My husband cheated twice and now wants to be poly (long post)

[SadCat]

Hi, I'm 36, bisexual female, my husband is 38, heterosexual male. This is gonna be a long post, but I'll try to stick to relevant info only.

INTRO:
When I met my husband (we'll call him Bob), I was in a long-term open relationship, and both my ex-partner and I were open to poly. Years before meeting Bob, I had been struggling in that relationship, however, as my ex was sexually abusive and suicidal, and despite my love for him I just couldn't see a future with him. When I met Bob, I felt a strong connection, first as friends, and then as lovers. It quickly turned into a secondary relationship, and for a time I dated both and we were all very happy with the situation. However, my issues with my ex didn't have a fix and he himself ended things, as he understood, seeing me with Bob, that I hadn't been happy with him in a long time. (That was the most selfless thing he ever did, honestly, and I'm very thankful.)

After the breakup with my ex, I told Bob that I wanted to be monogamous for a time, so we could get to know each other better and understand our dynamics before involving other people. He was fine with that. We quickly fell madly in love, got engaged after a few months, married after a year and a half, and agreed we would want to have kids together. Not sure when, but maybe two years or so into the relationship is when we both agreed to open the relationship, with the following rules:
- if one of us felt uncomfortable with being open, we would become mono again.
- we would always communicate before doing something with someone
- polyamoury wasn't off the table, but rather something to discuss if we started having feelings for someone to decide together on how to proceed
- we would never use relationships with others to fix issues in our marriage, we wouldn't see other people if we were having issues.
For years things went well. I made out with 3 or 4 people without any kind of sexual interaction (except for one of them, in a threesome with my husband and a female common friend, one time). He additionally had sex with one person a few times, and made out with maybe one or two more. So neither of us was going crazy, even if we had the opportunity. I will say, however, that I never sought out other men or women, but he did sign up to dating apps like tinder and bumble. Regardless, I never had any issues or ever felt jealous, and he never expressed any complaints of any kind.

FIRST TIME CHEATING:
During Covid, I had a lot of health issues appear suddenly and was diagnosed with a lot of shit and had several surgeries. My health, along with many other external issues that we had to deal with, put a LOT of pressure on our relationship. Both of our emotional and mental health suffered, except I went to therapy and tried to lean on friends and family. He didn't.

In our 9th year together, 7 of marriage approx, he met two people, one of them a female, and became tight friends with them. Then the girl, who was in a monogamous relationship and was much younger (23-25) started pursuing my husband. I had never had a problem with my husband having flings before, but something didn't feel right (maybe because she was so willing to cheat on her partner,or the fact she always seemed rude and dismissive of me when she came into OUR home when I was there, IDK), and I told him I didn't want anything to happen between them, and CERTAINLY did not want him to sleep with her, because A) we had just gotten out of a rough patch and B) we were trying to conceive.

Despite that, he slept with her, and played it down when he told me (he said they had "only" had oral sex, which was his "first" lie). The following months were a shit show, of him going behind my back with her, treating me like shit and getting defensive, of gaslighting me saying they were "just friends," when they were declaring their love for each other, meeting up on secret trips and having sex, and confusing the heck out of me saying he didn't love me one minute, and that he absolutely loved me and didn't want to lose me the next. (He was also lying to her, apparently.) It was hell.

At some point, he kept saying he felt so bad for clearly hurting me and not knowing what to do, so I said if he didn't know, then he should just leave me and figure it out afterwards. So he did. We broke up, but had to live together a few months, during which time he kept saying he was still confused, he didn't know if he had made a mistake, he regretted leaving me, he was still in love. We would occasionally have sex. (I was weak and sad.)

All the manipulation was traumatic enough-- I thought I was going crazy. But when I finally found out he had lied FOR MONTHS, I was shattered, because I could have never imagined him capable of such things. When I found out, it was like it gave him permission to become his loving self again. He said he was sorry, felt horrible, and I forgave him, although we didn't get back together immediately.

SECOND TIME HE CHEATED:
After several months of trying to stay friends, hanging out, still being married and not wanting a divorce, and him saying he'd actually never stopped loving me, that it was just all the pain that we went through individually and together that made him make bad choices, we ended up getting back together. However during the following months I would have trouble trusting in him, because I had a *sense* that sometimes, something was off. When we decided to get back together, I told him how traumatic all of this had been for me, and that because of the broken trust I wanted a monogamous relationship, because he hadn't been responsible with the freedom he had had, and we had to rebuild our relationship.

He was sorta ok about it, but at one point he had a breakdown, where he was again "unsure" about us, and how he felt. One of his excuses was that the fact that I wanted a monogamous relationship made him feel like I would never trust him again, and also that he felt he could no longer go back to that, that he needed an open relationship. This pissed me off, because I felt like, after everything, and having been back together officially for barely 2 or 3 months, the fact that he was having issues with monogamy, I was like... Can you give me a minute??? I told him, if I see that you are here, that you are trustworthy, that OUR relationship works, than maybe with time and healing I could be open to opening our marriage again. But I also told him I didn't think polygamy was possible, because I was too insecure in his love for me from all the changes of heart and also didn't see it compatible with the family I still wanted to have with him. I wanted a present father, not a man in several relationships and absent from home. (My father was like that.) He agreed to it.

Turns out, he had already met a girl (we'll call her Emma, age 26, I think, in a poly relationship) he liked. He'd misled her into thinking we hadn't gotten back together, and had left the door open to something with her. A week after my husband and I had the prior mentioned discussion, she declared herself to him and they had sex. He DID NOT tell me until a month later, after having had sex with her a couple more times, and basically dating. And when he did tell me, he didn't tell me the entire truth. He told me it had JUST happened the day before and downplayed their involvement.

My husband had talked about me and our relationship since the first time they met, and had been telling her before and after starting their relationship that he just HAD get back with me, that we clearly had a strong unique relationship. (Again, she didn't know we had gotten back together.)

AFTER FINDING OUT:
Since I've found out, I've kind of been confused as to why I haven't left him. He said that he regretted lying to me again, that it's because he still hadn't fully recovered from everything that happened. The thing is, when he told me, despite all the crying and being sorry and so on, he didn't give me all the truth right away (same as the first time). And he also wasn't ready to give Emma up.

So I decided to meet her, and see who she was. She was very sweet, and in many things (not physically) reminded me of a younger me. She insisted that she thought I was awesome and that she didn't want to get in between us, and was more than happy to end their romantic entanglement if it hurt me, and that if he left me because of her she wouldn't want to be with him, because our relationship came first. (Her other relationship was her main and she said it also came first.) In front of her he said he was also fine with that, and going "backwards". Except privately he wasn't. It was clear that if I didn't accept this situation, I would lose him.

After a few weeks, Bob told me he had been lying about when things had happened, and 'fessed up about the timing and the depth of their connection. I told him he owed the girl honesty and that was NOT the way to start a relationship, even if it was a relationship I didn't want him to have, and that dishonesty only pushed him away from people and from himself. So he told her I was there for support, and somehow kind of.... helped him? into not looking so bad?

But here's the thing, I still don't want a polyamorous relationship! I hadn't recovered from the first cheating, and this new one had been piled up on top of it, and knowing him and judging by how he's reacted and the things he's said when he's felt that the relationship with Emma was being threatened, either I magically feel okay with all of this or I have to leave, because he isn't going to leave her, and if things ended because of me I feel like he would resent me and it would be hell.

 

[SadCat]

(post was too long so I'll post the last part here)

Conclusion?
I've told both how much this is hurting me, but I also told them I am going to try to see if I can handle it. Since he's fessed up to everything, he has been very mindful and loving towards me, more at peace. And the girl is very sweet and seems to want my wellbeing. He said that now he thinks he's Poly and he can't go back, that he thinks he was Poly all along. He also says I am his priority, and that I'm the one he wants in his future, having his children. They've also acepted to temporarily put a hold on their physical intimacy until I feel more secure and he has shown me he's there for me. But them not acting upon their feelings honestly isn't making me feel better, and they still treat it each as girlfriend and boyfriend. I don't know if I can handle this situation. I feel like if he hadn't cheated twice and lied so much and been so inconsistent towards me the last year of our 10 year relationship, I might have actually been open to this. Emma says she doesn't want kids and would love to be the "fun aunt". But she's young, and can change her mind. They've been seeing each other for barely a few months and he's already unable to let her go and lied to have her in his life, I can only assume that with time she might become a priority instead of me. It definatly seemed like he was expecting me to leave him and was "at peace" with it when he told me about her. I don't know. Someone please help me. Should I push through and try to give this a chance? Should I leave him? Any advice if I do push through? Any advice on healing and regaining trust and recovering from the insecurities this has given me, WHILE being in this situation??

 

[Evie]

I think in your heart of hearts you know you're done, and perhaps just looking for some permission to be done. I get it. It's really hard leaving a relationship. But your future self will look back and be grateful that you did.

 

[ref2018]

I think in your heart of hearts you know you're done, and perhaps just looking for some permission to be done. I get it. It's really hard leaving a relationship. But your future self will look back and be grateful that you did.

And please don't bring a child into this shitshow. Your future self, as well as the child you didn't have, will be grateful.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry he's cheated twice and that you've had to deal with this kind of pain.

I've told both how much this is hurting me, but I also told them I am going to try to see if I can handle it.

One way to handle it is to break up with him once and for good. With his track record, I doubt he'd keep any new poly agreements. Eventually he'd just cheat on agreements again.

The age gap is also only going to get weirder as he continues to age and these ladies stay in their 20s.

Since he's 'fessed up to everything, he has been very mindful and loving towards me, more at peace. And the girl is very sweet and seems to want my wellbeing. He said that now he thinks he's poly and he can't go back, that he thinks he was poly all along.

That's nice. You can say "Cool. Too late to do that with me. I'm out. I hope you treat future partners better and actually get to ethical polyamory."

He also says I am his priority, and that I'm the one he wants in his future, having his children.

So? Just because he wants things doesn't mean you have to oblige.

If I want you to give me a Ferrari, you are going to say, "No, thanks, I won't be doing that." RIGHT?

So I decided to meet her, and see who she was. She was very sweet, and in many things (not physically) reminded me of a younger me.

You don't find that kinda creepy? He's seeking a "younger you" model, because you got older, and now expect things from him like accountability and personal responsibility, and she's still young enough to be besotted and swayed by his lies to her?

She insisted that she thought I was awesome and that she didn't want to get in between us and was more than happy to end their romantic entanglement if it hurt me,

Cool. That was when you could have said "Okay. This hurts me. He lies to me and to you. Dump him." And then you ALSO dump him.

If he left me because of her, she wouldn't want to be with me, because our relationship came first. (Her other relationship was her main and she said it also came first.)

You don't find it weird this young-adult stranger wants to prioritize your health and well-being more than your actual spouse? Or you?

In front of her, he said he was also fine with that, and going "backwards". Except privately he wasn't. It was clear that if I didn't accept this situation, I would lose him.

What exactly would you lose? Stress? Trauma? Manipulations? Aren't those GOOD things to be rid of?

They've also accepted to temporarily put a hold on their physical intimacy until I feel more secure and he has shown me he's there for me.

I'd vote no confidence on that agreement actually being kept. He's not got a good track record. She's young and besotted and being lied to.

Plus, making YOU be the "gatekeeper" just because HE can't exercise any self-control or sense is wonky.

But them not acting upon their feelings honestly isn't making me feel better, and they still treat it each as girlfriend and boyfriend.

See? It doesn't even make a difference. He basically gets to continue his cheating affair out in the open.

I don't know if I can handle this situation. I feel like if he hadn't cheated twice and lied so much and been so inconsistent towards me druing the last year of our 10-year relationship, I might have actually been open to this.

So end it with him, because 10 years is enough and you don't feel like putting up with more. Your consent to participate in things or not belongs to YOU. If he doesn't make the cut for what you seek in a partner, because you want reliability, honesty, a present father, etc., and he doesn't have these things, it's okay to end it and go seek a partner who DOES. Build your family with THEM instead.

If you did want polyamory for yourself, you sure as heck would not pick a cheating person to poly date, right? So why would you date HIM, a cheating person? You could move on to poly-date healthier people who would be honest and treat you better.

Here? You don't even want polyamory. He does. Not compatible. And in monogamy, would you be excited to take up with some cheating dude? It sounds like no. So he STILL doesn't make the cut.

But here's the thing, I still don't want a polyamorous relationship! I hadn't recovered from the first cheating, and this new one had been piled up on top of it, and knowing him and judging by how he's reacted and the things he's said when he's felt that the relationship with Emma was being threatened, either I magically feel okay with all of this or I have to leave, because he isn't going to leave her, and if things ended because of me I feel like he would resent me and it would be hell.

Why would YOU have to care about YOUR EX resenting you because you picked leaving and no longer putting up with his crap behavior or this unhealthy dynamic? He would be your EX at that point.

Can you HEAR how wonky it sounds?

You could stop giving this guy so many chances. It's okay to hit your limit of tolerance and hit your dealbreakers. It's okay to break the deal.

You leave because you want healthy monogamy, he can't offer it.

He cheats and lies. And you don't like it.

I get that feelings are rough right now, but the actions are straightforward.

Any advice on healing and regaining trust and recovering from the insecurities this has given me, WHILE being in this situation?

If you keep staying in a shaky, rickety thing, it's going to feel shaky and rickety there.

You need to be able to trust YOURSELF to get you out of wonky things.

• The abusive, suicidal ex-- you didn't end it with him. HE did.
• Cheating affair 1, with lies, trauma, manipulation-- you broke up, but still shared sex/said you were weak. Got back together.
• Cheating affair 2-- new shenanigans. And he's lying to Emma also. Still not broken up.

Exactly where is the limit for you? Where is the dealbreaker line?

You have to be able to say, "I love you, but NO, not even for you will I do stuff I don't want, or stay in stuff that hurts me. I have to love me too. And that's asking too much of me. "

Being here is hurting you.

When we decided to get back together, I told him how traumatic all of this had been for me, and that because of the broken trust I wanted a monogamous relationship, because he hadn't been responsible with the freedom he had had and we had to rebuild our relationship. He was sorta ok about it, but at one point he had a breakdown, where he was again "unsure" about us, how he felt, and one of his excuses was that the fact I wanted a monogamous relationship made him feel like I would never trust him again, and also that he felt he could no longer go back to that, that he needed an open relationship.

That's the thing-- you do not HAVE to trust him any more. You can just be done.

This is not a healthy relationship. Just because it was not abusive and suicidal like the one with your ex was, doesn't mean it is GOOD. It's unhealthy still. You are still riding the cycle of abuse, from the sound of it.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

I don't know if this helps you any.

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

He doesn't sound safe to be with. Don't have kids with him. Right now, breaking up with him, while there's grief to process, means you can be rid of him for good and never deal with him again.

Add a kid in there? Then, even if you are broken up, you have to deal with coparenting and custody issues. You don't get to just walk away like you can now. You are stuck dealing with him in a coparenting way for 18 years. Why would you saddle yourself with him for more time?

and also didn't see it compatible with the family I still wanted to have with him, I wanted a present father, not a man in several relationships and absent from home (my father was like that).

He doesn't make the cut for what you seek in a partner.

Since I've found out, I've kind of been confused as to why I haven't left him.

That's something to work on with your therapist.

But IME, the body has to leave first, before the mind and heart even get a chance to start healing. You haven't done that yet. Even when you were broken up before, you were still living together and sharing sex. So... really, what was broken up? Nothing. You were still involved.

I encourage you to talk to your counselor about leaving abuse, what steps you need to do to STAY gone and not get sucked back in. You don't have to stick around for Cheating Affair #3.

I can only assume that with time she might become a priority instead of me. It definitely seemed like he was expecting me to leave him and was "at peace" with it when he told me about her.

I'm worried about you. He might be "at peace" because he's thinking that he's got you sewn up. He's already done all his "testing." Now it's like he can basically do whatever, you will complain some, he does some crocodile tears and big "I'm sorry" things... and you keep staying and sharing sex and all that.

So really, what does he have to change? NOTHING. He can mess about with other people and he's got you there holding the fort, being the spouse and life manager and all that.

Don't let him trap you with a baby. Keep a sharp eye on your birth control so he can't mess with it.

I encourage you to talk to a counselor. You have serious stuff on your hands over there.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

Everybody agrees it's best you break up, but we're not in your shoes. You are. I will play devil's advocate and give you an alternative.

A sexologist in my country who's relationship ideas are now generally viewed as badly outdated proposed a strategy for cheating affairs. According to him, if you tell your spouse that his affair is supposed to stay his dirty secret, and if he talks about her at home or if they are seen as lover publicly, you're done, it's likely that the other relationship ends within a year (as soon as what we call "new relationship energy" has waned). According to him the new partner has the advantage in the first few months, and forcing him to end the affair immediately would indeed lead to a breakup, but the established partner has the advantage long-term, since your life is already entangled.

I don't see it leading elsewhere than a lifetime turning the blind eye to cheating, but apparently it worked for some.

However, some people are indeed able to do "don't ask, don't tell" and be happy - they consent to their spouse having relationships or sex outside the marriage but don't want to know about anything that's going on. Ever. As long as their relationship is fine (they date get the attention they need, household agreements kept,...), they don't ask whether their spouse was out with friends or went on a date.

So there's your option. Maybe not a great one, but maybe worth giving a thought if you don't actually want to be done.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Honestly, you can't open a relationship and then say "you can only act on it when I am happy."

The problem here is that you tried to maintain control and then saw your lack of control as a violation. In most of our relationships on this site, your conditions would have always been unacceptable.

Most of us would not allow a partner to dictate who or when we can have sex with someone else. That's not how we do ENM. I'd have asked for a scientific reason I must forego sex completely with someone else just because we are trying to conceive.

If you are in an open relationship, then one is allowed to seek out and interact with new partners. You can't flip flop between open and closed depending on your moods and how much of a good girl/boy your partner has been.

Your partner wants the type of autonomous polyamory that many of us here have. Not the type where you get to tell him when and where he can have sex with other people.

Again, that is how most if us here live our lives. We avoid partners who want to tell us how and when we can have sex. So most of us here would reject you based on those needs of yours.

If that makes you incompatible with him, then fair enough. But him wanting the type of relationship that most of us here have (where our partners do not get to tell us that our rough patch means no sex with others) isn't wrong by any means. This is a polyamory site and that is polyamory.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Oh and this was a person you met and saw as a secondary relationship to a primary you had, and then later you want to make it so he would have to ask and meet all this other criteria before he could have a secondary relationship. That's not right.

 

[SadCat]

And please don't bring a child into this shitshow. Your future self, as well as the child you didn't have, will be grateful.

I absolutely agree, and don't currently want to become pregnant until things are sorted out

I'm sorry he's cheated twice and that you've had to deal with this kind of pain.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

I don't know if this helps you any.

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

I encourage you to talk to a counselor. You have serious stuff on your hands over there.

Galagirl

Thank you for your input and the tools you shared. I will look into it. I guess despite everything I'm just not ready to quit things. We are, however, not currently living together. But I will keep your words and opinion in mind. Thank you.

Everybody agrees it's best you break up, but we're not in your shoes. You are. I will play devil's advocate and give you an alternative.

A sexologist in my country who's relationship ideas are now generally viewed as badly outdated proposed a strategy for cheating affairs. According to him, if you tell your spouse that his affair is supposed to stay his dirty secret, and if he talks about her at home or if they are seen as lover publicly, you're done, it's likely that the other relationship ends within a year (as soon as what we call "new relationship energy" has waned). According to him the new partner has the advantage in the first few months, and forcing him to end the affair immediately would indeed lead to a breakup, but the established partner has the advantage long-term, since your life is already entangled.

I don't see it leading elsewhere than a lifetime turning the blind eye to cheating, but apparently it worked for some.

However, some people are indeed able to do "don't ask, don't tell" and be happy - they consent to their spouse having relationships or sex outside the marriage but don't want to know about anything that's going on. Ever. As long as their relationship is fine (they date get the attention they need, household agreements kept,...), they don't ask whether their spouse was out with friends or went on a date.

So there's your option. Maybe not a great one, but maybe worth giving a thought if you don't actually want to be done.

I'm sort of already waiting it out, not with the idea in mind that this would end, but rather that I might just get used to it and be ok with it, as I've read that other people forced into poly have ended up being happy and am hoping it will be my case. But it's an interesting thought. Thanks for at least giving a different view on it.

Oh and this was a person you met and saw as a secondary relationship to a primary you had, and then later you want to make it so he would have to ask and meet all this other criteria before he could have a secondary relationship. That's not right.

To be clear, I was open to poly during most of our marriage. And those rules I had were the same I had in my previous relationship that led to dating him. He was new to open relationships and poly. The main thing we always said should be there was honesty, so that the other person is free to decide. He should ask me whether I want a poly relationship before entangling himself emotionally and sexually with someone. I feel like that's common sense, if at the time we had agreed on monogamy to rebuild our relationship and he hadn't expressed interest in anyone. (On the contrary, he had expressed he DIDNT want to meet anyone new.)

Additionally, he told me the first time he cheated that he wasn't actually in love, but saying he was made it easier for him to face the fact he was lying to me.

As for the issue with not having sex with other people while trying to conceive: I had an unwanted pregnancy prior to my marriage, despite using birth control, and had to have an abortion. Condoms can be broken, pills can stop working. People can also lie about using either. Unwanted pregnancies happen even when using protection. Also, in case you were unaware, if you're trying to conceive, it's ideal for the man to "save up" his sperm to coincide with the fertile window on the woman. If he's had sex with someone and ejaculated, it's going to be harder to conceive because he has less material left. Is that scientific enough for you?

I understand your points on "this is the poly way, so if you don't like it let him be his best poly self." I never denied him anything, all the "rules" or boundaries we set, we discussed and agreed upon together, and revisited often to ensure we both stayed on the same page. He never had expressed issues with these things, and applied them to me, as well. And I had never had issues with him being with other women, even when I thought it might lead to something romantic. It was only when his behaviour towards me changed, that both he and the first lover became disrespectful and cruel towards me, that I took issue with it, because of how it was impacting me and our relationship. Even then, I asked him several times if something was going on, and told him I would understand if he had fallen in love, and that I would be open to figure things out with him, and he chose to lie instead of giving me a chance, when I had never given him a reason to doubt how open-minded, adaptable and forgiving I can be.

So, I'm sorry, but your judgement is way off. This is not how things are done, and I doubt people in polyamorous relationships consider being dishonest and manipulative part of how a poly relationship should be. I have been in two poly relationships, and always led with honesty and communication, and I've never forced my choices on anyone. I have also been in mono relationships where I wanted to be open, but my partner didn't, and I respected their wishes I had chosen THEM before meeting others. I don't have a set rule of how I want my relationships to be (mono, open, poly), I decide how it's going to be depending on who I am with, WITH their feedback and consent. I find it disturbing that you might think that the situation I have described is the proper poly way to be (as if there was only one way to be poly, which is ridiculous). Still, thanks for your input, however unpleasant I found it to be.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for your imput and the tools you shared, I will look into it. I guess despite everything I'm just not ready to quit things, we are however not currently living together. But I will keep your words and opinion in mind, thank you

I'm glad you aren't living together! Can you go no contact?

Given the long list of poor behaviors... where IS the dealbreaker line for you? Are you able to articulate it?

Are you getting stuck in sunk-cost fallacy?

I'm sort of already waiting it out, but not with the idea in mind that this would end, but rather that I might just get used to it and be ok with it, as I've read that other people forced into poly have ended up being happy and am hoping it will be my case. But it's an interesting thought. Thanks for at least giving a different view on it.

You like being forced into things?

To me, you sound like you are in the bargaining stage of grief, like you kinda know deep down this is no good, but are still trying to "bargain" to make it work out ANYWAY.

I agree with Seasoned that the "open to casual sex" agreements were unreasonable and unrealistic. They don't even read like agreements to me. Mostly like a list of "Don't be mean to me/how to behave decently to me." Do you have to TEACH him that? He doesn't already know how to behave decently?

I feel like if he hadn't cheated twice and lied so much and been so inconsistent towards me the last year of our 10-year relationship, I might have actually been open to this.

But at this point, do the agreements even matter any more?

He's been cheating, lying, being inconsistent, etc. for the last year. You don't have to stick around, because he doesn't stick to any agreements he made -- whether they were reasonable ones or not. He's not a person of his word anymore.

The main thing we always said should be there was honesty, so that the other person is free to decide.

He failed at honesty. Repeatedly. How can you build anything healthy without it?

Getting bogged down in the open ENM agreements and how you are now being railroaded into polyamory, I think are the wrong things to focus on. And he might very well be focusing on them in new head games so he can take the spotlight off his behaviors and blame shift on to you.

But in the bigger picture, you are being harmed here. YOU could focus on THAT because you don't even want polyamory with him. You cannot "agree" your way to healthy relationship. It's either healthy or not.

It's like you tried to create a "container" with the agreements so you could quell anxiety and finally feel safe with him. But it was for naught, since he lied and cheated. You still aren't safe.

All the manipulation was traumatic enough, I thought I was going crazy. But when I finally found out he had lied FOR MONTHS, I was shattered, cause I could have never imagined him of such things.

You are experiencing gaslighting and other kinds of verbal, mental, and emotional abuse.

The leaving time is the dangerous time. Some of them go "If I can't have you, no one can!" and get really scary.

He's got Emma to keep him busy. Not that I wish ill on people, but for YOU, this might be the best time to escape, when he's distracted with that.

Let me lift this up again.

knowing him and judging by how he's reacted and the things he's said when he's felt that the relationship with Emma was being threatened, either I magically feel okay with all of this or I have to leave, because he isn't going to leave her, and if things ended because of me I feel like he would resent me and it would be hell.

His expectation is for you to lump it. Your feelings are an inconvenience to him, so you better get ok with it by magic and slap a smile on your face, stat.

And if you dump him (even though you have PLENTY of reasons to dump him), the relationship ending is YOUR fault, not his fault, due to his lies and his poor behaviors towards you, but YOUR fault because you "failed" to be ok with his poor behaviors. (It's a good thing to "fail" at! You do not HAVE to put up with it!)

So he's going to resent you if you dump him. (He is your ex after you dump him. You don't HAVE to care what he feels. If he wants to resent you because you won't let him keep doing this to you, that's fine. He can do that on his own time, far, far away from you.)

And "it will be hell." (WTF is that? Is he threatening bodily harm? Threatening your life?)

Additionally, he told me the first time he cheated he wasn't actually in love, but saying he was made it easier for him to face the fact that he was lying to me.

Isn't that insulting, bringing you all this cheating mess and he's not even in love with the cheating affair partner?

What does he has to "face" in lying to you? He's either lying or not.

It was only when his behaviour towards me changed, that both him and the first lover became disrespectful and cruel towards me, that I took issue with it because of how it was impacting me and our relationship.

So he treated you poorly and let the Cheating Affair Person 1 treat you poorly.

Is that loving behavior towards you? Nope. You do NOT have to be ok with cruelty.

I wonder if he actually loves your or just loves the things you did/do for him? He just likes the services you provide/provided?

During Covid I had a lot of health issues appear suddenly and was diagnosed with a lot of shit and had several surgeries. My health, along with many other external issues that we had to deal with, put a LOT of pressure on our relationship.

I notice it was during your health issues where you stopped/changed your providing that he got the roving eye. Did you catch that?

Even then, I asked him several times if something was going, and told him I would understand if he had fallen in love, and that I would be open to figure things out with him, and he chose to lie instead of giving me a chance, when I had never given him a reason to doubt how open-minded, adaptable and forgiving I can be.

He's cruel to you and you keep trying to be "nice and understanding"?

There is such thing as being TOO nice.

So... why are you still giving him chances? He was cruel with Cheating Affair 1. And here is Cheating Affair 2 now.

I have also been in mono relationships where I wanted to be open but my partner didn't, and I respected their wishes I had chosen THEM before meeting others.

He doesn't give you the same respect.

I don't have a set rule of how I want my relationships to be (mono, open, poly), I decide how it's going to be depending on who I am with, WITH their feedback and consent.

It's fine if you are ambiamorous.

I think you are right to be distrustful and not want to do polyamory with HIM. He's not a nice person. He's not healthy to be with.

Unwanted pregnancies happen even when using protection.

Yup. What's the plan if he gets Emma, or one of his other cheating partners pregnant?

He could have a third lady already and just be cheating some more on you, and starting to cheat on Emma. You already know he lies to both of you.

Get your STI labs done, if you haven't already.

This is not how things are done, and I doubt people in polyamorous relationships consider being dishonest and manipulative part of how a poly relationship should be. I have been in two poly relationships, and always led with honesty and communication, and I've never forced my choices on anyone.

There is your personal standard.

So why are you thinking about being ok with being forced into poly, accepting less than honesty, and weird communication/lies? Why are you accepting behaviors from him that are below your personal standard?

Be careful you aren't getting DARVO crap too.

You have every right to leave. I'm GLAD you have left in body and now live separately. You get to have your own safe space in your home.

I see you love him, but he's not making the cut on your personal standards. You want to work it out so he DOES change and finally meets them so you can stay and not be hurt any more.

But I vote no confidence on that. I suspect, somewhere deep down, you might too.

Please talk to your counselor about the lies, trauma, manipulations, and abuses you are experiencing and get help for how to leave... and staying gone, not getting sucked back in.

Internet people might help you with 1 or 2 things, but this is way serious and it's not even healthy polyamory. It never was, and it sure as heck isn't now.

You are being harmed.

Galagirl

 

[Bobbi]

Relationships are based on trust. Without it your relationship is doomed. You don't, can't, and won't trust him again. There's nothing to save here. You are just beating a dead horse. Continuing on will just prolong the hurt and will leave you a shell of a person in need of decades of therapy. Get a Therapist now and get out. Hopefully, with a good therapist you can move in to find a healthy partner to show you what it is to truly be loved because this isn't it.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

He should ask me whether I want a poly relationship before entangling himself emotionally and sexually with someone,

But you met him when you already had a partner and he was an additional partner. You were poly. It seems like poly is something you take off on and on the table when it is convenient for you. That's confusing for anyone.

Condoms can be broken, pills can stop working. People can also lie about using either.

This is true all of the time. This is a reason to not be ENM at all, ever.

it's ideal for the man to "save up" his sperm to coincide with the fertile window on the woman.

Sex doesn't have to include ejaculation and I think that window is a few days of saving up. Not weeks.


Overall, it seems like you met someone who was right for you when you needed someone who could tolerate you having an additional partner, but switch to a monogamous primary arrangement when it becomes convenient for you. And just open enough when it suits you. It's a big ask.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello SadCat,

Bob has been very dishonest with you, repeatedly over a long period of time. It's nice that Emma made a good impression with you, I'm thinking she is not the problem, Bob is the problem. It sounds like he is giving an implied ultimatum, either you accept his relationship with Emma, or you have to leave. Personally I don't know how you could ever be okay with this, what with all the lying he has done along the way. You need your marriage to him to be monogamous for a while so that the two of you can make repairs on your relationship, and so that you can feel like you can trust him again, and he just isn't willing to do that. I don't want to tell you to divorce him, but I don't see any other way out of this situation. I don't trust him to tell the truth now.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.