Seeking Insight on Messy Breakup

michorofurt

michorofurt

New member
Hi all,

I've been going through a really tough time with a break up, and it's been hard to find anyone that could relate on other parts of the web. I'd really like to hear some thoughts, especially more challenging ones, as this whole situation has been hard to digest. This story is fairly long, and I've already booked a therapy appointment to further work through this, so if you're willing to, I'd appreciate your perspective. All names used are fake.

Prologue

My partner Laura and I have been together for nearly 5 years, and had been searching for a little over one year for a third to join us for friendship and fun in the bedroom. I'd like to obligatorily mention that Laura and I both suffer from some forms of mental illness, Laura can get really bad anxiety and depression, whereas I just struggle with anxiety. Our reasons for pursuing this is Laura being bisexual and wanting to confirm her sexuality, while I've only had sex with Laura, and wanted to experience being with another partner. We had been struggling to find someone that we really connected with, until we met Doris. She was one of the most relatable and lovely women I've ever met, and the three of us developed a really intimate bond over the past 3 months.

After having spent time together over the course of a few weeks, our new partner, Doris had expressed that they'd be taking a break from looking elsewhere for the time being; telling us she'd like to be exclusive with us. Laura and I were ecstatic, as we really grew to care deeply for Doris and thought that despite the newness of the situation, we were willing to give it a shot. One of the foundations we agreed to have this relationship upon was open communication. The next month was fantastic, we'd have days where Laura and I would spend time together with Doris, and we'd also get our own personal time with Doris sprinkled in throughout each week. It's important to note that Doris and I have similar normal working schedules, while Laura works in the afternoon until late at night.

Early Signs

There were early signs that Doris had some quirks to work through with Laura, but they never seemed like anything major. Doris had gotten frustrated with Laura over her pushiness in some situations, where Laura had perceived herself as bantering. She immediately apologized and started to put effort into not being as pushy.

As time went on, Laura and I were falling harder and harder for Doris. We invited her over for Christmas, and began to have her over every weekend. While we sacrificed seeing friends and having personal time, Laura and I felt like it was worth it to nourish this new relationship that was so special to us.

First Incident

Laura and I have separate bedrooms in the apartment, mostly because we'd like to have our own personal space. When we started dating Doris, she liked the way my mattress felt better than Laura's, and would spend nights sleeping in the same bed as me. We had previously talked about fooling around in the middle of the night, as there was a specific fantasy I had thought would be great to try. One night the both of us got up for about half an hour, tried it, and went back to bed. I casually tell Laura the next day about this happening, and she was really upset and taken aback. Doris and I had assumed that since we were allowed to have play together without Laura there, that it'd be fine to do something in the middle of the night together. That didn't end up being the case, and Laura felt really hurt and betrayed by us. We had a meeting regarding this, and both Doris and I were apologetic about the situation and we all moved forward with a clearer idea of not trying anything new without better communication beforehand.
 

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Second Incident

The second incident occurred 2 weeks ago, and was the one I felt was the worst. Laura was going to be spending the night at her sisters house, so I thought it'd be nice to have Doris over to keep me company for the night. Doris was under the assumption she could sleep over for the night, which I needed to communicate and check in with Laura about, who was working late. Laura seemed fine with it, but she had a few boundaries-- one of which being she didn't want us to have sex in the morning before she got home from her sisters; I suggested she talks about her boundaries before leaving our home for the night. Laura then finds out that instead of ubering to her sister's, her sister could come pick her up from our place; which we're fine with. Laura then comes home and says her sister wants to come inside for a bit(with Laura's cousin there too), and asks Doris to move all of her sleepover bags from our living room into my room to hide that we're in a polyamorous relationship. This was done because Laura's cousin had no idea about our Poly relationship, and we, albeit stupidly, wanted to hide it from her. Laura's sister and cousin then came inside, and said hi to Doris; this was the extent of their communication for the night despite being in the same room together. Laura's two family members continue to spend 30 - 40 minutes sitting around and talking; I kept trying to get them to leave so as to not intrude on our time. They finally leave, and as Laura is leaving, she briefly says "I'm cool with you sleeping over, just don't have sex in the morning", or something along those lines. Laura leaves, and it's just me and Doris left to enjoy the night. Doris says "I'm pissed.", so naturally, I ask what's going on. She tells me she feels really hurt and mad that she was forced into a situation where she couldn't be herself around Laura's family and that she didn't even feel comfortable being anywhere near us; since she was just referred to as a "friend". Doris is also upset that it feels like Laura doesn't trust us after the first incident. This hurts to hear, and we talk a little while longer. She says that while she would typically go home after something like this, since it's late, she'd like to still spend the night at my place. So for the rest of the night(starting around 9PM), I was just shunned and ignored by her, and while we're usually very physically intimate, we spent the night in opposite corners of the bed. I let Laura know what's happening VIA text, and her night was pretty much ruined too.

Laura comes home in the morning and hits Doris with a sea of apologies. After talking for a bit, it seems like we worked through things, but Doris is still seemingly kind of upset about the whole thing. We all start to head out for breakfast, and I ask Doris if we're still planning on meeting some of her friends that day, to which she says no. However, in the middle of breakfast she finds out that one of her friends is coming to eat there, and asks if we still want to hang out with them. Laura was truthful, and said that because she didn't sleep well and didn't do her makeup, she wouldn't feel comfortable meeting those friends. Doris seems to get a little upset by this, but it didn't seem like the end of the world. She asks if she can hang out with her friends for a bit then come back to our place later, and we were both completely cool and supportive of that. Doris comes back a little later, while Laura is taking a nap. She voices to me that it was a little upsetting we couldn't suck it up and meet her friends, and that we could still go out and get dinner tonight together, but she'd like to go home afterwards. This hurt to hear, but I understood it's normal for her to need some space. I wake up Laura a little later and tell her that Doris was going to go home after dinner, and that makes her feel horrible. Laura gets herself into a depressed headspace over the course of us getting to the dinner place. Once we get there, we put our names down for the waitlist, and go check out the Petco near by. Laura distances herself from us, and I find her in an aisle by herself with her mental health spiraling. I reproach Doris and tell her that I don't think it's a good idea for us to eat dinner while Laura is in this headspace. We approach Laura with the news, and she gets even more upset that we're no longer going to dinner, and said that she could've just worked through her feelings and we shouldn't make decisions for her. She then continues to call herself some really bad names in front of us and kept saying "I ruin everything", Doris , who was pretty taken aback, and the 2 of us part ways for the night.

The next morning Doris says she wants to have a conversation with just me. We met up at a park in the afternoon, and talked about the whole situation. Doris voices to me that she has frequently felt like she's "walking on eggshells" around Laura, and that she's not sure if Laura is ready to be in this kind of partnership, but that's not for us to decide. Another talking point is how she felt that too much of the relationship revolved around Laura and her needs. She also said that sometimes she doesn't really like how Laura treats me. A majority of the conversation is spent talking about Laura, but Doris had some feedback for me as well. She said that she didn't like how I told Laura about how she was upset the other night, and how Laura came in with all of her apologies without having a conversation first. She asked me to keep our conversations separate from her. Doris also told me that I enabled a lot of Laura's behaviors, which I also understood. Lastly, she said that she will decide how to move forward later depending on her stress levels in the relationship. All of this being said, Doris said that she cared about us really deeply and wanted to work through things. I felt the same way, and we cuddled in the park and talked about how much we meant to one another. Doris made plans to meet with Laura later in the week, and asked me to not relay much of the conversation that I had with her. She intended on having her own separate conversation with Laura, which she wanted to tailor to and not risk triggering Laura's anxiety. Doris talks to Laura a few days later, and all is well again. She came by our house after the talk with Laura, and everything was as lovely as ever. I started to feel myself fall in love with her.

During the talk with Doris and I, and apparently between Laura and Doris, she said she would end things by sitting the both of us down together and trying to part amicably; which gave me a lot of reassurance.
 
Third Incident

A week later, we got into a small but seemingly not groundbreaking situation. Laura and I had seen her grandmother with a few other family members, and Doris didn't feel comfortable seeing Laura on their day together Monday due to COVID results. This makes Laura a little upset, as they wouldn't be able to spend the kind of intimate time that Doris and I usually do. Fast-forward to Wednesday, we both see Doris for a bit, Doris invites me to hang out on Thursday(which I declined), then I spend a few hours hanging out with her after work on Friday.

The last incident occurs that Saturday. Doris comes over and intends on spending the whole weekend with us, and even took Monday off of work to spending personal time with Laura. We all have a great time in the morning, but Doris is seemingly upset over a conversation she's having with her mom. Laura goes to shower before work, and Doris lays down and wants to "nap", so as to work through her emotions. Laura comes back from the shower and asks what we're doing, to which we respond "napping", Laura says "just napping?", to which we say "yes". Laura steps out to get ready for work, then comes back and tosses my glasses onto my nightstand and says "I hope you guys enjoy your day" in a passive-aggressive tone of voice. Immediately after saying that, Laura explains her feelings of how she's upset she hasn't had the opportunity to spend much time with us, and that it hurts that we wouldn't spend the last few minutes before she goes to work with her. She had voiced her feelings of jealousy recently, but I was hoping the spa day they had planned would be enough to not warrant this outburst. We all briefly talk through it, and everything seems okay. Laura leaves for work, and Doris and I seem good to have a good rest of our day

We get lunch, and come back to my place, and something seems off. I ask Doris about it, and she was really taken aback by how Laura acted and my lack of discomfort with it. Initially, Doris seemed okay, but as she talked more and more about the situation, it seemed like she was getting increasingly frustrated. She began crying, and said "how could she do that to me after she knew what I was going through with my mom?". She had also said that she felt stupid for knowing this was going to happen again, as she's dated partners like this in the past. From this point on, she was saying "I don't know what I'm going to do." The next 7 hours we spent crying, kissing, and laying around in bed, just waiting for Laura to come home to have what would probably be our final conversation. Laura would message us throughout the night, but Doris didn't want me to give Laura the idea that anything was off so as to not ruin her day at work. Laura came home, and we started to talk. Doris said "I don't know if I could do this anymore", proceeding with mentioning what happened. Laura went on to say that if she doesn't feel the same way about us, she could see herself out the door; again, immediately apologizing after this. They talked, and while Laura was explaining her emotions and feelings of jealousy, Doris said she could have put more of an effort into planning one-on-one dates with her, as she was the only one putting that effort in. Doris also mentioned that it's no one's fault that Laura has the work schedule that she has. There was a lot of focus on the problems Doris felt Laura brought into the dynamic, and when Laura talked about her feelings, there wasn't much resolve. Doris had said that we were talking in circles, which to be fair, is feedback I've had with Laura when arguing.

The conversation essentially boiled down to Laura then saying that she can't promise she'll be able to change her behavior right away, and because of that, maybe we should all think about things for a bit. We all agreed, and Laura began to spiral again. Again, the words "I ruined everything" came out of her mouth as she was entering another depressive episode. Doris ended up leaving after unamusingly comforting Laura for a few minutes. As Laura was working through her feelings that night, I got a message from Doris saying "I'm so sorry you have to go through this, and I really miss you already. You're so special, and you deserve to know that. Leaving broke my heart." After asking how she's doing, she also said "It's hard thinking about my life with you. And, that was super messy before I left, but I knew something like that would happen." Laura didn't get any text message or anything along those lines from Doris. Everything felt terrible and we gave it a night.
 
The Block Text

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I got up in the morning and talked a bit with Laura, and she decided to send one final message to Doris. Laura apologized profusely and was incredibly vulnerable with Doris, saying she had lovely moments with her, how much she meant to her, and that she respects whatever decision Doris comes to. Doris responds with a block text, which was crushing to say the least. Doris says that Laura's anxiety has always been a fourth partner, and that we, as a couple, should never put anyone through this again. She also says that she can no longer use anymore of her emotional energy towards Laura. All of this was crushing, and while I respect Doris's decision, I felt as though this last text was a very cold and rough way of finishing things with us. It felt like everything we had done together throughout our relationship no longer mattered.

Doris then reached out to me and said she got us some thoughtful valentines gifts that she wanted us to have, and wanted just me to come by and get them. I told her I needed space for the time being, and that I could maybe get them after our winter storm blew over. I messaged her back a few days later saying I appreciate the gifts, but don't think I'm in a great space to accept them, as they wouldn't help me move on. I voiced wanting to talk to her one last time to get a few things off my chest. She messaged back saying she was glad I contacted her, and that she also wanted to meet and say a lot, but also that she wanted to try and retain contact with just me. This was really uncomfortable, and I told her that I wouldn't feel comfortable moving forward with Laura just watching us from the sidelines. She gets upset over text and says that Laura meant a lot to her, but couldn't fathom having another conversation with her, and that she made her feelings clear to her. She also said my conversation with her was an entirely different situation. So we decide to meet up individually the next day.

Final Talk

Doris and I met at the park to talk, and it didn't go well. She started off by saying that a lot of what happened in the relationship was really hurtful, and that she always felt like too much gravitated around Laura. She also mentioned that she felt like I enabled Laura's behavior, and never stood up for her(Doris) whenever she was wronged, unless she initially brought it up. Some of my points were how harsh the final message was, and how it's unfair that she expects me and her to move on with a friendship while my primary partner is left to suffer. She makes the point that in a polyamorous relationship, Laura and I are our own individual people, and should be treated as such rather than a unit. This is a little frustrating, considering we never really had a label for our partnership, however I didn't get the chance to bring that up. When I brought up how hurtful it was that she said we shouldn't do this again to anyone, she had stated that we should've thought through if we were fit to do this before the relationship got serious. On the same note though, she was the one to suggest the relationship could get a little more serious, and Laura and I decided to give it our best shot. There was no accountability or regret on her end from sending that final message to Laura. I brought up that she promised in the past we'd end things with the three of us sitting down together, and she said she never said that. When I asked what was the last straw in the relationship, she said it was my reaction to talking about the third incident. She said how casually I reacted and didn't seem too phased by Laura's behavior is what made her decide to make the hard decision of stepping away.

I told Doris that Laura and I learned a lot from the relationship, to which Doris said she felt "used" for us having taken away the few important lessons that we learned out of this. She suggested that Laura and I find therapy, and proceeded to give me the customized valentines gifts I had mentioned I didn't want. I began to break down crying in the park once she handed them over, and she left without saying another word. She sent this final message to Laura and I before blocking and deleting Laura off social media.

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Last Thoughts

This is one of the most difficult situations I've ever been through, and it's a lot, so I apologize for how big this thread is. I feel empathetic for my primary partner(Laura), but I also feel crushed for Doris and how she was hurt from our relationship. Seeing the pain in her eyes during our final conversation is haunting, and something that I think will stick with me for a while. I'd really like to make peace with her one day, as the connection I felt we had was something really precious, but the best move for now looks like giving her space and time to heal. Is it wrong or foolish for me to eventually want to try and reconcile, even if its to be platonic?

I'd really like some external thoughts on everything that transpired, as this is something that most of my friends do not have any experience with. Laura and I are very well aware of the mistakes we made, and I terrible for them. Laura knows she was the primary problems within the relationship, and feels like Doris did us wrong with how she ended things. It's been some of the hardest few days of my life, but we're trying to work through this. Please let me know if you want anymore detail, or have some feedback for me.
 
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Doris sounds like a mature person who knows her own boundaries and made the right decision to end things with the two of you. You and Laura are not ready to be in a triad relationship with anyone.

It is VERY difficult for a couple to date the same person together. Almost all of the time, the girlfriend develops a closer relationship with one of the spouses over the other and just clicks better with one member of the couple. (Just because it would be almost impossible for someone to like two people equally). Naturally, it is very painful for the other member of the couple to see the girlfriend developing a closer relationship with their spouse and not clicking so well with them.

If you and Laura want to be poly, you should try dating SEPARATELY. You find your own girlfriend. Laura finds her own girlfriend. That way, Laura can manage her own relationships and her own work schedule and find someone who really clicks with her.
 
MeeraReed said:
Doris sounds like a mature person who knows her own boundaries and made the right decision to end things with the two of you. You and Laura are not ready to be in a triad relationship with anyone.

It is VERY difficult for a couple to date the same person together. Almost all of the time, the girlfriend develops a closer relationship with one of the spouses over the other and just clicks better with one member of the couple. (Just because it would be almost impossible for someone to like two people equally). Naturally, it is very painful for the other member of the couple to see the girlfriend developing a closer relationship with their spouse and not clicking so well with them.

If you and Laura want to be poly, you should try dating SEPARATELY. You find your own girlfriend. Laura finds her own girlfriend. That way, Laura can manage her own relationships and her own work schedule and find someone who really clicks with her.
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Completely agree about us not being ready for a triad relationship and the inequality of this kind of dynamic. Thank you for your reply.
 
I'm sorry you struggle with the break up but glad you made yourself a counseling appointment.

FWIW? I could be wrong but to me it sounds like you went into it underprepared and without clear communication. Like yay, group sex, and then feelings, and then trying a poly triad without enough preparation or good agreements.

All 3 parties have a share in the situation making.

In the end? Doris isn't wrong. I mean this kindly, ok? My initial impressions are that you and Laura do sound like "coupleblob." Like you forgot how to be your own individual people and maybe are too enmeshed or entangled. Didn't do the work of detangling. And maybe you do enable Laura's behaviors because you too are used to "walking on eggshells" since you have been here with her for 5 years.

Maybe it took a new person to shine a light on certain things or hold up a mirror.

I'd like to obligatorily mention that Laura and I both suffer from some forms of mental illness, Laura can get really bad anxiety and depression, whereas I just struggle with anxiety
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What made you think opening the relationship would be awesome for anxiety? What did you do to mitigate anxiety in a new relationship model? And if this was supposed to be a casual hook up for group sex, why keep on seeing Doris?

After having spent time together over the course of a few weeks, our new partner, Doris had expressed that they'd be taking a break from looking elsewhere for the time being; telling us she'd like to be exclusive with us.
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Really? After only a few weeks?

We invited her over for Christmas, and began to have her over every weekend. While we sacrificed seeing friends and having personal time, Laura and I felt like it was worth it to nourish this new relationship that was so special to us.
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Sounds like Doris wasn't the only one caught up in NRE lalas.

How is this balanced living? And creating your separate support networks among friends and family? Oh, wait. Not actually "out" to anyone as open or poly. So can only talk to each other since you have no outside support. That's a good set up for implosion.

Laura has to be your hinge AND your meta AND your counselor support person?
Doris has to be your hinge AND your meta AND your counselor support person?
You have to be their hinge? And their meta? And their counselor support person?

Can you see how the strain can build up?

A triad is like 3 V's stacked up together. And even in a V there's all the mini relationships inside the bigger polyship. Something wrong on one layer? The ripple effect will be felt across the rest.

SOLOS

So you get enough time by yourself, and with other friends and family. Red because you all neglected solos.
  • You
  • Laura
  • Doris
    • She says that while she would typically go home after something like this, since it's late, she'd like to still spend the night at my place. For what? She would have done better catching and Uber. Not honoring her OWN needs.


DUOS

Not enough time spent in pairs.

  • You + Laura -- neglecting in favor the NRE.
  • You + Doris
    • some time together which is good. So green
    • But neither do you stick up for her when Laura behaves badly. So red
    • So for the rest of the night(starting around 9PM), I was just shunned and ignored by her, and while we're usually very physically intimate, we spent the night in opposite corners of the bed. I let Laura know what's happening VIA text, and her night was pretty much ruined too.
      • No other support person to call? Why did you go ruin Laura's night? You can't sit with discomfort on your own? See what I meant about "coupleblob?" Red.
      • You did not honor keeping (you+ Doris) business between you and Doris. So here came up and downy Laura raining apology on Doris from the sky. Red.
  • Laura + Doris -- rocky and walking on eggshells.
  • All -- some weak personal boundaries
TRIOS

  • Laura + (You + Doris as a couple) -- jealous, trying to monitor other people's sex. And neither you nor Doris tell Laura your sex life is not her business past safer sex practices. Just like in the other dyads it is their business.
  • Doris + (You + Laura) -- challenging you because she holds up a mirror to the fact you enable Laura sometimes. Tries to be kind but up front.
  • You + (Laura + Doris) -- You seem to struggle with letting that be their business. And seem to want Doris to make nice with Laura so Laura stops doing X. Not really Doris' job.
  • You + Laura + Doris.
    • Sometimes fun like group sex.
    • Sometimes ugh like the business with Laura bringing her relatives unannounced not respecting you + Doris couple time.
    • And neither did you or Doris go "Nice to meet you! We're going to the grocery" or whatever to get on with your date night and let Laura deal with HER guests.
    • So as much as she complains about you enabling Laura, Doris was doing it some too, though she was a guest in this house so it WAS weird space for her.
One of the foundations we agreed to have this relationship upon was open communication.
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And where was it then? Cuz a lot of you were holding stuff in rather than speaking up. Some amount of "storming" once the NRE wears off is normal but this sounds like more.

Some of my points were how harsh the final message was, and how it's unfair that she expects me and her to move on with a friendship while my primary partner is left to suffer.
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Coupleblob thinking?

I thought Doris was being fair. Breaking up but willing to be good exes and friends with you. And willing to be just exes with Laura. Not more emotional energy there. As statement of willingness is not Doris doing mean things TO Laura. It is Doris stating what she is and is not up for next.

Doris says that Laura's anxiety has always been a fourth partner, and that we, as a couple, should never put anyone through this again. She also says that she can no longer use anymore of her emotional energy towards Laura.
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Doris is exercising her own personal boundaries and not wanting to deal with Laura and her issues any more. I did not find her response anything but honest. I get it is hard to hear that kind of feedback. But she wasn't being mean in it. She was speaking her truth.

If Laura suffers? Because of the anxiety, mood swings, being pushy, inserting herself into stuff that are not her area of concern? Talking mean about her own self that she "ruins" everything? She doesn't see a doc or she sees them but doesn't do her patient mangagement plan and blows up at partners? You enable Laura? And Doris says she used to walk on eggshells around Laura and finally decided to speak up? Well... Don't shoot the messenger.

I'm no doctor. But I do wonder if you deal in Out of the Fog stuff here. The push-pull and the circular conversations.

I could be wrong but it just sounds like more than poly newbie stuff. Laura seems to struggle with emotional management. And it may be a case where she WANTS to poly, but actually, it's better if she doesn't so as to better manage her emotions/anxiety/stress/whatever other patient stuff she has going on. Like willing, but not ABLE at this time.

She makes the point that in a polyamorous relationship, Laura and I are our own individual people, and should be treated as such rather than a unit.
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I agree. Stop being "coupleblob." Be your own people. Who are SOMETIMES a couple in the (you + Laura) dyad.

This is a little frustrating, considering we never really had a label for our partnership, however I didn't get the chance to bring that up.
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In this one conversation or EVER? Cuz above I saw an agreement for open communication.

How can you uphold that agreement when you don't even know what model you were trying to practice together?

When I brought up how hurtful it was that she said we shouldn't do this again to anyone, she had stated that we should've thought through if we were fit to do this before the relationship got serious.
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I agree. Do not polyship again with new people underprepared like you were with Doris. Do some more preparation first. Assess your personal health and bandwidth.

You are basically hitting a lot of the pitfalls.


You could read some of the other docs too.

Practical Polyamory

Information on relationship skills, education and activism information related to the practice of polyamory; polyamory media resource.
practicalpolyamory.com

(cont)
 
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On the same note though, she was the one to suggest the relationship could get a little more serious, and Laura and I decided to give it our best shot. There was no accountability or regret on her end from sending that final message to Laura. I brought up that she promised in the past we'd end things with the three of us sitting down together, and she said she never said that. When I asked what was the last straw in the relationship, she said it was my reaction to talking about the third incident. She said how casually I reacted and didn't seem too phased by Laura's behavior is what made her decide to make the hard decision of stepping away.
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Well, if you are used to enabling or putting up with odd behavior? You become "blind" to it to some degree. It becomes "your normal." It takes a new person shining a light on it to point it out.

If it had been me and you scheduled to spend the day with Laura joining later? If Laura is being sex paranoid and being passive aggressive flinging your glasses around wanting attention? Expecting mind readering? Rather than ASKING "I feel left out. Please spend time with me before I go to work" or similar?

Knowing I had a tough time with my mom? When I took Monday off specifically to be with Laura? It's like why am I making space in my life for these people to be treated crap?

I told Doris that Laura and I learned a lot from the relationship, to which Doris said she felt "used" for us having taken away the few important lessons that we learned out of this. She suggested that Laura and I find therapy, and proceeded to give me the customized valentines gifts I had mentioned I didn't want. I began to break down crying in the park once she handed them over, and she left without saying another word. She sent this final message to Laura and I before blocking and deleting Laura off social media.
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Sounds like Doris did the best she could even while feeling used and like "collateral damage." And her last message about the bunnies was kind. You might not realize what a gift Doris gave you in giving you constructive feedback and the kindess.

It may have hurt to hear in the moment, but it sounds like it was honest. Some people would have just left without bothering to talk and explain to you.

I feel empathetic for my primary partner(Laura), but I also feel crushed for Doris and how she was hurt from our relationship. Seeing the pain in her eyes during our final conversation is haunting, and something that I think will stick with me for a while. I'd really like to make peace with her one day, as the connection I felt we had was something really precious, but the best move for now looks like giving her space and time to heal. Is it wrong or foolish for me to eventually want to try and reconcile, even if its to be platonic?
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Let time pass. It is MUCH too soon and for once, honor Doris' wants and needs. Give her the time and space and don't be pestering her trying to make nice just so YOU feel better and less haunted. Feeling haunted is the price tag you pay for now. In time the feeling will fade even if you never talk to her. So bear the burden for now.


Laura knows she was the primary problems within the relationship, and feels like Doris did us wrong with how she ended things.
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Really? What would Laura have wanted instead?

Doris said she had past relationship like this. I'm not sure if she means the abuse cycle. So she might NOT be up for that stuff if she finds it triggering. The explosion, then the rain of apologies. Then explosions again. Look at her final message about apology not being the point. She has to do what is right for DORIS and get away from this rain of stuff.

You and Laura do not expect people to take of their own selves?

How much is the new partner supposed to coddle or "poly train" the other two? Some things you figure out as you go along... but isn't some of the poly education your own responsibility to do? If Laura's conditions make it so she veers into explosions that alienate people? Verbal abuse? Whatever? You cannot blame other people for not wanting to be around that any more. How is that doing Laura wrong?

I wonder if you had anxiety before being with Laura. Or did it happen after being with Laura like situational anxiety?

I mean all that kindly. I think you all tried our best, but this just was not lining up. And you maybe didn't realize how much STRESS a poly relationship can be?

If you do try again? Prepare more. Do some reading and some soul searching if poly is actually a GOOD thing for both of your patient conditions like anxiety. Because as much stuff as there is in a 2 people relationship? More people means MORE stuff to deal with, MORE potential stress, MORE potential conflicts. There's the potential for more love too... but ALL the things whether good or bad is just MORE.

Some people don't want so much MORE or so INTENSE of relating. Or they don't want to be "processing things" all the time.

If you do try to practice poly again? Don't share the same partner. Date separate people. Have better personal boundaries.

A triad it 3 v's stacked up. It's one of the hardest models. Don't START there.

Galagirl
 
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Thank you for responding. It's heavy to hear but I agree with most of the points you made. A few notes:

In this one conversation or EVER? Cuz above I saw an agreement for open communication.

How can you uphold that agreement when you don't even know what model you were trying to practice together?
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Since the beginning of the relationship we asserted that we didn't really have a label for our dynamic. We didn't call it poly or a triad, we just went with the flow of how things were developing and left it at that. This makes me wonder if some of the typical practices seen within what's classified as a poly relationship should be applied to our situation. Laura and I were an established couple, and wanted to date Doris together. That being said, I do see how the 'coupleblob' mindset affects what we had going on.
GalaGirl said:
  • And neither did you or Doris go "Nice to meet you! We're going to the grocery" or whatever to get on with your date night and let Laura deal with HER guests.
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It was a date night at home type situation. While we could've gone out, it was fairly cold and we're somewhat isolated from much going on around here. Just putting this here to add a little more context.
 
PS We had previously talked about fooling around in the middle of the night, as there was a specific fantasy I had thought would be great to try. One night the both of us got up for about half an hour, tried it, and went back to bed. I casually tell Laura the next day about this happening, and she was really upset and taken aback. Doris and I had assumed that since we were allowed to have play together without Laura there, that it'd be fine to do something in the middle of the night together.
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I find it odd that everyone focused on LAURA feeling ok with whatever sex activity you and Doris did.

And Doris is not upset with you for telling Laura private (you + Doris) things?

And Lara is not upset with you for casually telling her private (you + Doris) things? Doris isn't a sex toy you decided to try out. She's a person.

Maybe you never thought about it since Doris is your 2nd lover ever. Who does the sex info belong to? If you and I shared sex? And then I go tell my spouse your body looks like ___ and you like doing _____ would you feel like I overstepped my bounds because I am telling someone about our private sex things when I did not obtain consent from you to tell? Because it's not only MY info, but yours too? It is OUR info?

Would you want me telling all my relatives how you are in bed?

Or would you like some privacy in the dyad?

Since the beginning of the relationship we asserted that we didn't really have a label for our dynamic. We didn't call it poly or a triad, we just went with the flow of how things were developing.
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One of the ways I deal with my own anxiety is by not doing "float along into things" or "fuzzy" stuff.

A lover? Is someone I share sex with.

A friend? Is someone I share friendship things with. I don't share sex with my friends. I do share bday hugs. A friend is not family kin.

A BF or GF? Is someone I share romance with. Maybe also sex with, but it implies a more long term thing than a one night casual lover hook up thing.

I think part of the stress here was lack of communication about what the expectations were, what kind of relationship this was trying to be, and NOT using labels. While they might not cover everything, labels do help.

And you see how being labeled "friend" when the relatives were over upset Doris!

I am also punctual with my time. I show up to appointments on time and I leave on time. I respect other people's time. I put things on a calendar so I know what is happening when. I do not like surprises from the sky. It makes me anxious.

Look how just "floating into stuff" happened here....

Laura then finds out that instead of ubering to her sister's, her sister could come pick her up from our place; which we're fine with. Laura then comes home and says her sister wants to come inside for a bit(with Laura's cousin there too), and asks Doris to move all of her sleepover bags from our living room into my room to hide that we're in a polyamorous relationship. This was done because Laura's cousin had no idea about our Poly relationship, and we, albeit stupidly, wanted to hide it from her. Laura's sister and cousin then came inside, and said hi to Doris; this was the extent of their communication for the night despite being in the same room together. Laura's two family members continue to spend 30 - 40 minutes sitting around and talking; I kept trying to get them to leave so as to not intrude on our time.
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Maybe next time? If the plan is for Laura to Uber? GO UBER THEN. Esp if you are not "out" to people. Or pack her overnight stuff and take it to work. Then have sister get her at Laura's work.

Don't be "fine with it" if Laura making last minute changes in the plan upsets your at home date.

Even if the sister got her at work and wanted to come in when Laura stopped at home for her bag? Laura (knowing you are not "out" to people as poly and that you and Doris have already started your at home date? Could have told sister "Nah, let me jsut grab my bag and let's get the sister party started at your place."

OR you could have gone to Doris' for the at home date and skip all this.

Too much "floating along" and not enough clear boundaries and expectations led to weird. You not honoring your time or Doris' time. Laura not respecting your time or Doris' time. Doris is a guest in this home and she doesn't know these people. It's not like she could have told the relatives to shoo.

Water under the bridge now with Doris. But even if you never poly again? You might think about better personal boundaries and clearer communication/expectations with Laura so your own anxiety management improves and you are more respectful of each other's time.

Galagirl
 
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Hello michorofurt,

I think it would be okay to salvage a platonic friendship from your romantic relationship with Doris. Some people say you should go no contact for 30-40 days, then try to salvage the friendship after that. It's up to you, do it if you think it would help. Make sure you and Doris -- and Laura -- are on the same page, whatever you decide to do.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
MeeraReed said:
Doris sounds like a mature person who knows her own boundaries and made the right decision to end things with the two of you. You and Laura are not ready to be in a triad relationship with anyone.

It is VERY difficult for a couple to date the same person together. Almost all of the time, the girlfriend develops a closer relationship with one of the spouses over the other and just clicks better with one member of the couple. (Just because it would be almost impossible for someone to like two people equally). Naturally, it is very painful for the other member of the couple to see the girlfriend developing a closer relationship with their spouse and not clicking so well with them.

If you and Laura want to be poly, you should try dating SEPARATELY. You find your own girlfriend. Laura finds her own girlfriend. That way, Laura can manage her own relationships and her own work schedule and find someone who really clicks with her.
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This really resonates with me. While I was an outsider to DAG, Bruiser and Fisticuff's relationships, I knew DAG was more partial to Bruiser than Fisticuffs, even though DAG met Fisticuffs first and met Bruiser through Fisticuffs (Bruiser and Fisticuffs are partners). Again, I don't know the details and never will (thank the gods), I thought the whole 'I'll date you both at the same time, but seperately' was destined for failure, as I think no one in that group was ready for that kind of dynamic. I know I could never date someone who is dating DAG at the same time. It's either date him, or me, or we are together as a triad.
 
Galagirl always goes deeply into things. Here's the short version.

Triads hardly ever work. At least twice a week on this board alone, we get newbie couples who are all gung ho on finding a unicorn. Or they have one (like you) and it's getting ugly. Or we get unicorns who are feeling like doggie chew toys, and feel like second class citizens, and are having their relationship with one member of a couple controlled by the other member, sometimes from both ends at once.

(And for everyone that posts here, I imagine 100 new people in messy triads are lurking, reading and learning from other's mistakes here. So, hi to all you folks!)

Our stupid patriarchal culture doesn't get that modern polyamory is a feminist concept. It's not about a committed MF couple finding that magical unicorn who will somehow satisfy the straight guy's craving for hot FMF sex, and the bisexual F's craving to explore her bi side. It's about individuals sharing love and/or sex with others, with the joyful consent of all, no matter the gender. It's about individual satisfaction.

I made the same mistake when I tried polyamory with my ex-husband in 1999-2000. I don't mean to rag on you personally. This is just the most common mistake being made in polyamory today.

One more thing I will add: if you and Laura go on to explore poly separately together-- maybe you find a potential gf, and she seeks a partner of her own, don't be surprised if she decides she wants to date other men, as well as women. That is her right. She's bi. Just because she has you does not mean she doesn't find other guys attractive also.
 
GalaGirl said:
I find it odd that everyone focused on LAURA feeling ok with whatever sex activity you and Doris did.

And Doris is not upset with you for telling Laura private (you + Doris) things?

And Lara is not upset with you for casually telling her private (you + Doris) things? Doris isn't a sex toy you decided to try out. She's a person.

Maybe you never thought about it since Doris is your 2nd lover ever. Who does the sex info belong to? If you and I shared sex? And then I go tell my spouse your body looks like ___ and you like doing _____ would you feel like I overstepped my bounds because I am telling someone about our private sex things when I did not obtain consent from you to tell? Because it's not only MY info, but yours too? It is OUR info?

Would you want me telling all my relatives how you are in bed?

Or would you like some privacy in the dyad?




One of the ways I deal with my own anxiety is by not doing "float along into things" or "fuzzy" stuff.

A lover? Is someone I share sex with.

A friend? Is someone I share friendship things with. I don't share sex with my friends. I do share bday hugs. A friend is not family kin.

A BF or GF? Is someone I share romance with. Maybe also sex with, but it implies a more long term thing than a one night casual lover hook up thing.

I think part of the stress here was lack of communication about what the expectations were, what kind of relationship this was trying to be, and NOT using labels. While they might not cover everything, labels do help.

And you see how being labeled "friend" when the relatives were over upset Doris!

I am also punctual with my time. I show up to appointments on time and I leave on time. I respect other people's time. I put things on a calendar so I know what is happening when. I do not like surprises from the sky. It makes me anxious.

Look how just "floating into stuff" happened here....



Maybe next time? If the plan is for Laura to Uber? GO UBER THEN. Esp if you are not "out" to people. Or pack her overnight stuff and take it to work. Then have sister get her at Laura's work.

Don't be "fine with it" if Laura making last minute changes in the plan upsets your at home date.

Even if the sister got her at work and wanted to come in when Laura stopped at home for her bag? Laura (knowing you are not "out" to people as poly and that you and Doris have already started your at home date? Could have told sister "Nah, let me jsut grab my bag and let's get the sister party started at your place."

OR you could have gone to Doris' for the at home date and skip all this.

Too much "floating along" and not enough clear boundaries and expectations led to weird. You not honoring your time or Doris' time. Laura not respecting your time or Doris' time. Doris is a guest in this home and she doesn't know these people. It's not like she could have told the relatives to shoo.

Water under the bridge now with Doris. But even if you never poly again? You might think about better personal boundaries and clearer communication/expectations with Laura so your own anxiety management improves and you are more respectful of each other's time.

Galagirl
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Can I steal...uh, borrow your definitions of lover, friend and BF/GF?

And a very, very strong seconding of the 'floating into stuff' or 'running like a freight train'. Never, ever again!
 
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