Restless heart syndrome: cause or effect?

[dingedheart]

If you've been here for any length of time, you see the same pattern or story. I myself have that exact same story. After a number of years [...], fill in the blank, in my case, 15 yrs married, 18 total, my spouse says:

- I think I'm polyamorous. I have feelings for other people. I love you to death, and that's not going to change. But all my needs aren't being met. So that's why I wanted to give this polyamory thing a try.
- Well, honey, what needs are you talking about? I'll try to help meet them.
- You can't, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.
- What am I doing wrong, or not doing?
- Nothing and everything. It's not about you, it's about me.
- What?
- I need this for me. I know you feel threatened and confused, but here's the thing: love is infinite, and my ability to love and have sex with others has no impact on you at all.
- Wait. Back up. Did you just say have sex with others?
- Yes, of course, silly. What did you think we were talking about?
- I don't know. [The room is spinning, my ears are ringing. I think I'm going to pass out. I need a first aid break. I get a drink.)
- So what you're saying is, you have taken this relationship as far as you think it can go. The new-car smell is gone, so it's time to start looking for a new one.
- Well, I wouldn't put it like that. But yes, we are on steady glide down a path that may lack a certain excitement.
- So you're saying I'm boring?
- No, no, you are very interesting, just not as much to me anymore. It could be a growth issue. You should look at this as a growth opportunity.
- So, how does this work?
- Well, I thought of placing an ad on one of those online dating sites.
- So to get these unspecified needs met, you're turning to the internet?
- Well, duh. What could be as exciting and easy, all at the same time?
- Okay, let's say you find someone and start dating. How does that work, time-wise?
- We'll have to see.
- What does that mean?
- Well, everyone's needs must be considered, of course.
- If you add a relationship, won't time from something else get cut?
- Not necessarily.
- Wait. How often would you see this person?
- Well, I didn't want to mention this until later, but it could be persons, plural. Perhaps 1-3 three times a week.
- What time of day? Nights?
- I work, silly. Isn't that when you and I are together with our kids? Yeah... about that-- you guys might see me a little less.
- What am I supposed do while you're out fucking some other guy, or, as I just learned, guys?
- First of all, that's very vulgar, and not necessarily true. This is about love, so I prefer "making love" or "having sex." Second, we would be dating, going to dinners, movies, concerts, weekend getaways, etc. Dating stuff. And that may or may not include passionate lovemaking. So, you may want to get a hobby or take a class to fill in your time. Or work on your own self-development stuff, which might make you less boring. That sounded negative. How about, it could make you more interesting?
- I really don't see the benefit to me and the kids.
- Well, a much happier, more satisfied me. It's simple. If I'm happier, everyone will be happier. Also, I'll most likely feel sexier, and that could spill your way, as well (you lucky bastard). In most cases, spouses feel closer after this. Can't you see it's a win-win for everyone?
- What? How does you spending free time having another relationship, which includes sex, going to make us closer? Less time, less attention, focus divided... How does that make sense?
- Wow. I can see you really need time to reflect and dig into that self-growth stuff we were talking about earlier. In the end, I think you'll see that it will be be time well spent. You may want to talk with a therapist, too, to help you sort out your resistance to this.


I could go on, but I'm running out of time. Those who have gone down this road, feel free to add dialogue as it happened in your lives.

My question: is restless heart syndrome the cause or the effect?

Do people find polyamory out of boredom, or narcissistic self entitlement, or the idea of self discovery (i.e., "I've always been this way") that occurs after years in a mono relationship?

 

[MonoVCPHG]

Holy crap. This whole post seems so real and depressing. I don't know how people make the transition from mono/mono to mono/poly.

There's something very genuine in how you wrote this, my friend. Sad, but very genuine.

Thanks for sharing this, although it leaves me with a hollow feeling.

 

[Vivien]

Holy crap, this whole post seems so real and depressing.

I agree, but I'm not sure if that's because the dialogue rings true for us, or because it rings true to the dialogue we have with ourselves as we're trying to overcome our shame at not following social rules about what love, fidelity, and commitment look like.

 

[SNeacail]

I'm speculating here, but I don't see someone in a healthy 15+ year mono marriage, just all of a sudden saying "I've always been this way," without past episodes of cheating involved. I have seen a few "I fell in love with a family friend, but I still love my spouse, now what do I do?" I think the key word here, when dealing with 15+ year marriages, is healthy.

If you really look at this board and the relationships that are working, you will notice that only a very few see their OSOs more than once a week, some not even that often. Those that do, are NOT in a new relationship, and their OSO is more of an extension of their primary family.

**Statements here assume, spouse, kids, bills, etc.**

 

[Carma]

Wow, I hope my husband doesn't read this. It casts everything in the worst light. I know I am playing spin doctor quite a lot with my mono husband, and it can be a real struggle to focus on the positives. But I'm not stupid. I know he isn't thrilled, but is making the best of things.

Maybe what it comes down to is, some monoamorous people can tolerate polyamory, and some just can't. Maybe the pain is just too much to bear, for some. I feel so terrible reading about your pain, dinged. Thank you for sharing in such an honest way, though, because it keeps things in perspective for me. Sometimes (especially reading this!) I wish I were monoamorous, but for now, I'm living polyamorously, for better or worse.

 

[BrigidsDaughter]

I feel your pain, dinged. But I'd have to agree with SNeacail on this one, I don't see this happening a lot in healthy long-term marriages.

Runic Wolf and I have been together for 13 years, married for almost 11, and other than the first couple years of our relationship, we've either been open to the possibility of other partners, or polyamory (whether living monogamously, or being in multiple relationships). Though for 9 of those years, I was more or less emotionally monoamorous.

I can't imagine the pain you must have felt to have a conversation like that, seemingly out of the blue.

 

[SourGirl]

If you been here for any length of time you see the same pattern or story. I myself have that exact same story...

Thanks, my friend, for starting this discussion. It needs to be had.

As for it not happening in "healthy" marriages, you bet your hiney it does. I`ve borne witness to it from the close-friend side of things. No one is immune. Who gets to define healthy, anyway? Your version, or my version? Everyone has weak moments, and goes off the path for awhile.

All it takes is the right ingredients of events and long-forgotten feelings. (If you haven't dealt with NRE in 15+ yrs, you might be a wee bit rusty in recognizing it, or in handling it correctly.) If you don't believe that, think of every story you have heard about someone who said "I thought I was happy in my marriage, just coasting along, then he/she came along and rocked my world. I feel so aliiive with them!"

Marriage goes bust due to these new feelings. Spouse takes off with new flame, only to have that go up in flames, and them regretting losing their long-term spouse.

So while those who are "in the know" on NRE, and understand midlife issues, and what signs to look for, and are able to recognize and dodge this, there are many, many people who do not.

It happens in monoamory. It happens in polyamory, too. People are looking for a new feeling, a new flavour, something they haven't yet shared, because they don`t understand it themselves.

Sometimes it's a new car, sometimes it's travel. Sometimes it's a fancy new romantic "hobby" (partner).

 

[SNeacail]

As for it not happening in "healthy" marriages, you bet your hiney it does.

I was referring specifically to the scenario of one spouse saying "I'm poly, and have always been this way, and this is how things are going to be." Just the whole one-sidedness of that type of statement doesn't sound like it comes from a healthy relationship, to start with.

But there's no denying that even in healthy relationships things can get turned upside down and ass-backwards very quickly.

 

[dingedheart]

Mono, thanks for the comment. If you don't know how people transition from mono/mono to mono/poly, no one will. But Restless Heart Syndrome isn't confined to the mono/poly dynamic. How many polyamorous folks rotate in and out of relationships after the new-car smell is gone?

SN, I agree, a longstanding healthy marriage might not use the excuse of always being poly, unless cheating is involved. Let's say instead, they question the theory of monogamy, and embrace the new theory of non-monogamy. They then use that as a position to soften the hurt and rejection their partner will feel, to get this new experience without throwing out their entire life. Replace "I've felt like this forever" with "I've been feeling like this for a long time, x number of years."

Carma, thank you for the comments. Didn't things like what I posted get said in your house? How different was it?

Do you have kids? I know I listened to the intellectual arguments, but went along with it for the kids' sake.

Does your husband post here?

RP and Sage would be good resources for the number of people with this same story, if they're still around. Freetime could jump in. Although he's a new convert. Still, he could share his initial talks.

BrigidsDaughter, thanks. "Other than the first couple of years..." Why the first couple of years? What did you mean by 9 yrs emotionally mono? "A little pregnant" comes to mind.


Sourgirl, thank you for your kind comments. It has been an observation I've had for a while now. Just thought I'd run it up the flag pole, 4th of July and all.

 

[Carma]

Didn't things like what I posted get said in your house? How different was it? Do you have kids? I listened to the intellectual arguments, but went along with it for the kids' sake. Does your husband post here?

These things have probably all been said in my house, or at least thought, felt or implied! I think mostly the implied stuff made me feel the sting. I would hate to think I was sending some of these messages to my husband, but I know damn well that I have, unintentionally. The pain he has endured makes me feel conflicting feelings: 1) awe and gratitude that he loves me so much that he is willing to sacrifice for me, and 2) terrible guilt that I have put him in the position to make that sacrifice. He is making the best of the situation and mostly it is because, yes, we do have kids.

My husband says he is usually okay with it intellectually, but emotionally, he struggles a lot with it. We are both really into psychology and heady stuff, so some of the challenges of poly have been exciting, I guess, but mostly it has been very, very hard on him.

He has posted in the past, but I don't think he comes here much anymore. I think he is reluctant to "embrace" polyamory, and it's hard for him to hear the successes. He is just hoping it will be over soon. (Sometimes, so am I.)

 

[dingedheart]

Things and dialogue not covered yesterday, a couple things that happen down the road.

A good conversation would have been the one in which I confronted her on the feeling I was getting that our time/dates and even sex were being done out a sense of fairness or obligation. The bad part was I was told it was me-- "You're looking for the negative," when in fact, it's quite common. Others here admit they've done the same thing. I posted about that at the time.

The other conversation of note would be about primary status. She made a comment about me being her "primary," like she thought that was something I'd want or need to hear, and would be a comfort to me, or something. She didn't count on my rejection of that status or notion, and the subsequent shift in attitude and responsibility, as I saw my new role. In the end, she may have had a primary (herself), a secondary (Dick, that's his name), and a tertiary (me). I don't know where the kids and dogs fit in. Again, there's an entire thread on that topic.

I look forward to the discussion.

 

[IndieSolo]

dinged, the scenario you posted doesn't really look like a conversation to me, where two people are simply and honestly expressing themselves, hearing each other, and connecting. It just looks like someone being steamrolled. And then, the final sentences in your first post of this thread take a jab at polyamory in general, as if anyone who has chosen polyamory for themselves has done so out of boredom, or some other trivial reason.

You have discussed your situation in the past (although we have not seen an update recently). It is easy to see that you are still bitter and angry about it. Calling it a "Restless Heart" is very poetic, but does not disguise your pain.

Anyone who read your story earlier knows that polyamory was/is not the source of the problems in your marriage. Have you and your wife sought help to rectify and heal the deeper issues? I don't mean the BDSM stuff; I mean determining what was at the heart of her dishonesty and sneakiness, how you were affected, and other issues. I know you were focused on your daughter (and rightly so), but the tone of your original post here would indicate that the hurt and damage is still deeply felt within you. Perhaps it is time to shift the focus a bit and heal your marriage, and the woundedness you both feel. Where are you in that process? I feel sympathy for you.

 

[redpepper]

Dinged, the scenario you posted doesn't really look like a conversation to me, where two people are really expressing themselves, hearing each other, and connecting. It just looks like someone being steamrolled. Your final sentences take a jab at poly in general, as if anyone who has chosen poly for themselves has done so out of boredom, or some other trivial reason. It is easy to see that you are still bitter and angry about it. Anyone who read your story before knows that polyamory is not the source of the problems in your marriage. Have you and your wife sought help to rectify and heal the deeper issues?

Ditto this. It seemed to me that your wife's biggest offense was the BDSM she was involved in, not "polyamory." Was she really saying she was into BDSM, but wasn't able to say admit it, for some reason? Perhaps she feared how you would react?

 

[BrigidsDaughter]

"Other than the first couple of years." Why the first couple of years? What do you mean by 9 yrs emotionally mono? "A little pregnant' comes to mind.

The first couple of years, we were teenagers and still in high school. We didn't know any other way of doing relationships. We actually discovered open relationships about a week after we got married, ironically.

I say that I was emotionally monoamorous for 9 years because, while I'd had physical relationships and FWB situations, and was always open to more, it took 9 years for someone besides Runic Wolf to touch that side of me that deeply. And there were a couple of years after Runic Wolf's first polyamorous experience ended badly, that I did want him all to myself. Someone had hurt my husband deeply, and shattered his confidence, and I felt it was partially my responsibility to help him rebuild.

 

[BrigidsDaughter]

I'd have to agree with NYCindie, that this doesn't seem like a conversation, but more of a "you got told." Now, I have to admit that, in the beginning, Runic Wolf and I didn't communicate the best, but we always made an attempt. Sometimes, I had to go back and explain what I'd heard, and respond to it in writing, because I communicate better that way.

 

[dingedheart]

NYCindie, so what you're saying is you've never read stories with these elements of commonality? You need to read the New to Poly section.

What about the 3-4 people who posted before you, who did identify with the concept and conversation?

Because you and your husband came to this forum from a mutual perspective, why do you want to debate my word "conversation," or rather belittle it, as not connected, or honest?

What would you say to Carma? Were her conversations not connected or honest? What would you say to Carma's husband or bf?

I'm sure your conversations with your husband, and other partner, or partners, are connected and honest and authentic, so, if/when "restless heart syndrome" rears its ugly head, you can write the details then.

At times, it seems you and others here just look for things to be offended by.

"The final two sentences"-- which sentences?

This topic and the "poetic name," I heard come up when sitting around a campfire discussing someone's current relationship situation. During that conversation, "7 Year Itch," and "roving eye" were also used.

Yes, my wife has sought help. Quite expensive help, I might add.

My personal aftermath story is off topic, so if you are truly interested in that, PM me.

RP, see above, and also Carma's comments. "Her biggest offense," really? That's a very enlightened armchair view. I'm really surprised you want to weigh in like this, knowing what you know.

Isn't your whole relationship with Mono more or less predicated on the RHS (Restless Heart Syndrome), and "we know this will end at some point"?

The concept of serial cheaters using "polyamory" for cover has been discussed to death, so why is what I said so untrue or inaccurate?

Carma, thank you VERY VERY much for your comments.

I wish others would chime in.

I wasn't trying to cast a bad light. I was trying to be accurate, good or bad. I did take out the foul language I'm sure I used in those "conversations" or talks.

"Talks" is better, right, NYCindie?

Thanks,
D

 

[Derbylicious]

I do know what you're talking about, dinged. I've seen a number of people post here for whom this is their introduction to the world of polyamory. I'm glad it wasn't my experience. It's hard enough when things are changing, and you're both on the same page as being internally non-monogamous. It must really feel like a blindside if you're not in the same place internally.

You're still hurting deeply from this, aren't you? A lot of what you write sounds very angry.

 

[SourGirl]

I was referring specifically to the scenario of one spouse saying "I'm polyamorous, and have always been this way, and this is how things are going to be." Just the whole one-sidedness of that type of statement doesn't sound like it comes from a healthy relationship, to start with. But there's no denying that, even in healthy relationships, thing can get turned upside down and ass-backwards very quickly.

It was presented as speculation. So I piped in to say I have seen it happen in real life, in that exact scenario, and have also seen it happen in online stories, repeatedly.

When people are fearful, they can deny things for many years, sometimes a lifetime, before they admit it to themselves or others. That's why they can be in a healthy marriage, as neither party has outwardly admitted it.

The trouble is, people can also THINK they were a certain way in hindsight, as they pick and choose what they want to see. Those types tend to have some instability.

*******
I think it would be wise for people to acknowledge the darker side of poly, rather then dismissing what dingedheart says due to his personal issues.

Seeing/admitting the darker side of poly, and the emotional toll it takes, can only help well-meaning people do better, and think before they act.

 

[IndieSolo]

NYCindie, you've never read stories with these elements of commonality? You need to read the New to Poly section.

What about the 3-4 people who posted before you who did identify with the concept and conversation?

. . . Why do you want to debate my word "conversation," or rather belittle it, as not connected or honest?
What would you say to Carma ? Was her conversations not connected or honest? What would you say to Carma's husband or bf?

. . . It seems, at times, you and others here just look for things to be offended by. "The final two sentences"... which sentences?

You misunderstand me. Sure, some elements of the conversation you posted in the first message may be common to other couples. What I was saying is that it wasn't really sounding like a conversation where two people are listening and negotiating with each other, nor connecting in a heartfelt way about something that is a major shift in a relationship. I felt sad reading it.

I was not belittling the conversation, nor taking issue with the word "conversation." I was pointing out where I could see how unfair it would feel to be on the receiving end of that kind of talk. If that is how the conversation went between you and your wife, who approached you about being non-monogamous, your posted scenario sounded more like you were steamrolled and told what you would have to accept. That is what I was saying. You were being talked at, and not really listened to. There was no give and take nor compassion for your position in what you wrote. Obviously, I was not alone in seeing it that way. Before my response, Carma posted, "Wow I hope my husband doesn't read this. It casts everything in the worst light." Your pain is palpable in the scenario you posted. As I said, I feel for you.

Other people have their opinions, and I have mine. My post was not meant to negate anyone else's. I simply shared how I perceived what you wrote here, and what I perceived was lots of anger and bitterness being broadcast. This is in the General Discussions forum, so I am participating in the discussion.

In addition, I was not offended at all by anything in it. Being offended is a choice -- a stranger on the internet doesn't have the power to do that to me. I only pointed out how saying, "Do people find poly out of boredom, or narcissistic self entitlement?" looked to me like another way your bitterness about everything was being expressed, because it made it sound like polyamory is a way to use people. I have no problem with you saying that. Some people do use "polyamory" as an excuse for other behaviors. But not every situation is so manipulative and full of such deep, deep pain.

The basic gist of my reply was to say that your pain and anger comes across loud and clear, and that I feel compassion for you, if that is how the conversations went for you.

I also posted that response to say that the way you depicted that conversation sounded like you were identifying the need to be non-monogamous as the main problem for a relationship, but that isn't necessarily the case. Your situation was a disaster, and not really what anyone would want from polyamory. If a dyad relationship is strong, and the two people in it are honest and ethical about approaching non-monogamy (which your wife was NOT, and anyone can read your threads to see why not), polyamory can not only work, but also bring people closer and enhance what they have, as has been seen here many times.

I am very glad she is in therapy. It sounds like you still have much unresolved anger and bitterness toward her, though, so I hope you are finding something therapeutic for yourself, as well.

Because you and your husband came to this forum from a mutual perspective, I'm sure your conversations with your husband and other partner or partners are connected and honest and authentic, so if/when restless heart syndrome rears its ugly head, you can write the details then.

FYI, I am separated and embracing poly as a solo person. My soon-to-be ex-husband is not a member here. But yes, I try to be as open and honest as I can in my conversations with lovers, and with anyone I am close to. I have taken numerous workshops in communication over the course of 20+ years, and made enough blunders in expressing myself, to have learned that really listening to someone is often the biggest challenge for many people. We all tend to have our own agenda, and have to put that aside in order to truly hear what someone else wants, absorb it, and be considerate about it. I don't think you were really considered enough in that scenario, so I hope things have improved for you.

The term "Restless Heart Syndrome" doesn't make sense, to me, in a polyamory situation. Maybe you can explain what you mean by it.

 

[NeonKaos]

There should be a thread about the darker side of poly because i agree that there is a panacea attitude that poly just means more love and how can you go wrong with more love? While there is all kinds of stuff that the other partner is supposed to suck up and deal with (even if they are also poly-minded) because it's all about more love so how could that be a bad thing.

People do the most wretched things in the name of "love".

But a thread about it - that would be too pessimistic, wouldn't it?