Steve's ENM journey

[Evie]

As someone who was once Kaitlyn's age who got involved with an older couple, albeit in a different way, I just want to lift up the statement above that Kaitlyn is definitely too young to be dealing with this stuff.

Campground rules here, Steve, and Emma just left a mess.

 

[Tinwen]

So sorry this went so wrong. I would have expected better judgement from your wife. Also the fact that you were not aware of her reading your text... Bad, bad
I remember you being unclear on why Emma suggested opening up in the first place, I guess that's in the open now.
Usually we see similar dynamics gender reversed with men putting pressure on their wifes to get into swinging or similar lifestyle arrangements.
Emma has been supportive, hopefully she can continue to do so with boundaries in place.

 

[Stevek]

Thanks for your messages. We have always had access to each other's phones and I want that to continue for practical reasons, but once Emma knew that Kaitlyn and I were seeing each other, I assumed she would know that certain areas on my phone were off limits. Maybe it is on me for not setting an appropriate boundary. I am mad at Emma for making Kaitlyn an unwitting participant in her kink. Kaitlyn and I exchanged a lot of nudes, and it really doesn't reflect well on Emma to breach our privacy. I also said some things to Kaitlyn that might make Emma feel inferior (nothing serious, but stuff like that was the best sex I ever had, complimenting her body etc.). She most certainly read those things but never said anything. I want to be mad at her, but we are more focused on dealing with Joe and his vaping.

Emma and I will go for a walk and discuss this and what this whole thing means for our future. There is a chance that I might lose Kaitlyn, but I always knew that we would split. I just hope she was happy this past year or so. Kaitlyn sends me a good night text every night, but she didn't yesterday and has sent nothing today. I am trying to give Kaitlyn some space and deal with issues at home, but there is a decent chance that we might stop seeing each other.

I am glad Emma came clean about her kinks, but at the same time, why would she do that? She could have handled that way more delicately, and I know that she has the ability to do it in a way that wouldn't have blown up in our faces like this. It's like she was intentionally sabotaging my relationship with Kaitlyn.

 

[Stevek]

I am also wondering how Emma would react if you didn't want a blowjob upon returning home from Kaitlin's. I mean, it's quite common to need time to adjust/decompress/settle oneself when arriving home to one partner after having sex with another partner; many poly/enm people do that. Obviously she's turned on by the fact that you return home from having sex with Kaitlyn, but would she get all pissed off about it if you said no? I am just asking because there seems to be a strong element of using you in her dynamic with you. And I don't just mean the BJs, but the whole encouraging/pushing you to find someone to date, setting up that trip for the three of you, moving faster than you would have liked, and getting all buddy-buddy with Kaitlin. She seems to be somehow orchestrating everything for her own sake, so she can get off on it. I don't know, I could be wrong, but there's just something odd about it all. And then this breach of privacy!

I knew that she gets turned on after i had sex with Kaitlyn but the things she admitted to definitely gave me a pause. I didn't think she was this deep into her kink and the breach of privacy and subjecting Kaitlyn to her kink without her consent is definitely upsetting.

Now it's not the end of the world, and things like this can be remedied, but there need to be some ground rules, and I'd also say, more transparency on Emma's part about her motives. The fact that Kaitlyn still let you stay and have sex would indicate that she doesn't want to give up on her relationship with you, and I think that was a healthy move on her part to request that you shower before going home. It is self-protective. She probably won't want anything to do with Emma anymore, which is understandable.

I don't know. I have not heard anything from her since I left her place and I don't want to text her and put her in a spot where she feels compelled to reply.

 

[IndieSolo]

I am glad Emma came clean about her kinks, but at the same time, why would she do that?

Well, she did it because you told her to:

I think I mentioned sometime ago about my wife's cuckquean fetish. Kaitlyn doesn't know about this and I never mentioned anything to her. I told Emma that Kaitlyn should know about this, as hiding it from her is practically deceiving her.

However, you probably should have discussed boundaries in more detail when you told her that.

It seems there are a good deal of assumptions and not enough clear, direct communication between you.

 

[Evie]

"It's like she was intentionally sabotaging my relationship with Kaitlyn."

Or swept up in the thrill of the honesty.

But it's not about you right now, it's about caring for Kaitlyn as she processes this gross breach of trust.

Step up for her.

 

[Tinwen]

"It's like she was intentionally sabotaging my relationship with Kaitlyn."

Or swept up in the thrill of the honesty.

But it's not about you right now, it's about caring for Kaitlyn as she processes this gross breach of trust.

Step up for her.

Well, I agree she's in the more vulnarable position, but Steve is also processing a breach of trust....

Kaitlyn sends me a good night text every night, but she didn't yesterday and has sent nothing today. I am trying to give Kaitlyn some space and deal with issues at home, but there is a decent chance that we might stop seeing each other.

Maybe you could get in contact just enough to inquire if she wants more space or if she'd rather have your presence (and/or let her know that "giving her space" is what you're doing). I think it's the right idea, but you don't want it misread as a lack of care.

 

[Stevek]

Kaitlyn got in touch with me last night and told me that she is fine and that she still loves me. She is a bit shaken by the fact that there was an unwitting third member in our relationship. She told me that she is especially upset about the phone snooping, but she also read about my wife's kink, and it kind of put things in perspective.

She also texted my wife, telling her that she is not happy with what my wife had done. She told her that she was glad my wife agreed to "share" me, as she (Kaitlyn) thinks that I am an amazing partner, but their friendship now seems like an extension of my wife's kink. She told my wife that she needs some space from her and asked if it is okay if she continues seeing me. She said that this is temporary, that she still respects my wife a lot, and that she is really glad they got to know each other.

Kaitlyn suggested that if we were to continue seeing each other, she wants me to change my passcode, and she asked me to talk to Emma and set some strong boundaries.

My wife and I also put up a united front and spoke to my son about vaping. I didnt really wanna punish him but my wife insisted that he has to face some consequences for his actions. No video games during the summer break and he has to talk to a doctor friend of ours regarding the dangers of smoking and vaping. We are gonna go for a week long camping trip and my wife wants me to observe that he is not having any cravings

 

[IndieSolo]

I'm impressed by how Kaitlyn is standing up for herself. Was this a conversation on the phone or in an email? I'm also curious about how Emma will react. But how do you feel regarding what Kaitlyn told you and what she texted to Emma?

Regarding the phone snooping, you have said you prefer that you and Emma have access to each other's phones, so I'm wondering if you will consider Kaitlyn's suggestion that you change your password.

I must say, during the entire twelve years of my marriage, my ex and I never had each other's passwords to our phones, computer logins, or anything else. I never looked in his wallet and he would never go into my handbag even if I asked him to (he'd bring it to me instead). So I cannot even imagine not having that kind of privacy in a marriage, but I assume you have good reasons for shared access to your phones, though it's hard for me to grasp why it would be necessary.

 

[Tinwen]

I just realized my partner does have my phone access (it's just practical if he wants to lend the phone to look up a train connection or take a photo or such, he doesn't have a smartphones himself). Now I wonder if he'd been ever tempted to go through my messages.
Anyway, Emma did, so losing phone access seems like a natural consequence

 

[Evie]

I have Adam's passcode and vice versa but only for the most dire of circumstances since we don't have all the same friends/contacts and we'll need to know who to call if the other can't. But that list could be put on paper, too. We don't access each other's phones, it was rule 1 when we moved in together.

As for son, how about the financial approach, too? Make him put the cost of a vape into an investment account every allowance/paycheck. That could help him get interested and competent at investing at a young age. Get an app that enables you to buy some shares and get him to pick. Or at the very least, a savings account.

 

[Stevek]

I must say, during the entire twelve years of my marriage, my ex and I never had each other's passwords to our phones, computer logins, or anything else. I never looked in his wallet and he would never go into my handbag even if I asked him to (he'd bring it to me instead). So I cannot even imagine not having that kind of privacy in a marriage, but I assume you have good reasons for shared access to your phones, though it's hard for me to grasp why it would be necessary.

I am trying to remember when was the last time I went through my wife's phone, if ever. I had the same pass code since I met her lol. Maybe we needed that before but not now. I already told her that I am changing my pass code and she is fine with it.

I'm impressed by how Kaitlyn is standing up for herself. Was this a conversation on the phone or in an email? I'm also curious about how Emma will react. But how do you feel regarding what Kaitlyn told you and what she texted to Emma?

through very long text messages. She is just agreeing to everything and I feel shitty. I am wondering if she is agreeing to everything like me changing my phone's passcode, allowing me to continue seeing Kaitlyn and giving her some space because she is trying to atone for the phone snooping sins.

As for son, how about the financial approach, too? Make him put the cost of a vape into an investment account every allowance/paycheck. That could help him get interested and competent at investing at a young age. Get an app that enables you to buy some shares and get him to pick. Or at the very least, a savings account.

Thanks. I don't want to gamify financial literacy but you have some good ideas here. We will look into this further.

 

[Tinwen]

through very long text messages. She is just agreeing to everything and I feel shitty. I am wondering if she is agreeing to everything like me changing my phone's passcode, allowing me to continue seeing Kaitlyn and giving her some space because she is trying to atone for the phone snooping sins.

Well, these are all reasonable requests/consequences. It doesn't read like punishment, just basic damage repair.

You might need to have a more thorough conversation later about how her kink plays into the polyamorous dynamics (and how to keep her satisfied without privacy breaches). Seems tricky! (I don't even have anything clever to say about that, lol.)
Important to understand, but not within days.

 

[IndieSolo]

She is just agreeing to everything and I feel shitty.

I would think you'd be feeling relieved and happy!

Why do you feel shitty? Do you expect something to backfire, like waiting for the other shoe to drop (so to speak)? Do you not think that Emma needs to take responsibility and actively work at repairing the damage she had caused?

You said upthread that you don't expect your relationship with Kaitlyn to last, so is there some guilt you feel about having Kaitlyn in your life that makes you almost hoping Emma would want it to end?

Hmm. I hope you can unravel the threads and come to terms with why you feel shitty so you can let go of that.

 

[Evie]

I wouldn't call it gamifying financial literacy if you're deducting *his* money from any allowance he gets and getting him to invest it.

 

[Stevek]

Why do you feel shitty? Do you expect something to backfire, like waiting for the other shoe to drop (so to speak)? Do you not think that Emma needs to take responsibility and actively work at repairing the damage she had caused?

I am way too shitty with words and unable to explain my emotions clearly. I thought she would put up some fight when I suggested that I am going to change the passcode. She literally knew mine since our third or fourth date. I know she feels sorry but maybe I am just looking for a fight. Sorry everyone, I am not thinking clearly.

And then there is this whole lying to my kids thing. I was disciplining my Son just a couple of days ago for lying to me about vaping and here I am being the biggest hypocrite in New Jersey. Lots of complicated feelings

 

[Tinwen]

Looks like this is a time when you could use some real-life support and/or some alone time to sort your feelings. I assume you don't have close enough friends to know about your ENM you could lean on? In that case posting here is great, but a few therapy sessions might be worth it too. Also some people prefer to just do long hikes on their own (or similar) to sort their thoughts and feelings.

 

[IndieSolo]

I also think therapy with a poly/enm-friendly therapist would be very good for you. You are so very hard on yourself.

 

[Tinwen]

... to be clear, I think you are a very stable person in general, not someone in need of long-term therapeutic care, but I absolutely hate the thought of you dealing with this crisis alone.

 

[YesThisIsDog242]

Kaitlyn got in touch with me last night and told me that she is fine and that she still loves me. She is a bit shaken by the fact that there was an unwitting third member in our relationship. She told me that she is especially upset about the phone snooping, but she also read about my wife's kink, and it kind of put things in perspective.

She also texted my wife, telling her that she is not happy with what my wife had done. She told her that she was glad my wife agreed to "share" me, as she (Kaitlyn) thinks that I am an amazing partner, but their friendship now seems like an extension of my wife's kink. She told my wife that she needs some space from her and asked if it is okay if she continues seeing me. She said that this is temporary, that she still respects my wife a lot, and that she is really glad they got to know each other.

Kaitlyn suggested that if we were to continue seeing each other, she wants me to change my passcode, and she asked me to talk to Emma and set some strong boundaries.

My wife and I also put up a united front and spoke to my son about vaping. I didnt really wanna punish him but my wife insisted that he has to face some consequences for his actions. No video games during the summer break and he has to talk to a doctor friend of ours regarding the dangers of smoking and vaping. We are gonna go for a week long camping trip and my wife wants me to observe that he is not having any cravings

I respect you guys being willing to talk to your son about vaping and talking to your doctor friend is a creative idea.

Have y'all made sure to try to get a better understanding of what led your son to having a vape? It would be good to get curious about what he gets out of the vape. You said he usually excels in school, so he might be trying to cope with the stress of being a good student. Or he might be feeling social pressure to fit in/be cool. It's best to get curious with him while being mindful of not interrogating him.

This is likely not a moral failing of your son, but something more personal or systemic within his school. Your son vaping could be an important sign that he needs more emotional support from you guys than he usually lets on.

It might be worth talking to your son's school about the presence of drugs within the school if your son gives you any inkling that he's not the only one doing it.