A VERY BAD start!

B

Bella999

New member
My wife of 9 years comes clean last night about an affair she is having with a guy we both know. They hang out everyday at the cafe, and apparently developed a strong friendship that has recently turned sexual. They did this without me knowing or my consent. She also admitted to having a 3 sum with with him and his friend who owns the cafe. The owner's wife doesn't know and I have been instructed not to tell her. She claims they have only had sex 3 times.

So after telling me this, she is wanting a poly relationship and assures me he is the right guy because he is so attentive and charming to her.

Just a brief disclaimer that my wife and I spent a few years in the "swinging" lifestyle and we were very solid and for the most part a stellar couple living non jealousy and drama free. We were looked up to by many as being an shining example of that lifestyle working. We played with couples, singles, groups and hosted parties. I know we both had a great time, but she basically burned out and didn't want to continue.

She told me I could continue but only if I played in group situations and not with singles. This to me was clearly understood and I asked her how much detail she wanted if I did, and she said if she had questions she would ask. I wish I had recorded her saying that. I did play a few times and when I told her about it, she went ballistic and called me a cheater and insisted I had an affair.

I liked the swinging protocol of openness and honesty where everything was above ground. I have never played with a vanilla or single girl since we have been together, nor do I ever want to. I have followed the agreement to a tee.

After her blow up, I dropped playing and it's been a few years now. We have been getting along great until this point.

The guy she is having sex with is an artist. Very talented and seems overly sensitive as many artists are. Comes across very kind and passive.
She insists I give him a chance.

He's off to a very bad start. Fucking my wife without approaching me about it. Not the proper swinging protocol I and others embraced in the swinging lifestyle.

She doesn't want me having another female secondary. Only her and this guy.

He has no job, no car, dingy apartment, needs major dental work and it certainly is not a turn on thinking about him fucking my wife.

I will say that I DO enjoy some guys fucking my wife and find that very hot and erotic if the guy is handsome, polite and respectful, well hung etc.

My wife is basically saying she doesn't want to jeopardize our relationship, (she already has), but that she will be very upset if I don't go along with this relationship. I am very disappointed she allowed this to turn sexual.

I suggested they go off and do their thing, and let it run it's course. I imagine the thrill will wear off whatever it is. I couldn't promise her I wouldn't pursue someone else as a secondary. She insists I be fully included. Not sure I want this involvement.

She claims I am not fulfilling all her emotional needs. This guy has no job and all day to massage her etc…

My wife doesn't work, and I support her fully. We live in a very nice area with financial freedom most would envy. She says she would not want to give this up (duh)

We hardly ever fight, I love her dearly, and hope she comes to her senses quickly.

I don't want to threaten her. I'm not poly minded… prefer sexy casual fun that has a safe ending where everyone goes home. I don't need a deeper connection with another female, but if we are going the poly route, I would need some balance on the other side. It can't be just all about her.

I know this all may sound a bit unreal, but this is all very true.

Any thoughts?
 
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I know you're coming at this from a swinging mindset, and that can be jarring to those outside that world. I'll try to be as sensitive as I can, but accept my apologies in advance if this comes off as brusque.

You do not own your wife. You do not own her body. You do not get to control who has access to her body. So I would throw away the resentment you seem to be harbouring about him not seeking your permission first. He sought permission from the one person that mattered; your wife.

That being said, she does not own you. She does not own your body. She does not get to control who has access to your body. See where I'm going with this? Her insistence that you join her in this escapade, with a guy you are not attracted to or interested in engaging with, seems unreasonable to me. It also seems unreasonable to me that you are not allowed to form your own relationship with another, like she has done. However, I am me, and you guys are you. Things that I think are reasonable or not don't really matter, it's about what the pair of you can agree on.

To be very clear, she has cheated on you. Regardless of how open your relationship has been on either side in the past, you had a current working agreement of 'closed'. So I would start there. Can you forgive her for breaking your trust? What work between the two of you needs to be done before you can regain that level of trust? Can you get over this and not just hold it over her head as a tool to be brought out every time you want something from her? Many people find this stuff really hard to forgive, especially if the person she cheated on you with is still in the picture. It can make efforts at reparation seem insincere if the outside relationship continues. At the same time, perhaps your swinging experiences have given you a head start in some areas. You might not be dealing with sexual jealousy or insecurity as much as just feeling taken for granted/used. I don't know, but I think it would be good for you to do an emotional recce of what you are feeling right now towards her. What bothers you more? Her deceit? (If so, was there any reason she could not be fully honest with you?) The double-standard? (You held back for her, do you resent that choice now that you've seen her act otherwise?) That would be step one, in my eyes. Figure out if you want to remain married to her at all, and if you do, whether you prefer that to be as an open marriage, or a closed one.

If you decide the relationship is salvageable, step two is addressing the discontent you are both feeling. She has told you that you are not meeting her emotional needs. I'm not a subscriber to the idea that if person A, who I love, is neglecting certain aspects of our relationship, I can just go to person B and get that thing that is lacking. It doesn't work that way. So you and she need to go away and do some work and make your marriage and your relationship rock solid. You need to communicate better - she needs to be more honest about her feelings, and you need to get better at listening to her. And vice versa. It sounds like there *are* insecurities in both of you, and now is the time to work on those too, regardless of whether you decide to run with an open relationship model, or a closed one. Heal things between you guys, and you'll be in a stronger place to move forwards regardless.

If you decide you are willing to open your marriage, step three would be figuring out *together* what kind of open relationship you both desire. You can have different things - things don't have to be the same for both of you, the important thing is that you both get to have the kinds of relationships you want with others and each other. So you might want to stick with the swinging thing as it works well for you, but the chance to hook up with women one on one might be something you'd like to be put back on the table. If she has jealousy and insecurity issues around that, try to determine if she's willing to work on overcoming those, and what support from you she might need. Perhaps she wants to continue dating this guy, but as her boyfriend rather than her lover/friend with benefits. In that case, do you guys need to consider coming out of the closet? How much space does she realistically have in her life for him? Would you rather not interact with him, or would you like to get to know him better/perhaps be friends? What would work best for you in such a situation? Basically, you guys need to negotiate boundaries that are workable. It might be something that takes a long time. It might be the case that you are okay with something in theory, but in practise you need to take it slow and work up to it. So set it as a goal, with regular check-ins to see how you are both progressing.

I think it's a lot easier transitioning to polyamory from a swinging background, and there's a lot of overlap in many ways. I personally prefer having one life partner and multiple friends-with-benefits, over the (for me!) stress of juggling multiple full romantic entanglements. For many people, there is a blurry line between the warmth and affection you feel within an intimate friendship, and that of a romantic partnership. Perhaps your wife is better suited to having one or two serious commitments in addition to her relationship with you, and perhaps she will turn out to be really good at balancing things out and not neglecting your marriage in the process. If you can get over the inauspicious start, and approach this with an open-mind and some optimism, it could work for everyone. She has to be willing to work on improving her skills too though - as no amount of personal progress you make in understanding her position or overcoming unwanted societal conditioning can make it work. A relationship requires two people working together, both holding their end of the stick. You cannot do it all for her, or vice versa.
 
Hi Bella and welcome.

My blunt take on this is that she is having an affair, but doesn't want to lose you. SOOOOO many people seem to be grabbing onto "poly" to explain their affairs now because "poly" is an option, whereas just a few years ago, these situations were simply affairs. Almost all affairs are "poly," in that the cheating spouse loves and does not want to lose the other spouse, but also has an undeniable need for the other person. Two loves is what an affair is usually all about, but two loves isn't all there is to poly.

You're not interested in poly.
She doesn't sound very interested in poly. (She's into this new man and asking you to "join in" to alleviate her guilt.)
The new man doesn't seem poly minded. (A threesome is not poly, as you know.)

This is an affair, which I'm not going to judge her for, but the first step for all of you is to call a spade a spade. This isn't "polyamory" but simply your garden variety cheating situation. I think it's helpful that you know that and work with that simple concept instead of trying to see your way in muddy waters.
 
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Good advice, tenK, but don't forget the sketchiness of the woman engaging in a sexual threesome with her new bf, and this cafe owner dude who is cheating on his wife. So, not only did the OP's wife cheat on him, she is also fucking a cheater.

This is neither ethical swinging or polyamory. It's cheating all around. And smells like poop, if you ask me. Much work to be done here, unless everyone is so ethically jaded or careless, they can all live with or somehow ignore or overlook the deceit, and the danger that the OP can't forgive his wife for cheating, and the danger that the cafe owner's wife will find out about the threesomes. This cafe is their daily hangout spot! How can they look the owner's wife in the eye? Yuck.
 
I am sorry you deal in this cheating stuff. I hope you feel better for the vent.

Here's what I see as the pertinent points. Blue comments are mine.

RECENT REVEAL

My wife of 9 years comes clean last night about TWO cheating affairs
  • She and Dude did this without me knowing or my consent.
  • She also had a threesome with him and the cafe owner (who is married)
  • She told me not to tell the cafe owner's wife. Making me an accessory after the fact. (Which I do not like)

WIFE WANTS/PREFERENCES

  • My wife says she doesn't want to jeopardize our relationship (she already has)
  • My wife doesn't work, and I support her fully. We live in a very nice area with financial freedom most would envy. She says she would not want to give this up (duh)

(I don't think she cares about doing her share to keep the relationship with you healthy. She cares about keeping access to the stuff and lifestyle you provide. You seem to realize this.

This is incredibly fresh! She wants you to maintain her while she cheats on agreements and treats you poorly? :mad:)

CURRENT OFFER FROM WIFE

She wants to have a Closed poly relationship with Dude. Wife as the hinge, he and I are the V-arm people. (No mention of the cafe owner -- is she dumping him or continuing that cheating affair?)

  • She insists I give him a chance.
  • She insists I be fully included. (Not sure I want this involvement.)
  • She claims I am not fulfilling all her emotional needs.
  • Wife says she will be very upset if I don't go along with this relationship.
  • She doesn't want me dating a GF of my own.

(That whole section above reads like bullying you /grinding you down to get her way.)

YOUR INITIAL COUNTER OFFER

  • I suggested she and Dude go off and do their thing, and let it run it's course. (<--That sounds like you saying whatever in the moment to be free of the bullying/grinding down.)


YOUR WANTS/PREFERENCES

  • I don't want to threaten her. (That is fine. You do not have to threaten. You also do not have to participate here.)
  • I liked the swinging protocol of openness and honesty where everything was above ground (<-- Your wife is not being open and honest from the start here.She does not meet your standard for behavior)

  • I'm not poly minded… prefer sexy casual fun that has a safe ending where everyone goes home.
  • I don't need a deeper connection with another female, but if we are going the poly route, I would need some balance on the other side. It can't be just all about her. (That's right! It cannot. But she is not offering ethical polyamory. She is offering "using polyamory as a whitewash for cheating" and you can decline the whitewash. Just call it what it is. A cheating affair out in the Open. )
  • I did not promise to be Closed. I may pursue someone else as a secondary. (I suggest you pursue NOBODY right now. Don't be adding more people to this messy situation)

DESIRED OUTCOME

  • We hardly ever fight, I love her dearly, and hope she comes to her senses quickly (and dumps these dudes and works on healing from cheating affair with you? That thought seems incomplete.)

MY THOUGHTS

While I understand it if you were being harangued, I think it was a mistake to consent to her doing whatever with the guy in the hopes it will run its course and go away.

You could not make major life changes like Opening the marriage while under duress.

You could not teach that it is ok to cheat on agreements with you. You could teach you expect agreements to be followed or renegotiated BEFORE new behavior happens.

I think it would have been healthier for you to say "I do not consent to this. If you keep carrying on with him? This is not poly. I consider it a cheating affair out in the open."

It is not too late to say that -- she's hit you with a whammy and I think you might be in shock. :(

  • You might want to see a counselor and do your own self care.
  • You might want to get screened for STDs.
  • While your wife is continuing this affair, you may want to not share sex with your wife.

  • You might want to read this.

    http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/ if you are going to try to rebuild trust here enough to do a poly model WITHOUT the cheating affair people.

Part of the price of admission to working things out with you could be requesting she dumps these cheating affair dudes. That is totally fair to ask for. She can say yes or no. If she does not dump them? Move on to breaking up.

If you want to just break up and not bother to rebuild trust here? I wouldn't blame you. You are well within your rights to do so. You are being treated VERY poorly and this is all just too crazy to be healthy.

You could get you out of the line of fire. Your wife's is taking up with people who lack good ethics, and I don't see how that is good. She is not doing loving behavior toward you. She seems to lack ethics herself.

Me in these shoes?

  • I would take steps to get away from any more poor treatment coming down the pipeline.
  • I would tell her I do not consent to a Poly V with this dude. But I cannot stop her.
  • I would be doing my health check ups. And I would be seeking a counselor to heal from such a betrayal.
  • I would quietly file for divorce and quietly withdraw half the funds from any joint accounts and put them in my own name. I would change my paycheck to go into my own account. I would close any shared credit cards.
  • I would continue making deposits in the joint account for her to live on in transition.
  • When the papers get served? I would tell her I no longer want to participate in marriage that is not open and honest. I would tell her I am willing to pay fair support and expect my transitional support to be taken into account on the ledger in court. I would be as generous as possible in my financial support and view it not as money spent for her, but money spent for ME to get rid of a mess ASAP.
  • I would make a deposit in the account for moving expenses and tell her I expect her to move out within 2 weeks. I would hand her a list of apartments I already looked up that fit her transitional budget. I would hand her a storage unit address in case she prefers to store and stay with a friend or hotel for a while. Either way, in 2 weeks I want her stuff out of here.
  • I would help her pack and even arrange for the mover to take the stuff to where she chooses. Just to be free of this faster and make sure she isn't foot dragging.
  • I would change the locks on the doors so her key does not work any more.
  • I would do it as quickly and as peacefully as possible, but I would break it off and get me out of this mess.

There's a limit to my tolerance and these shenanigans go WELL PAST my tolerance level. :mad:

Galagirl
 
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Sorry, this has nothing to do with who 'owns' or 'controls' anyone else. Cheating is cheating. They had agreements and she broke trust.
 
Thank you all so much for the kind or thoughtful responses!

It's a lot to think about.

I am going to suggest she jump on here and tell her side of the story as well.
Not sure she will do this, but who knows.. I think she should have her version expressed. It might be helpful to us both, and we might get some useful advice. :D
 
Hi, Bella here, and here are some of my responses in bold:

tenK said:
I know you're coming at this from a swinging mindset, and that can be jarring to those outside that world. I'll try to be as sensitive as I can, but accept my apologies in advance if this comes off as brusque.

You do not own your wife. You do not own her body. You do not get to control who has access to her body. So I would throw away the resentment you seem to be harbouring about him not seeking your permission first. He sought permission from the one person that mattered; your wife.

That being said, she does not own you. She does not own your body. She does not get to control who has access to your body. See where I'm going with this?


My wife explains:

I agree with this from a legal point of view, but not from a spiritual view. We are a package deal, and because I am trying to not make this a single sided affair, I know that I broke our agreement and told my new lover not to say anything because I knew it was wrong. I knew he was a vanilla guy and didn't want to throw him into a crazy scenario. I thought I could ween him into our lifestyle. I knew I was doing something wrong because as I said, our policy has been to not have sex with our vanilla friends. Although he is not typical eye candy to most, his kind soul outshines any lacking in the looks department to me. I love the way he adores my husband as well (not talking sexually specifically) in a genuine way.



Her insistence that you join her in this escapade, with a guy you are not attracted to or interested in engaging with, seems unreasonable to me. It also seems unreasonable to me that you are not allowed to form your own relationship with another, like she has done. However, I am me, and you guys are you. Things that I think are reasonable or not don't really matter, it's about what the pair of you can agree on.

My wife explains:

First, I am not asking my husband to be sexual with him. My husband has always said the focus should be on me, and he has been good with that. He is the ultimate in that area. I feel blessed by that. From day one, my husband was about threesomes, other males, and not so much about other females, although he has played with many many females as well in the swinging lifestyle. He always assured me he was not interested in getting emotionally attached to another female.
He has made me feel secure about that. Although we understood our protocols there was a time when I didn't feel it applied when my dad was dying and my husband played. I felt betrayed, but we have worked through this. Regarding this situation, I don't think it was the motivator, vengeance etc that caused my recent hiccup.

To be very clear, she has cheated on you. Regardless of how open your relationship has been on either side in the past, you had a current working agreement of 'closed'. So I would start there. Can you forgive her for breaking your trust? What work between the two of you needs to be done before you can regain that level of trust? Can you get over this and not just hold it over her head as a tool to be brought out every time you want something from her? Many people find this stuff really hard to forgive, especially if the person she cheated on you with is still in the picture. It can make efforts at reparation seem insincere if the outside relationship continues. At the same time, perhaps your swinging experiences have given you a head start in some areas. You might not be dealing with sexual jealousy or insecurity as much as just feeling taken for granted/used. I don't know, but I think it would be good for you to do an emotional recce of what you are feeling right now towards her. What bothers you more? Her deceit? (If so, was there any reason she could not be fully honest with you?) The double-standard? (You held back for her, do you resent that choice now that you've seen her act otherwise?) That would be step one, in my eyes. Figure out if you want to remain married to her at all, and if you do, whether you prefer that to be as an open marriage, or a closed one.

My wife explains:

Cheating is a big word. We were in the swinging lifestyle for so long, we don't have the same emotional attachment to sex that most do. I am ashamed to have been deceitful, I looked at this as a way to make a deeper connection with my friend who has actually been celibate for over 20 years. I was assisting my friend out of this funk, but it doesn't make me love or appreciate my husband any less. If anything, the contrary.

If you decide the relationship is salvageable, step two is addressing the discontent you are both feeling. She has told you that you are not meeting her emotional needs. I'm not a subscriber to the idea that if person A, who I love, is neglecting certain aspects of our relationship, I can just go to person B and get that thing that is lacking. It doesn't work that way. So you and she need to go away and do some work and make your marriage and your relationship rock solid. You need to communicate better - she needs to be more honest about her feelings, and you need to get better at listening to her. And vice versa. It sounds like there *are* insecurities in both of you, and now is the time to work on those too, regardless of whether you decide to run with an open relationship model, or a closed one. Heal things between you guys, and you'll be in a stronger place to move forwards regardless.

If you decide you are willing to open your marriage, step three would be figuring out *together* what kind of open relationship you both desire. You can have different things - things don't have to be the same for both of you, the important thing is that you both get to have the kinds of relationships you want with others and each other. So you might want to stick with the swinging thing as it works well for you, but the chance to hook up with women one on one might be something you'd like to be put back on the table. If she has jealousy and insecurity issues around that, try to determine if she's willing to work on overcoming those, and what support from you she might need. Perhaps she wants to continue dating this guy, but as her boyfriend rather than her lover/friend with benefits. In that case, do you guys need to consider coming out of the closet? How much space does she realistically have in her life for him? Would you rather not interact with him, or would you like to get to know him better/perhaps be friends? What would work best for you in such a situation? Basically, you guys need to negotiate boundaries that are workable. It might be something that takes a long time. It might be the case that you are okay with something in theory, but in practise you need to take it slow and work up to it. So set it as a goal, with regular check-ins to see how you are both progressing.

I think it's a lot easier transitioning to polyamory from a swinging background, and there's a lot of overlap in many ways. I personally prefer having one life partner and multiple friends-with-benefits, over the (for me!) stress of juggling multiple full romantic entanglements. For many people, there is a blurry line between the warmth and affection you feel within an intimate friendship, and that of a romantic partnership. Perhaps your wife is better suited to having one or two serious commitments in addition to her relationship with you, and perhaps she will turn out to be really good at balancing things out and not neglecting your marriage in the process. If you can get over the inauspicious start, and approach this with an open-mind and some optimism, it could work for everyone. She has to be willing to work on improving her skills too though - as no amount of personal progress you make in understanding her position or overcoming unwanted societal conditioning can make it work. A relationship requires two people working together, both holding their end of the stick. You cannot do it all for her, or vice versa.
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FallenAngelina said:
Hi Bella and welcome.

My blunt take on this is that she is having an affair, but doesn't want to lose you. SOOOOO many people seem to be grabbing onto "poly" to explain their affairs now because "poly" is an option, whereas just a few years ago, these situations were simply affairs. Almost all affairs are "poly," in that the cheating spouse loves and does not want to lose the other spouse, but also has an undeniable need for the other person. Two loves is what an affair is usually all about, but two loves isn't all there is to poly.

You're not interested in poly.
She doesn't sound very interested in poly. (She's into this new man and asking you to "join in" to alleviate her guilt.)
The new man doesn't seem poly minded. (A threesome is not poly, as you know.)

This is an affair, which I'm not going to judge her for, but the first step for all of you is to call a spade a spade. This isn't "polyamory" but simply your garden variety cheating situation. I think it's helpful that you know that and work with that simple concept instead of trying to see your way in muddy waters.
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Hi Angelina, I am the wife here responding to you.

I agree with everything you said, but how do you interpret poly? Commune? everyone sharing kids and bills etc? We don't have kids and don't really know what poly is.

We have been friends for about a year and a half. I have been having sex with him for just over two months. But again, my husband did not know until I came out yesterday. My friend or new lover wants to be with us. He would like to be at our home all the time. He's been single for over 20 years, doesn't have to answer to anyone. He wants to be with me all the time. It should be noted that my husband has not agreed to any of this.

Please educate me as to what really defines poly?
 
Magdlyn said:
Good advice, tenK, but don't forget the sketchiness of the woman engaging in a sexual threesome with her new bf, and this cafe owner dude who is cheating on his wife. So, not only did the OP's wife cheat on him, she is also fucking a cheater.

This is neither ethical swinging or polyamory. It's cheating all around. And smells like poop, if you ask me. Much work to be done here, unless everyone is so ethically jaded or careless, they can all live with or somehow ignore or overlook the deceit, and the danger that the OP can't forgive his wife for cheating, and the danger that the cafe owner's wife will find out about the threesomes. This cafe is their daily hangout spot! How can they look the owner's wife in the eye? Yuck.
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My wife explains:

I agree, I did the threesome as a re enactment of a selfish fantasy and didn't consider the consequences as I should have. I don't have any further sex with the coffee house owner. BUT... his wife came to me and thanked me for saving their marriage (not because of this) because I have been coaching him to be nicer to her. We did have one bad judgment call, we do have a very strong friendship (the coffee house owner and I) He told me, she had had an affair before.
 
Just a quick thought to the 'adoring your husband' comment: Having sex with you without speaking with the other part of the 'package deal' does not come across as a really caring character.

And even if you are 'different from other people' concerning your emotional attachment or however you want to call it, there are boundaries for you and him and you clearly disregarded them. But just because your boundaries may seem different to you and you seem to be able to clearly distinguish them from the 'vanilla' ones, how exactly does your helping the coffee house owner's marriage translate into having sex without the partner knowing? Whatever you did before to stabilize this marriage seems to be naught in regard to such a behaviour.
 
Cheating is a big word. We were in the swinging lifestyle for so long, we don't have the same emotional attachment to sex that most do. I am ashamed to have been deceitful...
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Cheating is a big word, but I think it's the right word in this context. You may not have an emotional attachment to sex, but it sounds like your husband was kind of attached to honesty and communication.

I agree with everything you said, but how do you interpret poly? Commune? everyone sharing kids and bills etc? We don't have kids and don't really know what poly is.
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Poly is generally defined as having multiple loving relationships. Beyond that, you can make your own fit for your life. I think there's more overlap with swinging than many acknowledge, but the focus is on the relationship, not the sex.

Living as a group, sharing finances, having kids - some do, some don't.

Poly also implies honesty, openness, consent, and communication. Kind of like swinging. You know, those things that were conspicuously missing from this situation.

We have been friends for about a year and a half. I have been having sex with him for just over two months. But again, my husband did not know until I came out yesterday. My friend or new lover wants to be with us. He would like to be at our home all the time. He's been single for over 20 years, doesn't have to answer to anyone. He wants to be with me all the time. It should be noted that my husband has not agreed to any of this.
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Ok, he wants those things. Do you want those things? Does your husband know you're even talking about those things with this man?

I know I'm coming across as pretty harsh here, but honestly, I'm baffled as to why you'd think you could go behind your husband's back, have an affair, and then expect him to be thrilled and eager to join in. Especially when you're unwilling to give him the option to have other emotionally important partners. This isn't "changing the rules" or "moving from swinging to poly", it's just cheating and still wanting everything to be happily ever after. Good luck having your cake and eating it, too.
 
Bella couple,

Would you both consider getting separate accounts? It is incredibly confusing to remember who is 'talking'.

Here's the short, most commonly accepted definition of polyamory: 'polyamory is the practice of, or desire for, intimate relationships involving more than two people, with the knowledge and consent of everyone involved.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory

The part in italics is what separates polyamory from cheating. If there is no knowledge AND consent of everyone involved, then it's not polyamory.

Also, consider that polyamory is a subset of the larger 'ethical non-monogamy' category. This includes swinging, which you are familiar with, and open relationships. Cheating would be 'unethical non-monogamy'.

It is not impossible to move from cheating to a polyamorous relationship. It is incredibly hard. Most people fail to do so and the relationships end.

Search here for cheating and you will see many many threads of people who attempted to make that shift. (Look for 'Search' near the top of the page towards the right. You can enter words into the search box or click 'Tag search' and search for tagged threads.)

It will not be easy reading but I strongly suggest it. You have some major denial about the seriousness of the situation you've put yourself, your husband and your friend in.
 
"Cheating" is a big word that doesn't necessarily mean "fucking someone you aren't married to." However, it can definitely mean "fucking someone you aren't married to WITHOUT TALKING TO YOUR SPOUSE ABOUT IT." You admit you deceived your husband. That's what cheating is.

You cheated. End of story. Get over it. Instead of playing word games, work on making your marriage stronger and making amends to your husband.

Polyamory means multiple LOVING relationships. Has nothing to do with who lives where or who shares what, only with the fact that LOVE is involved. If you're just fucking someone and there are no emotions involved, it isn't poly. It's fucking. Swinging. Not poly. If you love the guy you're fucking on the side, maybe it's poly... except you started off doing it behind your husband's back. Poly involves the knowledge and consent of ALL parties. Your husband didn't know, and therefore couldn't consent. Therefore, it has not been poly up to this point; it's been cheating.
 
Bella999 said:
Hi Angelina, I am the wife here responding to you.

I agree with everything you said, but how do you interpret poly? Commune? everyone sharing kids and bills etc? We don't have kids and don't really know what poly is......Please educate me as to what really defines poly?
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If you really are interested in discussing what poly is, why not hang around and join in our community? This is an ongoing topic of discussion around here.

I can only go by what your husband said in his OP and what he is describing are not people who are intereted in ongoing multiple loving relationships, but a spouse who was having an affair. As I said, I don't judge people who "cheat" but cheating is not polyamory and it's important to know which is which.

Bella999 said:
She told me I could continue but only if I played in group situations and not with singles.....She doesn't want me having another female secondary. Only her and this guy..... she will be very upset if I don't go along with this relationship......She insists I be fully included. Not sure I want this involvement....... I'm not poly minded…prefer sexy casual fun that has a safe ending where everyone goes home. I don't need a deeper connection with another female
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BellaWife – could you be willing to create your own separate account instead of using Bella999's to post with?

You and your husband are not a “package deal” in that you get to make unilateral decisions for the couple.

Now that Dude wants to move into your house and live with you? Your husband may not consent to that either. I hope you are not planning on asking your husband's consent to move this man in. You seem to lack empathy for your spouse for all that you claim to love and appreciate him.

According to your spouse, Dude has no job, no car, dingy apartment, needs major dental work and your spouse is not turned on thinking about him fucking you. Your spouse is very unhappy with this whole mess already with Dude living elsewhere. So why on earth would your spouse want to take your cheating affair partner on as a new roommate? Why on earth would your spouse want to take your cheating affair partner on as his new dependent? :confused:

You cheated on agreements, seem to know it, and claim to be ashamed of practicing deceit. If that is the case?

You could start practicing honesty, ask those you have trespassed against for forgiveness, and if given opportunity to make amends and return to right relationship? Get on with making amends.

I don't know what kind of Open Model you want to be practicing from this point forward or with which players, but I suggest you figure it out. Then ask these persons if they want to participate with you in that kind of open model relationship with you. All players in the network consenting. No more cheating anywhere along the chain.

Keep in mind that if you've trespassed against them before, they may prefer to NOT be involved with you in a new thing because of broken trust. They might prefer to just move on with their lives without forgiving you or without giving you opportunity to make amends. If that is the case, I suggest you respect their choice and let it end with some dignity.

Because the rest of it just has not been dignified sounding at all.

Galagirl
 
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Bella the wife here:

Thank you for your responses. It means a lot to us.

Before I get into responding to some of these other posts... let me give a bit of background about our relationship for clarity and understanding to this forum.

My turn to vent?

Ok... here goes....

I understand my husband is very upset and hurt, understandably so, painting me out to be something that is not correct. Indeed, we have shared an alternate lifestyle, we DID have an agreement that he could play without my being present for at least a year before he did anything, (after my departure from the swinging lifestyle which is another story)

The reason I feel my husband broke his bond was not because he broke our agreement but because he chose to have sexual adventures during my tough moments while my father was dying. My father was in the ICU for 5 weeks and he thought it was ok to satisfy his sexual needs rather than to be there for me. I did not know about this information until after he passed. I felt he was deceitful by not telling me ahead of time. But I will credit my husband with coming down to the south to spend 5 days with me and my dad (dad lives a 7 hour drive from here) but I was with my dad for 2 weeks in ICU. I spent 5 weeks away from home. I only saw my husband for 5 days in those 5 weeks. It bothered me that he admitted to having been involved in two sex orgies with a group of quote "poly people" that was made up of one guy and his three girlfriends.

My husband didn't feel the need to always be there because the reality is I had a fallout with my dad that lasted over 30 years. But, I still needed him there for me, and he wasn't there in the way I wanted him to be.


If I was a vengeful person and didn't love my husband, I wouldn't have been there for him when his father passed last year. I was grateful to have been there for those last days and moments. I do understand that my dad was 7 hours away, and his dad passed 10 minutes from the house. I also do believe that whether it was 10 miles or 300 miles, he should have been there with me.

As grateful as I am for my husband to be able to vent, I am not all that fond of this idea to ask advice from a website like this. Since everyone is so quick to point fingers, cheating, betrayal etc, this doesn't feel so great to me.

Here is my question?
Is it a bigger betrayal that my husband was not there for me when my dad was passing or is it a bigger betrayal that I had sex with my best friend and my husband didn't know about it?

Regarding this issue, because my husband has not agreed to my choice, I am agreeing to stop the sexual relationship with my friend, but I still want to see him as we did before sex started. My husband is agreeing to that.
 
Bella999 said:
Here is my question?
Is it a bigger betrayal that my husband was not there for me when my dad was passing or is it a bigger betrayal that I had sex with my best friend and my husband didn't know about it?
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Honestly, if you're asking a tit for tat question like this, your relationship is not anywhere near ready for polyamory. Poly requires generosity of spirit and all partners erring on the side of giving in order to be successful.
 
It isn't a matter of "bigger betrayal." No one's playing "you're worse than he is" or whatever.

You were deceitful by your own admission in this situation with your friend. That is what was stated in your husband's post and yours. No one's "pointing fingers", people are responding to the facts as presented, and those facts equal that you cheated.

If, in fact, your husband fucked around behind your back without telling you while your father was dying, then he also cheated, presuming that you and he had an agreement that he would talk to you before fucking anyone else. (If there was no such agreement, then he was insensitive and inconsiderate, but he wasn't cheating in my opinion, since cheating means breaking agreement and/or being dishonest with your spouse.)
 
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