Ready to Give Up

[RumpleBubskin]

My wife and I have been together 11 years, married for 9 years. We decided to open up our marriage a couple months ago. I thoroughly prepared myself for the sexual side of the equation, and thought I had prepared myself the emotional one, as well.

About a month ago, my wife met a guy on OkCupid and they got pretty serious very quickly. I discovered I wasn't at all prepared for how quickly they developed feelings for each other and started running repeatedly through an emotional rollercoaster. Last week I finally acknowledged the most serious emotion as being jealousy, which surprised me, since it's something I've never felt before.

Yesterday they went on their 4th date, and it pretty much destroyed me. I held my own for about 6 hours of an 8+ hour date, but I finally let my emotions get the best of me and texted my wife that I didn't want to do this anymore. She's pretty much devastated, which is hurting me twofold, because I don't want to see her hurt and I don't want to see her hurt like that over another man.

Once she got home, I calmed down enough to at least commit to her, myself, and her boyfriend that I don't want to close the door, but I'm not sure I want to keep it open either. I acknowledge that these feelings of jealousy are mine to manage (and should, despite it all), but since I haven't met anyone in two months, I've become frustrated and am not sure I even want it for myself anymore. That feeling is independent of the jealousy, but it's one more reason why I don't want to try anymore.

I'm so confused about what I feel, because my rational self says I can do this, but my emotional self clearly disagrees. I don't want my wife to hurt because of me, but I don't want to hurt because I can't stand seeing her care for somebody else so much. I don't like giving up on things, but I'm very tempted.

I'm afraid that despite my decision I've ruined everything, because if we do continue, she'll never trust me to not have a breakdown again, and if we don't, she'll never forgive me for hurting her so bad. Or worse-- she will never get over her boyfriend.

 

[SNeacail]

Are you and your wife also going on dates?

You said you were able to hold it together for 6 hours, maybe they could back their dates off to only 4 hrs each time for a while.

 

[RumpleBubskin]

Sorta. We went to the movies for her birthday a couple weeks ago. Since we have 2 kids, it's been difficult to go out frequently, so we end up having "dates" while staying in. Unfortunately, I have had a hard time getting her to give me her full attention (chores, etc.), and they're never anywhere close to the amount of time her boyfriend gets. (E.g., Saturday we had about 2 hours, and there was some laundry mixed in.)

I'm not sure I can even think that far out right now. I have already considered the possibility of asking her to shorten her dates, but at the moment just thinking about any time puts a knot in my stomach. I feel sad, guilty, and hypocritical about it. She can't even get a text without my chest tightening up.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

What about you? Have you been exploring some other connections as well? There seems to be a trend of partners opening up their relationship, which seems like a great idea, until the first person finds a partner. Life would be much simpler if new partners came in pairs. At least then you could both get lost in NRE.

Maybe finding another relationship for yourself will give you something else to think about while she is out on a date. Regardless, maintaining some form of balance is important. Otherwise you might end up feeling like a babysitter for your wife's adventures. I can't see that leading to anything but resentment in the long run.

 

[RumpleBubskin]

Until last night I had an active OkCupid account, but I disabled it in frustration while I sort out how I feel about everything. I didn't go as far as actually deleting it, since I'm still not sure where I'm going.

I'm somewhat of an introvert, so finding connections has been difficult. IRL I tend to talk to people only after I feel a connection, and feel resentful toward friends who try to push me to do otherwise. Online I'm more outgoing (thus OKC), but I'm finding dating sites to be superficial and (ironically) disconnecting.

I think this is all relevant to the big picture (the resentment you mentioned) and some NRE of my own certainly would be a distraction, but I'm feeling like it's irrelevant to the jealousy issue since having another relationship of my own won't make me want my wife to be with her boyfriend.

I truly feel like I'm in a no-win situation.

 

[redpepper]

I suggest that you do a search on here "jealousy." We have talked about it a lot and it might be very helpful.

Jealousy, for me, is about un-met needs, I mean the base needs that make us stable humans, not for shelter, food, water, but emotional needs. We need to feel loved, cherished, appreciated, close to others who love us and that we love. We need connection time, quality time with people we love. I would suggest that looking at that might help you figure out what is off balance.

It sounds like fundamentally you are on board with being open in your relationship, which is usually quite different than polyamory, btw, at least by most people's definitions (although you can identify as you see fit). Polyamory is about loving another, not going out to have sex with others recreationally. At least, for most people, it seems this is how the definitions are divided. Perhaps a discussion with your wife about what it is she feels for this guy would be helpful in determining the goal that she has. It might help to see if your goals are still matching up.

If your goals are matching up and she believes herself to be closer to the standard definition of polyamory, then perhaps it's time to get more involved with this guy. It makes a world of difference, it seems, for all parties to be on board and supporting one another. Spending time all three of you together, involving him your lives somewhat, creating opportunities for the two of you to become friendly, all of this helps immensely.

What of the kids? Are you ending up being babysitter while she goes out and has fun? This probably isn't helping you get your needs met. It can build resentment to always be caring for the kids while your wife goes out to have a fun romantic time with another.

You are not alone. If you read some of my posts from 18 months ago, you will see that I was where your wife is now. I understand completely what it is all about and can relate to your situation. My Vee has made a lot of effort to work it all out, and we still are. This is an ongoing process. It does get easier to navigate with time and experience.

 

[SNeacail]

Since we have two kids, it's been difficult to go out frequently, so we end up having "dates" while staying in. Unfortunately, I have had a hard time getting her to give me her full attention (chores, etc.) and they're never anywhere close to the amount of time her boyfriend gets. (E.g., Saturday we had about 2 hours, and there was some laundry mixed in.)

This is exactly why the "staying in" thing doesn't usually work. Get a sitter and go to dinner, go for a drive, go parking, etc. Do something that requires you two to connect and talk with each other, and do it on a regular basis. When you get home, after the kids are in bed, spend the rest of the evening in your bedroom with the door closed, no dishes, laundry or picking up until morning.

When you are "staying in" and chores are getting done, are you doing them together? If I am the only one folding the massive pile of laudry while watching a movie, I don't consider that as time together, but if my husband is also folding laundry it feels different. Are you cuddled up when watching a TV show or watching a movie at home, or are you sitting apart? Things to think about.

How often do you and your wife send little texts ("Miss you," "Thinking of you," etc.) to each other during the day? I found that I need this.

I can easily see where 8+ hour dates out of the house with the bf, when all you get is "staying in" time, mixed with regular household chores, would be a problem. I will get jealous over my husband's time with any of his friends (no sex involved) when the balance is off, but when my needs with him are being met, I can be happy for him having fun without me. Have you told your wife what you are feeling before it gets completely overwhelming?

Two months is not very much time to deal with all the feelings and emotions that come with adding other people into your lives. Things may just be moving way too fast.

Some questions to ask yourself:
Why did you guys open up your marriage in the first place?
Is your relationship with your wife as strong as it can be?

 

[RumpleBubskin]

It sounds like fundamentally you are on board with being open in your relationship, which is usually quite different than polyamory. Polyamory is about loving another, not going out to have sex with others recreationally.

Actually, no, I do identify as polyamorous, as you define it. I'm just having a much harder time coming to terms with her emotional attachment to another man than I thought I would. I don't just want sex, actually, quite the opposite. I wouldn't be able to have sex with someone I didn't feel a connection with. I have the same desire for my wife.

I think the issue is that this relationship happened so quickly and came on so strongly that I didn't have time to adjust to all the new emotions I was feeling. There's certainly been some learning on her side too, with how to be sensitive to me and give me attention. I know I have insecurities and I haven't been given the opportunity to properly process them. I'm not trying to project my emotions onto anyone else, but I just feel that's the reality of the situation. It's just so totally consumed me for a month that I'm willing to do almost anything to get a break from it.

And, yes, I am essentially the babysitter while she goes out. She's gone out four times in the last five weeks, and I've stayed with the kids each time. We've only had a babysitter once in that time and that was for the one "real" date we had.

 

[RumpleBubskin]

When you are "staying in" and chores are getting done, are you doing them together? If I am the only one folding the massive pile of laudry while watching a movie, I don't consider that as time together. But if my husband is also folding laundry it feels different. Are you cuddling together when watching tv, or are you sitting apart?

We've been attempting to do things together, but it's still divided attention. When she's out, it's all about her boyfriend and whatever they feel like doing together, no distractions, no responsibilities.

How often do you and your wife send little texts during the day?

This is a request I've made of her already. We never used to text, and then all of a sudden she's exchanging 50 texts with him in one day. That's come down a bit since she's been busy at work, but I still feel like I have to ask or send the first text.

Have you told your wife what you are feeling before it gets completely overwhelming?

Constantly. Maybe even too frequently. I had a bit of a meltdown last Thursday. Before that we had talks just about every day. Most of our texts have been on the subject (which may be part of the problem with our texts).

Two months is not very much time to deal with all the feelings and emotions that come with adding other people into your lives. Things may just be moving way too fast.

That is one of my points. My head has been spinning. I'm out of breath trying to catch up. I've asked multiple times to slow things down, but NRE doesn't seem to respect that. I'm trying exceptionally hard to come to terms with my emotions, but every time I start to feel ok-ish with things, there's either something new thrown in, or another date comes up that I have to face. I've specifically told my wife "too much, too fast." I think I can accept her having feelings for another man, but I wasn't expecting them to be so strong so soon.

Why did you guys open up your marriage in the first place?

New experiences. New relationships. We thought it would be fun. We felt comfortable with "us."

Is your relationship with your wife as strong as it can be?

That's one place where this has been beneficial to us. We had a reasonably strong relationship to begin with, but all the discussions have helped solidify that. I, obviously, have my insecurities still, but they're not rational, so are extremely difficult to rationalize away. When I do think rationally I'm quite confident about us and our love for each other. It's very difficult to pinpoint where my jealousy is coming from. All I know is that I have it.

Just thinking about all this is nauseating.

 

[geminigirl]

Jealousy is always about fear of losing something, regardless of whether it's realistic or not. Sometimes it's fear of losing love, sometimes of losing control, and sometimes things from our past can crop up. Our current situation can be a trigger for a past loss that we don't want to think about.

While it's very true that jealousy is YOUR emotion to own and figure out how to deal with, our lovers can help us by listening, providing reassurance that they are there for us, and answer questions that we need to ask them.

First steps into poly are always big ones. There really is no other way to deal with the emotional impact of sharing a partner until we are in the situation. It's very much like being thrown into the water and having to figure out how to swim, or sink.

Like learning to swim, we can't really figure it out ahead of time from reading a book or hearing how other people did it. We pretty much have to get in the water and DO it. Once you're in there, though, it does help a lot to have someone right there beside us to grab onto us if we start to sink, or feel scared.

Go easy on yourself, and also try not to get angry at your partner. If you can, try not to take away things you have already granted to your partner, such as the freedom to see her boyfriend. Asking for more time for yourself is a better way to get the reassurance you need than asking her to stop doing something she obviously enjoys.

Does seeing your wife enjoying herself make you feel badly? If so, you really do need to question if polyamory is for you, since a BIG part of being polyamorous is cultivating enjoyment at the pleasure your partner has in being with other people.

Do you know her boyfriend personally? Have you spent any time getting to know him? I suggest you talk to him, or go for coffee, not with her present, but just the two of you. I know it's tough for guys to do this, but perhaps seeing him as just another person who is in fact different from you (and therefore not competition because you both offer her something different) might be reassuring.

I can think of more things to suggest, but my main advice is to take things slowly regarding your feelings, and to try to avoid vetoing while your wife is experiencing NRE with her boyfriend. I've seen this tactic backfire more often than not, creating hurt, anger and estrangement, when really all a couple needs to do is give each other more reassurance and faith that things can be worked out.

Communicate often!

 

[Ariakas]

We've been attempting to do things together, but it's still divided attention. When she's out it's all about her boyfriend and whatever they feel like doing together, no distractions, no responsibilities.

If you want to be able to handle this, might I suggest a hobby? Don't just do this for date nights, but things you do on your own. Hockey, football, hell, just go for a drink with friends. Having separate lives helps a lot. I don't mean splitting out everything you do. But figure out something that you can do.

You might be feeling jealousy but it could be something as easy to deal with as a mini-dependency. You need to own something to yourself.

This is a request I've made of her already. We never used to text, and then all of a sudden she's exchanging 50 texts with him in one day. That's come down a bit since she's been busy at work, but I still feel like I have to ask or send the first text.

I see this happen, too. The problem with judging texting is how little is exchanged. 50 texts is barely a real conversation. I worked with my wife on this and asked her to SPEAK with her bf. It has cut down on texting a lot.

This gives them a better chance to connect and interrupts our time a lot less. Might be a painful concession, but one you can work with for time needed.

My head has been spinning. I'm out of breath trying to catch up. I've asked multiple times to slow things down, but NRE doesn't seem to respect that. I'm trying exceptionally hard to come to terms with my emotions, but every time I start to feel ok-ish with things, there's either something new thrown in, or another date comes up that I have to face. I've specifically told my wife "too much, too fast." I think I can accept her having feelings for another man, but I wasn't expecting them to be so strong so soon.

Feelings come in massive waves and are different for everyone. This happens, there is nothing really anyone can do. Hell, I bet she can't even hide her feelings.

In regards to NRE, well... I think there are different degrees of NRE, and everyone reacts differently to different situations. Maybe you are asking things to slow down that just can't. Its something not usually spoken of, but there are some things with NRE that almost feel like they HAVE to happen. There is a natural flow to them. If that flow is broken it could really interrupt what they are trying to build. That could cause her to resent you, or create other areas where she will try to push the relationship unnaturally.

I know it sounds like I am trying to give her an excuse, but I'm not. I just believe there are stages of any relationship that have to be allowed to grow at their natural pace, or you risk damaging that potential relationship. Besides, when you find someone for yourself, you will want that room to grow too.

Maybe try and figure out the things that are bugging you, and make list of what's important, medium and menial. And try and work on concessions with her, to give her some room to grow the relationship, but try and remember what's at home, too.

I know in my NRE for SJ, I sometimes forget what's at home. Not literally, but figuratively-- my mind wanders to a location I am not at. It still happens, and i'ts something I need a kick to remind me of. It's an important place to have lots of communication, to figure out what hurts, where, and why. I don't think I have mentioned communication enough in this post, so lets just say "communication *10"...its really important

New experiences. New relationships. We thought it would be fun. We felt comfortable with "us."

Would it be more fun it you had someone? Is this jealousy, or a feeling of being excluded?

That's one place where this has been beneficial to us. We had a reasonably strong relationship to begin with, but all the discussions have helped solidify that. I, obviously, have my insecurities still, but they're not rational so are extremely difficult to rationalize away. When I do think rationally I'm quite confident about us and our love for each other. It's very difficult to pinpoint where my jealousy is coming from. All I know is that I have it.

That's awesome to read. You have a good foundation, really, you do. Just have some kinks to work out.

Keep posting. There are lots of people who can relate for you to talk to on this forum.

 

[Ariakas]

Like learning to swim, we can't really figure it out ahead of time from reading a book or hearing how other people did it. We pretty much have to get in the water and DO it. Once you're in there, though, it does help a lot to have someone right there beside us to grab onto us if we start to sink, or feel scared.

Well put. I couldn't agree more. When Pengrah and I decided to expand our openness to include polyamory, and start dating individually, the biggest wall I hit was her dating other men and potentially falling in love with them. I had to, in my head, really wrap my head around the idea. It was easily my second biggest hurdle in poly.

But I jumped in feet first and figured it out. Seeing other poly relationships and meeting other poly people has helped more than they know. It was a big thing for me to see how this worked.

All that said, big fan of the swimming analogy. I just babbled.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

It seems that you're envious of them getting extended one-on-one time, when all your time is shared with household/family responsibilities.

You and your wife need to go OUT on dates, away from responsibilities and chores. The boyfriend (if you trust him) can babysit, which kills two birds with one stone: you and the wife get some quality one-on-one time, and the boyfriend experiences "being at home with the kids while your partner is out on a date."

I've never been on an 8-hour "date." When my time with someone starts getting into that many hours, I no longer think of us as merely "dating."

Some people have recommended befriending with the other partner. That works for some, not for others. But perhaps if you and he go out for beers and talk shop, you'll be able to see him as a real person instead of just "the other man," and maybe it won't be so difficult when they're out together.

Ariakas is right, that you can't have a proper conversation via text message. When she's texting him while being with you, no one's getting quality time: not you, not the kids, not her, and not the boyfriend. They can get a lot more intimacy out of one 20-minute phone call than 50 texts scattered throughout the day. Then she can hang up the phone and just be with you and the kids. I'm even in "that" generation, and I still don't find texts useful for anything more than quick status updates and exchanging basic information, like, "What was the number of the insurance agent I'm supposed to call?" or "Sorry, running a bit late. I'll be there in 15 minutes."

 

[SNeacail]

I've never been on an 8-hour "date." When my time with someone starts getting into that many hours, I no longer think of us as merely "dating."

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought 8+ hour dates seems a bit excessive for someone you just met.

 

[Ariakas]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought 8+ hour dates seems a bit excessive for someone you just met.

Have you ever gone out for dinner, drinks and then a nightcap, or lunch, hanging out and then dinner?

8 hours isn't all that long, imo.

 

[SNeacail]

Have you ever gone out for dinner, drinks and then a nightcap, or lunch, hanging out and then dinner?

8 hours isn't all that long, imo,

Not since I had kids, unless the kids were at camp, or out of state for a week.

 

[Ariakas]

Not since I had kids, unless they were at camp, or out of state for a week.

Ah... that makes sense. Something I will have to think of when I have kids.

 

[RumpleBubskin]

Thank you all for the advice. With your help my rational self has finally taken back control. There were things I didn't want to hear, but very little I didn't already know to be true.

And while I certainly have a lot of things to deal with, I think I've made the right decision in telling my wife she can continue with a scheduled date (of sorts) at the end of next week. She's having an operation, and will be stuck at home for several days, so her boyfriend is going to come visit for a few hours one day.

After that we need to figure out what will work for both of us. I told her that I don't want to be in control of her relationship, but that we need to make some agreements on frequency and duration, as well as coming up with a more reliable routine for both us and them, while I work on managing my emotions. I have frequently asked for reassurance, affection, and attention, but I need to do better being more specific, while she needs to work on giving some of that without me having to ask.

I'm promising nothing, but giving it everything, despite my feelings, is the best I can do right now.

There's really only one thing in the above comments that I'd like to address directly:

I think there are different degrees of NRE. Everyone reacts differently to different situations. Maybe you are asking things to slow down that just can't. Its something not usually spoken, but there are somethings with NRE that almost feel like they HAVE to happen. There is a natural flow to them. If that flow is broken it could really interrupt what they are trying to build. That could create resentment from her to you, or create other areas where she will try to push the relationship unnaturally.

I know it sounds like I am trying to give her an excuse, but I'm not. I just believe there are stages of any relationship that have to be allowed to grow at their natural pace or you risk damaging that potential relationship. Besides, when you find someone for yourself, you will want that room to grow too.

While I completely understand your point, I think you miss the point that if I can't process what's happening at the speed that it's happening, then I'm likely to either shut down or explode/implode. My reaction yesterday and my melt-down Thursday (unrelated to an event) show that it's a possibility. If I can't be given time to manage my emotions, then I'm bound to ruin it for everyone. If I need to request some compromise from them in order to prevent that, then that's exactly what I'm going to do.

I don't think anyone would disagree that this has to work for everyone involved, with some concessions, of course. My concession is to keep trying, despite my emotional desire to give up. They're going to have to moderate things a bit so that I can do that. Less than 24 hours ago, I wasn't even willing to do that. So let's call it progress.

If my needs disrupt their natural flow, then maybe it's not right for our relationship, because my wife and I both agree that we come before everything else, and any relationship that jeopardizes that needs to be avoided. I'm sorry if that doesn't work for everyone else, but that's what is going to have to work for me. Talk to me in a year and I might have a different opinion.

 

[Ariakas]

While I completely understand your point, I think you miss the point that if I can't process what's happening at the speed that it's happening, then I'm likely to either shut down or explode/implode.

I did miss the point. Sorry. Yes, if you are at that point, then things need to be scaled back to let you catch up. The common saying on here is to go at the pace of the person struggling the most. While you do sometimes need to help the other person along, it's good if everyone is comfortable. I should have mentioned that before I said the above. I had forgotten that key part of how this has to work sometimes.

The journey can be tumultuous, but it is worth it.

 

[redpepper]

I think it's important to use as a time to discover new things about yourself and work on some stuff that you haven't been able to because you haven't had time. My husband PN did a massive chunk of redefining himself and working on his self esteem. He took it on and is a changed man because of it. This was his way of dealing with the change in our dynamic, and the change in the structure of time and our relationship. It worked wonders for him.

Is there something you could be doing? Perhaps request some time to go and do it. After all, you are owed a few babysitting sessions by your wife, no?

The idea of slowing down is a good one. Often it is suggested to go at the pace of the one who is struggling the most. Perhaps that is what you need now. A slower pace.

It sounds like you are feeling rather out of control on this and that is okay and normal. Take a breath for a sec and do some research here, on your own and with your wife. It might help you feel more like you are not going crazy. There is a thread on poly lessons learned that might be helpful (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2858).