Codependence and drama

D

DoctorBones

New member
Hi, all - I could really use some help, if it's even possible to help me, in dealing with a very distressing situation in which I find myself. Advice, admonitions, criticism, words of support...anything is welcome, as I feel close to my wits' end right now.

I'm still very much "new poly" by my own reckoning -my wife of almost fourteen years (who I love very much) and I decided to transition to an open relationship almost a year ago. The road has been somewhat bumpy, largely due to what I now recognize as my own raging codependence, but in the last week it's become nearly intolerable and I'm having a hard time functioning day-to-day.

<WARNING - I'm about to describe a really ugly situation - stop reading now if you aren't prepared for that>

About three months ago I met a wonderful woman with whom I "clicked" immediately and we began dating. I'll call her "Jane" here. Jane was in a long-time open relationship and has been poly all her adult life. At first things were wonderful - we had SO much fun together, great chemistry, the whole deal, and we fell head over heels in love with each other. Despite, or even because of, everything I'm about to describe, I still love her powerfully.

About a week after Jane and I acknowledged our feelings to each other, she discovered her husband had been sexually abusing her teenage daughter from another marriage for several years. To make a long story short, she had him removed from their home by law enforcement and is now involved in a tooth-and-nail battle to keep him away from the victim. It is becoming clear that this guy is a sociopath and he will stop at practically nothing to regain access. This man is not going to be charged because the DA's office doesn't feel they can win. The really damning evidence is inadmissible in criminal court because our state has incredibly badly designed privacy laws. So he is free to walk the streets and make Jane's life a living hell. He has enlisted the help of his own parents, who are either of the same stripe themselves or have been skillfully manipulated, to assist him with what we believe, but cannot prove, was a kidnap attempt last week.

Jane's daughter isn't talking - she has very little sense of her own identity, due to being tampered with for so long during her formative years, and is incredibly angry. She is not cooperating with any of Jane's attempts to protect her, and in fact takes every opportunity to try to circumvent them. Jane is being harassed in every way her husband can come up with that doesn't violate the letter of the temporary protection order. Emotionally, financially, everything. She's also dealing with a potentially-life-threatening medical condition and is currently unemployed due to her previous contract having run out. She's barely holding together, and it's killing me to watch.

I'm becoming aware that I have a MASSIVE problem with codependency that is making this situation almost unbearable for me. Jane is just trying not to fall apart. I'm dealing with more anger than I have ever experienced in my life, and I can't figure out where the anger leaves off and the crushing depression begins. Watching this feels like it's going to literally kill me. I'm trying to learn how to detach and keep my head where it belongs, without losing my ability to care and to help where it's appropriate, but this situation is pressing every one of my codependent hotbuttons very hard, and holding them down.

At the same time, I'm having trouble here at home too. My wife has recently started dating a really nice guy who she really, really likes, and I'm finding that I'm experiencing far more jealousy and insecurity over this than I expected. I find it very hard to know that she has a sexual relationship with this man, despite the fact that this has taken absolutely nothing away from me and that it contributes to her being happy. Again, raging codependency.

I'm trying to work through those issues, but with these two things together I feel like I'm being pulled apart from within, and I don't know how long I can keep this up. Nothing I've ever experienced in my life has been this painful.

Help?
 
Crazy situation! I'm not sure what it is you are looking for. It sounds like really the nost appropriate course of action is to allow the woman you have been seeing a lot of space so that she can deal with what she needs to deal with regardless of your co-dependency. It seems to me there are bigger issues for her.
 
Well, I do believe that much is true. I know I am creating a lot of my own pain, and probably aggravating hers, by hovering too close. The only way I have historically known how to commiserate is by taking her pain into myself and trying to experience it along with her. I need to learn a new way to care, something that doesn't smother the people I'm trying to love or tear me apart from the inside. That's going to take some thinking, and learning, and letting go, and I'm not sure what all else.
 
Hey Doc,

I think you may understand what you need more than anyone else right now, but it seems you aren't taking care of yourself as you try to take care of everyone else. It is a wonderful and powerful gift to love so deeply, but you have to remember your own needs as well. Remember the power you do have, embrace it, and allow it to remind you of how great you can be on your own.

I am also incredibly codependent, mostly at times when I feel other people need me, but then I realize my desire to "help" is more selfish than it is selfless. My advice here is to be supportive, but take some time for yourself to think about what your needs are. Most of all, talk to your wife and to Jane about your difficulties. Communication is very important during stressful situations, but it isn't always easy.

I hope the best for your situation, and I hope Jane is able to overcome the travesty of our justice system in order to protect her child.

KGodc
 
You touched on something important there. I'm beginning to understand that the anger I feel here is partially righteous anger on behalf of my partner who has been betrayed, and her daughter who has been made into a toy for a sociopath, but an uncomfortably large chunk of it is selfish anger at him for depriving me of the flow of Jane's positive energy toward me. I've never learned to take good emotional care of myself and I feel abandoned despite the fact that she didn't, and never would, choose this. I have managed to take her crushing personal crisis and make it about me. That's pretty messed up and I'm slightly ashamed to admit it.

The most important thing I can do here, I think, is to learn to live for myself so that I can go without that validation and positive energy when they aren't available, and still be happy. I'm trying to figure out how to do that. I'm aware that there's a gaping hole where my sense of my own worth and sexual identity would be in a healthier person, and I have to figure out how to grow into that space.
 
Hi Doc,
My ex is a sociopath who molested my daughter's best friend 6 years ago (she was 17 at the time). So I can relate a bit. I can tell you what helped me get through. For one thing: the Al-anon program (for friends and families of alcoholics). It helped me cope, in so many ways. It has also helped me deal with my co-dependency, which is another area in which I can relate! I don't know if you have dealt with alcoholism in your lifetime, but it's pretty much epidemic these days. And it is not really all that different from other diseases of the mind and spirit -- including personality disorders.

I also wanted to comment that your compassion for others is a wonderful gift. Extend that same gift to yourself! It sounds like you have a very big heart. I'm glad you came to this forum -- you're in good company here :).
 
This is an extremely difficult situation -- I wish nothing but the best for you and Jane.

You do bring up a very good point, though. This is something I've always considered/wondered about when it comes to polyamorous relationships: all relationships are interconnected. I truly believe they are. Any situation going on in one partner's life will undoubtedly have some affect on all other people in the relationship, no? Sadly the example in Doc's life really seems worst-case scenario but.... how do we help one partner through a difficult time - watch their pain, become affected ourselves - without our other partner dealing with the repercussions. Seems impossible, doesn't it?

Anyway, as said by other posters, I think you do see what you can do in this situation even though it is VERY difficult. Maybe an open discussion with Jane in which you actually ask her what she'd like from you would be good. Let her tell you exactly what you can do and how involved she'd like you to be... that may help you feel better about stepping back if necessary, knowing that it's actually the most helpful thing.
 
So, let me ask the community a question. Is it fair, in all honesty, for me to burden Jane with my own pain? She's experiencing the worst personal crisis I've ever seen. My hurt and pain seem to pale by comparison, and I hate the thought of adding to her list of woes. Part of me wants desperately to talk to her, to acknowledge that what I'm feeling is irrational, but it still hurts. Another large part, maybe the codependent part, feels like this would be selfish in the extreme. Should I talk to her about it? Or should I wait until things have calmed down?
 
With an ex actively trying to destroy her life and a traumatized daughter, Jane is not going to be a helpful resource right now. I would strongly advise against talking to her abiut your hurt at this time. Consider how Jane might take that: your daughter's been abused, and your husband is trying to destroy you, but don't forget that you have wreck my emotions, too. Is that helpful?

If you really want to help, you need to change you modus operandi. Taking Jane's hurt onto yourself and wearing it like a camel hair shirt means that when she looks to you, she just sees more pain. Instead, you should trying being the strong, supportive, helpful partner who can listen to her pain but reflects only love and acceptance.

This means you need to regulate and then dispose of your pain. When Jane looks at you, you encourage her to share what she wants, give sympathy, and help her stay or track towards the goals she wants to meet. Hearing from you how angry the ex's threats make you is not nearly as useful as hearing from you ideas of how the two of you might best file with those threats. And that might not be as useful as her hearing from you how much you care and you think she is a good person and good mother even when the ex threatens.

As for your wife and the jealousy there, have you talked yi her openly and honestly about your feelings? Sometimes all it takes to feel better is a reminder from the wife that you're her husband. If you haven't addressed your feelings with the wife, you're failing at the poly ideal of open, honest, proactive communication.

Best of luck.
 
sagency said:
If you haven't addressed your feelings with the wife, you're failing at the poly ideal of open, honest, proactive communication.

Best of luck.
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Just something to mention... we need to be aware of the language we use with one another. One of the things my partner is really struggling with is feeling like he's a "failure" at living a polyamorous lifestyle because he understands certain principles but still has a hard time doing certain things. That feeling of inadequacy or failure can overwhelm him sometimes and actually stops him from being the person we both know he can be. So, I'm trying to be really careful about the language I use and how I address certain issues with him.

We're here to help, encourage, and support one another... not drag each other down [though I'm sure it's unintentional].
 
So, first of all, yes, I am having direct, open and honest (sometimes they feel brutally honest) conversations with my wife about how I'm feeling. I agree that this is vital. She's sympathetic, having dealt with many of these same issues herself, but we both know that she can't really help me. This is something I have to overcome myself. And I'm trying really hard. I'm reading everything I can find about self-esteem building and breaking out of a codependent mode, blogging just for the sake of focusing my thoughts on the topic, and questioning everything I think or feel regarding my relationships. Sometimes I'm successful in replacing the painful thoughts with something healthier, sometimes I'm not.

But damnit, this HURTS. I haven't experienced anything this painful for over 20 years. I broke down in tears twice this morning before even leaving the house. I know I have to dig deep, really deep, into myself and find the strength to manage my own state of mind without outside intervention. Every fiber of my being is screaming for relief and I want so badly to engage in all my codependent behaviors, especially to tell Jane how I'm feeling and try to cry on her shoulder despite the terrible pain of her own that she's experiencing. When she asks, and I know she will because that's part of who she is (and part of why I love her), I'll tell her the truth about how I'm struggling. But I will be very careful to keep it in the context of wanting to be here for her, and doing the very best I can to work out my own issues, which are not her problem, so that I can do that. In the meantime I will just keep working on this and being a positive presence for her. I'm not going to lie to her about what's going on inside me, but I'm not going to dump it on her shoulders either.

I just wish personal growth didn't have to hurt so much...
 
Why exactly did you break down in tears twice? I'm not seeing the codependency aspect of this situation. You're a week into the relationship and you think your codependent already?
 
DoctorBones said:
I'm beginning to understand that the anger I feel . . . is selfish anger at him for depriving me of the flow of Jane's positive energy toward me. I've never learned to take good emotional care of myself and I feel abandoned . . . I have managed to take her crushing personal crisis and make it about me. That's pretty messed up and I'm slightly ashamed to admit it.
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DoctorBones said:
Is it fair, in all honesty, for me to burden Jane with my own pain?
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DoctorBones said:
I haven't experienced anything this painful for over 20 years . . . Every fiber of my being is screaming for relief and I want so badly to engage in all my codependent behaviors, especially to tell Jane how I'm feeling and try to cry on her shoulder despite the terrible pain of her own that she's experiencing.
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You need to grow up. Stand naked in front of a mirror. Are there balls between your legs? Pubic hair? If so, then stop acting like a child. You've taken the "Co-Dependent" label and are hiding behind it. This relationship is a few months old, and the woman is going through something that is utterly and completely devastating, and somehow you seem to think that not getting her attention warrants asking for some consideration. Stop being so damn selfish, man.

It's rather telling that you conveniently overlooked this part of sagency's post:
sagency said:
I would strongly advise against talking to her about your hurt at this time. Consider how Jane might take that: your daughter's been abused, and your husband is trying to destroy you, but don't forget that you have wrecked my emotions, too. Is that helpful?
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When you wrote, "But dammit this hurts!" after his post, it really came off like a childish tantrum.

There are two kinds of emotions. The genuine kind that rise up naturally in response to circumstances, which is the pain Jane is going through, and the self-indulgent kind we manufacture out of our own thoughts, which is what you're going through. If you stopped thinking about what you believe you're not getting from her, that pain would go away. You are being so totally self-centered and self-obsessed, it isn't funny. Get out of your head and into your life. Be productive, make things happen, work with your hands, get some physical exercise, let go of the mindfuck you indulge in. You will never be there for yourself nor anyone else in any real, loving way if you continue on the track you are on, and you could lose Jane altogether because of it.
 
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Nycindie -

I'm really disappointed at the tone of your post. Do you come here just to be critical of people who are struggling with things they find difficult? I'm sure you can find more satisfying targets if you'll look closer to home. Maybe the down-and-out drug addicts in your local city park will lie down long enough for you to smack then with a hose if you're quick about it.

But I forgot, this is the Internet... here you don't have to put your own face on the bile you spew. You accuse me of hiding behind a label, without knowing anything about me other than what I've put here...yet you're the one hiding behind a monitor and keyboard as you take potshots at people who are in pain and doing their best to fix it. Your point of view would have been welcome if you didn't apparently feel the need to be so judgemental and hostile about it.

I don't need your attitude - please feel free not to reply to any further threads of mine. You haven't taken the time, nor have you been given the opportunity, to understand me or my situation well enough to say things like this, so please don't.
 
On a brighter note:

The weirdest thing has happened. I feel good.

That's not necessarily weird in itself, but I can't put a particular reason to it, other than that I've been trying all day to dig myself at least a little ways out of the pit of despair that I've found myself in since last week.

The day sure didn't start out well. I had two crying fits before I even left the house this morning, and another short one in the office while I was trying to get started on my workday. Thank FSM I have my own office... But it seems that maybe, just maybe, some of the efforts to find my own strength are bearing fruit, and faster than I ever would have expected. I noticed a gradual lightening of my mood all day - nothing really palpable moment-to-moment, but just a general sense of feeling stronger and more complete. I kept wanting to check personal email, for a word from my partner in distress, or a notification of a thread response, or anything validating, but most of the time I was able to resist that temptation and get my head back where it needed to be. And every time I did that felt like a little victory. Throughout the day I also noticed that it seemed to be getting easier to believe, and really *believe*, that I'm a great person who deserves great things and other great people in his life. The need for comfort from others, which felt so strong in the morning, seemed to just dissipate over time.

And when I got in the car to come home after work, I turned on the radio and found myself feeling actually *happy*. It's a short drive home from my office, but the whole way I was bobbing my head, drumming on the steering wheel, and otherwise acting like a total dork, and loving it. I'm still feeling good. Not euphoric, but good. Centered. Positive.

I hope it's not directly connected to the good news from my secondary today. Her lawyer says the douche-in-chief's latest stunt won't stand, and will only hurt him in court this week. I was really glad to hear this, but I don't think that's what accounts for my good mood. It doesn't change her basic situation, and it doesn't change any of the stressful situation with my wife and her new relationship. The lightening of my mood was a gradual thing that's been going on all day, not tied directly to any one thing, so I'm daring to hope that this is something real, that I've achieved a thing I never used to think I could do - digging myself up out of the hole, not just to a point where I'm OK but where I'm actually feeling happy and vital.


Time will tell. I'm not naive enough to think that there won't be more bad moments, bad days, bad weeks. Recovery from any emotional upset is a wobbly process, with lots of ups and downs. But I think today proves that I'm capable of leveraging my own strength and my own positivity to take care of my own needs. That's a big step in the right direction and I'm content with that for one day. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
 
Dingedheart - I'm referring to patterns I established decades ago and have never really broken. And we're a lot farther than a week into the situation. This drama has been going on for months, but I think what happened this weekend is that I finally had enough of my own bullshit and started finding a better way to live, one centered on my own emotions instead of other people's.
 
DoctorBones said:
Nycindie -

I'm really disappointed at the tone of your post. Do you come here just to be critical of people who are struggling with things they find difficult? I'm sure you can find more satisfying targets if you'll look closer to home. Maybe the down-and-out drug addicts in your local city park will lie down long enough for you to smack then with a hose if you're quick about it.

But I forgot, this is the Internet... here you don't have to put your own face on the bile you spew. You accuse me of hiding behind a label, without knowing anything about me other than what I've put here...yet you're the one hiding behind a monitor and keyboard as you take potshots at people who are in pain and doing their best to fix it. Your point of view would have been welcome if you didn't apparently feel the need to be so judgemental and hostile about it.

I don't need your attitude - please feel free not to reply to any further threads of mine. You haven't taken the time, nor have you been given the opportunity, to understand me or my situation well enough to say things like this, so please don't.
Click to expand...

So if she says, what many of us are thinking,..she is the asshole ?

Listen up, buttercup. You will get many points of view. Especially when you ASK for opinions from various angles. If nycindie was just interested in being a jerk to you, she would of said it in one sentence.
'You,..are a douchebag.' .....end of story.

She took the time to show where your inner thoughts that you are expressing to us are heading down the wrong path.

We all par-take in selfish and destructive behaviours at times. The good people acknowledge it, and try and do better. No one is perfect.


Hate her advice all you want, but she is just trying to wake you up, so you`d dont lose your girlfriend while you self-sabatoge.
Lots of people hate the 'blunt' type of advice but you know what the truth of it is ? 5 years from now,..10 years from now,..2 months from now.....You will remember the blunt stuff as it comes true.
While the hand-holding nicey-nice advice will be fuzzy.

Now,..if all you want to do is VENT the inner thoughts, with no anti-fuzzy
feedback, then you can do that in the blogs section.
 
Perhaps the denizens of this board would like to offer constructive criticism, not snark and smug, sneering hostility disguised as direct feedback.

The message would have been welcome, if it came wrapped in something that resembled civility. The attitude was not. If this is what this community is like, I can do without all of it.
 
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