How to wrap my head around wife fooling around with another guy.

[MrD]

Looking for advice. Me male (54), wife (53) have been married 11 years with no kids left at home. Our marriage is solid now, we love each other more now than when we first meet and have an awesome sex life.
Recently my wife told me she wants to be a slut and have other men fuck her. She told me she recently let a guy kiss her breasts, finger her and eat her out but that’s as far as they went because she felt guilty and needed to tell me before they went any further. (I know that’s basically cheating, but I love my wife and I have always been open to her fantasies.) A number of times throughout our marriage she has told me she wants to see me make love to another women. After some long conversations I told my wife she can continue seeing this guy and see where it leads it’s been about 4 weeks and she flirts with him wearing reveling outfits sometimes showing glimpses of her pussy to him. She says she loves the attention from him. But they have not had any further sexual encounters (touching). But on the other hand when we are having sex she nearly always starts talk about him and how much she wants him to fuck her. She asks me if I want him to fuck her and I tell her yes asking as she tells me all the details of their encounter and that when their done she needs to come home so I can reclaim her as my own. She says that makes her so wet to think of me reclaiming her.
I’m in too minds about the whole situation. Firstly it makes me anxious to think of another guy fucking her but it also makes me excited to think of another guy giving her pleasure and for filling her fantasy. Is this normal and how can I reduce the anxiety?
Secondly if we are in an open marriage should I start thinking about opening up myself (exploring the idea of seeing other women). It seems logical that I should so we are both going through the same emotions. How have experienced open marriages dealt with the emotional anxieties for both sides ( the one fucking and the one hearing about the fucking)?
Thank for listening and I hope to read some good advice.

 

[Magdlyn]

Looking for advice.

Hi, welcome to the forum. Your situation is not one of polyamory. Polyamory means "many" (Greek) "loves" (Latin). You two are having fantasies about an "open relationship," for sex only, it seems. These two, open relationship and polyamory, both fall under the "ethical non-monogamy" umbrella, along with swinging.

Me, male (54), and my wife (53) have been married 11 years, with no kids left at home. Our marriage is solid now, we love each other more now than when we first met and have an awesome sex life.
Recently my wife told me she wants to be a slut and have other men fuck her. She told me she recently let a guy kiss her breasts, finger her and eat her out, but that’s as far as they went, because she felt guilty and needed to tell me before they went any further. (I know that’s basically cheating, but I love my wife and I have always been open to her fantasies.)

It does sound like cheating at first glance. Is there a reason she did the sex stuff before telling you she was planning to?

I'm glad she "confessed" soon after she did it. That is the ethical part.

A number of times throughout our marriage she has told me she wants to see me make love to another women. After some long conversations I told my wife she can continue seeing this guy and see where it leads. It’s been about 4 weeks. She flirts with him... [snip] She says she loves the attention from him. But they have not had any further sexual encounters (touching). But on the other hand when we are having sex she nearly always starts talk about him and how much she wants him to fuck her... [snip]

I'm glad you enjoy your fantasy and she seems to have a willing partner. Keep in mind that fantasy and reality are two different things. As she continues to date or have sex with her new partner, your marital dynamic will change.

I’m in two minds about the whole situation. Firstly, it makes me anxious to think of another guy fucking her, but it also makes me excited to think of another guy giving her pleasure and fulfilling her fantasy. Is this normal?

Yes, it's normal to feel anxiety, because you and she are doing something new. After you do it for a while, if it goes well, your anxiety will lessen, if you all adapt. If there are issues for any of you, jealousy, increasing feelings, your wife's NRE (new relationship energy/infatuation for new guy) making her neglect you, etc., your anxiety will increase.

How can I reduce the anxiety?

Keep your lines of communication open. Ask for reassurance if/when you need it. Keep dating each other (actually plan and go on special romantic dates). Go slowly. Encourage her to maintain balance, despite her interest in the new guy. She will be the "hinge" and it will be her responsibility to meet the needs of you and new guy.

Secondly... should I start thinking about opening up myself?

That's up to you. Sure, you can think about, and do it, but maybe not right away. I'd recommend giving this one new dynamic some time to settle (at least a few months), and feel more normalized, before you complicate it further.

If you also want to have sex with others, you and wife could start swinging, swapping, or seeing others individually. If you're both bi, things will go one way. If she's bi and you aren't, or vice versa, that's another variation. If you're both straight, that's fine too.

Keep in mind it's much much easier for women to find men willing to fuck a married woman than it is for a married man to find women willing to fuck him, unless you start swinging as a couple.

It seems logical that I should, so we are both going through the same emotions.

You won't go through the "same" emotions, necessarily. That depends on your personalities, genders, etc. It might seem fairer for you to also date/fuck others, but (for example) if you keep getting rejected, everything might taste sour to you, while wife is having the time of her life.

How have [people who have] experienced open marriages dealt with the emotional anxieties for both sides (the one fucking and the one hearing about the fucking)?

Your wife also has to have the consent of her other fuckers to tell you the details of their encounters. This is part of ENM, consent from everyone on every detail of the relationships. Most men, at least that I have found, don't mind if the woman tells her other partner(s) about what they do in bed. Many women you might date/fuck, might not want you to tell your wife about the sex you have. Besides the horny factor of hearing about each other's sex with others, there is also the concept of honoring and respecting the privacy of the other lovers.

Please read the book Opening Up for a lot more info on these subjects.

And here is a lot more information about ENM and polyamory:

https://polyamory.com/forums/golden-nuggets.26/

 

[kdt26417]

Hello MrD,

I think this is just a strange thing to you, most of us are raised with monogamous programming, it is not easy to reprogram yourself. It is going to feel strange for quite some time, you need to gradually get used to the idea of your wife having sex with this other man, it is hard right now but it will get easier. How far does this fantasy go, would you and your wife want to do a threesome with this man? Would you and your wife want to do a threesome with another woman? These are not requirements, but if it's something you want it may contribute to her thing with this man becoming the new norm. Anyway, the thing you probably need most at this time is just patience.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[dingedheart]

Hey, MrD. Welcome to the forum

Looking for advice. Me male (54), wife (53) have been married 11 years with no kids left at home. Our marriage is solid now, we love each other more now than when we first meet and have an awesome sex life.
Recently my wife told me she wants to be a slut and have other men fuck her. She told me she recently let a guy kiss her breasts, finger her and eat her out but that’s as far as they went because she felt guilty and needed to tell me before they went any further.

Seriously, what’s the appreciable difference between a tongue, fingers and a penis? I mean, I don’t get the red lines.
How old is said bf?
Have we had the safer sex talk?
Seen any lab results after they swapped secretions?

(I know that’s basically cheating, but I love my wife and I have always been open to her fantasies.) A number of times throughout our marriage she has told me she wants to see me make love to another women. After some long conversations I told my wife she can continue seeing this guy and see where it leads it’s been about 4 weeks and she flirts with him wearing reveling outfits sometimes showing glimpses of her pussy to him. She says she loves the attention from him. But they have not had any further sexual encounters (touching). But on the other hand when we are having sex she nearly always starts talk about him and how much she wants him to fuck her. She asks me if I want him to fuck her. I tell her yes, asking, as she tells me all the details of their encounter, that when they're done, she needs to come home so I can reclaim her as my own. She says it makes her wet to think of me reclaiming her.

Sounds like she wants to turn you into a cuckold, or open you up to the cuckold lifestyle.

I’m in two minds about the whole situation. Firstly, it makes me anxious to think of another guy fucking her, but it also makes me excited to think of another guy giving her pleasure and fulfilling her fantasy. Is this normal? How can I reduce the anxiety?

There have to be loads of cuckold forums and websites. Try there.

If we are in an open marriage, should I start thinking about opening up myself (exploring the idea of seeing other women)? It seems logical that I should, so we are both going through the same emotions. How have experienced open marriages dealt with the emotional anxieties for both sides (the one fucking and the one hearing about the fucking)?

Definitely start learning about being in an open relationship, regardless if it ends up being hotwife or a cuck thing.

 

[Tinwen]

She can't make him a cuckold.
She's sharing what turns her on, and possibly a way to be emotionally safe (being "taken" by her husband once she comes home may help her not fall in love).
Why call it cuckolding if it's not his kink, just opening up a relationship.

 

[dingedheart]

She can't make him a cuckold.

How do you know? Maybe she’s very very persuasive and persistent and knows exactly what and when to say it. Woman have been known to to make men do all kinds of crazy stuff. Don’t sell your gender short.

She's sharing what turns her on, and possibly a way to be emotionally safe (being "taken" by her husband once she comes home) may help her not fall in love.

Or possibly to get drilled by young well-hung dudes while MrD is home warming up for sloppy seconds. Any and all things are possible.

Why call it cuckolding if it's not his kink, just opening up a relationship?

Sorry, but I didn’t read it wasn’t his kink. Them both being turned on by it and using that scenario while having sex suggested that’s sort of the path they’re both looking to go down. Poly openly serves the cuck community, or vice versa, and I think in a poly-mono context those relationships tend to last way longer because it’s not so one-sided.

 

[Tinwen]

@dingedheart Ok, I'll be blunt. Please don't throw the label at someone like that. This is really something people should self-identify with. Even if they, as a couple, enjoy some elements, it doesn't make him a cuckold.
One slap on the ass doesn't make someone a kinkster, neither does sharing a fantasy, a few stories about others or having sex right after she comes home or similar.
No one can make someone a kinkster. They can help you discover a side of you you didn't know, but you're not gonna be converted by someone's clever talk.

 

[Magdlyn]

Sorry, but I didn’t read it wasn’t his kink. Them both being turned on by it and using that scenario while having sex suggested that’s sort of the path they’re both looking to go down.

No. Cuckolding is a very specific and rather uncommon kink. Being turned on by hearing about a sex session is, on the other hand, almost universal and common, if your arousal can overcome any jealousy/envy, that is.

Poly openly serves the cuck community, or vice versa,

I have never heard this opinion expressed before, in all my time practicing polyamory. Most polyamorous people do not have group sex. There has never been a "cuck chair" in my bedroom, I'll tell you that. Polyamory means multiple loves, not group sex, threesomes, voyeurism, exhibitionism, or swinging. Let's not confuse them. I've never been 'served' by the "cuck community."

What the heck are you on about? What in your history has led you to say this? You and your wife broke up because she... [deleted]. You were not a cuck. Are you imagining if you had been, all would have been well?

Out of all the posts on this board for 17 years, I'd say one in several thousand has concerned cuckoldry.

and I think in a poly-mono context those relationships tend to last way longer because it’s not so one-sided.

Polyamorous relationships, where one person in a couple is mono and one is polyamorous, tend to last longer if the mono one is being cuckolded? I'd like to see studies lol

 

[Tinwen]

Polyamorous relationships, where one person in a couple is mono and one is polyamorous, tend to last longer if the mono one is being cuckolded? I'd like to see studies lol

That's actually a plausible assumption we tell mono people they have to have find some advantage in this arrangement for themselves, otherwise it's usually too much suffering to go through just to keep their current (newly poly) partner. If you've got that kink, that's hell of an advantage

 

[Magdlyn]

That's actually a plausible assumption we tell mono people they have to have find some advantage in this arrangement for themselves, otherwise it's usually too much suffering to go through just to keep their current (newly poly) partner. If you've got that kink, that's hell of an advantage

I can see that. But cuckoldry is a kink, rather rare, compared to people who want to practice polyamory, or attempt to do mono/poly. So I am not sure either that dinged should assume this guy is a cuck, nor should we assume enough men are cucks in general to assure them that if only they were cucks, they'd enjoy being a mono in a poly network.

I think it's much more common that successful mono/poly relationships happen when the mono has solid reasons for preferring monogamy, while enjoying or at least happily tolerating their partner dating others. The reasons might be, the mono is introverted and doesn't have the social energy for more relationships, and in fact, enjoys their quiet "me-time" when their partner goes out. Or, the mono has a low or non-existent libido and prefers their partner to get sex elsewhere. Or the mono has many compelling hobbies and uses their free time that way. Or the mono has kids, or friends, or relatives, or a job that keep them pleasantly non-romantically busy.

Or, again, the mono might enjoy hearing about their partner's sexual escapades (with the poly person's OSO's consent, of course), without wanting anything more. There is a range in this interest, and doesn't have to be full-blown cuckoldry to be enjoyable. Maybe the mono doesn't even feel arousal from the stories, just pleasant compersion (that would be me, not that I often want to hear about my other partners' sex with their OSOs).

 

[Tinwen]

We're not in disagreement.

 

[dingedheart]

@dingedheart Ok, I'll be blunt. Please don't throw the label at someone like that. This is really something people should self-identify with. Even if they, as a couple, enjoy some elements, it doesn't make him a cuckold.

I thought this was a big tent of see positivity and everyone has the right to their own kinks and preferences among consenting adults

One slap on the ass doesn't make someone a kinkster, neither does sharing a fantasy, a few stories about others or having sex right after she comes home or similar.

Hey you got to start somewhere. My opinion is too each his or her own I wasn’t judging them I’m surprised you are.

No one can make someone a kinkster. They can help you discover a side of you you didn't know, but you're not gonna be converted by someone's clever talk.

Intellectually I’d agree with that …however on a practical level people can and are groomed. We see it all the time with poly itself when one spouse wants to convert a 10-15yr marriage to poly. Poly under duress ? I’m sure there are cases where this happens with this too. Is it common ??? No idea

 

[dingedheart]

No. Cuckolding is a very specific and rather uncommon kink.

What do you mean NO.

I heard Chris Williamson ( podcaster ) say it was the fastest grown kink and porn category….the show wasn’t specifically about the cuckoldry but porn category’s …step mom porn, etc.

Being turned on by hearing about a sex session is, on the other hand, almost universal and common, if your arousal can overcome any jealousy/envy, that is.

Id say those who get turned on are way closer to and will have an easier time slipping into that role / dynamic from those that a violent revulsion reaction. If you start off getting turned on you’re in and infinitely better place than feeling sick to your stomach

I have never heard this opinion expressed before, in all my time practicing polyamory. Most polyamorous people do not have group sex. There has never been a "cuck chair" in my bedroom, I'll tell you that. Polyamory means multiple loves, not group sex, threesomes, voyeurism, exhibitionism, or swinging. Let's not confuse them. I've never been 'served' by the "cuck community."

So if you didn’t personally dabble in this it can’t be true. Way to make this about you

What the heck are you on about?

I don’t know what this means …on about ??

What in your history has led you to say this? You and your wife broke up because she... [deleted]. You were not a cuck. Are you imagining if you had been, all would have been well?

Once again I’d like to thank you for somehow referencing my history when I post something YOU disagree with.

AND YES …TINWENS POST #9

Out of all the posts on this board for 17 years, I'd say one in several thousand has concerned cuckoldry.

Which means what ??? It doesn’t exist or when it does it’s a private matter or there aren’t many issues comcerning the cuck dynamic ?

Polyamorous relationships, where one person in a couple is mono and one is polyamorous, tend to last longer if the mono one is being cuckolded? I'd like to see studies lol

You’re right it’s super hard to imagine how that could work out to everyone’s benefit. Maybe the reason no one has studied it ( and you know all the latest studies under the ENM UMBRELLA) is because is so painfully obvious??

 

[dingedheart]

That's actually a plausible assumption we tell mono people they have to have find some advantage in this arrangement for themselves, otherwise it's usually too much suffering to go through just to keep their current (newly poly) partner. If you've got that kink, that's hell of an advantage

YES ….HELL OF AN ADVANTAGE !!!

 

[dingedheart]

I can see that. But cuckoldry is a kink, rather rare,

What peer reviewed study or studies claim this is rare ? And what difference does it make on how rare it is ?

compared to people who want to practice polyamory, or attempt to do mono/poly. So I am not sure either that dinged should assume this guy is a cuck, nor should we assume enough men are cucks in general to assure them that if only they were cucks, they'd enjoy being a mono in a poly network.

How about who care how or why people make those choices. And dinged isn’t assuming just throwing out ideas as to quell his anxiety. Why not lean into it rather than deny and turn away ?

I think it's much more common that successful mono/poly relationships happen when the mono has solid reasons for preferring monogamy, while enjoying or at least happily tolerating their partner dating others. The reasons might be, the mono is introverted and doesn't have the social energy for more relationships, and in fact, enjoys their quiet "me-time" when their partner goes out. Or, the mono has a low or non-existent libido and prefers their partner to get sex elsewhere. Or the mono has many compelling hobbies and uses their free time that way. Or the mono has kids, or friends, or relatives, or a job that keep them pleasantly non-romantically busy.

Is this from a study ? oh you missed a couple ……dont want the added work of dating or the possible rejection.

Or, again, the mono might enjoy hearing about their partner's sexual escapades (with the poly person's OSO's consent, of course), without wanting anything more. There is a range in this interest, and doesn't have to be full-blown cuckoldry to be enjoyable. Maybe the mono doesn't even feel arousal from the stories, just pleasant compersion (that would be me, not that I often want to hear about my other partners' sex with their OSOs).

If it’s so rare how is it know so much on the bell curve /range of interest.

 

[Tinwen]

I thought this was a big tent of see positivity and everyone has the right to their own kinks and preferences among consenting adults

Hey you got to start somewhere. My opinion is too each his or her own I wasn’t judging them I’m surprised you are.

Intellectually I’d agree with that …however on a practical level people can and are groomed. We see it all the time with poly itself when one spouse wants to convert a 10-15yr marriage to poly. Poly under duress ? I’m sure there are cases where this happens with this too. Is it common ??? No idea

You didn't get me. Obviously I'm in the "everyone has the right to their own kinks" tent. (After all, you might have noticed mine.) THEIR OWN. But I haven't seen the OP themselves call themselves a cuckold. You did. And that's not appropriate, because it's quite uncomfortable having a label slapped onto you. And yes, it's a very loaded label.

You can suggest the OP might want to look into that dynamics, and who knows, maybe they will find it fits their preference one day, but I really feel the need to defend them against being thrown into that basket on the basis of what has been written.

If your point is they are being pushed into a role that doesn't fit, fine. It's possible. All the more reason to not call him a cuckold it that's not what he chooses for himself!

Even if you happen to be right about the OP (again, nothing there to convince me about that yet), it's not ok to label them. I wouldn't want someone call me a masochist, let alone a submissive [a label I adopted for a while and now doubt again], before I understood my own preferences and everything those labels can imply. I had a different idea about their meaning and I might have been offended. Get it? Please don't do it to people.

Unfortunately, we've derailed the thread

 

[Magdlyn]

(Yeah, I'd love to add more to the derailment, but) as a mod I guess I have to say, let's drop this and see if the OP comes back.

 

[GalaGirl]

Wow. I'll be honest. You are dealing with a lot, MrD. I'm going to give you some things to think about, ok? You don't have to answer any here, just maybe reflect on them.

I think you could slow down. You just learned the news recently.

Trying to move into an open marriage that began with cheating sounds complicated to me. What have you two done to process that piece? Counseling? Reading? Anything? Are you still in shock, or feeling off-balance, and trying to make big decisions while stunned?

Her continuing with the same affair partner also stands out to me. Even if you’re open to non-monogamy in theory, you might not actually feel safe or good about this situation. If she couldn’t keep her previous monogamous agreements with you, what’s changed that would make new open-marriage agreements feel solid to you?

What is this "open marriage" even meant to be? Open to casual sex? Kink? Swinging? Polyamory? Something else? A combo? It sounds like your wife has some kind of "hot wife" or "cuck" kink, or similar. But do you even share that kink and want to share that with her? Or not really? Is this going to be like a "mixed marriage" of sorts, where on her side, she's dating other people for kink, and on your side, you are dating other people for polyamory?

Do you even want to hear about her experiences? Some people prefer parallel dating — where you know the basics (who, scheduling, STI testing, safer-sex practices) but don’t want TMI details of sexual play-by-play. Would you rather she share her explicit details with kink communities like FetLife or kinky friends, instead of processing them with you?

Is this sharing consensual on all sides, or is she oversharing/stepping on toes? Does Dude even know she tells you all this stuff? Does Dude consent to that? Even if Dude consents and is ok with Wife telling you TMI things about them, do you agree to hear it? They're your ears. What about the other way? Do you consent or not to Wife telling Dude about TMI sex details with you?

About the anxiety, are you dealing with something like “poly hell," even if this isn’t technically polyamory?

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Is the anxiety rooted in shaken trust? She had sexual contact outside the marriage before it was agreed upon. If this is how she’s going to act as a hinge — impulsive, “full speed ahead” — do you feel emotionally safe with her right now, or like you are trapped on a runaway roller coaster?

Do you feel physically safe? Did she use safer-sex practices with Dude — gloves, barriers, condoms, dental dams, etc.? Did she tell you before having sex with you again? Or did she share bare sex with him, and then shared bare sex with you, and only told you afterwards? That difference can matter a lot — between making a mistake while still respecting your consent and body health, versus violating your consent/body health.

If you and Wife haven't dated others in years, do you each need to refresh your sex ed before going off to date/share sex with others? Even though you're in your 50s/midlife, what would you do with an accidental pregnancy, if that's still possible on either side?

I wonder if you're thinking about going along with this because you are scared to say no. Like, "No, thanks. I don't want an open marriage at all," or "No, thanks. I don't want it like this, with your cheating affair partner still in the mix," or, "I am up for it, but not like this -- us just jumping in undereducated and clunky where we could hurt ourselves or others," or similar?

If this is going to be open, I think it has to be open on all sides. Even if you don't exercise your option to date/share sex with others, it's because you don't feel like it right now, and not because the option doesn't even exist for you.

You might consider slowing things down and getting more education, or working with a counselor who understands non-monogamy.

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Even if Wife doesn’t want to go, individual counseling could give you support while you sort out what you want and what you’re actually okay with.

Lastly, how do you want this transition to end? What does "ending well" look like to you? Do you and Wife agree on that shared vision? Is it a shared vision?

What are the dealbreakers? Are those clearly articulated and defined?

Are you prepared for all possible outcomes, including things not working out the way you hope — even down to you and wife breaking up?

Galagirl

 

[MeeraReed]

"Hotwifing" might be the more applicable term than cuckoldry. The cuckold kink involves the husband being aroused by the humiliation aspect of the wife being sexual with someone else, whereas with hotwifing, the husband is aroused by his wife's sexual activities, but without the humiliation.

Hotwifing is pretty common, and I'm sure there are resources on the internet, if this would be helpful for OP and his wife.

 

[dingedheart]

Funny, I posted a quote from an old thread where the slapping of said label was quite aggressive and unsolicited. It seems to have been removed because it’s embarrassing to both Tinwen and Mags, either because standards have now changed, or those are completely subjective depending on their moods.

Here’s the link:

https://polyamory.com/threads/lack-of-attention.78345/post-326769