From 0-100 in 3 weeks

dingedheart said:

Wasn’t my intention to needle anyone. I was just wondering whos driving this effort. If she’s out filling out apartment applications, etc., etc., and lots of sketchy communication (lies by omission) is/was that a coordinated effort to push him to his break point?

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I'd never assume a spouse is doing "coordinated effort to push [...] to the breaking point." There are few pathological personalities who do that. Most people don't mean to do malice - they may do all sorts of sketchy or hurtful things to their spouse because they lack skills or capacity to handle their own stress or heightened desire, because of cognitive biases and errors that occur while they are trying to achieve some kind of goal, etc. It's highly unlikely his wife wants to break him. Could be she does want out of the relationship and does not know how to communicate it without making the rest of their cohabitation period hell, or could be she's undecided what to do next since her beloved husband has become an "obstacle" to her new passion, so she - consciously or unconsciously - increases distance to get more clarity.
Divorce is obviously on the table because they fight. "Getting the paperwork together" just says none of them is surprised that this is an option.

ref2018 said:

He said "we picked up the paperwork" which doesn't imply they "went together" in "a friendly and amicable" way. It comes across as if you're searching for holes and inconsistencies in his story.

I do understand why you might be triggered by this since it's treading into territory similar to the one your now ex-wife did, but please try to keep your characteristic snarky rhetoric to the barest possible minimum kthx.

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You can read into this whatever emotion or narrative you want. However, there’s a good chance I know more about this situation from the numerous pm conversations I’ve had with him.

And for the record, my divorce, although chaotic and complicated at the time, is without doubt one of the better decisions I made. The only regret was the amount of time it took, and that wasn’t from me or my side.

Tinwen said:

I'd never assume a spouse is doing "coordinated effor to push [...] to the breaking point." There are few pathological personalities who do that.

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Ok, so maybe break point was too strong… as is pathological. How about someone who doesn’t want to look like the bad person? I’ve heard from numerous people and therapist class that often people who’ve really made up their minds, perhaps yrs or months in front of having a confrontation, which then ends up in counseling, and they play this charade so as to not come off as the bad person. I’m not sure in this case that it would truly matter who filed first, BUT at the same time each might have their own reasons why it would be easier if the other did it.

Tinwen said:

Most people don't mean to do malice - they may do all sorts of sketchy or hurtful things to their spouse because they lack skills or capacity to handle their own stress or heightened desire, because of cognitive biases and errors that occur while they are trying to achieve some kind of goal, etc. It's highly unlikely his wife wants to break him.

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I see breaking him/the person as different as breaking the marital bond they once had. We talk here in some form or fashion about runaway NRE, poly hell, spousal neglect, etc., on a weekly or monthly basis, and the strategies to mitigate those issues. And with Carrie’s cheating history and her meltdown at the prospects of him dating, and little to no course correction on her NRE behavior (that we know of) it’s hard to determine what likely or unlikely would be. BUT he might have an idea having spent (?) yrs with her. Bottomline, from an outside person looking in, she seems uninterested in propping up a failing marriage and/or converting this to a workable poly dynamic.

Tinwen said:

Could be she does want out of the relationship and does not know how to communicate it without making the rest of their cohabitation period hell, or could be she's undecided what to do next, since her beloved husband has become an "obstacle" to her new passion, so she - consciously or unconsciously - increases distance to get more clarity.
Divorce is obviously on the table because they fight. "Getting the paperwork together" just says none of them is surprised that this is an option.

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From the conversations I’ve had with him he’s been the opposite of an obstacle, IMO. I don’t want to speak for him, and please correct me if this is wrong, but she was pretty much granted whatever she asked for in terms of time and availability with Leo. He’s truly tried to make it work for all concerned.

Ok, I see if have cause a bit of discourse with unclear statements so hopefully this straightens it out a bit.

Physically, I picked up the paperwork; but we both had discussed getting it so we would be able to look it over and understand what would be needed if the time came. I even began to fill it out on my own when I hit a real low point without mentioning it to her. Since then (a month-ish) its just sitting in a drawer and hasn't been touched or mentioned by either if us. We havent settled on a like, "no later than" date or anything. Personally im leaning towards waiting after a separation period if/when she gets the apartment.

We had another discussion last night after I mentioned that it had been a long time and I was interested in having sex. I could tell she wasn't particularly thrilled about it, so I asked blatantly if she had any desire to have sex with me at this point. Her answer was, "not really." So I told her that she has made it very clear that my wants and needs are not her priority anymore, and that I am going to make them mine, and do what I need to in order to do so, and I left the room.

After a few minutes of breathing, I went back, and we had our talk, where I told her of these things lately that had made that clear-- the not having any real intimacy over the last month, a not small part of that being the lack of sex. I have a high drive, and even though it has dropped a lot with all this, I still have that need and desire. That, tied to the fact that she regularly has sex with Leo, but doesn't really seem to care about the fact that I've been left "high and dry."

I told her that while I don't desire anyone but her, and don't particularly want to seek a relationship with anyone else, especially above our relationship, I do need to have some connection with someone. I even acquiesced to the point of until we get our marriage either going forward again, or just ended, that I can adjust to us having a more friends-with-benefits connection, since the romance and intimacy seems to be a struggle for her right now. She agreed to think on it, anyway. We will talk more as the next week or so passes. But I let her know that I can't just sit in limbo forever.

Carrie also let me know that even if we end the marriage, she wants me in her life, not just as the father of our kids, but as a friend. She agreed, maybe even more. But for now, she wants to get some space to try and step back and look at everything a bit more clearly.

A trial separation [for a defined period of time] sounds more and more reasonable. Leo is not in your face all the time and you can both wait and see whether her desire reemerges or not.

A trial separation with firmer time lines sounds better.

If she's neglecting you as a spouse, why would she do any better as FWB or friend? Wouldn't that just be more neglect?

I'm glad you told her you will not remain in limbo forever. But don't accept "scraps" either-- not "scraps FWBs," and not "scraps friends."

Carrie also let me know that even if we end the marriage, she wants me in her life, not just as the father of our kids, but as a friend.

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Why? What does she want you for? She's not being very friendly now. Why would that change later?

She agreed that maybe even more, but for now she wants to get some space to try and step back and look at everything a bit more clearly.

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Honestly, it kinda sounds like she's keeping you hoping and stringing you along.

It's ok to just be polite divorced coparents. You do not also have to be exes and friends who talk and hang out. You can be more like coworkers -- you do the parenting jobs, show up for kid things and family events, but do not hang out 1:1 like friends do.

I suggest you do your soul searching. Figure out what you want and if it's actually healthy.

Galagirl

I'm jumping in briefly to say, wow, the quality and dedication of the introspection and advice in this thread seem off the charts. I'm so impressed. This is not the Internet I've grown to despise. I hope someday I can meet such sensible adults.

Just wanted to say, OP, that the story about you being so neglected on your birthday struck a chord with me. It sounds so painful. I'm sorry you're experiencing this.

Well, I for one am confused at how this whole experiment has gotten to this point-- kind of a stalemate. Maybe lostinlove is being more open about details and the deep real issues going on in DMs, with dinged and others? If so, I don't know how anyone on this thread can offer any pertinent advice.

I've read here about a couple that met in high school at age 14, married at 19, had issues along the way that Lost thought had been addressed and resolved (but apparently were not).

However, for unstated reasons, this couple decided to start "swinging," in the form of (ideally) male/female/male sexual threesomes, which could possibly also include Carrie occasionally having one-on-one sex with males, and Lost having one-on-one sex with females.

However, what has happened is that Carrie has entered into basically a monogamous relationship with Leo. Meanwhile, Lost began to date a female he wanted to pursue, but Carrie got so upset about this, Lost immediately broke up with said woman. (What's sauce for the goose [the female] is apparently not sauce for the gander [the male], aka a One-Vagina Policy, and Lost was quick to capitulate.)

Now, Carrie is so into Leo, she has no interest in having physical intimacy with Lost, from the merest friendly gesture to full-on sex. Also, she wants to get her own place. They may divorce.

Lost seems to accept the fractured state of their marriage, and is willing to be downgraded to a friend with benefits of his own wife.

He is feeling very deprived sexually, but is apparently not interested in getting back in touch with that woman he was interested in a short while ago. He is willing to settle for sexual "scraps"-- being FWBs with his own wife-- if/when she feels in the mood to deal out such scraps.

And here we are, at least, as far as I can tell. I don't understand how, and especially why, things have come to this, other than that a relationship they began at age 14 has now run its course at age 39, and "swinging" was considered as a Band-Aid, but went all wrong. Perhaps, having gotten married at age 19, Carrie is now regretting missing out on having dated more people as a teen and 20-something, and is now dating a 20-year old to reclaim that era of her life. Perhaps the passion she has for Lost once, has fully fizzled, and certain aspects of his personality are just too annoying.

I mean, I can relate. I met my ex-husband at 19, married him at 22, and we divorced after 30+ years and 3 kids. We'd definitely grown apart, no longer shared enough interests or life goals, etc.