I just realized I took the red pill.

Polycurious_Adam

Polycurious_Adam

Active member
Three days ago, I was a codependent, possessive, monogamist. Today I know these things about myself. I didn't realize how strong my conditioning was. It seems that using religion and mass media to manipulate people's worldview from cradle to grave is an effective way to control them. I just identified that control being exercised in me. The way I felt about the woman I love seemed to depend on adherence to the archaic notion of monogamy.

Until very recently, I felt good about it. It's very convenient to avoid feelings of jealousy and suspicion by just promising to never do anything to stir those feelings. Convenient, but not very effective! Living mono, I still felt those feelings. I just had my faith in her to keep me afloat. I knew she would never do anything to hurt me. I didn't realize I was walking right into codependence.

I feel like codependence is actually celebrated in movies and television, masquerading as chivalry and romance. I thought I was a better partner for living up to the images I was shown. I never really thought much about it. I also thought that ethical non-monogamy was just for swingers.

I thought that the only way anyone could be okay with their partner having sex with someone else would be if they could somehow separate the act of sex from any sort of emotional involvement which that usually comes with. I was keeping the whole idea in the dildo drawer!

When I learned that polyamory is about being free to become romantically involved with other people, I was shocked. Somehow that seemed worse than sex! And then it started. The ideas that I had in my head were in conflict. What exactly do I mean by "worse than sex?" What is romance? What could it be? Why do I feel like I'm waking up? And what is that light at the end of the tunnel?

I'm sorry for the rambling post, but I feel comfortable expressing my feelings through writing, and just typing this is helping me sort out how I feel and what I want. I've got a long way to go undoing the conditioning I've gotten, but think I'm unplugged now.

Thanks for reading!
 
Polycurious_Adam said:
I thought that the only way anyone could be okay with their partner having sex with someone else would be if they could somehow separate the act of sex from any sort of emotional involvement which that usually comes with. I was keeping the whole idea in the dildo drawer!
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Your writing on your epiphany is great - in fact I literally laughed out loud at that line. (Though I have to admit I was afraid you were talking about reddit-style red pill for a second, rather than Matrix, but your post is the opposite of the toxic masculinity of *those* particular flavor of... {insert your favorite expletive here}. 'Course, it's always been ironic that that brand of redditors use an image from a movie directed by a pair of transgender women, but that's neither here nor there.)
 
Very well said. I'm pagan, but I've done a huge amount of research into how early Judaism wiped out the sacred feminine, multi-partner sex for women (men could still be polygynous), and just forced the patriarchy on a resistant public in general.

You can read for yourself in the Hebrew Testament how kings such as Josiah tore down pagan altars, chopped down sacred groves, destroyed images of Asherah and Ba'al, murdered pagan priests (probably more priestesses than priests), and forbid sacred sex workers of all genders from performing the holy rites in groves and in the temple in Jerusalem itself.

Male priests and all-powerful kings took away women's power and honor by force, and we've been destroying and raping women and the planet ever since. This is when women became "chattel," which means "cattle," non-human possessions.

Current polyamory is female-driven. Multi-partners to love and have sex with? For WOMEN? Quelle scandale!

Prior to "civilization," humans lived in tribes in small villages. People did not necessarily pair off into MF dyads. They were free to have multiple partners. (And transgender people could live as they wished. They were often honored as shamans, two-spirits.) And there were sacred sex workers from as far back as religion was invented. And group sex on May 1 (Beltane), and at other times, further increased chances of pregnancy. Even in early Jewish times, if a woman was married to an infertile man, she could get knocked up during an orgy, or by a male temple sex worker (qudesh), with impunity.
 
When I learned that polyamory is about being free to become romantically involved with other people, I was shocked. Somehow that seemed worse than sex! And then it started. The ideas that I had in my head were in conflict. What exactly do I mean by "worse than sex?" What is romance? What could it be? Why do I feel like I'm waking up? And what is that light at the end of the tunnel?
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Good for you working on self reflection!

I like to think adults eventually arrive at that place of questioning things to see if they still hold meaning or resonate. Not just taking things by rote and unquestioned from whatever external authority -- parents saying so, teacher saying so, movies saying so, books saying so, etc. But really examining and questioning and deciding if YOU say so... you being your own internal authority about how you want to be living your own life.

It is possible after reflection that you decide "Well, ok. Poly is fine for others, but not for me" because you ACTUALLY EXAMINED your own beliefs and thoughts and values. Not just going on auto-pilot and not doing the reflection work.

It is also possible you change your mind after refection and decide poly is for you. Or maybe something else is for you.

What your personal values are, how you want to be living your life, and how you curate your beliefs? All on you.

Maybe the Opening Up downloads help you think over some things.


Galagirl
 
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Hello Polycurious_Adam,

Thanks for sharing your feelings, it is hard to cut oneself lose from mononormative conditioning. Keep reading and posting on these boards, the feedback you get will help you detoxify. Others will come to you for help as well. Glad to have you with us!

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Magdlyn said:
Very well said. I'm pagan, but I've done a huge amount of research into how early Judaism wiped out the sacred feminine, multi-partner sex for women (men could still be polygynous), and just forced the patriarchy on a resistant public in general.

You can read for yourself in the Hebrew Testament how kings such as Josiah tore down pagan altars, chopped down sacred groves, destroyed images of Asherah and Ba'al, murdered pagan priests (probably more priestesses than priests), and forbid sacred sex workers of all genders from performing the holy rites in groves and in the temple in Jerusalem itself.

Male priests and all-powerful kings took away women's power and honor by force, and we've been destroying and raping women and the planet ever since. This is when women became "chattel," which means "cattle," non-human possessions.

Current polyamory is female-driven. Multi-partners to love and have sex with? For WOMEN? Quelle scandale!

Prior to "civilization," humans lived in tribes in small villages. People did not necessarily pair off into MF dyads. They were free to have multiple partners. (And transgender people could live as they wished. They were often honored as shamans, two-spirits.) And there were sacred sex workers from as far back as religion was invented. And group sex on May 1 (Beltane), and at other times, further increased chances of pregnancy. Even in early Jewish times, if a woman was married to an infertile man, she could get knocked up during an orgy, or by a male temple sex worker (qudesh), with impunity.
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This information is unfamiliar to me. Where did you come across all of this data?
 
MONELLA28 said:
This information is unfamiliar to me. Where did you come across all of this data?
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Reading books, such as the Bible. There is plenty of scholarly information out there about biblical history and pre-civilization history. You'd have to let me know which part of my post you are referring to.
 
infertile man, she could get knocked up during an orgy, or by a male temple sex worker (qudesh), with impunity.

Jewish Orgies at temple?
 
I think you're being asked what brought you to this site. Your questions seem a little ... scattershot. What is it about your life that made you come here for answers? This is a great community, and if you're here to learn more about polyamory, you're in the right place! Just know that the mods are really effective at weeding out bots, trolls and advertisements. If you're a troll, you'll be sussed out in short order. If not, then you should post an introduction! We'd love to get to know you!
 
Thank you for the reply. It's nice to receive an exchange that is clearly communicated. I'm looking forward to getting to know people here too and learning much on the topic of polyamory. I find it odd that I'm being accused of being a troll just for asking for information on a topic that was posted in a public forum. That seems a bit counterintuitive to me. Be assured that I am not a troll. I apologize that I don't really understand what scattershot means. But the person wanted to know what specifically they posted that I wanted more information on and I responded with a quote from their post that I wanted more information on. Does that seem scattershot to you really...? I'm going to Google that word now
 
I think it's just that people here are used to seeing folks ramble. There's a lot to unpack when trying to live your life a new way, and the posts are usually a lot longer. No judgement from me! I'm sorry you felt accused; I don't think that anyone meant it that way.

It's hard to sense someone's motivations through text. My strategy is to say as much as I can, and leave as little to the imagination as possible! I'm sure you'll find a warm welcome here. Pour your heart out! We're listening!
 
MONELLA28 said:
infertile man, she could get knocked up during an orgy, or by a male temple sex worker (qudesh), with impunity.

Jewish Orgies at temple?
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Yes, I read this information in several books. One of the best is a scholarly book by a Jewish historian, called The Hebrew Goddess. The author is very well-versed in Talmud, where the sages commented upon what was happening currently in Judaism, or had happened in the past. There is history written in the Talmud about the men's and women's courts, and what happened on certain holidays when the genders mingled.

Another good book on the subject is When God Was A Woman.

There is much information in the Bible (the Hebrew [Old] Testament) itself, about what we too often call "temple prostitutes." Sacred sex was common in all religions in the BCE period, in all the empires, Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome. It was not profane. It was a religious ritual. May 1, Beltane, was specifically celebrated by orgies in many cultures just to the north and east of Palestine. (Bel = Ba'al.) It was a spring fertility ritual. It was the goddess's wedding day. Humans often marry in June because, originally, May was the goddess's wedding and honeymoon, and so people would marry just after her month. (Mother's Day is near May 1 for a reason.)

In Exodus 32:6, when Moses went up the mountain to speak to Yahweh, and stayed away a long time, his tribe made a golden statue shaped like Yahweh as a young bull, and celebrated by eating and drinking then having an orgy. It is spoken of euphemistically. "They sat down to eat and drink and rose up to indulge in revelry." The Hebrew is clear on what this means.

Another good book about pre-historical sex and mating is Sex at Dawn. It describes past and current practices of stone age and bronze/iron age peoples. These ancient cultural practices linger on even in Europe to this day.
 
Polycurious_Adam said:
I think it's just that people here are used to seeing folks ramble. There's a lot to unpack when trying to live your life a new way, and the posts are usually a lot longer. No judgement from me! I'm sorry you felt accused; I don't think that anyone meant it that way.

It's hard to sense someone's motivations through text. My strategy is to say as much as I can, and leave as little to the imagination as possible! I'm sure you'll find a warm welcome here. Pour your heart out! We're listening!
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Man...Adam, thank you for the invitation to pour my heart out. ❤ I am struggling with my husband's secondary...but as I started writing my post abiut the topic, I began realizing I was actually harboring a lot of anger at my husband for past issues and I now think I may be redirecting my anger incorrectly. I'm still working it all out in my head as I just had the revelation this morning. I just know this process, which is very new to me, is...a struggle right now, and I came here for support and to better understand me, my reactions to his secondary and also to understand my own emotions that are really wearing me out right now. I appreciate your thoughtful reply.
 
I'd love to just jump in and start offering advice, but I don't know enough about your situation yet. That's okay, though! What's important is that you're addressing your feelings, and trying to understand where they're coming from. It's all to easy to say "this person made me feel this way," and forget to hold up that mirror. I'm looking forward to hearing your story! I'm going to try to blog tinight; I have figured out where my sense of ownership over my partner was coming from. What surprised me was that I didn't have to cut it out of me, I just had to find a healthy place for those feelings to live. If that sounds misguided, well ... you'll have to read my blog later if you want to find out what I mean!
 
MONELLA28 said:
Man...Adam, thank you for the invitation to pour my heart out. ❤ I am struggling with my husband's secondary...but as I started writing my post abiut the topic, I began realizing I was actually harboring a lot of anger at my husband for past issues and I now think I may be redirecting my anger incorrectly. I'm still working it all out in my head as I just had the revelation this morning. I just know this process, which is very new to me, is...a struggle right now, and I came here for support and to better understand me, my reactions to his secondary and also to understand my own emotions that are really wearing me out right now. I appreciate your thoughtful reply.
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Start a new thread for yourself. Really. It helps a LOT. There's something remarkably freeing about talking about deep emotional things with people who you'll never see in the offline world - who I don't even know their real names - and even just in processing / working out feelings in text rather than circling around in my head. At least it helps me anyway.
 
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