What does a mono husband do about his daughter's discovery of her mother's polyamory?

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BDSM isn't what has damaged your wife. Your wife's poor (even perhaps reprehensible) choices and significant negligence are what has damaged your wife.

As others have suggested, maybe there was abuse in the relationship with the bf, maybe not. The specific acts you have described are potentially within the realm of safe, sane, consensual BDSM. Heck, I know several online stores, and a couple brick-and-mortar shops, where one can easily purchase the hook you describe. I can think of three different types off the top of my head, even. I wouldn't mind having one.

I'll grant, calling someone asswhore or such things isn't my cup of tea, but some folks like it.

I don't advise showing photos to the mother, not because there's anything wrong with BDSM (there isn't), but because it would be hurtful and shaming to show ANY photo of your wife in ANY sex act to her mother. Do you think blowjobs are sick and wrong? When your daughter is an adult, will she want her husband showing YOU a photo of her giving him a blowjob?

Shaming someone who is suicidally depressed is a Very Bad Idea, if you want them not to commit suicide.

Of course, I think your wife was quite stupid to allow such photos to be taken, anyway, and even more stupid to keep them around, and, of course, distressingly negligent in leaving access to them.

I think it would behoove you to read and re-read NeonKaos's recent posts, as objectively as you can. There's some harsh truth for you.
 
NeonKaos, I didn't mean you changed your position. I was talking in general. Yes, the thread started out as something else, and then things melted down. Trying not to fixate on the BDSM aspect, but it is a component of this. You may be right. My head may be up my ass. Not going to argue that too hard. I'll try to work on that

I'll pay for whatever I have to. I was just saying, should I feel obligated? And how is it wrong for saying "his slave, his bill," "you broke it, you bought it"?

I thought of my marriage vows before I got married. I just thought of them again after our marriage had shifted. Not unreasonable, I don't think.
And it's not unreasonable to think about now either. I didn't ask you that to upset you, just didn't remember who said it.

Agree 100% my marriage is not poly. It's dysfunctional. You're right on the mark.

I'm not looking for family crisis intervention here. If that is the impression, I apologize.
 
Oh, and them mentioning or talking about you in the emails? Deplorable, perhaps. Definitely tasteless, unkind, thoughtless, cruel... But it's not the fault of BDSM that they did that. It's the fault of your wife and her bf, and their shitty judgement. Don't blame BDSM. Blame your wife, and blame her bf.

I agree that this ISN'T polyamory, this is DYSFUNCTION. Stop fixating on what they did in bed. Focus on how they've wronged you, and the damage done to your wife's relationship with her daughter. There's been plenty enough of it.
 
ViableAlterantive

I'm unsure as to how you think I'm blaming BDSM for any of this. I think I said repeatedly I blame them for being stupid. Go back. I know I did. I know I said, "Have fun. Do what you want to yourself and/or partners. I don't care." I'm not telling anyone here what not to do, except perhaps suggesting not to expose their children to it.

I have a problem with two individuals, not the kink community. And let's not forget this was dropped on me. I didn't go looking for a moral discussion on kink. If I had wanted to, I could have done that months ago.

What is that hook thing called? Should be fun to see who gets picked to go buy it, and who will refuse. :D

Thanks, got to go,
D
 
Hey, what's up with the "paying" comments? Marriage is a legal partnership, not ownership (regardless of the role-playing your wife was doing), and the money is 50/50. So anything "you" pay for (including her physical therapy, or psychiatric treatment, regardless of what caused her need) was still coming out of a marital pool of money/benefits. Was it not? I mean, was her name not on the checking account? Did you have some big prenuptial agreement, stating that all the money was to remain separate?

Sorry to be defensive here, but the old views of "the man is the one who makes the money," well, those are just old-fashioned and sexist, and dinged, you strike me as slightly more enlightened than that.
 
dingedheart said:
I'm unsure as to how you think I'm blaming BDSM for any of this. I think I said repeatedly I blame them for being stupid. Go back. I know I did. I know I said have fun do what you want to yourself and or partners....don't care... I'm not telling anyone here what not to do except perhaps suggesting not to expose their children to it.

I have a problem with two individuals not the kink community. And let's not forget this was dropped on me I didn't go looking for a moral discussion on kink. If I had wanted to, I could have done that months ago.

What is that hook thing called? Should be fun to see who gets picked to go buy it, and will refuse.:D
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Dinged, everything you say, up until a certain point, seems to indicate that you genuinely trying not to judge her for the BDSM she was involved with. And I feel hopeful for you UNTIL you say, "What is that hook thing called? Should be fun to see who gets picked to go buy it, and who will refuse," which is very vindictive, scary and totally as far away from trying to having an open mind as you possibly could be. I can almost hear an evil laugh coming out of your remarks like that. It is so-o-o not funny.

I still say your anger is misplaced. I do understand it, though, because this is a heartbreaking situation, but I hope that your anger doesn't eat away at you. After focusing on your kids, it seems you are preoccupied with what they did in the bedroom. Hopefully that need will subside and you will be able to look more at how she mismanaged her relationship with you and the family.

All these venomous feelings you have toward her might come back to bite you in the ass, as resentments usually do. Have you spoken to your therapist to help you deal with this? Because from what you write here, you're trying to handle things for your daughter and son, but not quite helping yourself to heal from it.

I know it's beyond difficult for anyone of us to imagine what you and your family are going through, and I do have compassion for that. I also hope you understand that this kind of talk about revenge and shaming your wife is quite indicative of how much you are hurting. However, you've been told she is suicidal! How will you feel if she takes her own life?

It seems that everyone is hurting here. I hope you can try to separate the issues to be able to see more clearly the person underneath her behaviors.
 
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I really think that, to a large degree, this conversation is lacking communication.

Dinged, what I hear you saying is that you are emotionally spent, trying to hold everything together to deal with the kids, who are emotionally traumatized (at least one of them), and minimize damages for them. You are struggling to find the energy to deal with the job of helping your wife, who created this disaster. I think that's perfectly reasonable. Love/marriage or not, it's not your job to prioritize her over the kids, imho. The kids are your first responsibility, and you've taken that on admirably.

BDSM activities can be healthy. Abuse can look a lot like BDSM activities. Unfortunately, only the "players" know for sure. As you've said several times, you really have no idea. Maybe she was a willing participant. Maybe she got herself into something she didn't know was going to fuck her up.

I don't know, either. But I think you are doing the right thing by venting your emotions somewhere the kids aren't, and by prioritizing their care.

As for dealing with the kids, you didn't ask me, but my 2 cents, based on experience:

I have a 19-yo girl. Her father and I split when she was a baby.
15-yo stepson. His mom is a crack addict and alcoholic (in recovery at the moment, April 9th will be 1 year).
11-yo son with Maca. He's a dream. His parents are poly and into some BDSM.
3-yo daughter with Maca (bio child of GG). Her parents are poly and into BDSM.
GG is my slave.

I don't keep photos of anything questionable (including "vanilla" sex). Maca and GG do. They have their own laptops that they keep that shit on. It's not in "internetville." But if my kids encountered anything at all in photos, words or actions (they have walked in on me during sex with one or the other guy), I would deal honestly and up front with them, explain what was going on to the degree that they inquired and reassure them that it in no way impacts them or their safety.

You can't do that, because you hadn't a clue what the hell was going on. If I were stuck explaining to my kids something I didn't know, I'd be stuck as much as you are with, "I love you, I don't know, I'm sorry you're hurting," because that would be the honest answer.

As for keeping secrets from my kids. I don't do it. I was upfront with my daughter that the reason she couldn't see her dad, except supervised with her grandparents or me, was because he was irresponsible, drinking and partying, and it was dangerous for her. That I loved her, I knew she loved him, and that was okay, but it was not okay for me to be neglectful by allowing her to be in situations I knew were dangerous, even with someone she loved.

I was upfront with my stepson the same way-- your mom is on crack (skipped the whore part, he figured that out on his own) and she's a drunk. She drives while she's drunk/high. That's dangerous, and it's not reasonable to allow you to be in that environment. But when she went to rehab, I was the only one who stood by her and supported her. She made a choice to change and I was all for it, for his sake. But I never glossed over the bs before that, including being up front with him that she tried to kidnap my daughter twice, that she was filing bogus paperwork accusing me of bs I wasn't doing, that she was exposing him to people who were abusive, etc.

My younger son knows all of the above about his siblings' other parents. He also knows their other parents.

All of the kids have been told honestly and openly everything about our situation, dynamics, etc., except the details of our sex lives, which they have no interest in. They are aware that I am sexually involved with both men, but details are just gross to them, which is fine by me. But if one of them asked me "Do you do xyz?" I'd answer honestly.

I don't believe that keeping the truth from a child is a good idea, especially when that truth is that their other parent is not okay. It's possible to be honest about that, and still be compassionate and supportive of them loving that parent. We all fail to meet perfection. Children do not need to be allowed to believe that their parents are perfect. They can learn that it's okay to love their parent and that their parent REALLY FUCKED UP.

If it were me, I certainly wouldn't badmouth my wife, but I wouldn't undermine my daughter's self-esteem by telling her it was all okay either, regardless of whether or not the BDSM was consensual. It was not okay that she let it get to the point where her child had access to that shit.

I have participated in activities that were painful (not like you describe, and I do not do humiliation), but there is no way I would do that or record it in a fashion that there was a risk of my kids accessing it. Not done when they are here, not recorded in writing, pictures, or videos. Not acceptable.

When you have kids, you lose privileges. It's part of the responsibility of being a parent.

Okay, that was a rant from hell. Sorry, D. I'm still thinking of you!
 
Carma, at some point dinged said that she makes good money, but isn't interested in spending it on anything. He pays for everything, even though he has asked for there to be more of a balance. Something along those lines... that was a while back. I don't know if I got that right, just going by memory.

This is what I am getting from this thread:

  • she hurt her child when the pictures she was in were carelessly put away on the computer.
  • she hurt her child and dinged doesn't know what to do
  • She is a dirty cumslut and he is a fuckdog (or something along those lines, anyway... my personal fav was asswhore btw :D)
  • They have not said anything useful
  • She is a mess and hiding 200 miles away
  • dinged is doing his best to put the pieces back together, but doesn't know the first thing about BDSM and doesn't care to
  • There is a "team" on board to sort this out legally
I still haven't seen any posts on whether or not this was BDSM or abuse, whether or not any progression to understanding BDSM has been made in order to reassure the kids, or what the bf has to say for himself. Have you asked him or her their version of what went on?

If this were me, I would ask that first, judge later. Finding out the truth would be my first place to start if I wanted to console my child. How to console a child that doesn't understand something I also don't understand would make me want to at least try to understand so that I might be able to offer a constructive answer as to "why" those pictures occurred. I would want to do this so as to move on from the content of the pictures, so as to help my daughter heal.

This being said, I have no emotional attachment to your wife, dinged. I have no feelings for her. I can see where it would be hard to separate one's feelings from what has happened. Not only has this happened, but I would think you feel betrayed, extremely hurt and deceived as to who your wife really is. I think I would have many questions for her, and be in such a place of anger I would find it near impossible to ask them. I can see why coming on here and calling her names would be a step towards asking those questions.

I am wondering if and when you will start researching why a person would want a hook in their ass, and names written on them. I would want to know what others in the kink community have said to their kids, and what others have done about such "accidents." I gave you a link. Others have told you a bit about BDSM. It might really help to pay attention at some point to what it's about. It might be helpful to see if that is what was going on, and not an abuse situation.
 
Kudos

I just want let LR know that I totally agree with how you explained everything.

I have been coming back to read all these posts and see what's new.

dinged, your whole story breaks my heart. It really does.

To the rest of you, I do understand some of the revenge factor. At least for me, I can't find peace in myself if I don't get to, at least once, say what I truly feel about something. Do I carry on like a raging moron? No, but I need the sarcastic revenge to break the ice of my anger to even begin the healing/empathy/sympathy phase. That's just me. I am not sure that's how he is.

Like him and that hook... see, I laughed when I read that, because if I was in his shoes, I would buy one and mail it to her (not right away, as she is in no state emotionally, but soon), and say something like, "So when do I get to use this on you?" Followed by the select words he had spewed. And then, a week later, send a note saying, "Okay, my anger is done. I would really like to figure this out. For better or worse, we have kids together. We need to come to common ground." And then my disclaimer would be, "I am sincerely sorry for the sarcastic letter a week before, but I needed to release my anger, and I since you were the one I was angry at, you got it."

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am sick. But that's truly how I deal with anger. Never do I get physical, nor will I ever!
 
Hello to all.

I had the longest night sleep yet. Perhaps my head is out of my ass. I can only hope.

Carma, we have separate checking accounts. I bought the house, paid cash. She pays some utilities and some other stuff. Can't really remember now.

It just seems I'm saddled with the whole fucking mess. Maybe I should offer to pay for his counseling, too. I'm sure he feels a little guilty.

"You broke it, you fix it" is a common phrase used in my shop. Seems appropriate in this, as well.

NYCindie, I want to purchase that hook thing. That is why I ask what it's called. I really don't feel comfortable enough to do that in person today. I am going request one of my employees do it for me. I would never ask certain people here in the office. On the other hand, there are few guys here in which it may turn into an interesting conversation. I'm guessing there may be resistance, or a refusal. I was really thinking of their reactions to my request, that's all.

I have an appointment for myself on the 28th, which was scheduled in the early aftermath. The therapist was out of town. I got the earliest available appointment.

I have not been told she was suicidal by anyone other than her, the day after the meltdown. She may have said similar things that night, as well. I told her at the time, "That would only compound the problem. I think you have been selfish enough. Start thinking of your kids."

Right now, if she walked up to me and told me she was going to kill herself, I'd have a hard time believing it at face value. The trust in her words is gone.

LovingRadiance, thanks for the input. I am unsure what you mean by the conversation is lacking in communication. I think everyone has communicated their thoughts quite clearly. It's true, people have given me links to look into for better understanding, and I have not. I think I've carried enough of the load right now. Too painful... too tired.

As you said, if one of your kids discovered pictures of you, or walked in while you were hanging from the ceiling, you would be the one to talk with that child, not your father or some non-involved person cleaning up after you. That seems responsible. I believe you when you say it. I don't have that.

You gave the impression you're not into these types of photos by twice referring to such images as "shit." I'm again surprised. Don't know why. I just am.

Redpepper, your bullet points summarize things very nicely. I could add several more, but I think you've given the general picture.

The question you asked about abuse, is that the same as when you asked if she was a owned slave? Are these related? I asked then... what difference would/should that make to me?

I had thought originally that she would resurface after a week or so. I planned to sit both of them down in my conference room, with all the materials, and have a discussion. That's why I want the hook, as a centerpiece for the table.

I feel I have shouldered this entire mess. Now you're saying "Ask before you judge." Well, how about they offer, so I don't have to draw my own conclusions?

Most of my "why" questions have been answered with, "I don't know. You need to ask her." Which is true.

The big topic in our daughter's sessions, from what I've been told, is the mental torture from the discovery of the material, and her final breakdown in telling me, and then the surrounding aftermath.

And yes, "accidents" are not uncommon, and they have told me several general stories. Mostly older kids walking into live situations, one kid running into their parents at some group event/party. Injuries are not uncommon, either.

angelsndevils, thanks. You're on the right track, except I wasn't planning to send it, just display it. And perhaps inquire as to how he was planning to make me his bitch. Show me. Something like that.

I think he believes all emails and photos were deleted early on. He/they don't know what I have.

So yeah, still a little angry with fuckboy. I don't see that going away. You won't find one thing, one email, one text where I've attacked him. I've said here I got a bad vibe. Made a joke about his name, but that's it. If I did, please correct me. I don't remember.

Thank you all,
D
 
I asked if her actions were consensual. Did she agree to all parts of what appeared to be going on in those pictures, or was he forcing and manipulating her? Abuse is not part of BDSM. There are big differences, at least there should be. It could mean a big difference to how your meeting goes to understand this.
 
Your desire to buy the hook and have it on the table when you confront them creeps me out and makes me feel a bit ill. This is an honest reporting of my gut reaction, though I am not yet able to articulate exactly why. Partly due to time constraints, and partly due to the fact that just thinking about it makes me queasy, so I am unable to focus on divining the reasons behind my reaction. There is definitely something wrong with this, though.
 
Penny said:
Your desire to buy the hook and have it on the table when you confront them creeps me out and makes me feel a bit ill. This is an honest reporting of my gut reaction... just thinking about it makes me queasy. There is definitely something wrong with this.
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I think the reason it also creeps me out is that it is so vindictive and full of hate.

Who are you, dingedheart, referring to when you say you're planning on sitting "them" down with it there? If it's your daughter and your wife, that is just plain mean. It's bad enough for her to have to have seen the pictures at 12. Do you really want her to be in the same room with the instrument, and get even more information about what that must have been like, to see it and be able to touch it? That just seems cruel.

Even if it's your wife and her boyfriend, it's still mean and vindictive. Why have it there?
 
Ummm

His reference of "them" is wife and her master ("fuckboy"). That's what I got out of the replies.

I don't find it wrong nor right. We all deal with anger/hurt/jealous feelings differently.

Perfect example-- I got robbed while working the third shift at a gas station. He came in and demanded money. Okay, I gave it to him. I then laughed and told him, "Please don't leave any candy behind." Could I have been shot? Sure, but I had to deal with the situation how I saw fit for me.

I believe sometimes you need to be vindictive, otherwise your just a welcome mat for more emotional abuse!
 
Good lord, dinged, it's just a toy for anal sexual pleasure. And you're gonna get your employee to go buy one? They're available on the internet. Just google it, man.

Amazon, even.

/Kink-Industries-The-Anal-Hook/dp/B003AYTI4W
 
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I bet my boyfriend would like one of those, but he ain't using it on me.

Look folks, so far three out of five moderators agree that this thread is not about poly, so wrap things up 'cause I'm gonna close it tomorrow, unless someone else does so before then.
 
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angelsndevils said:
I just want let LR know, I totally agree with how you explained everything.
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Thank you, angelsndevils. I too find that sometimes I just have to get it out of my system. I can't say I would necessarily say it to her, but I sure as hell would be on here spewing the venom out. (Hell, I have for lesser things.)

Shock is a terrible thing. It's one thing if you are looking at something from an outside perspective, especially if it's something you are aware of and educated in. Like a cop who specializes in rape cases, it's not that they don't care, but they become jaded because they see it every day at work.

On the other hand, in addition to the problem at hand, when you add shock, that really can screw a person up. Add to that the fact that not only is dinged shocked, but his daughter was shocked, and she's a child.

There are just so many nuances here.

It seems purposeless to press dinged when he's obviously taking active steps forward already. To presume that he's going to stop suddenly, when he has been moving forward actively from the beginning, well, that seems a bit premature. He keeps asking for information and then returning to get more. He seems to be pretty on top of his game, so to speak, even through all of the pain, horror, shock, fear, concern. If he needs to say what a fuck-up he thinks his wife is, I think that is perfectly reasonable.
 
Had the longest night sleep yet. Perhaps my head is out of my ass. I can only hope.
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Excellent! Each little bit more is a step in the right direction. I thought of you yesterday when I got an email (from a newsletter I subscribe to) that was talking about how to get to sleep. They suggested running and some other things. I can't recall the specifics, just that it made me think of you.
Have an appointment for myself on the 28th.
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That's good too. One day at a time. Sometimes it seems like forever, but it's all we can do.
The trust in her words is gone.
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I can only imagine. What a disaster. I can't help but wonder what the hell she's thinking. My major is psych. It's not a personal wonder, it's from the curiosity of work that I wonder.
I unsure what you mean by the conversation is lacking in communication.
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What I meant is that it appears that people are presuming what you say here is "the whole kit and kaboodle," and are expressing concern over how your words here might transfer to actions in real life. I don't think that they are receiving precisely what you are trying to express. Not judging. God knows it happens all the time to me. My impression is that you are busting your ass to clean up a disaster that you didn't create, and not that you are simply running around manic, acting like an ass.
People have given me links to look into for better understanding, and I have not. I think I've carried enough of the load right now. Too painful... too tired.
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Makes perfect sense to me. Someday, if you reread this thread when your life isn't turned upside down, you will see the post I made with more information. In it, I said it was for later, when you weren't in an uproar. I totally get it. You can't do everything at one time, even if you wanted to.
You said if one of your kids discovered pictures of you, or walked while you hanging form the ceiling you would be the one to talk with that child, not your father or some uninvolved person cleaning up after you. That seems responsible. I believe you. I don't have that.
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dinged, I can't even imagine the level of irresponsibility your wife has shown to your kids. I can't wrap my mind around it, not even for 5 seconds. I don't allow myself to get into situations where that shit would happen. But if anything that bothered or left my kids in question came up, you're damn right, if I have the balls to participate in the activity, I have the responsibility to ensure that it doesn't destroy my kids. I'd be right there at their side.
You gave the impression you not into these types of photos by twice referring to such images as "shit." I'm surprised.
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Oh honey, you really should take time to check out my blog. I'm not into that shit. Not in the pictures OR the activities. There is a BDSM thread on this site that I started. I think it pretty clearly stresses just precisely how not into that shit I am. I can respect anyone doing whatever they want in their own life. But in my life, hell no. I have a slave, and there is no way I would treat him that way. He obeys me, but he wouldn't have agreed to being my slave and obeying me if I were the kind of person who would degrade or demean another.

If you are curious, PM me. It doesn't fit this thread, really. I've a limited interest in BDSM, specifically in D/s. I'm not into S/M or anything beyond light bondage.
I wasn't planning to send it, just display it and perhaps inquire as to how he was planning to make me his bitch...
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I'm boggled by his cockiness. I think that's a hell of a lot calmer than I would be. No, I know it is. If someone said they were going to make me their bitch, I'd be violent. shrug.

I think you're doing a great job. I'm sorry you have to, but I'm glad there are people out there who are willing to make that effort for their kids.
 
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