Newbie Mistake - What Now?

S

SoManyThoughts

New member
My girlfriend (F40) and I (M61) have a very long history together. We recently re-shaped our relationship to address some long-term issues between us. This included moving to separate homes and "opening" our relationship.

In retrospect, I think our mistake was not communicating in-depth about what "open" meant. Based on our conversations, I envisioned this as a hotwife or stag/vixen arrangement, where she/we/I would identify partners and have sex with those partners once or maybe a few times. However, as she later told me, she always intended to be polyamorous - to have multiple relationships, including ours.

My GF is attractive and sex-positive, so she's had no shortage of partners since we opened up. While I'm very happy for her regarding the sex, I have found it very difficult to deal with the fast/hard emotional connections she has made with some of these partners. I also hate the burden of having to support her through the inevitable new relationship drama and when she gets hurt by the inevitable jerk.

As I said, we have a long and deep history. I don't want to take away the joy she gets from her encounters/relationships. But this isn't what I bargained for.
(Yes, I have expressed these feels and she was generally understanding. Her response was that I just need to trust that she isn't going to fall in love with any of these guys.)

But this isn't how I want to be with her.
Thoughts?
 
Change is hard. Emotions go hand-in-hand with sex. Despite her well-meaning assurances that she won't fall in love with other men, she well might. That is what the "amor" part of polyamory means, after all. Many "loves." Not, many friends with benefits, fuck buddies, one night stands.

I'd suggest you both read Opening Up. It's a great manual for doing what you're doing right now.
 
Magdlyn said:
Change is hard. Emotions go hand-in-hand with sex. Despite her well-meaning assurances that she won't fall in love with other men, she well might. That is what the "amor" part of polyamory means, after all. Many "loves." Not, many friends with benefits, fuck buddies, one night stands.

I'd suggest you both read Opening Up. It's a great manual for doing what you're doing right now.
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I hear you. I guess what I'm grappling with now is how to keep her in my life without being part of an emotional threesome or foursome. That's something, which, in a different context, I told her I did not want at the outset of our relationship years ago.
 
Thinks change. I fell in love with Ewe. My wife fell in love with her husband. He went south and my wife is now solo Poly with my support. I am still with Ewe with wife’s support. Talk can not be over stresses. Be open and honest. It may not go where you want it but honesty is a must.
 
SoManyThoughts said:
I hear you. I guess what I'm grappling with now is how to keep her in my life without being part of an emotional threesome or foursome. That's something, which, in a different context, I told her I did not want at the outset of our relationship years ago.
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It seems that what you want, and what she wants diverge. Right? You're at a crossroads. You don't say why you moved into separate abodes... but it seems some new kind of independence has recently developed for both of you. If you are sure you want to be in a relationship that is open only sexually, you are more of a swinger. But she doesn't want to be your "hotwife," the "vixen" to your "stag." She wants to be a whole person, and have sex and friendship (at least) with people as people, not as sex toys or machines.

If you want a hotwife or a swing partner, you might not find one in your current gf. Relationships do evolve as we mature. Opening Up goes into detail about the many forms that ethical non-monogamy can take.

You don't have to be part of an "emotional threesome or foursome." You can be the leg of a V, where GF is the hinge in the middle. You don't need to meet or befriend her other partners. GF just needs to learn how to be a good hinge.

She shouldn't expect you to constantly shore her up when she has dating problems, btw. She can keep her time with you focused on you. She can deal with her issues with other dating partners by talking to other friends or a therapist, and by journaling. If you don't want to hear about it, you can just simply tell her that, and walk away if she persists.

I'm glad you came here so YOU have someone (many someones) to vent to!
 
Magdlyn said:
It seems that what you want, and what she wants diverge. Right? You're at a crossroads. You don't say why you moved into separate abodes... but it seems some new kind of independence has recently developed for both of you. If you are sure you want to be in a relationship that is open only sexually, you are more of a swinger. But she doesn't want to be your "hotwife," the "vixen" to your "stag." She wants to be a whole person, and have sex and friendship (at least) with people as people, not as sex toys or machines.

If you want a hotwife or a swing partner, you might not find one in your current gf. Relationships do evolve as we mature. Opening Up goes into detail about the many forms that ethical non-monogamy can take.

You don't have to be part of an "emotional threesome or foursome." You can be the leg of a V, where GF is the hinge in the middle. You don't need to meet or befriend her other partners. GF just needs to learn how to be a good hinge.

She shouldn't expect you to constantly shore her up when she has dating problems, btw. She can keep her time with you focused on you. She can deal with her issues with other dating partners by talking to other friends or a therapist, and by journaling. If you don't want to hear about it, you can just simply tell her that, and walk away if she persists.

I'm glad you came here so YOU have someone (many someones) to vent to!
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Thank you.
Please understand that there was no coercion or male fantasy here. The scenarios I laid out (hotwife, et cetera) were simply the ones that I thought we both envisioned. Had we communicated better and I had understood that she intended to have two or three fully-realized relationships, I would not have agreed to that.

It's also tough because her NRE is super intense. She recently spent hours for example planning an expensive birthday outing for a guy she had known for two weeks. A guy who, by the way, has not spent a dime or a minute expressing her value to him. In these NRE periods, I feel taken for granted. During one of our recent date nights, for example, she impulsively invited one of her new partners to come over. I politely excused myself and she later apologized, but COME ON!

I guess what it comes down to is, maybe I'm not right for this lifestyle. If so, is there any way to keep her in my life?
 
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Hello SoManyThoughts,

You need to tell your girlfriend that this is not what you signed up for when you agreed to "open." Tell her that she must stop having relationships with these other men, and that she especially must stop having NRE with them. Yes, you made a mistake in not communicating this to her in the first place, but now, it's a matter of better late than never. Apologize for not telling her in the first place that you could handle open but not polyamory, but then follow up that apology with a firm statement that you are not willing to do polyamory with her now. You are willing to do hotwife or stag/vixen with her. Tell her that. In no uncertain terms. You did not communicate clearly before. Communicate clearly now. And tell her that you hate the burden of having to support her through the inevitable new relationship drama and when she gets hurt by the inevitable jerk.

You are not her therapist. You are her boyfriend. Yes, she has her wants, but you also have your needs. Be gentle but firm with her. Tell her what you are willing to do, and don't let her go beyond that boundary. It sounds to me like she is getting all caught up in the idea of polyamory, and yeah she thinks she (and you) can be sure that she will never fall in love with any of these guys, but I think she will fall in love with one or more of them eventually, it is not a question of if, just when. Be fair to her, but insist that she be fair to you. You do not want to break up with her, but you also don't want to be with her under these unfair conditions. Tell her this. Don't let her push you around. She is your girlfriend, not your slavemaster. You get a fair say in what she does. I don't mean to be harsh, but I am concerned that you are not getting your needs met here.

Just my 2¢,
Kevin T.
 
While I'm very happy for her regarding the sex, I have found it very difficult to deal with the fast/hard emotional connections she has made with some of these partners.
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Could ask her not to tell you so much detail. Just keep it to basic sex hygiene things you NEED to know to give full consent and not TMI you.

I also hate the burden of having to support her through the inevitable new relationship drama and when she gets hurt by the inevitable jerk.
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Could not pick that bag up. Could politely decline. "I'm sorry you hurt. I'm not the right person to process this with though. I suggest you talk to your friends."

If she's picking out jerks to date and gets hurt? That's her behavior choices. You don't have to do anything about it. Presumable after a while she will learn from experience to exercise better judgement.


As I said, we have a long and deep history. I don't want to take away the joy she gets from her encounters/relationships. But this isn't what I bargained for.
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Fair enough. Don't do the stuff you don't want to be doing.

It's also tough because her NRE is super intense. She recently spent hours for example planning an expensive birthday outing for a guy she had known for two weeks. A guy who, by the way, has not spent a dime or a minute expressing her value to him. In these NRE periods, I feel taken for granted. During one of our recent date nights, for example, she impulsively invited one of her new partners to come over. I politely excused myself and she later apologized, but COME ON!
Click to expand...

It sounds like if you are going to be here in this new model, you want it to be more of a "separate V" thing. Is that about right? If so, you have to tell her you prefer better personal boundaries and prefer more of a separate V model.

You could clarify your expectations to her that you prefer she keep her stuff with other people over THERE on that side of the V and don't be bringing it over here on this side of the V.

You could state you expect her to be PRESENT when it's your date night, and not all distracted. Otherwise just don't make the date with you. Schedule it for a time she CAN be present.

You can wish her well over there dating whoever, but you don't want to be doing excess emotional labor with her/for her just because she chooses to date more people and is riding some NRE roller coaster.

YOU aren't the one dating these people. Why do you have to be doing extra work? Her emotional management is her responsibility.

Galagirl
 
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SoManyThoughts said:
But this isn't how I want to be with her.
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Man, life changes on us sometimes and it is just a tough pill to swallow. Even if you guys *had* been completely clear on your expectations and what your next steps would be, this turn could have happened anyway.

Her response was that I just need to trust that she isn't going to fall in love with any of these guys
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Think back to all of the times you've fallen head over heals crazy in love with someone - did you feel a great deal of choice in the matter? All evidence points to the contrary. I get that she is just trying to be reassuring, and quite possibly believes this in all earnestness, but in my opinion this kind of promise is wishful fantasy.

kdt26417​

Tell her that she must stop having relationships with these other men, and that she especially must stop having NRE with them
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This is a pretty traditional school of thought which puts the priority on preserving the relationship over the happiness of the people in it. That is certainly one way to go, and you will likely find quite a bit of energetic support of the idea. It can work I suppose, but it requires that everyone involved in the association holds these same priorities. Anyone who does not value preserving "the relationship" over their own flourishing will likely have some struggle with accepting this one. It's a tough bargain, prompting our fellows to change what works for them, so that they are instead doing something that works for you.

I hope that you instead put your energy into trying to discover if this new relationship you now have, can afford you some joy. Instead of trying to push the relationship back into its original state, or pushing it into some other state that currently only exists in your imagination, take a look at what you actually have in front of you. If you didn't already have a restriction on the way your relationship "should" be shaped, what would your honest assessment of this current shape be? Would it be something that could be good for you? Or is it something that can only bring you misery?

Knowing the answer to that question may fill in some of the "what do I do now?" gaps.
 
GalaGirl said:
Could ask her not to tell you so much detail. Just keep it to basic sex hygiene things you NEED to know to give full consent and not TMI you.



Could not pick that bag up. Could politely decline. "I'm sorry you hurt. I'm not the right person to process this with though. I suggest you talk to your friends."

If she's picking out jerks to date and gets hurt? That's her behavior choices. You don't have to do anything about it. Presumable after a while she will learn from experience to exercise better judgement.




Fair enough. Don't do the stuff you don't want to be doing.



It sounds like if you are going to be here in this new model, you want it to be more of a "separate V" thing. Is that about right? If so, you have to tell her you prefer better personal boundaries and prefer more of a separate V model.

You could clarify your expectations to her that you prefer she keep her stuff with other people over THERE on that side of the V and don't be bringing it over here on this side of the V.

You could state you expect her to be PRESENT when it's your date night, and not all distracted. Otherwise just don't make the date with you. Schedule it for a time she CAN be present.

You can wish her well over there dating whoever, but you don't want to be doing excess emotional labor with her/for her just because she chooses to date more people and is riding some NRE roller coaster.

YOU aren't the one dating these people. Why do you have to be doing extra work? Her emotional management is her responsibility.

Galagirl
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Thanks to all of you for so much great insight.
My current inclination is to tell her that this arrangement - which arose without near enough pre-launch communication - simply doesn't work for me. Because I don't want to be controlling or deny her the benefits she clearly derives from the arrangement, I'm going to suggest that she and I step back and be just friends for now. I will add that if/when she tires of her new lifestyle and wants to revisit things, I'm open to that discussion.
Thoughts?
 
My current inclination is to tell her that this arrangement - which arose without near enough pre-launch communication - simply doesn't work for me. Because I don't want to be controlling or deny her the benefits she clearly derives from the arrangement, I'm going to suggest that she and I step back and be just friends for now. I will add that if/when she tires of her new lifestyle and wants to revisit things, I'm open to that discussion.
Thoughts?
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If that's where you want to be at this time? Fair enough. Tell her that and dial it back some. Especially since there wasn't enough pre-launch communication. You are both adults. Each one is responsible for their own choices and their own well-being.

Sometimes a relationship that is "good exes and friends" shape is easier to do than ____ romantic shape. Especially if whatever fills in that blank is a model that is just not working for you, is bending people into pretzles, etc. There's no point in forcing things.

Galagirl
 
SoManyThoughts said:
My current inclination is to tell her that this arrangement - which arose without near enough pre-launch communication - simply doesn't work for me. Because I don't want to be controlling or deny her the benefits she clearly derives from the arrangement, I'm going to suggest that she and I step back and be just friends for now. I will add that if/when she tires of her new lifestyle and wants to revisit things, I'm open to that discussion.
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So long as this decision is related to your trying to nurture the parts of the relationship that can exist, and preserve the human dignity of everyone involved (yourself included), then I'd say that would be a sound direction.
 
FallenAngelina said:
Sounds like you're just not into polyamory. Good to know, right?
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Maybe not. Certainly not the way it has played out this go-round.
In fact, we decided last night to hit pause on the openness.
She had yet another less-than-optimal date over the weekend, which has left her feeling the work isn't worth the reward.
The date was also problematic for me as it was a lavish expensive celebration of her date's birthday - a guy she had known two weeks.
That triggered the disconnect of whether our outside partners are supposed to be playmates or additional BFs/GFs.

We agree that our future is monogamish, and that next time we need to talk a lot more before anyone starts swiping.
 
SoManyThoughts said:
Thank you.
Please understand that there was no coercion or male fantasy here. The scenarios I laid out (hotwife, et cetera) were simply the ones that I thought we both envisioned. Had we communicated better and I had understood that she intended to have two or three fully-realized relationships, I would not have agreed to that.

It's also tough because her NRE is super intense. She recently spent hours for example planning an expensive birthday outing for a guy she had known for two weeks. A guy who, by the way, has not spent a dime or a minute expressing her value to him. In these NRE periods, I feel taken for granted. During one of our recent date nights, for example, she impulsively invited one of her new partners to come over. I politely excused myself and she later apologized, but COME ON!

I guess what it comes down to is, maybe I'm not right for this lifestyle. If so, is there any way to keep her in my life?
Click to expand...
I haven't read the other replies, but I wanted to comment on this. Inviting others along on dates with you, or planning expensive birthday treats for strangers is not NRE. Those things are newbie mistakes. You get a say in whom is invited on dates between you and her. I think one-on-one time is very important. If you want to do some kind of threesome date, sexual or otherwise, that should be pre-planned. You get a say. If you don't want to do this, just say so. Or, as you did, leave. Hopefully she learned a lesson there.

Planning to spend lots of money on a brand new dating potential partner is just... well, let's say unwise. I, personally, would not want a new dating partner to be spending lots of money on me right off the bat. It would feel like he was trying to buy me. But, it's her right to do that. She doesn't need to tell you she's doing that. Again, you can ask her not to tell you about what she does with other (new) partners. It's not your business, and it makes you uncomfortable.

This actions of hers do not mean that "polyamory is not right" for you. These actions are about her, not you. A degree of space and independence might help. You get to set boundaries. You can't tell her what to do, but you can make requests. You can tell her about things you dislike and what you will do if she continues to do them (see her less, leave the room or building, break up, etc).
 
kdt26417 said:
You need to tell your girlfriend that this is not what you signed up for when you agreed to "open." Tell her that she must stop having relationships with these other men, and that she especially must stop having NRE with them.
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I don't agree with this advice. First of all, no one "needs" to do anything. They can make choices, think things over, talk respectfully, but no one gets to tell anyone what to do. That would be disrespectful. I don't think there was any agreement about veto power. And you can't just turn NRE off lol. (Not that I think these behaviors are NRE per se, as I said above.)
kdt26417 said:
Yes, you made a mistake in not communicating this to her in the first place, but now, it's a matter of better late than never. Apologize for not telling her in the first place that you could handle open but not polyamory, but then follow up that apology with a firm statement that you are not willing to do polyamory with her now. You are willing to do hotwife or stag/vixen with her. Tell her that. In no uncertain terms.
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Are we sure that polyamory couldn't work if better communication and boundaries were established?
kdt26417 said:
You did not communicate clearly before. Communicate clearly now. And tell her that you hate the burden of having to support her through the inevitable new relationship drama and when she gets hurt by the inevitable jerk.
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Does he hate it or is he just uncomfortable?
kdt26417 said:
You are not her therapist. You are her boyfriend. Yes, she has her wants, but you also have your needs. Be gentle but firm with her. Tell her what you are willing to do, and don't let her go beyond that boundary. It sounds to me like she is getting all caught up in the idea of polyamory, and yeah she thinks she (and you) can be sure that she will never fall in love with any of these guys, but I think she will fall in love with one or more of them eventually, it is not a question of if, just when. Be fair to her, but insist that she be fair to you. You do not want to break up with her, but you also don't want to be with her under these unfair conditions. Tell her this. Don't let her push you around. She is your girlfriend, not your slavemaster. You get a fair say in what she does. I don't mean to be harsh, but I am concerned that you are not getting your needs met here.
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You do sound a bit fired up, for some reason!
 
Hey Gang -
Because you were all so helpful with this issue, I wanted you to know the final resolution.
My GF and I have broken up.
We had a crazy weekend that showed me that she wants essentially unfettered freedom to follow her sexual bliss and pursue multiple boyfriend-like relationships.
I'm happy for her, truly. That's just not what I signed up for when we opened our relationship.
I slept like a baby the night we broke up.

Again, thanks for your insight during this short but wild tour of the lifestyle.
 
While I'm sorry to hear about the break up (because what break up is FUN?), I am glad that you slept well after arriving at the decision to part ways. Sounds like it was the best choice for both of you.

Galagirl
 
I'm inclined to agree -- You made the best move given the circumstances.
 
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