but it’s not silly or ungrounded. There are plenty of couples that have passed through the forum that ended up divorced/ married to the new partner.

And to me the kid analogy is So so flawed ...loving your children and that of romantic pair bonding but whatever helps I guess.

 

[breathemusic]

Here's the thing, not everyone can. But some can. I have 2 partners that I love very much. Now I'd say it's true that I DO love them in different ways, but that's just because the relationships have different dynamics, my partners have different personalities, and one partner I've been with for 5 years and the other only about 10 months. So my longer term partner, we've sort of passed that intense NRE heat sort of love and are in slow burn of a longer term relationship where there is still passion, but we also just live together and see each other all the time. So it's still a strong love, but it's more like the glowing consistent heat of hot embers that are still bright and hot and stay lit for a really long time. The love with my other partner, because we don't see each other as often (twice a week ish) and don't live together and are newer, etc. our love still feels like the hot flash of when you've first lit the fire and it's crazy intense and the flames are high because everything is just really burning up. But that will calm in time too (it probably already has some, in fact) and will eventually feel more like the long slow burn as the NRE passes.

What this doesn't mean is that just because I've started a fire with one partner, that the other one has to go out. It's literally like having 2 different fires for me. I'm not moving the fire from one place (or in this case person) to another. I'm building a second fire. Now does that mean I have to balance both fires and tend to the needs of both? Sure. But for folks that can love more than 1 person, that's possible.

The common analogy used is "well, a parent can love more than 1 kid right?" Realistically that's a different sort of love, but really the same principle exists. Love isn't defined by the inability to love anyone else. It's purely how you feel about that specific person.

So ask yourself, what is it about loving 1 person that you feel means you couldn't possibly love anyone else?

 

[FallenAngelina]

...how it is possible to be in love with two people at once but still keeping that same strong love youve always had with your primary relationship?

A better question is to ask yourself whether you are able to be in a relationship with someone who is in love with someone else. Is polyamory what you want? Do you want to be in a relationship in which you romantically and sexually share your partner? Of course it's possible to be in love with multiple people at once and to openly express it, that's what polyamory is all about. Your fiancé seems to want this kind of relationship. Do you?

 

[GalaGirl]

Ive recognized my biggest insecurity in all of this is she will fall in love with B and ultimately fall out of love with me

Even if you guys did not Open, would that still be a fear? That she would fall out of love with you? That is always a possibility. Because people's feelings can change based on how it is going in the relationship.

My observation in my group of friends --

• If the quality of relationship is good? People are participating together well? It goes well. They stay together.
  
• If the quality of the relationship is poor? People are NOT participating together well? They cannot do conflict resolution? They end up apart.

And the standard for what is considered "good" and "poor" -- that is set by the actual people involved. Nobody else. Only they know what they are into and what they are not into. What they will and will not put up with.

It's not a social norm to be in love with two people at once.

Depends on the company you keep. Also... Society isn't the one doing it.

If you are afraid her feelings for you will change and she will fall out of love with you? It is HER. You could move to another city or country with another culture, another set of societal norms... it's still HER you are worried about, right? So it's not really about society.

You fear SHE is unable to love two people at once.

It's a reasonable fear to me. You haven't seen her demonstrate this skill.

And sometimes? People try to use "poly" as a "soft exit" from a relationship. Like they want to have the new one lined up before dumping the old one.

So some amount of uncertainty here seems normal to me.

You have chosen to take a risk -- to Open now during wedding stress for her to date a coworker when you don't really feel great about her seeing coworkers in the police dept. And for what sounded like "Open to FWB" at first but really? It's sounding more like "polyamory" -- at least on her side.

It's a LOT to take in in a very short time.

I'm concerned that you may have been up for FWB and casual sex, but you are not up for full on poly. What ARE you up for at this point in time? Could you clarify?

I am also concerned you might be jumping in and going along for the ride even though this isn't what you REALLY want. Because you fear that if you are honest about what you really want or don't want, she will end up dumping you. Are you doing any of that?

So those already in a poly relationship maybe you can explain how it is possible to be in love with two people at once but still keeping that same strong love youve always had with your primary relationship?

I think it boils down to relationship skills, attention, and participation to me. There's nothing special to the poly part of it.

Some couples practice poly and become long lasting couples because they participate and attend to their relationship.

Some couples are military and apart a lot, but become long lasting couples because they participate and attend to their relationship.

Some deal with big illness, financial struggles, etc. But they become long lasting couples because they participate and attend to their relationship.

Are you both participating and attending to your shared relationship? Or just giving it a "whatever" -- like phoning it in?

Are you worried you don't have the skills? Or she doesn't have the skills? I know you are getting married soon. What sort of premarital work did you guys do? Did you take a marriage class online, at a house of worship, county extension center, read a book, see a marriage counselor?

Bottom line -- Do YOU really want to be doing polyamory here? Or some blend of poly for her and Open for you?

Because only you can answer stuff about your own willingness (do you really want to be doing open or poly or whatever) and your own ability (do you have the relationship skills so you and her can be a long lasting couple regardless of whether you practice Open or Poly or whatever.)

If you are looking for reassurance that she is NEVER gonna leave you? Well, one cannot say never. I've been with my spouse for decades and neither of us wants to change that. But I still wouldn't say NEVER. Over time people can grow apart.

You might do better addressing that fear from another angle.

Like...

"So I'm scared she's going to fall out of love with me and dump me. A break up would stink. How would I cope with that... if it happened?"

So you can reassure YOUR OWN SELF that you can handle it and will ultimately be ok.

Like you don't WANT it... but if it were to happen? Maybe it could help you feel better to know you can cope with an emergency plan already thought out.

More like you you have decided to jump in WITH a parachute. Rather than just jumping.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

I see I missed quite a thread when I took a break from the board this summer!

Funny how 95% of the members here recommended slowing down, doing your research, seeing a counselor, postponing the wedding, don't fuck a co-worker, etc., etc. And then one member comes on and says, "Go for it. Damn the torpedoes."

And ThinBlueLine goes for it.

What have we learned here, kids?

TBL said at one point he and his wife had a sex session or two where they fantasized about the co-worker fucking her (not to mention a lovely imaginary woman for TBL). And it was extremely hot.

So, my takeaway is, "Never underestimate the power of a hot sex fantasy."