KT's Blog

[SNeacail]

I disagree - in our case. It's because of MG's presence that my needs are being neglected. My needs were being filled before her being in his life - that's the exact problem. It is her presence that has caused 2rings to neglect my needs in our marriage. AND conversely - MG's presence in his life is causing me to not be able to fulfill his needs. I can't speak for him - but before MG, I think I was filling his needs. If I wasn't - he never let it be known. The problems in our marriage are based on each of us having different needs now that MG is present.

I disagree. It is more likely that his inability to deal with YOUR reactions to MG in your lives that has caused him to neglect your needs. Most people don't know how to deal with severe emotional mood swings and when once they have made efforts and failed to make the situation better, they will start pulling away out of self preservation.

I have seen this in my own marriage (he has told me straight out) and others. It also is not limited to "another woman" or romantic relationships. I have watched my husband find a passion in certain volunteer orgainizations and hobbies. I would feel just as neglected and the more emotional and depressed I got the more he would pull away and burry himself in his activities.

I could argue the same thing, that before my needs were being met and so were his, so I thought. The truth is his weren't, but it wasn't until he started to get involved that he realized that there was something truly missing. This was a need that no matter how much he loved me I couldn't fill. It took me a long time to come to terms with this and it was a struggle to find a balance, mostly because I didn't understand what was really going on and he has a tendancy to over extend himself. Now, I am comfortable saying "you are neglecting me and the family... please find some place to cut back", he actually listens and takes steps to rectify the situation. It's not my place to say where he needs to cut back, just to tell him what I need (attention, time, physical contact, help with chores, etc).

You mentioned that you took the love languages test. Does he know what yours are? Do you know what his are? For 19 years I had no idea that I needed to touch my husband for him to feel loved. He said he "liked" me to touch him, but in my mind that resonated completely differently than the reality. I'm an act of service person and he never understood why I would pull away from him when he blew off my request for help or would want me to "just ignore it". So for years he would try to feel loved by getting me to touch him by blowing off what made me feel loved and I'm sure the exact opposite is true as well. This caused some nasty resentments but they were also the easiest and quickest to rectify.

 

[KatTails]

Kat, I forget - are you and 2rings in counseling together? I ask because hope that he isn't just waiting around for you to "fix" things and find your own way, if he isn't also doing whatever work he needs to do on the marriage and helping your relationship to heal.

He has (reluctantly) agreed to go to marriage counseling with me - and I'm calling today for an appointment. He is reluctant because he doesn't feel optimistic that it will help, based on previous counseling we've receives. Things are different now than they were then - we are now in crisis of getting divorced. Before - we were figuring out polyamory and all the emotions associated with it. Obviously emotions are still raw - but time is up. We either fix us now - or end us.

He is waiting around for me to "fix" myself as he doesn't think he needs to change. Yes - that is a problem. But it's something that we will talk about in counseling. There are things we both need to change in order to save our marriage. I think it's easier for him to put all the blame on me though. I definitely have issues, problems, emotions etc that I need to work on - (I whole-heartedly admit that) - but so does he.

I'm not going to go into detail here - but there are things, more non-poly related than poly related, that he needs to work on. There are facets of his personality that only certain people get to see, and I don't think MG is one. (and please, MG, I'm not going to discuss that comment further on here - it's something him and I will talk about in counseling. If he chooses to share that with you afterwards, that's up to him. But I won't talk about it here out of respect for him.)

No matter how codependent you may have become (I say that based on stuff you previously shared), it did not happen in a vacuum. Whatever one spouse does, the other allows. It's easy to step back and point the finger at you, but do not doubt that he contributed just as much to the state your relationship is in.

I agree.

This does not mean that you don't still have to continue working on YOU. However, it will just crash and burn if everything is laid upon your head and he is only investing in his relationship with MG and not the one he has with you. It sounds like he has compassion for you and is not being mean, but what is he doing to understand his role in all this and how he can support the marriage and his relationship to you and your family?

Oh - I have A LOT of work to do! No doubt. But I am hoping the marriage counselor can help him see the role he has played and can help us work together to pick up the pieces of our marriage.

In addition to marriage counseling - I am continuing to see my therapist weekly. I would like him to see one individually - but won't push it.

 

[SNeacail]

He is waiting around for me to "fix" myself as he doesn't think he needs to change. Yes - that is a problem. But it's something that we will talk about in counseling. There are things we both need to change in order to save our marriage. I think it's easier for him to put all the blame on me though. I definitely have issues, problems, emotions etc that I need to work on - (I whole-heartedly admit that) - but so does he.

I hope this will help you guys. I felt the same way when we started and having a third party bring things to the forefront helped tremendously. It also helped me not feel like I was constantly being attacked for "not just accepting that's the way he is". Not saying I didn't have my own shit to work on, I did/do, but there were things that I have tried to say for years and was blown off as just being an emotional bitch.

 

[KatTails]

I disagree. It is more likely that his inability to deal with YOUR reactions to MG in your lives that has caused him to neglect your needs. Most people don't know how to deal with severe emotional mood swings and when once they have made efforts and failed to make the situation better, they will start pulling away out of self preservation.

I love when people disagree with me - because it forces me to think in a different way - so thank you.

I do agree with you. The counselor we used to see always used to use the analogy of two children: a good, happy, well behaved child and a whiny, misbehaved, temper-tantrum throwing child and which kid would the parent want to spend more time with. She encouraged me to be the happy, well behaved child and to let MG be the other. However - the emotions I was going through because of the changing of our marriage were too raw and strong to do that. Instead - with no intention - I became the whiny, temper-tantrum throwing child whom the "parent" tried to calm and placate but then gave up and instead criticized, ignored, berated, neglected. He is a "fix-it" guy and he couldn't "fix" me - despite his efforts. And yes - for his self-preservation - he gave up trying.

I have watched my husband find a passion in certain volunteer orgainizations and hobbies. I would feel just as neglected and the more emotional and depressed I got the more he would pull away and burry himself in his activities. Now, I am comfortable saying "you are neglecting me and the family... please find some place to cut back", he actually listens and takes steps to rectify the situation. It's not my place to say where he needs to cut back, just to tell him what I need (attention, time, physical contact, help with chores, etc).

The only thing he can cut back from, or rearrange the time spent with is MG - which therein lies the problem. We work opposite shifts so time was limited before MG - and now it's even more limited. That is a major source of our arguments.

You mentioned that you took the love languages test. Does he know what yours are? Do you know what his are?

No - we've never talked about that and I never thought to bring it up. Maybe we should. . .

I hope this will help you guys. I felt the same way when we started and having a third party bring things to the forefront helped tremendously. It also helped me not feel like I was constantly being attacked for "not just accepting that's the way he is". Not saying I didn't have my own shit to work on, I did/do, but there were things that I have tried to say for years and was blown off as just being an emotional bitch.

Yes - this is very much how I feel and I too hope this helps us!

Thanks!

 

[LovingRadiance]

I disagree - in our case. It's because of MG's presence that my needs are being neglected. My needs were being filled before her being in his life - that's the exact problem. It is her presence that has caused 2rings to neglect my needs in our marriage. AND conversely - MG's presence in his life is causing me to not be able to fulfill his needs. I can't speak for him - but before MG, I think I was filling his needs. If I wasn't - he never let it be known. The problems in our marriage are based on each of us having different needs now that MG is present.

I understand why you say you disagree.. just follow this for a second.
He COULD have ANY PERSON in his life-and not choose to neglect you. It's his choice to choose to neglect you because MG is in his life.
That would be my point. The issue isn't that she is or is not there-the point is how he chooses to deal with her being there.
Vice versa as well.

Many people manage to have more than one lover and NOT neglect either lover. So-it can be done, even in highly bonded situations and in situations where one person is mono and attached only to their primary.

HOWEVER, it does take effort and finesse.

If there is neglect, it's not because MG exists in the situation, it's because of how her existence is being handled by one or more of you.

It can't go both ways. I'm supposed to understand the truth that he can love two women and that one can't replace the other - but - 2rings can't accept the truth of what I'm experiencing because he's never been in my shoes - yet I'm criticized for having those feelings.

Actually, to play on your words, it should go both ways. He should be sensitive to your feelings, you should be sensitive to his feelings. You both should be working to find a way to meet BOTH his needs and your needs that doesn't require one or the other of you to be the one who is meeting all the needs of the other person.

I don't think I've ever waivered from that stance...
I know others have, but I don't think I have...

 

[LovingRadiance]

It is more likely that his inability to deal with YOUR reactions to MG in your lives that has caused him to neglect your needs. Most people don't know how to deal with severe emotional mood swings and when once they have made efforts and failed to make the situation better, they will start pulling away out of self preservation.

I have seen this in my own marriage (he has told me straight out) and others. (MINE)It also is not limited to "another woman" or romantic relationships.
I would feel just as neglected and the more emotional and depressed I got the more he would pull away and burry himself in his activities. (DITTO. AND it has gone the other way as well-when I spent time with friends and he felt neglected cause he's not as social as I am.)

I could argue the same thing, that before my needs were being met and so were his, so I thought. (MACA SAYS THIS) The truth is his (MINE) weren't.....

This was a need that no matter how much he loved me I couldn't fill. (THIS-Maca can't fill all my needs) It took me a long time to come to terms with this and it was a struggle to find a balance, mostly because I didn't understand what was really going on and he has a tendancy to over extend himself. (THIS THIS THIS)Now, I am comfortable saying "you are neglecting me and the family... please find some place to cut back", he actually listens and takes steps to rectify the situation. It's not my place to say where he needs to cut back, just to tell him what I need (attention, time, physical contact, help with chores, etc).

I put in red the things I added that were about me/maca. I bolded/underlined the line that really kicks ass and should be repeated all over the net.

 

[LovingRadiance]

He is waiting around for me to "fix" myself as he doesn't think he needs to change. Yes - that is a problem. But it's something that we will talk about in counseling. There are things we both need to change in order to save our marriage. I think it's easier for him to put all the blame on me though. I definitely have issues, problems, emotions etc that I need to work on - (I whole-heartedly admit that) - but so does he.

One of the miscommunications that happened between Maca and I, he thought I was saying that everything wrong in our relationship was due to him. Based on what I write on here, my blog, etc.

But, that wasn't what I was TRYING to say at all.

The truth is that we both have issues-and I'm trying daily to work on my personal issues.

BUT-his issues were so dramatic and crisis level issues, that we can't work on joint progress until he can learn to manage his emotions to a degree where he isn't flipping out and changing all of the rules every time he gets scared or emotional.

It's not that I don't know that there's work I need to do (and am working on) or that WE need to do.
It's just that I can't work on any of it WITH HIM unless he can control his own emotions and behaviors so that they aren't dangerous for me.


Does that make sense?

Now-Im NOT saying that is the situation with you guys-I have no clue. But, it seemed like it might be good food for thought for you.

In order for two people to work together on fixing ANYTHING, they have to be able to both be safe during the "working on it" parts. If that isn't possible because someone loses control regularly... well then they can't work together to fix anything at all-particularly not anything that has to do with the two of them together.

 

[LovingRadiance]

On another statement you made about his time-the fact remains, that every single thing we do in life is a choice.

GG has changed job paths-to the detriment of finances MANY TIMES-to ensure his availability to the kids DAILY.
Maca has walked off the job leaving us with NO INCOME and risking the loss of our home-because they wouldn't let him have a day off to go to our daughters baptism and celebrate our anniversary.

We make things "unchangeable" that in fact are unchangeable. I've struggled through having no way to pay the mortgage for 4 months due to lack of jobs.
I struggle with being so isolated up here, every day of my life-if I took a job that problem would be resolved in 6 months! BUT-I wouldn't be able to do for my kids what I choose to do for them.

Right now we're taking a hit of $2000 a month-so Maca can live in his own place. A financial hit that means I can't go buy anything without calculating the bare necessities to the PENNY-every damn time.
A financial hit that means we aren't goign to have the money to move on time.
A finanicial hit that means I may have to get a job or one of the others may have to get a second job-killing our time together.

BUT-we make choices and we suffer the consequences of those choices.

There is very little in life that CAN NOT BE CHANGED. There is often MANY options that would work better if we use creative adaptation techniques. When we get stuck looking for "normal" solutions is when we get stuck with "it's impossible".

It's only imposible to the person who says so. The one who keeps trying through all the many failed possiiblities creates the lightbulb.

 

[SNeacail]

The only thing he can cut back from, or rearrange the time spent with is MG - which therein lies the problem. We work opposite shifts so time was limited before MG - and now it's even more limited. That is a major source of our arguments.

This is you trying to micro-manage what and how he does things (recipe for disaster and resentment). It is not your job to decide what or how he re-arranges things in order to meet your needs. You need to be specific of your needs. This does not include "you can't do such and such or you can't see so and so". Instead get to the heart of your needs "I need X amount of time with just you per week and no outside distractions (texts, emails, laundry, dishes, etc)" and/or "please text me daily with a good point and bad point of your day". Set a time to evaluate how things went after one week, the determine what needs/can be adjusted.

Quote:Originally Posted by SNeacail
You mentioned that you took the love languages test. Does he know what yours are? Do you know what his are?

No - we've never talked about that and I never thought to bring it up. Maybe we should. . .

For us this was a HUGE eye opener for both of us. Get the book and read it, it is worth it (also available on audiobook ). My husband didn't read it, but I did and I was able to point out my views about what I thought his love languages were as well as clue him into what mine were. He was then able to elaborated on what he needs to get from me. We have had a number of discussions on this. Including my having the guts to ask him "What are you doing that you think shows me you love me?" I wanted to see if I was missing things that he was trying to do - I was.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I read the book too. Knowing what Maca's, mine, GG's and the kids love languages are, is a HUGE help in being sure that everyone gets to FEEL the love that I have for them.

Sometimes you are showing someone that you love them-the way you most would want to be shown-but they don't feel it cause it's not THEIR love language. Bummer deal!

Maca's is physical touch. Gotta have it. That's easy for me to give him, cause I love to touch him, but it's not MY love language, so he has to remind himself to do the things that fill MY love language (which tends to be favors and helping with chores etc).

Sneac-GREAT examples of specific ways to ask for exactly what you need!!! Maybe you should write a "how to make your relationship great" book.

 

[SNeacail]

Sneac-GREAT examples of specific ways to ask for exactly what you need!!! Maybe you should write a "how to make your relationship great" book.

Still learning by trial and error and just repeating what the councelor has told us and what I have learned from others here. So no book from me

 

[KatTails]

I have been fighting via text and phone with 2rings for several hours this afternoon/evening because of what I wrote today. Apparently, he thinks I owe him and MG an apology because THEY read too much into what I wrote and made MANY wrong assumptions. That's not going to happen. This is MY blog - if they don't like it, they don't have to read it. I know there are things in MG's blog that would upset me - so I stay off. She has carte blanche to write whatever she wants because I am not going to criticize it, run to 2rings about things she wrote, or debate issues with her. However, they read everything I write, and have yet to refrain from criticism. I've quit this site two other times for this exact reason - and even though the tone of this newest blog is completely different from the ones prior to November - they are STILL finding things to pick at.

Their issues?

1. That I hinted that there was something very bad about 2rings that he was hiding from MG.

What I said was that there were "facets of his personality" that not everyone sees and that I didn't *think* that MG had seen. Any married person sees parts of their spouse's personality that others do not. That is a part of marriage. Does that mean he's hiding it from her? No and I never insinuated that he was hiding something. But unless you live with someone - you never see all parts of them. That's all I was saying. They want to read more into that - there is nothing I can do.

2. That I was "baiting" MG by saying "...MG, I'm not going to discuss that comment further on here - it's something him and I will talk about in counseling. If he chooses to share that with you afterwards, that's up to him. But I won't talk about it here out of respect for him."

When I started up this blog again, I made it clear that I was not going to use it to bash, complain, criticize, accuse or debate with or about MG or 2rings. That is NOT what this blog is about. So, I headed off any debate that may occur because I specifically did not want to go into detail about issues/problems that I have with 2rings. Those are things that him and I will work on in marriage counseling. If he wants to tell her what was said - I can't stop him.

3. In addition - I was told that I was specifically telling MG that that she is "not included and [that] I will make no effort to include [her.]"

Is she included in our marriage counseling? No - she is not. He is free to tell her what he wants about things that were discussed in our sessions - but I will not give her a word for word transcript of what was said. Why would I? 2rings didn't even know what "facets of his personality" that I was referring to -so until him and I had a chance to talk - there was nothing for him to tell her - yet, an issue was still made.

4. I was slamming 2rings by saying that he was waiting for me to "fix" me and that he wasn't admitting to the changes he needs to make.

Does 2rings have changes he needs to make in order to save our marriage? Yes, he does. Does he acknowledge those changes? No, he doesn't. On many, many occaisons he has said that I need to change or we will divorce. In fact today, he said "...you have to get REAL serious about REAL CHANGES, RIGHT NOW, OR WE ARE DONE!" Hmmmmm - am I wrong then? Telling the truth about something is not slamming. It's being honest with the situation you are in. 2rings does have changes he needs to make - but he can't or won't admit it. If that's his stance, then this marriage is over.

5. That I blamed MG for our marriage problems.

What I did say was "It's because of MG's presence that my needs are being neglected.....It is her presence that has caused 2rings to neglect my needs in our marriage AND conversely - MG's presence in his life is causing me to not be able to fulfill his needs." Did I say that MG did anything to cause our problems? No - I blamed him and I for neglecting each other's needs because of MG presence. 2 years ago our marriage was good. All of my needs were being met and I was meeting 2rings needs. It was not until he met and fell in love with MG that my needs became neglected and in turn I neglected his needs. Did I say that she specifically did things to cause problems in our marriage? No - I didn't. What I said was that her being in his life has changed our marriage and because of that - I have struggled with the changes and 2rings has struggled with my struggling. Who is to blame for our marriage possibly ending? 2rings AND I. We have both made mistakes. We have both neglected the others needs and that is why divorce is almost imminent.

I have been criticized many, many times by both of them for making assumptions and reading into things that were said - yet, when they both do it - I'm still the one who shoulders the responsibility.

Even though I have acknowledge my mistakes, my issues, the things I need to change about myself etc; even though I have refrained from making anything here personal with MG; even though I have taken every word of advice with an open mind; and even though I have tried my hardest to not come off as whiny or as a victim - it's not enough and I am being criticized anyways. If I have to worry about each and everything I write on MY blog - then there is no reason to keep it going.

So - there is no longer any reason for me to be here. I'm sure MG will give "her side" on her blog - I just won't be reading it. But if she feels the need to put me in my place and tell everyone why I am crazy, wrong, emotional or as I was called earlier "a lunatic" - then so be it.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to read and respond to my posts and to everyone who has offered me advice, suggestions and opinions. You have ALL helped me - in many, many ways.

I will not be logging in anymore - so if anyone would like to get in touch with me - my email is [email protected]


Kat

 

[LovingRadiance]

I wrote you-but I'm writing it here too.

I told MG in her thread as did many others, that she needs to NOT avoid writing on account of you.

Likewise-you need to NOT avoid writing on account of her (or him).

You've already expressed and acknowledged a difficulty in productively taking care of your own needs, being depressed and isolated.

Walking away from the board because they had a temper tantrum (or he had one or whatever) is only exacerbating those same issues.

You HAVE to make a choice to stand up for your needs.

Maca OFTEN dislikes what I write-HELL-I often dislike what he writes.

The last thing he wrote on my blog here, was to support MY RIGHT TO WRITE ON THIS BLOG AND VENT EVEN THOUGH HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING I SAY-because he knows that I need to have people I can talk to-who will talk to me about how I can work on myself.

You have said things that were... .questionable in regards to their 'productivity' as thinking patterns, and EVERY TIME-you've gotten GOOD advice on how to deal with it.

Ask your counselor-ask your friends-

"Is it reasonable for me to have an anonymous place where I can vent my feelings, fears, thoughts and get feedback and criticism, even if what I say isn't 'right' or is uncomfortable for 2rings?"

The answer is IT IS NECESSARY and yes it is reasonable.

IF ANYONE doesn't like what you have said-they DO NOT HAVE TO READ IT.

The positive side of what you write here, is it is written here, not all over the familiy facebook page.

 

[IndieSolo]

Gosh, I hate when the fingers of blame get pointed at the emotional ones, as if being emotional is a crime.

Kat,

If this blog helps you to sort out your issues and get feedback, don't stop. You do what you need to do and if this blog is a part of your healing and growing process, I don't see why anyone could berate you for what you write here. You're absolutely right -- they don't have to read it.

And if they do, they really have no reason to care what you say. I doubt it will change what they do, anyway. And, gosh, if he wants you to change, and this is an outlet for you to make those changes, then what exactly is the problem? Perhaps he doesn't want to look like the bad guy -- but we don't know him. Maybe there is a handful of members here who have met you (I don't know), but nobody else here knows who you folks are. So there really is no reason to worry about his reputation.

If they're so certain that your views are incorrect, there is no logic or reason to fight you about it and demand an apology. It is just a posting on a message board. They could've calmly asked for clarification or just rested secure in their convictions, allowing you to be yourself.

Egads, everyone has their own viewpoint. My sister and I can have completely different recollections and opinions of the same event from our childhood. Doesn't make one viewpoint less valid than the other.

And it is impossible for a marriage to fall apart ONLY because of one spouse. Of course, both people contributed to it and of course both people have to look at their shit and clean it up. Nobody gets away scott free. A war isn't fought on just one side alone. It takes two to keep a war going.

Don't throw in the towel if this blog is useful for you. Seeing your process also helps other people.

 

[SourGirl]

Huh ?

I was inwardly cheering while I read your post. You seem to be finding your convictions, and not being swayed. Do I think you make mistakes ? Hell yes.
...but everyone has to start somewhere, and this is your start.

Then,..you say you are leaving the blog,..Sayyyyy what ?
You stand up for yourself, both right and wrong, and then you leave ?

Oh,..no,no,no,no,.

Growth happens when we stand by our feelings, and acknowledge the fact, that we cannot control other people`s reactions. We accept that things we say and feel may hurt unintentionally, or intentionally, or cause them to be super pissed off at us. We decide to be authentic anyhow, albeit in a reasonable way.
If it`s real,..own it. Be responsible for your words. Trust me, I know, I piss people off quite naturally.


You pissed them off. It happens. They don`t like your feelings,and they are entitled to be unhappy about it. They are entitled to express it too.

You are also entitled to having your own feelings. Which includes being unhappy with them. Which includes telling them to f-off if they try to control what you say.

(oh sorry, that last part wasn`t very poly-minded of me,..please insert something fluffier.)

Forgive my ' bluntology ' ...but everyone really needs to stop trying to control the others' feelings here. It always feels like the thought-police are ready to pounce.

 

[sage]

AAAAAAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KT (just in case you do decide to log in, I'm not getting into private posting ) Your post came up on my phone while I was walking. I didn't read it all but I would like to respond to the first bit, which I see now pales compared to the rest.

Yes -I agree about the fact that we have our partners warts and all and their other love often sees only their 'Sunday best' as it were. I struggle with that too and it sucks.

I'm not even going to read the rest of your post because I don't think it's important. What is important (to me anyway)is that you are giving up your blog, which you seemed to me and obviously others, to be doing well with, because of what 2rings has said to you. Can't you see that this is a pattern of yours that needs to change?

Haven't you realised by now that martyring yourself to try and please him doesn't work? This has happened before and you go into a cycle of resentment and despair.

The current post on my blog is about "allowing". Both you and 2 Rings need to ALLOW each other to be who you are, otherwise you will never get anywhere. You've been doing so well don't ALLOW him to stuff it up for you. Allow him to be angry with you, it's his stuff and just because he's angry doesn't mean you have to change what you're doing. You get angry with him all the time and he doesn't stop doing what he's doing. This is what I meant about a toxic relationship, you will not get out of the cycle until you can see the pattern and break free from it.

Sorry in advance to anyone who feels this is too strong for a blog, it is meant
with the best of intentions.

 

[NeonKaos]

Yeah, KT, when you keep saying you're leaving your blog because of MG and/or 2Rings (who will probably have to change his name to 1Ring sooner or later), you DO sound whiny. Either stay or go, but make up your fucking mind, sister-woman.

I'm getting a little tired of opening and closing your blog, so I'm beginning to see what others are going through.

You know I care about you and I'm telling you the truth.

 

[KatTails]

I feel like owe everyone an apology and an explanation . . .

Yesterday was a BAD day. Not only did I only get a few hours of sleep the night before, I had an issue come up at work, I had a nasty fight with 2rings and to top it off - I'm premenstrual. All of that hitting me at once was overwhelming and filled me with such anger, stress and anxiety that I was unable to contain my emotions and reacted before thinking things through in reference to ending my blog.

That said - I stand by everything I wrote on here yesterday. I don't think that anything I said was an attack, an accusation, a bashing, baiting or slamming towards 2rings or MG. If they took it that way - that's on them and I am not responsible for their reactions. I think they read too much into what was written and put words in my mouth. And instead of asking me to clarify or explain - 2rings jumped to conclusions and overreacted.

I have taken full responsibility for my mistakes, my issues, and my part in destroying our marriage. I have started to make changes in my life. If 2rings can't see the changes - it's because he either doesn't want to or he is too consumed with contempt and resentment towards me to be able to see them. Again - that's on him. I can't control how he thinks or feels - I can only control myself.

It was out of extreme frustration that I decided to end my blog - I'm sorry for overreacting and for giving in. It's not what I want - but I felt pressured to do so. I have felt pressured to do a lot of things - and that stops today. I have a voice and I have a right to speak my mind.

2rings and MG - if you are going to react and criticize things I write - then please stop reading my blog. If you do decide to continue to read and something comes up that you would like me to explain or if you would calmly like to discuss (off the blog) - I have no problem with that. But I am not going to be yelled at or criticized for writing about things that are happening in my life or how I'm feeling. Neither of you have the right to tell me what to do, think or feel.

MG - I have stayed off of your blog for two reasons: the first being that I know there are going to be things that you write that would hurt, bother or anger me - and not out of maliciousness, but in the natural process of telling your story - I choose not subject myself to that. Secondly - because you too deserve to have a place to vent, complain, and discuss issues without worrying about getting any feedback from me. As LR stated: we both should be able to have an "anonymous place where [we]I can vent [our] feelings, fears, thoughts and get feedback and criticism, even if what [we] say isn't 'right' or is uncomfortable for 2rings?" . . . or for each other. You have your place - can you please give me mine?

2rings - even though you can't see it right now - I am changing and growing and in large part because of the amazing people on here who have given me support, encouragement, advice and blunt honesty. I do feel like part of this community and I would miss being a part of it. So I am staying on and continuing my blog. I am also continuing to work on myself, to build up my confidence, to become a better person - for me, for our children and for our marriage. My love for you has never wavered - and is as strong as ever. However - the time has come (long overdue) for me to lose my dependency on you and to become my own person. With that, you will lose the control that you feel the need to have over me and in what I choose to think, do and say. You can't have it both ways.

I will continue to work on making positive decisions and choices that will benefit our family as a whole, our marriage, our daily lives and our movement forward. I hope you'll do the same. Our family and our children are worth it. I love you and do want to save our marriage. I hope you'll help me do so.

 

[marksbabygirl]

One thing I have learned:

Not blogging, not getting outside opinions, not being able to express what was going on for ME (even if it was my choice) messed ME up. It wasn't good for me.

I relate to you on so many levels... I understand how you feel.

And I believe you need to continue taking care of you - that running away and shutting down will never help you find a healthy place for you.

 

[KatTails]

I told MG in her thread as did many others, that she needs to NOT avoid writing on account of you. Likewise-you need to NOT avoid writing on account of her (or him).

You've already expressed and acknowledged a difficulty in productively taking care of your own needs, being depressed and isolated. Walking away from the board because they had a temper tantrum (or he had one or whatever) is only exacerbating those same issues. You HAVE to make a choice to stand up for your needs.

You have said things that were... .questionable in regards to their 'productivity' as thinking patterns, and EVERY TIME-you've gotten GOOD advice on how to deal with it.

Ask your counselor-ask your friends- "Is it reasonable for me to have an anonymous place where I can vent my feelings, fears, thoughts and get feedback and criticism, even if what I say isn't 'right' or is uncomfortable for 2rings?"

The answer is IT IS NECESSARY and yes it is reasonable.

IF ANYONE doesn't like what you have said-they DO NOT HAVE TO READ IT.

LR - as always - thank you! You are right. I did ask my counselor that question yesterday - and she agreed!!

If this blog helps you to sort out your issues and get feedback, don't stop. You do what you need to do and if this blog is a part of your healing and growing process, I don't see why anyone could berate you for what you write here. You're absolutely right -- they don't have to read it. And if they do, they really have no reason to care what you say. I doubt it will change what they do, anyway. And, gosh, if he wants you to change, and this is an outlet for you to make those changes, then what exactly is the problem?

Absolutely true! The problem is they view what I am saying as half truths or outright lies. I'm sure the same could be said about what MG, or anyone else for that matter, writes. Blogs by nature are one-sided.

They could've calmly asked for clarification or just rested secure in their convictions, allowing you to be yourself.

True - but they didn't.

And it is impossible for a marriage to fall apart ONLY because of one spouse. Of course, both people contributed to it and of course both people have to look at their shit and clean it up. Nobody gets away scott free. A war isn't fought on just one side alone. It takes two to keep a war going.

Agreed!

Don't throw in the towel if this blog is useful for you. Seeing your process also helps other people.

I'm not and I hope.

BTW - thank you sooooo much for the PM. It kicked me in the butt and made me decide to come back.

I was inwardly cheering while I read your post. You seem to be finding your convictions, and not being swayed. Do I think you make mistakes ? Hell yes....but everyone has to start somewhere, and this is your start.

I definitely held on to my convictions and didn't allow their reactions to sway what I said. I stand by everything I wrote. I did, however, let them make me doubt my place here, as I've done before.

Then,..you say you are leaving the blog,..Sayyyyy what ? You stand up for yourself, both right and wrong, and then you leave ?

Oh,..no,no,no,no,.

Sorry - this made me laugh!!

Growth happens when we stand by our feelings, and acknowledge the fact, that we cannot control other people`s reactions. We accept that things we say and feel may hurt unintentionally, or intentionally, or cause them to be super pissed off at us. We decide to be authentic anyhow, albeit in a reasonable way. If it`s real,..own it. Be responsible for your words.

You pissed them off. It happens. They don`t like your feelings,and they are entitled to be unhappy about it. They are entitled to express it too.

You are also entitled to having your own feelings. Which includes being unhappy with them. Which includes telling them to f-off if they try to control what you say.

Forgive my ' bluntology ' ...but everyone really needs to stop trying to control the others' feelings here. It always feels like the thought-police are ready to pounce.

I agree wholeheartedly! To me - this feels like a situation of them being "allowed" to do what they want, say what they want, feel what they want - then criticize my reactions. But when the table is turned, they get pissed off about it and still criticize me. Double standard? I think so. Frustrating to be sure!

And "bluntology" - LOVE it!!

Yes -I agree about the fact that we have our partners warts and all and their other love often sees only their 'Sunday best' as it were. I struggle with that too and it sucks.

It does suck!

I'm not even going to read the rest of your post because I don't think it's important. What is important (to me anyway) is that you are giving up your blog, which you seemed to me and obviously others, to be doing well with, because of what 2rings has said to you. Can't you see that this is a pattern of yours that needs to change?

Yes I do - which is why I'm back!

Haven't you realised by now that martyring yourself to try and please him doesn't work? This has happened before and you go into a cycle of resentment and despair.

True.

The current post on my blog is about "allowing". Both you and 2 Rings need to ALLOW each other to be who you are, otherwise you will never get anywhere. You've been doing so well don't ALLOW him to stuff it up for you. Allow him to be angry with you, it's his stuff and just because he's angry doesn't mean you have to change what you're doing. You get angry with him all the time and he doesn't stop doing what he's doing. This is what I meant about a toxic relationship, you will not get out of the cycle until you can see the pattern and break free from it.

I do see the pattern. I think it's a control thing with him. He wants me to "allow" him to live his life, love as he wants and do as he pleases, but he won't "allow" me the same freedom. He wants to control what I do, what I feel, what I think and what I say. That's why his reaction to my posts yesterday were so strong. And that is what is causing a lot of the friction in our marriage. But unless he sees the pattern too and is willing to work with me on breaking it - our marriage won't last.

Sorry in advance to anyone who feels this is too strong for a blog, it is meant with the best of intentions.

That's how I took it! No worries.

Yeah, KT, when you keep saying you're leaving your blog because of MG and/or 2Rings.....you DO sound whiny.

Do I sound whiny or worn out from constant criticism? Do I sound whiny or resigned to the fact that no matter what I say, they will take issue with it? Do I sound whiny or defeated?

Either stay or go, but make up your fucking mind, sister-woman.

This made me laugh! I love your bluntness!!

I'm getting a little tired of opening and closing your blog . . .

No need to close it - I'm sticking around. I had a PMS-induced momentary lapse of judgement.

You know I care about you and I'm telling you the truth.

Absolutely I do! Thank you for that!