Let me clarify the people and the connections:
- Jim and I are married.
- Jim has fallen in love with his friend with benefits, Zoe, who is also a co-worker.
- Zoe is married to Dave. Dave has given the 'Don't tell, I wont ask, but i given you permission,' and there are no sexual relations between Zoe and Dave anymore.
- I am in the beginning stages with a very new prospective partner, Carl.
Thank you for clearing that up! I had added a whole other person, lol.
I'm jealous, and feel deceived, as Jim and I have talked about poly and bringing in others, but I needed more conversations and time. The only thing I asked for was to have honesty and a heads up as to if his FWB was turning into something more.
Both of them had felt things growing for months, knew it was happening, but didn't talk with me. Yes, I understand that they may not have truly understood what they were feeling, but they both knew something had changed.
That's the crux of the matter. When moving from "casual sex," or "FWBs," or "swinging" to something deeper, the line is very fine. If you've never felt a desire to cross it before, you may cross it without realizing it! I take issue with Kevin, I do not call this cheating. I call it an evolution, and an opportunity to renegotiate personal boundaries, needs and desires.
I feel a lack of respect from their actions, and am having a hard time trusting their conversations now.
Where there specific actions, or more just unidentifiable feelings? Actions follow feelings. What did they actually do that you don't like? What is it about what they are doing that hurts you? What if you had feelings and actions develop with one of your sex partners?
I can see how it reads as I'm a petty, jealous person.
No. It reads to me as, "I was a swinger, and so was my husband, but I/we have noticed that feelings of love, or at least fondness, can develop with an attractive sex partner, on both sides. How can we deal with this, with the least amount of hurt to all involved?"
I am more accustomed to a swinger's lifestyle, and have worked very hard at the dynamics that accompany it.
So, you know it's hard work, when swinging, to preserve the "original couple's" "sacred" status. You know that, to try to prevent love, you need to avoid eye contact and kissing, to avoid non-sexual cuddling, you know to get up and out of bed and get dressed and part ways as soon as possible after sex is over. Some swingers are friends, and can do "double dates" as a foursome, eat together, drink, even play board games or shoot pool, or whatever, but that still takes work to not fall in love. In fact, I bet many more people fall in love than is admitted.
That's all so hard, and to polyamorous people, unnatural. Some of us would find it feels downright unhealthy and distressing.
I'm not opposed to a polyamorous life, from what I have read and researched so far. But I think there is so much to this learning curve. I'm new to this, and to the forum. I'm working on the language (so please have patience lol), and what it truly means.
So far, I have realized that there are many different structures, and you need to see what works for you (collectively) first, and see where it goes from there.
There are different forms under the non-monogamy umbrella. Cheating, swinging, casual sex, wife swapping, soft swap, cuckoldry, FWBs. If you add in LGBTQ issues, it can get even more complicated. The newest form is polyamory, and hardly anyone understands it! All the other forms assume MF monogamy is superior to all the rest. But in poly, this is not the case at all.
Modern polyamory grew out of the feminist movement. Men have always been able to have multiple love relationships, more or less without negative consequences. "Boys will be boys" and all that. However, women had much more social stigma against having multiple sexual or romantic relationships. This is changing as birth control become developed, and easier for unmarried women to get and use. We have autonomy now, more options for financial independence... well, at least more than we used to have. There's a long way to go.
As far as "determining collectively" what shape you want your love relationships to take, I disagree. You have self agency. So do Jim and Zoe and Dave. No one is in authority to another. You are all adults. You can "consent" to be in relationship with someone, with certain guidelines and desires respected. But you can't force someone to do what you want, as a collective, or Borg, to use a Star Trek term.
In poly, the health of the individual comes first. If a relationship no longer suits someone, we don't expect them to stay in it, no matter what. You always have the option to leave a relationship if you've outgrown it, or have moved in different directions.
Divorce is an option. Cheating is an option, but not ethical. Polyamory is ethical. Swinging is an option for sex with relative strangers, but it's hampered by the thought that love is bad. In poly, love is good, the more, the merrier.
It can change and morph as different people come and go, and bring a new perspectives and dynamics.
I'm not attracted to Zoe, nor is she to me. I like Dave, but he is a really quiet person, and if we get together socially, I struggle to have conversations with Dave, if Jim and Zoe are off on their own.
So, it sounds like double dating isn't a great choice. It's best to let Jim and Zoe have their dates, and you and Dave go out with friends of your own, and not sit there drumming your fingers while Jim and Zoe and relating to each other.
Jim, I love and adore. And I'm not really OK with him falling in love with Zoe.
So, writing this down I have no idea what this mess would be called, but probably not poly, right?
... And it does feel like cheating. They did have my consent to be FWBs, or play partners in the swinging world. But romantically involved in a relationship, we had not gotten there yet. It is possible we would have gotten there without all this crisis, as Jim and I would try something new, assess and see if we both liked it, try it again, then ascend to a new place. So, yes, I feel my choice was taken from me.
Sometimes feelings crop up unexpectedly. It's hard for men and women to be "just friends," since we are biologically programmed to be attracted to each others' shapes and smells, voices, etc., etc. And the more we fuck, the more attracted we can become, across the board. Swinging, and trying to keep things, casual, is, for most people, playing with fire.
It seems that so far, men are either biologically or, more likely, socially programmed to separate sex and love. Some women can too, of course. But you never know. Once in a while, love just hits, and it can be very unexpected. It's an opportunity for growth. Changes are always happening in life.
He has apologized for his part and his actions. I have accepted and we are now trying to move forward.
This saddens me. I find it triggering. I was always poly at heart, and always getting crushes on others. But I was in a monogamous marriage. (I thought my feelings for others were bad, that I was a bad person.) My ex husband was constantly vigilant and jealous and suspicious. We were monogamous. I had ethics. I never cheated, physically. I didn't even flirt much. I never touched another man, never kissed another man. (I was/am bisexual, and I never touched another woman sexually either, but he eventually thought it would be hot...)
Often, he assumed I was crushing on someone when I wasn't. Often, he assumed I'd like to leave him for another. I never did. I left him finally because his low self esteem was hemming me in and making me feel like a pet in a cage. He was acting like my owner.
It's sad to have to apologize for just having feelings.
He understands that I need time, we need to have deeper conversations, and he is actively listening and clarifying when he doesn't understand my point of view. Everything is transparent and there is nothing that can't be asked or answered, of me, or him, no matter how hard or uncomfortable.
It's good to be open and transparent. But keep in mind that Zoe and Jim don't get to have their relationship shape dictated to them by you. There's negotiation, informed consent, but no "permission" needed in an equal relationship between adults.
It is the same with Zoe, as well. She was and is a friend, and none of us want to lose that foundation connection with each other.
They have both chosen to hold off sexual relations, dates, etc., to give me time, and to also take time for themselves. Zoe especially is evaluating how she wants to fit into the relationship, and what her needs are, and if they will be met. I respect that, and we have had many talks when a scenario arises in her self refection, and needs an answer.
It's good you feel she is a friend. Keep in mind that some poly people do not know their metamours, and do not want to be involved with them in any way. They feel like they are dating one person, and do not need to negotiate with that person's other partner. They'd say that that it is Jim's job, as the hinge, to negotiate relationship shapes with each of his partners, individually.
Just as you and any new partner you have can form your relationship as it feels right. But there needs to be balance, of time spent dating, texting, phone calls, of responsibilities, of money spent, etc.
So far, talks have been going well, good days and bad days, but we are making progress.
Good! I hope getting more info here and from reading helps.
I want to second the book recommendation for Opening Up. It can help smooth the transition from swinging and FWBs to polyamory.
