Possible Metamour and the complexity of it...

[walklikethunder]

Maybe I should introduce myself first as I just registered. I am women living in a long-term relationship with another women. We opened our relationship at the beginning of this year and have talked about this step for the last three years or so. So far it has been wonderful, painful, intense and ja everything in between.
I am writing to you because I do not have a poly community at home (yet), and I am in need of advice. I have read all the books, listened to all the podcasts and did everything I can (I think) to prepare myself for this journey (well, I like to prepared, no so fond of surprises here, really good at being in control of everything…). Of course, I am realistic, and I know, theory is only one thing. So, to dive into my situation right now. I am trying to keep this simple and short.
About a year and a half ago my wife (actually girlfriend but getting married as soon as we are allowed to in this country…) came home from a party at work (she spends a lot of time there, close group of coworkers, lots of partying and so on) and told me that a women at work tried to kiss her. Let us call this women Shila. She also told me that they flirted heavily and that she decided to go home at one point and Shila followed her outside and kissed her. She drove her away and came home. At this point in our relationship we were talking about poly and all this, but it was a time of "lets talk about everything and then decide when/ how/ what to do".
I was jealous, but more than that I felt ignored but this other woman. I felt like I was not being seen. I was at that party that night and had just left and Shila knows we are in a relationship and still she made that move (not to only blame her but I was damn angry and almost felt bullied by that women…). Also, what scared me a lot was the thought of my wife going to work every day and this other woman being there, potentially trying to make a move during lunchtime (…ja super realistic). Now in the time that has passed till now I have had a lot of jealous moments (while they were going out together and so on) and my wife always told me not to worry "there is nothing going on, we don’t have tension,…".
Jumping to the present. Two days ago, she told me she would like to meet Shila (out of work) and that she feels like there a chemistry. I felt pain in my chest, I felt like all this time I was right, and she just lied about the tension and chemistry and everything. In the rational part of my mind I know she did not lie to me. I have to admit (and I am not proud of that) that at the beginning of this year, when we decided to open up, I said that I could not handle a possible fling thing ding with Shila. So I vetoed her (also not knowing that my wife might be interested in her…). I did withdrawal form that veto a month ago knowing that having veto power could only do harm to our relationship.
What also needs to be said is that my wife as a really hard time expressing her needs. This has always been her "main topic" when it comes to personal development and stuff. So, I am actually pretty proud of her that she expressed her needs regarding Shila. On the other hand, I am super mad at this situation.
I wanted to be welcoming to a possible Metamour, I wanted to be happy for her, I wanted to feel exited for her. And now all I can feel is fear that I am not able to handle this possible situation. How can I endure the thought of her going to work every day and being around Shila all the time? How can I get past the thought of not really knowing her thoughts/ needs/ wishes? How can I get over the feeling of being unseen by Shila? How can I get over the feeling of being lied to?
In my good moments, when love is the emotion that guides me, I am okay with the thoughts, I am willing to see Shila with new eyes. But right now, I am scared that this is too much for me. Like hello why can't we start out "easier", meeting people that we don’t have history with, why does it need to be heavy and loaded with old emotions. I also want to acknowledge that I did compare myself with Shila a lot this last year (yeah, I know, super bad, nobody likes comparison, its shit I know…) and in my head she is this super evil party monster that is way cooler then I am (yeah, lovely, super unnecessary and stupid, I know...).
So here it is, my rant about the situation I / we are in right now. Maybe one of you lovely people has a thought or two about it. I do not know how to navigate into this, and I don’t want to implement rules like "no fu***** at work" as I don’t know what to do about broken rules. That seems not like the "right" way. I am starting to rant again….so thank you to everybody who read this far. Lots of love.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

First of all, I'm sure you've come across numerous things that state the differences between rules and boundaries in that rules are things you put on other people, boundaries are what you put on yourself. I don't fully agree with this simplification (see here for more detail) but that premise leads me to the next issue I'll raise. On this site, they're often referred to as "messy people", not sure who coined the term, but they're people who you'd rather your partners not date. Your mother, perhaps.

Personally, I think, if we use that boundaries vs rules example, putting your co-workers on a "messy person list" is a rule. Putting your partner's co-workers on a "messy person" list is also a rule. Maybe you might have a boundary which says that someone who would date the co-workers of people close to them aren't compatible with you or something. I don't know. But how "messy" a relationship with a co-worker might be depends on the job and specific place of work.

I think you might feel a sense of betrayal as this person was someone your partner developed feelings for and acted on (somewhat) before you officially agreed to open but had discussed the desire to explore. It's funny because a TV presenter in the country I live recently came out as a gay man after being in a heterosexual marriage with children for 25 years. He claims (and I have no reason to doubt) that he has never acted on his desires.

In a discussion with a neighbour, she stated that just merely acknowledging his attraction to men while in a monogamous marriage is unfaithful. From this, I deduced that she must feel betrayed if her partner acknowledges that other women are attractive. I also wondered, and this is what is relevant to you, how they are meant to control feeling that attraction. Could your partner not have flirted with Sheila given that she a) found her attractive and b) had discussed a desire to explore non-monogamy?

If we think of polyamorous as an orientation rather than merely a relationship structure, then perhaps she has an inherent tendency to act on attraction whereas a monogamous person lacks that ultimate desire that pushes you forward towards flirting and more.

Ultimately, there isn't any way to guarantee your partner will not leave you because the relationship with someone else grows to a point where they aren't mutually sustainable. The only way I've managed to sustain healthy long term relationships is by continued compatibility. Some of that is just chance that we evolved in a way that continues to complement each other.

 

[FallenAngelina]

I like to prepared, no so fond of surprises here, really good at being in control of everything…

Polyamory will shine a big, bright, unrelenting spotlight on control issues. Whether Shila ignores you or not, is cooler than you or not, is threatening or benign - all of that depends on the story that is going on in your head, she really doesn't have the power to be any of those things or not. It's all in how you see her. This is basic relationship stuff, but poly will illuminate it in a big way. Control issues are fear of loss and this poly situation is lighting that up for you. It's your fear of loss (that only you have the power to change) and I'd stake my life savings that this is an old fear for you. It's not really about Shila, but Shila's presence is indeed bringing your fear to the surface. Helpful to know because trying to maneuver your GF and Shila into places that are emotionally easier for you will only bring short lived relief to you. The long term ease will happen when you take the focus off of your adversary and put it on the question of why you're really good at being in control of everything.

Poly gives us the opportunity to see ourselves in a way that monogamy often does not require. Think of this as an opportunity to grow more than a relationship conundrum that needs to be managed and solved. You'll get way more out of seeing Shila as a mirror for your own betterment than you will from seeing her as a rival.

 

[17642990gk294]

This reminds me of the "refrigerator"-parabel, that someone has linked here recently: https://www.morethantwo.com/jealousypractice.html
Sheila is probably not the promlem, only the symptom, therefore I don't believe removing her from the situation will help you.
You need to adress your insecurity, fear of loss or fear of being replaced, otherwise you will run into this issue with any serious partner/metamour your partner seeks out.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

It might help to hit return a few times to break up text. More people might read it then.

What also needs to be said is that my wife as a really hard time expressing her needs. This has always been her "main topic" when it comes to personal development and stuff. So, I am actually pretty proud of her that she expressed her needs regarding Shila.

That's fine. Tell wife you are glad she's talking about it. At the same time, you have to talk about yours too.

About a year and a half ago my wife (actually girlfriend but getting married as soon as we are allowed to in this country…) came home from a party at work (she spends a lot of time there, close group of coworkers, lots of partying and so on) and told me that a women at work tried to kiss her. Let us call this women Shila. She also told me that they flirted heavily and that she decided to go home at one point and Shila followed her outside and kissed her. She drove her away and came home. At this point in our relationship we were talking about poly and all this, but it was a time of "lets talk about everything and then decide when/ how/ what to do".

It sounds like you are mad at Shila for hitting on your wife and kissing her before you and wife agreed to Open. Like you were talking about it, but had not actually agree to Open yet.

But right now, I am scared that this is too much for me. Like hello why can't we start out "easier", meeting people that we don’t have history with, why does it need to be heavy and loaded with old emotions.

I think you could talk to your wife about that. Tell her your fears and concerns.

Me? I would not want to get involved with work people. It would be on my list of "messy people." I would not want my partner dating my relatives or my coworkers. Even I don't want to date coworkers. Because I have to see them at work all day long and if things go badly, I am stuck working there with an ex. Has your GF thought that out?

Have you talked about who each of your "messy people" might be? Because there's enough people in the world to date without going right for the messy ones that could be a problem.

Galagirl

 

[vinsanity0]

What does a "meta seeing you" mean to you? It's reading like how dare Shila hit on my wife even though we are open.

People can't help who they are attracted to. And not everyone has time to meet total strangers and develop relationships. It's common for people to look to people with whom they are acquainted in times like this. Opening up is scary. This makes it easier.

When my wife and I opened our marriage after a long bout of monogamy I attempted to make similar rules. Eventually, I came to the realization that it was about control on my part. I had to step out of myself and look back at the relationship to understand that. Yes, rules were broken. I could have fixated on my wife's breaking of the rules. Instead I chose to look at the rules and determine if they were fair or realistic. It turned out they were neither.

 

[Magdlyn]

Maybe I should introduce myself first as I just registered. I am woman living in a long-term relationship with another woman.

Welcome, Thunder. Maybe you would pick out a nickname for "your wife," the way you did for Shila. That would help us understand and respond to your text.

We opened our relationship at the beginning of this year. We have talked about this step for the last three years or so. So far it has been wonderful, painful, intense and ja, everything in between.

I have read all the books, listened to all the podcasts and did everything I can (I think) to prepare myself for this journey. (Well, I like to be prepared, not so fond of surprises here. I'm really good at being in control of everything.) Of course, I am realistic, and I know, theory is only one thing.

There does need to be a certain willingness to "let go" and dive in, and see what happens. Just keep the lines of communication open! And both of you need to be honest with your own selves, and tell the truth, even if it hurts. But be respectful, use "I statements" and employ responsive active listening.

It's best to not have long marathon talks. Break up serious talks with fun activities and dates. Rest, eat, exercise and sleep, so you're prepared for the work.

About a year and a half ago my wife (actually girlfriend) came home from a party at work. She spends a lot of time there. It's a close group of coworkers, lots of partying and so on. She told me that a women at work tried to kiss her. Let's call this women Shila.

She also told me that they flirted heavily. She decided to go home at one point, and Shila followed her outside and kissed her. She drove Shila away and came home.

At this point in our relationship we were talking about poly, but it was a time of, "Let's talk about everything and then decide when/how/what to do."

I was jealous, but more than that, I felt ignored by Shila. I felt like I was not being seen. I was at that party that night, and had just left. Shila knows we are in a relationship and still she made that move. Not to only blame her, but I was damn angry and almost felt bullied by that woman.

So Shila didn't know you and "Wife" were considering Opening your relationship? Maybe she was drunk. People do things when they're drunk.

Also, what scared me a lot was the thought of my wife going to work every day and this other woman being there, potentially trying to make a move during lunchtime (ja, super realistic). Now in the time that has passed till now I have had a lot of jealous moments and my wife always told me not to worry: "There is nothing going on, we don’t have tension."

But two days ago, she told me she would like to meet Shila (out of work) and that she feels like there a chemistry. I felt pain in my chest. I felt like all this time I was right, and she just lied about the tension and chemistry and everything.

In the rational part of my mind I know she did not lie to me. I have to admit (and I am not proud of that) that at the beginning of this year, when we decided to open up, I said that I could not handle a possible fling thing ding with Shila. So I vetoed her (also not knowing that my wife might be interested in her…).

I did withdraw from that veto a month ago, knowing that having veto power could only do harm to our relationship.

My wife has a really hard time expressing her needs. I am actually pretty proud of her, that she expressed her needs regarding Shila. On the other hand, I am super mad at this situation.

I wanted to be welcoming to a possible metamour. I wanted to be happy for "Wife." I wanted to feel exited for her. And now all I can feel is fear that I am not able to handle this possible situation.

How can I endure the thought of her going to work every day and being around Shila all the time? How can I get past the thought of not really knowing her thoughts/needs/wishes? How can I get over the feeling of being unseen by Shila? How can I get over the feeling of being lied to?

In my good moments, when love is the emotion that guides me, I am okay with the thoughts. I am willing to see Shila with new eyes. But right now, I am scared that this is too much for me. Like, hello, why can't we start out "easier," meeting people that we don’t have history with? Why does it need to be heavy and loaded with old emotions?

I do not know how to navigate into this, and I don’t want to implement rules like "no fucking people from work," as I don’t know what to do about broken rules. That seems not like the "right" way.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello walklikethunder,

It sounds like you are okay with your wife getting together with another woman (who would then become your metamour). More than that: You *want* to be okay with it. But you *can't* be okay with it when Shila is the other woman. In that sense, you could say that Shila is ruining open/poly for you. You see, you don't mind your wife seeing someone else ... You just need them to be someone you can *trust.* You can't trust Shila because she has done untrustworthy things in the past. She has done cheating things in the past. Cheating things with your wife. Shila has flirted with your wife, and kissed your wife, when your wife was still monogamous with you. Shila has acted as if you don't exist. This makes it hard for you to be a metamour to Shila. How can you be a metamour if you don't exist?

I think you could tell your wife that you hope she'll choose someone you can trust. Someone other than Shila. This is not vetoing Shila. It is just explaining to your wife that you cannot trust Shila, and why. Tell your wife that the premature flirting and kissing is the reason why. And that you feel that Shila does not give due respect to the fact that you exist in the relationship. These are the things that make Shila a messy person for you. You would prefer it if your wife would not choose a messy person to date. Dating a messy person is a bad way to start open/poly. It is not good to have all these complications right at the beginning. So, ask your wife to choose someone else. Someone with a clean slate. Someone you can trust. Someone other than Shila. This isn't vetoing Shila, it is just asking your wife to choose someone else.

I can post jealousy links if you think that would help. Let me know.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hello walklikethunder,

It sounds like you are okay with your wife getting together with another woman (who would then become your metamour). More than that: You *want* to be okay with it. But you *can't* be okay with it when Shila is the other woman. In that sense, you could say that Shila is ruining open/poly for you. You see, you don't mind your wife seeing someone else ... You just need them to be someone you can *trust.* You can't trust Shila because she has done untrustworthy things in the past. She has done cheating things in the past. Cheating things with your wife. Shila has flirted with your wife, and kissed your wife, when your wife was still monogamous with you. Shila has acted as if you don't exist. This makes it hard for you to be a metamour to Shila. How can you be a metamour if you don't exist?

I think you could tell your wife that you hope she'll choose someone you can trust. Someone other than Shila. This is not vetoing Shila. It is just explaining to your wife that you cannot trust Shila, and why. Tell your wife that the premature flirting and kissing is the reason why. And that you feel that Shila does not give due respect to the fact that you exist in the relationship. These are the things that make Shila a messy person for you. You would prefer it if your wife would not choose a messy person to date. Dating a messy person is a bad way to start open/poly. It is not good to have all these complications right at the beginning. So, ask your wife to choose someone else. Someone with a clean slate. Someone you can trust. Someone other than Shila. This isn't vetoing Shila, it is just asking your wife to choose someone else.

I can post jealousy links if you think that would help. Let me know.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

I disagree, Kevin. Shila isn't the problem. I think it's more about the Wife, and her lack of communication skills. This couple needs to negotiate and come to terms in their new contract of how to be Open.

 

[walklikethunder]

Thank you to everybody who took their time to give me their thoughts about this, for all the wonderful and diverse replies. Yesterday evening me and the wife (to give you a name for responding, let us call her Liv) read my Comment and all your responses together and talked about your insights. This was a good experience and we were able to communicate openly about it. Communication between us has always been mature and nonviolent.


Thank you SEASONEDpolyAgain for the reminder about rules vs. boundaries. I don’t know if I would put Liv´s Coworkers on a "messy persons" list per se. What I know is that I don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who does not value my other relationships or who does not "see them", think of them when making decisions.


Thank you FallenAngelina for your reminder about fears and to try to see Shila as a mirror for my betterment and not as a rival. That really hit home, and I have thought about this before. I know that Shila "stands for something" that has hurt me before and I do know that it is a process to heal from old wounds and fears. I know poly gives me an opportunity to shine an even brighter light on those deeply wired emotions.


Thank you Kindalosthere for the link to this parable. I have read it and I am still thinking about the statements Franklyn makes.


Thank you GalaGirl for your compassion and the advice.
Yes, I do am mad at Shila for doing so. I never hit on someone while knowing about a relationship they were in. It is something that does not fit into my values. I know other people think different of this and I do not want to be judgmental or make assumptions about them. Yesterday Liv told me that there were other occasions after this kiss thing, where Shila did compliment her and expressed that it is a pity that they can't make out because Liv is so clear about her decision not to get involved. From which I take two things. First my wife was communicating clearly that no affair was going to happen and second that Shila, repeatedly did not involve me in her actions. She did not once say "oh well yeah you are pretty hot but I don’t want to start an affair because you are together with Thunder (did not think about a Nickname for myself, so I am just going to use this now) and I don’t want to hurt your relationship".
That makes me feel like my feelings did not matter to her at all. She would have gladly started an affair without giving a sh** or two about me. As you can tell I am getting mad about this…


Thank you vinsanity0 for your reminder that rules and fairness rarely go hand in hand. I know that and I do not want to implement any of those.


Thank you Magdlyn for the heads up concerning a Name for my wife (I chose Liv). You said that people do thing when they are dunk. That is something I have a hard time to understand. It would not cross my mind to hit on someone who I know is in a (at that time) monogamous relationship. I have a hard time not to make assumptions about Shilas character and separate her actions from her core. I want to embrace my future Metamours, I want to get to know them and be welcoming about a new energy entering my relationship with Liv. I am scared that I can not get behind the fact of not trusting Shila or feeling like she does not care about me and my feelings. I know that she lives a life with different morals and values than I do, and I am not the one to throw a stone here, but I am scared that this could affect me even more in the future.


Thank you kdt26417. Your words did speak to me because I do indeed feel like I would not be able to trust her in the future. This is something that bothers me because the side in me who tries to be understanding and empathetic is telling me to give Shila a new chance, to give her an opportunity to talk about what happened and how that affected me. The other side in me feels hurt by her behavior and the repeated ignorance of my presence. It's like " How dare you make a move and ignore me. How dare you hug me goodbye and kiss my wife an hour later". I know where this comes from, I know I have topics about feeling ignored, feeling like my emotions don’t count, I see that and I have been working on those things a lot and I am more than willing to do much more self-development in the future.
I would really like to say to Liv "okay Shila is on my messy persons list because of the whole story and I want to ask you not to pursue something with her" and I know that by saying so I am going to hurt Liv or deny something that she wants to do. I do not want to do that. I don’t want to make this decision; it feels like it is not mine to make.



Trying to sum up my thoughts at this point:
I do not want to label Shila a "messy person" because it feels judgmental and condemning.
I do not want to deprive Liv from a need she expressed.
I do not want to ignore my own emotions.
I do want to heal my hurt self and give Shila the opportunity to show herself in a different light.
I do want to be able to trust possible Metamours.
I do not know how to build that trust concerning Shila.
I do not want to massively overwhelm myself and my relationship with Liv at this unexperienced point in our Opening process.


Thank you again. Lots of love. Thunder.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I think it might help if you avoid thinking of potential metamours' as people who owe you something. It isn't their job to manage the boundaries of your relationship. It's your partner's. And for all intents and purposes, it sounds like she did that.

It kind of feels like you think they should be grateful you've allowed your partner to see them and so they should show reverence to your relationship.

Instead of seeing some positive in the fact that Shila seemingly reads your wife's communication correctly, you'd wish she'd openly acknowledge that Liv is your property and she nearly touched her without your permission.

"I'm sorry Ma'am for trespassing on your land, I shall hurry back over to the public footpath".

 

[GalaGirl]

To clarify, when I say "messy person" I am talking about "A messy situation if I dated this partner."

For instance, if I dated my boss? They are a nice person. But dating my BOSS? That makes a messy situation at work. And I'd rather not mess my work up like that.

There's other people to date in the world without going for the ones that create messy situations.

Apart from the fact that you do not like her... Shila is your wife's coworker. Has your wife thought about that all the way through?

Yes, I do am mad at Shila for doing so. I never hit on someone while knowing about a relationship they were in. It is something that does not fit into my values. I know other people think different of this and I do not want to be judgmental or make assumptions about them.

You already made a comparison -- that Shila doesn't share your values. And a judgement about her recent behavior. That you dislike that she hits on your wife, who at the time, was not in an Open relationship yet.

I think that's fair. You can dislike what you dislike.

Yesterday Liv told me that there were other occasions after this kiss thing, where Shila did compliment her and expressed that it is a pity that they can't make out because Liv is so clear about her decision not to get involved. From which I take two things. First my wife was communicating clearly that no affair was going to happen and second that Shila, repeatedly did not involve me in her actions. She did not once say "oh well yeah you are pretty hot but I don’t want to start an affair because you are together with Thunder (did not think about a Nickname for myself, so I am just going to use this now) and I don’t want to hurt your relationship".
That makes me feel like my feelings did not matter to her at all. She would have gladly started an affair without giving a sh** or two about me. As you can tell I am getting mad about this…

Well... are you mad at Liv? Have you asked her...

"Why would you want to date Shila? It's good that you told her to stop... but doesn't it occur to you that you had to keep ON telling her "no" because she didn't respect your limit the first time you told her to stop hitting on you? That's respectful behavior toward you?

When you know Shila pisses me off from hitting on you so much before we were even Open? Not even thinking of me or caring how her behavior could hurt others? That is respectful behavior toward your other relationships?

You can't date someone else that doesn't come with this baggage?"

What did Liv say to this when she read this in your post?

In my good moments, when love is the emotion that guides me, I am okay with the thoughts, I am willing to see Shila with new eyes. But right now, I am scared that this is too much for me. Like hello why can't we start out "easier", meeting people that we don’t have history with, why does it need to be heavy and loaded with old emotions.

I think you and Liv could talk about that.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Thunder,

It sounds like you need to have a marathon talk with Shila. Like, you need to explain to her that she hurt you when she ignored your existence in the relationship with Liv. Also you should explain (to Shila) that you want to give her a second chance, and trust her in the future. This way Shila will understand that it's important not to ignore you. Then you will feel better about the situation, and can give Liv the go-ahead to be with Shila. Without ignoring your own feelings. That's what you want deep down inside, isn't it? You don't want to veto Shila, you just want to find a way to address your feelings about what Shila did. I think it is possible to resolve this situation, but in order to do so, you must have a marathon talk with Shila.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

It sounds like you need to have a marathon talk with Shila.

No one should ever have a marathon talk, Kevin. That causes exhaustion and emotional overwhelm or flooding.

Second, the problem here is NOT WITH SHILA! The problem is between Thunder and Liv. They are the ones looking to try poly for the first time.

For all we know, Liv was wanting to Open, and was giving Shila mixed messages, which caused Shila to think she had a chance! And guess what, it turns out she DID have a chance!!

Just because you, Kevin, practice kitchen table poly with your partner and metamour, and all even live together, does not mean others do not or should not practice parallel poly. One doesn't need to be friends with one's metamour(s). One need only be polite if one happens to cross their path.

The talks (multiple short ones, not marathons) here, need to be between the couple, Thunder and Liv. Liv is looking to be a hinge in a V. She is the one who needs to learn about handling 2 relationships at once.

I've never had a deep "marathon" talk with my partner's bf. Heavens, no. Pixi is a great hinge and works hard to make sure both her partners feel comfortable. And when I was dating, Pixi never needed to have deep talk with my partners.

I want to look at Liv and Thunder. If Liv is set on Shila, why not give it a chance? Liv just needs to be more clear about what her personal boundaries are, with both other women.

If Shila is really an overly forward rude selfish person, that will be evident soon enough. If Liv likes her and wants to try, she has every right to. If it doesn't work out, they can break up (and Thunder can have a nice inward "I told you so" moment).

But if Thunder has a history of being overlooked and "not seen" from her childhood, she is triggered now. She can look deeply at that and see how she is projecting those feelings onto Shila, an eager horny suitor for Liv's affections.

tldr; Liv isn't Thunder's property. Liv needs to learn to speak her truth, and be a good hinge.

 

[walklikethunder]

Hello everybody. First: thank you all for your answers, opinions and thoughts. Liv and I read them together, talked about it and then talked some more.

Two weeks have passed, and I did a lot of, well thinking and journaling. We had some intense but very understanding and intimate talks and Liv now understands more how I feel, and I understand more about how Liv feels and felt. It brought us to another level, and I did not think that was possible, of expressing our needs and thoughts and fears. I love how all this is giving us this growth.

Now, Liv talked to Shila about our opening and they are going to meet this Thursday. I am calm and a bit tense about it. I am happy for Liv and I can watch her getting nervous and joyous. It feels new and overwhelming at times, but it feels "right" and I sometimes catch myself smiling when I think about Liv being excited.

Liv and I agreed that, depending on how things go and what Shila thinks about it, I get the opportunity to have a conversation with Shila about what happened and how I feel/ felt. I am curious what this holds, and I hope the situation at Liv’s and Shila’s workplace goes well.

Have a wonderful day. Love. thunder.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm glad you've made some progress, but I am concerned you still want to talk to Shila about making moves on Liv, as if Liv is your property.

No wonder you're still a bit tense. If Liv really thinks it's necessary, she can ask Shila to talk to you. But Shila has every right to refuse. Her relationship is with Liv, not with you! She's not dating a couple, she's dating an individual, Liv.

You don't seem to get that it's Liv's role as a hinge to deal with Shila. You know Shila's behavior was triggering to you. That's your baggage to deal with, maybe with Liv's help, maybe with a therapist. It's not Shila's job to tell you she will treat your shared partner in a certain way.

I'd recommend Liv keep what she does with Shila separate from you, and vice versa. She might be telling both of you TMI. A poly person generally asks permission from a partner about what she can share with her other partner(s). Every dyad deserves its privacy.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Thunder,

It sounds like you have some good communication going on, between all three of you, and that is good to hear. Communication is arguably the most important part of poly, next to mutual consent of course. And while it's not required for metamours to be on friendly terms with each other, it's certainly a bonus when they can be. If you and Shila can get on the same page, that's all the better. Keep us posted here, and carry on!

Sincerely,
Kevin T.