First Hurt

[PickMoreDaisies]

I am new to this board. I have found everyone's posts very helpful and enlightening. I am in a mess, I guess, but I will explain the situation as best I can, and hopefully just be heard and get some new perspectives. So here goes...

I am in a long-term committed relationship with my common-law husband of 7 years (Derek) and we are happier than ever. We have three kids in our blended family. They all live with us.

We have both been divorced once. My previous marriage was open, and failed miserably. Derek and his ex were swingers. Although I do not believe that either of our marriages failed as a result of our particular lifestyle choices, I felt for most of our relationship that adding that dimension to this relationship was just a recipe for disaster.

About five months ago, we became involved with a man (Dane) that we have known for many years. At first it was just playing around, but I quickly developed feelings for him and him for me. I have felt liberated in this situation. Derek has been more than I ever imagined him to be. The communication that it has opened up in our relationship has strengthened our bond. I finally feel accepted for who I am... even loved more because of it.

Although Derek is not bi, he felt that the relationship with the three of us strengthened their friendship. He enjoyed having our "third," Dane, in our life. While things were good on our front, things with Dane were complicated, and it became increasingly obvious that he was not able to handle many things. Needless to say, it became a very seperate V situation, to the dismay of Derek, who enjoys the group dynamic and felt excluded, rather than being "one big happy."

I have tried to accept that Dane does not share a poly mindset. Both Derek and I have made adjustments to our expectations and reevaluated our "rules" to accommodate Dane's needs and comfort levels. While I accept Dane and his feelings, he seems to not be able to accept mine. Thus the current problem.

I feel that Dane's needs have been so important. Both Derek and I have tried everything to not make him feel like a "third." We have included him in family life, had long discussions about what his needs are and how important they are to us. Now Dane is claiming that it can never go anywhere. He thinks it is doomed to failure. I feel that all of our work was for nothing. Now, after it all, I am left hurt. He claims to love me and every minute that we spend together, yet he sees no future in it.

I am hurt that he let it continue with the idea that it was never going to work anyway. What was the point exactly?

I can't add any more right now...

 

[MonoVCPHG]

I feel for you and will write more soon. Take care. --Mono

 

[MonoVCPHG]

He claims to love me and every minute that we spend together, yet he sees no future in it. I am hurt that he let it continue with the idea that it was never going to work. What was the point, exactly?

This is not an uncommon feeling for a person in Dane's situation, I believe. I had the same one at a point in my own relationship.

There are things in life Dane may not have experienced, and that is what he feels he will be missing. Has he been married before, celebrated a wedding with his family, raised his own children, experienced a primary family dynamic, taken his wife to a BBQ with his co-workers and felt like part of his community, just like everyone else?

These are things he might feel he will never experience in a poly environment, and probably from a "socially-normal" standpoint he won't, within this poly-V relationship.

There is also probably a sense of never having someone for himself which, as much as it is frowned upon here, is a basic need for a lot of people in a relationship. He may also be wondering who else will enter the relationship. Is it an open poly family or a poly-fi commitment?

The fact that Dane can love you and see no future in it is not that surprising. It is how you and he deal with that that is important. If you are both willing to let the relationship continue on its natural path, than perhaps you will be able to get as much positive energy and love as is possible. Is that not better than throwing in the towel prematurely?

He may change his mind, he may not. I did… but I'd also experienced all the things I mentioned previously, and now enjoy being in a "support role" to Redpepper and her husband.

As far as his wanting space from Derek, it would be hard to live separate lives. That indicates Dane really doesn't want to be in a V. He is almost pretending that as long as it lasts, it is you and him… an artificial reality, if you will. I've done that too, but not with Redpepper's husband. There is a certain external embracement that comes into play in this type of dynamic that is injected by people who he may consider his friends. I lost a world of friends… but I knew this path was worth it because I saw a future in it, and am willing to accept the "cost," if you will, to achieve that. I lost a lot of surface friends but gained one very close friend in her husband.

I hope this gave some insight.

 

[Fidelia]

Hiya, PMD. Welcome to the forum.

I'm really sorry for your pain. My heart goes out to you and your men.

The heart of successful polyamory is free and open communication between people who love each other. I'm glad to see the three of you have invested so much in establishing that. I know it can be hard work, but it's so important. So kudos to you on that front.

May I make an observation? Dane does not share your polyamorous mindset. For many people, that by itself would make a successful relationship a non-starter. (There are, of course, very happy and successful Vs, such as Mono, Redpepper and her husband have.)

Only the individuals involved can make the decision as to what they can and cannot accommodate in their lives and hearts. Sadly, Dane has now stated that he cannot see himself in a poly relationship. I think it speaks very well of all of you that he was able to speak his mind, and that you and Derek were able to hear him. But I know that doesn't make it hurt any less.

If he loves you and desires a relationship with you, perhaps Dane sincerely considered poly and has now decided it won't work for him. Or perhaps he hoped you would dissolve your relationship with your Derek and become his partner, monogamously. Or perhaps he was willing to explore the possibilities, and this is where the exploration lead him.

If Dane went into the situation with his mind made up, and was only going through the motions of trying to make it work in order to manipulate the situation somehow, that's pretty low, and you'd have every right to feel used and mislead. But perhaps he really didn't know at the outset how he would feel, and is now simply being open and honest about feeling the relationship has no future. And heartbreaking as it is, because he's decided your V is doomed, it is. I'm so sorry.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

Perhaps Dane really didn't know at the outset how he would feel, and is now simply being open and honest about feeling the relationship has no future. And heartbreaking as it is, because he's decided your V is doomed, it is.

Great point Fidelia!

Who really does at first? I certainly didn't know what my relationship was going to evolve into, or how our vision of the future would change our requirements and boundaries.

As goals change within a relationship, so does the evaluation of whether it is possible in a mutually-healthy way, and if it is worth it in relationship to the bigger picture.

This may be what has happened in this case. There is no fault here, just different paths with different requirements to be healthy.

 

[PickMoreDaisies]

First struggle

I talked more with Dane today about how he is feeling, and it seems like he is in a lot of pain, overwhelmed with confusion about logistics and how this could all be OK. His concerns seem to be:

- what happens if the kids find out what is going on?
- how can we possibly have a "normal" relationship when it is all so secret?
- he doesn't understand how Derek can be OK with any of it
- he can't figure out how he ended up in this complicated situation; he just wants it to be "easier"
- he can't even tell his good friend about what is going on because he feels that he will judge him
- he doesn't want anyone to get hurt in the end

Just a note: He has been married before and has two wonderful boys, 16 and 14 yrs old. He does not want more kids. Our kids all get along very well, as they have known each other for years.

After the conversation today, I just feel for him. I don't want to hurt him, I don't want to see him struggle with this if he can't handle it. I feel like what we have is special and I want it to work out, but not if it tears him apart. I told him that I wasn't angry or critical. It appears that he wants some time to think about it.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

- how can we possibly have a "normal" relationship when it is all so secret?
- he doesn't understand how Derek can be OK with any of it
- he can't figure out how he ended up in this complicated situation, and just wants it to be "easier"
- he can't even tell his good friend about what is going on because he feels that he will judge him
- he doesn't want anyone to get hurt in the end

The word normal is a tricky one. Normal is established by social norms primarily. He's right. It won't be normal. But that doesn't mean it can't be healthy and good.

Once he truly understands that Derek is ok with it, a huge weight will be lifted. In order to do this, I suggest spending time together as a group in social atmospheres, a drink at a pub, dancing, tea at home, whatever.

"Complicated situation." It gets more complicated, usually. But if you push through the work and figure out how to create a mutually-beneficial relationship, based on true love, the rewards can be immense.

"External pressures." This is one of the biggest issues for a guy, IMO. Straight mono guys generally hang with other straight mono guys. They can be very critical of a guy having a girlfriend who knowingly has sex with other men. I get this first hand. "Are you not man enough?" will be the big dig he might face. You can't answer "Well no, I'm not," and hope to explain that one.

For me, it is the judging of the woman I love, more than any attack on my own masculinity. People really have a hard time with a woman having multiple partners. I generally am ok with mentioning her husband, but don't mention her other partners, because the assumptions are swift and direct, at least initially.

There is a certain embarrassment that is imposed by the looks of others. That will be one of his biggest hurdles, unless he wants to live in the shadows of your primary relationship. As I said before, I lost almost all of my old friends and am trying not to lose a family very close to me.

"Secrecy." Having to hide your love of someone is not a good feeling. That is why I came out early to my parents. That is why I am also feeling the brunt of being somewhat of a home-wrecker and general cheating prick in the eyes of those that don't understand us. It takes a lot of love to stand up and take that on, and is not something that should be done lightly. It is not a fair expectation for most. If you are proud of your love you should be able to come out about it. This goes both ways.

Are you prepared to stand by him and support him in that so he can enjoy open love, for you if he wants?

There is a lot to consider. I hope you all find what you want in this.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

He doesn't want anyone to get hurt.

Moving forward with the acceptance of possibilities keeps me sane in that area. Acceptance doesn't mean "inevitability." It just means you come to an internal understanding of the nature of all relationships, regardless of their dynamic, and not letting fear hold you back. Otherwise I would never ride my bike for fear of crashing.

 

[redpepper]

All of the work was for nothing. Now, after it all, I am left hurt. He claims to love me and every minute that we spend together, yet he sees no future in it.

I am hurt that he let it continue with the idea that it was never going to work anyway. What was the point exactly?

It is a lot of work. Full stop. It never ends. It just gets easier, as far as addressing possible issues faster and more efficiently the longer you know each other in this light, and the more "big" stuff is gone through.

 

[redpepper]

- what happens if the kids find out what is going on?
- how can we possibly have a "normal" relationship when it is all so secret?
- he doesn't understand how Derek can be OK with any of it
- he can't figure out how he ended up in this complicated situation; just wants it to be "easier"
- he can't even tell his good friend about what is going on because he feels that he will judge him
- he doesn't want anyone to get hurt in the end

Wow, these are all too familiar. I remember similar worries and concerns coming out of Mono's mouth.

- My boy loves Mono as a good grown-up friend. He is six, and understands that I love Mono and have sleepovers at his house.
- "Normal" is what we make it, not what we are told. As for it being secret? That is a matter for time and comfort.
- In time, Mono saw that it was okay with my husband because no shit hit the fan.
- Growing and learning about oneself is never easy. Poly pushes us to invest more into our relationships, that isn't easy. But then, if life were easy we wouldn't really be living it.
- Dane could very well be judged, but then, would his friend really be a good friend? I think not. He will meet many new friends through this that will understand and be by his side if his "good friend" doesn't pan out as a keeper.
- It's not in his realm to control who gets hurt or not. The only way he can achieve leaving the situation, and feeling good about, it is to act according to his own needs, while keeping others in mind. That should be the root of his communications. He only has control of himself.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

He will meet many new friends through this that will understand and be by his side if his "good friend" doesn't pan out as a keeper.

This is really dependent on their social community and if there is a poly-friendly environment. And if there is a poly-friendly environment, he'll have to deal with aspects of that too. It's not that simple, although I wish it was. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. That's a whole new thread. Sorry for the tangent.

 

[redpepper]

I was assuming that they would follow the flow of meeting others like them, letting their secret out and finding new friends because of that. Not necessarily what will happen, though. Agreed.