A whole new world

[PolyHolly]

I'm new here today, so please be gentle!

My partner and I have been swinging for the last 10 years. We've always kept that side of our life very separate from what we called ‘real life.’ We would meet others without much planning or thought and mostly have one crazy night with them before returning to reality, and then repeating the cycle of ‘meet and retreat’ when we felt the pull. It worked for us. We had no plans to change it.

Then this year we met another couple and there was an instant connection between us all and everything has changed. We struck up a great friendship. More than that, started doing things with them that didn’t just include the bedroom, although naturally this features as a big part. Days out, meals out, meet the family, simply chilling out together, real affection, keeping in touch daily and finding out all about each other separately and across the dynamics. We have talked between us as four, about being each other's our ‘secondaries.' There are zero feelings of jealousy right now, and I can’t see any on the horizon. We all get on amazingly with each other. There is respect.

This morning, at the crack of dawn my partner and I had a very open discussion about how we feel about them. We are totally on the same page, but I personally feel like I am on the edge of a very scary cliff and about to take the leap of allowing myself to tumble off and let loose all the strong feelings that I’ve been keeping at arm's length.

So, my questions are:

How do you navigate all the big feelings? It’s bad enough trusting your feelings and heart to one person, without trusting them to another two more on top of that. I have trust issues!

Is it normal to feel that there are different kinds of love? My husband, my secondary and my girlfriend. How can this be?

Is it normal to feel more for your primary partner because of the feelings you have for others? I feel catapulted back to the feelings of the beginning of our relationship and seeing him through new eyes as he develops his feelings for his secondary whilst taking care of me and as he forges a bond with my secondary.

Do you have any top tips for people at this stage of things? It is early days. I am terrified of messing up what is an amazing situation but totally uncharted ground and think that everyone else in our four feels the same.

Holly x

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm new here today, so please be gentle!

My partner and I have been swinging for the last 10 years and always kept that side of our life very separate from what we called ‘real life.’ We would meet others without much planning or thought and mostly have one crazy night with them, before returning to reality and then repeating the cycle of ‘meet and retreat’ when we felt the pull. It worked for us. We had no plans to change it.

Then this year we met another couple and there was an instant connection between us all and everything has changed. We struck up a great friendship, and more than that, we started doing things with them that didn’t just include the bedroom, although naturally this features as a big part. Days out, meals out, meet the family, simply chilling out together, real affection, keeping in touch daily and finding out all about each other separately and across the dynamics. We have talked between us as a four about being each other's our ‘secondaries.' There are zero feelings of jealousy right now, and I can’t see any on the horizon. All of us get on amazingly with each other. There is respect.

It's very common for swingers to transition to poly, but it can feel scary.

This morning, at the crack of dawn my partner and I had a very open discussion about how we feel about them. We are totally on the same page, but I personally feel like I am on the edge of a very scary cliff and about to take the leap of allowing myself to tumble off and let loose all the strong feelings that I’ve been keeping at arms length.

So my questions are:

How do you navigate all the big feelings? It’s bad enough trusting your feelings and heart to one person without trusting it to another two more on top of that. I have trust issues!

Have you worked on your trust issues much? Have you had therapy where you've worked through them?

Is it normal to feel that there are different kinds of love? My husband, my secondary and my girlfriend. How can this be?

Every love is different. Even the ancient Greeks had entirely different words for love: agape, eros, and philia, to name a few. Agape is compassionate love, eros is romantic love and philia is brotherly/sisterly love. (There are more words! But we'll leave it at that.)

Is it normal to feel more for your primary partner because of the feelings you have for others?

Yes, it happens all the time. It's one of the benefits of NRE in polyamory.

I feel catapulted back to the feelings of the beginning of our relationship and seeing him through new eyes as he develops his feelings for his secondary. whilst taking care of me, and as he forges a bond with my secondary.

You are feeling compersion for your longer-term partner, empathic joy in his joy.

Do you have any top tips for people at this stage of things? It is early days. I am terrified of messing up what is an amazing situation but totally uncharted ground and think that everyone else in our four feels the same.

Holly x

All that said, doing a quad can be treacherous. The most common problem is when one of the newer romantic dyads develops at a different pace than the other. Or one of the newer dyads ends while the others want to continue. Or sometimes, the original dyads can break down in the face of the newer relationships.

Read this thread. It addresses the hazards of triads and quads:

https://polyamory.com/threads/hey-formerly-mono-couples-opening-up-to-polyamory.155659/

 

[Bobbi]

Is it normal to feel that there are different kinds of love? My husband, my secondary and my girlfriend. How can this be?

Each relationship is completely different, as the dyad of individuals are different, and therefore, the love will be different. I never noticed it when I was doing serial monogamy, but once poly, it became very clear.

Is it normal to feel more for your primary partner because of the feelings you have for others?

Yes! I feel a lot more love for my primary. For me, I know it’s partly because of monogamous programming that I’m still working on. The story in my head is: “He loves me so much, he wants me to be happy with others.” This thinking makes it feel like a very awesome gift from him and that’s why my feelings grow.

Even though we are completely autonomous in our relationships and with each other (yes, this thinking would suggest otherwise, but it’s true), that thought is the one I have and it’s the pervasive mono thought I have outside of our autonomy.

and as he forges a bond with my secondary

I have also experienced compassion and deepening love watching my partners (as metamours) bonding with each other.

think that everyone else in our four feels the same

Try to stay away from “the same.” Try to keep your thinking to “similar.” No two loves are the same. What you feel is not the same as how someone else feels. This is probably the most misunderstood thinking on the planet.

How often we hear someone say “we are soul mates” or “the love we have is forever” or even “you’ll never know a love like mine.” All of those statements are based on one person's feelings being projected onto another person. That person might not feel the same, may even feel disgust. Stalkers love their victims, but victims do not love their stalkers.

What you feel are YOUR feelings only. Others can tell you how they feel, and you can assume, based on their words, that they feel similarly, but you’ll never know exactly what they are feeling. It could be deeper than what you are feeling, or not as deep. You’ll never know.

Do you have any top tips for people at this stage of things?

You are feeling NRE. Enjoy it, but keep your caution. Don’t go all in. Those feelings cause people to lose rational thinking and judgement, while thinking they are so on it, that they couldn’t possibly be wrong. It’s fantasy land on steroids… or Molly. Enjoy the hell out of it, but make no big decisions while feeling it. Be mindful of your primary relationship, as it may start to take a backseat, or the new ones may feel like becoming primaries too. (You can have multiple primaries, but wait for NRE to wear off before deciding that.)

Be purposeful and thoughtful in your interactions, which will be hard, but worth it. Once The NRE wears off, you’ll have a much clearer picture of how you actually feel. That can take a very long time, months or years, depending.

 

[icesong]

Ok, I also started as a swinger and slid slowly into FWB with other couples and from there poly and dating separately was a logical progression - but because the Universe has a sense of humor, OKCupid introduced my spouse and I to a couple married to each other for our first relationships of that sort. So. Quad. (And then I/we did it again but that is an entirely different situation and not relevant here.)

First off if it’s “early days” as you say, there will be bumps in the road. One of the most toxic patterns that happened early in that quad relationship was that every time my then-meta had a wobble, the whole thing seemed like it was going to implode. That led to A. Lot. Of. Drama. and also led to us not communicating well because of fear - I felt I couldn’t bring up legitimate needs or issues as it felt like rocking the boat too much. (And yes, the “we all have to be a thing or this all ends” dynamic feeds into that in terrible ways. )

The other thing that was really problematic for me about dating my metas - and this is why I don’t anymore - is that it means that you’re relating with the same person in multiple roles. At least for me, my first instinct when my partner is in a conflict is to assume the partner is right and the other person is wrong - it’s human nature. When THAT person is someone who is also your partner, it’s a bit of a mind fuck.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello PolyHolly,

It sounds like this new couple has taken "a slice of your real life," they're no longer separate like swinging was. It really is like jumping off a cliff -- you just let the feelings happen, and talk about them as you go along. Really you are already at that point. You have let the feelings happen, and acted accordingly in many ways (days out, meals out, meet the family, chill out together, real affection, keeping in touch daily, finding out all about each other). So basically you just keep doing the same things.

Most of us are conditioned to view relationships through a monogamous lens. Like there can only be love between you and your partner. And God forbid that there should be more than one kind of love! The thing you have to do here is resist your conditioning. Push your perception to include things like love between more than two (in this case four) people. It can happen. You just have to believe it. The truth is, human beings are wired to be polyamorous. Monogamy is an artificial construct that is forced on us.

It is not at all unusual for one's love for one's secondary partner/s to spill over into one's primary relationship. It is like the flame on a candle. The flame can grow, and spread to other candles. Love is not a limited resource, it can grow and spread to multiple people. You are experiencing this now. You love your partner more because of your growing love for this new couple. No need to resist this process, it is very normal and natural. Don't be afraid of it, let it happen. Let it grow.

The most important thing in polyamory -- second to mutual consent -- is communication. Lots and lots of communication. Quality and quantity. Learn as much as you can about what constitutes healthy communication, put it into practice. I recommend sitting down -- the four of you -- once a week or perhaps once a month. Discuss any ongoing agreements you have, and see if anything needs adjusting. Discuss your wants and needs with each other, see if there is anything that needs extra attention right now.

I also advise you to invest a generous chunk of time into reading and posting on the threads and boards in this forum. There is so much you can learn here, and it is valuable information. Keep us updated as your situation evolves, so that we may give you updated feedback and advice. Let us know if/whenever any questions arise for you (new and old!). In most cases, we can answer, and if/when a rare instance arises where we can't answer, we can explore the questions with you, and learn the answers together.

Hopefully what's in this thread gets you started.
Kind regards,
Kevin T.

 

[PolyHolly]

It's very common for swingers to transition to poly, but it can feel scary.

Have you worked on your trust issues much? Have you had therapy where you've worked through them?

Every love is different. Even the ancient Greeks had entirely different words for love: agape, eros, and philia, to name a few. Agape is compassionate love, eros is romantic love and philia is brotherly/sisterly love. (There are more words! But we'll leave it at that.)



Yes, it happens all the time. It's one of the benefits of NRE in polyamory.

You are feeling compersion for your longer-term partner, empathic joy in his joy.

All that said, doing a quad can be treacherous. The most common problem is when one of the newer romantic dyads develops at a different pace than the other. Or one of the newer dyads ends while the others want to continue. Or sometimes, the original dyads can break down in the face of the newer relationships.

Read this thread. It addresses the hazards of triads and quads:

https://polyamory.com/threads/hey-formerly-mono-couples-opening-up-to-polyamory.155659/

Thank you so much for your reply.

I haven’t ever had any therapy, I kind of deal with stuff in my own head.

Thanks also for the link that I will read through. I think we have already felt the ebbs and flows of the dyads as we go at different paces. I’ll feed this back though - we talk a lot altogether and across the different dyads.

H x

 

[PolyHolly]

Each relationship is completely different, as the dyad of individuals are different, and therefore, the love will be different. I never noticed it when I was doing serial monogamy, but once poly, it became very clear.


Yes! I feel a lot more love for my primary. For me, I know it’s partly because of monogamous programming that I’m still working on. The story in my head is: “He loves me so much, he wants me to be happy with others.” This thinking makes it feel like a very awesome gift from him and that’s why my feelings grow.

I can relate to this feeling of a gift but I’m feeling it three ways. It feels like each of the quad has given me something amazing.

Even though we are completely autonomous in our relationships and with each other (yes, this thinking would suggest otherwise, but it’s true), that thought is the one I have and it’s the pervasive mono thought I have outside of our autonomy.



I have also experienced compassion and deepening love watching my partners (as metamours) bonding with each other.


Try to stay away from “the same.” Try to keep your thinking to “similar.” No two loves are the same. What you feel is not the same as how someone else feels. This is probably the most misunderstood thinking on the planet.

Thank you. This is a great point. I look around and have assumed that it’s the same but appreciate now the ‘similar.’

How often we hear someone say “we are soul mates” or “the love we have is forever” or even “you’ll never know a love like mine.” All of those statements are based on one person's feelings being projected onto another person. That person might not feel the same, may even feel disgust. Stalkers love their victims, but victims do not love their stalkers.

What you feel are YOUR feelings only. Others can tell you how they feel, and you can assume, based on their words, that they feel similarly, but you’ll never know exactly what they are feeling. It could be deeper than what you are feeling, or not as deep. You’ll never know.


You are feeling NRE. Enjoy it, but keep your caution. Don’t go all in. Those feelings cause people to lose rational thinking and judgement, while thinking they are so on it, that they couldn’t possibly be wrong. It’s fantasy land on steroids… or Molly. Enjoy the hell out of it, but make no big decisions while feeling it. Be mindful of your primary relationship, as it may start to take a backseat, or the new ones may feel like becoming primaries too. (You can have multiple primaries, but wait for NRE to wear off before deciding that.)

Oh yes! NRE is alive and well! I’m high on life and feeling the highs and lows to the extreme.

Be purposeful and thoughtful in your interactions, which will be hard, but worth it. Once The NRE wears off, you’ll have a much clearer picture of how you actually feel. That can take a very long time, months or years, depending.

Thank you for your reply. The input is super helpful. x

 

[PolyHolly]

The other thing that was really problematic for me about dating my metas - and this is why I don’t anymore - is that it means that you’re relating with the same person in multiple roles. At least for me, my first instinct when my partner is in a conflict is to assume the partner is right and the other person is wrong - it’s human nature. When THAT person is someone who is also your partner, it’s a bit of a mind fuck.

I had not considered this. I’ve thought a lot about the dynamics and how complicated it all is. It’s actually terrifying but there is no part of me that can contemplate it not being a ‘thing’ from my side.

 

[PolyHolly]

Hello PolyHolly,

It sounds like this new couple has taken "a slice of your real life," they're no longer separate like swinging was. It really is like jumping off a cliff -- you just let the feelings happen, and talk about them as you go along. Really you are already at that point. You have let the feelings happen, and acted accordingly in many ways (days out, meals out, meet the family, chill out together, real affection, keeping in touch daily, finding out all about each other). So basically you just keep doing the same things.

We are doing just this. It feels like we are doing well to the point we are at today.

Most of us are conditioned to view relationships through a monogamous lens. Like there can only be love between you and your partner. And God forbid that there should be more than one kind of love! The thing you have to do here is resist your conditioning. Push your perception to include things like love between more than two (in this case four) people. It can happen. You just have to believe it. The truth is, human beings are wired to be polyamorous. Monogamy is an artificial construct that is forced on us.

I believe it, even though it feels so crazy. I guess that’s the NRE whizzing around?

It is not at all unusual for one's love for one's secondary partner/s to spill over into one's primary relationship. It is like the flame on a candle. The flame can grow, and spread to other candles. Love is not a limited resource, it can grow and spread to multiple people. You are experiencing this now. You love your partner more because of your growing love for this new couple. No need to resist this process, it is very normal and natural. Don't be afraid of it, let it happen. Let it grow.

I have stopped resisting and feel happier because of that.

The most important thing in polyamory -- second to mutual consent -- is communication. Lots and lots of communication. Quality and quantity. Learn as much as you can about what constitutes healthy communication, put it into practice. I recommend sitting down -- the four of you -- once a week or perhaps once a month. Discuss any ongoing agreements you have, and see if anything needs adjusting. Discuss your wants and needs with each other, see if there is anything that needs extra attention right now.

We all talk A LOT. I would say that’s probably our biggest strength as a quad. Will push on with this.

I also advise you to invest a generous chunk of time into reading and posting on the threads and boards in this forum. There is so much you can learn here, and it is valuable information. Keep us updated as your situation evolves, so that we may give you updated feedback and advice. Let us know if/whenever any questions arise for you (new and old!). In most cases, we can answer, and if/when a rare instance arises where we can't answer, we can explore the questions with you, and learn the answers together.

Hopefully what's in this thread gets you started.
Kind regards,

Kevin T.

Thank you so much.

 

[kdt26417]

No problem, I'm glad if I could help.

 

[icesong]

We all talk A LOT. I would say that’s probably our biggest strength as a quad. Will push on with this.

That will help a LOT. Probably was the biggest mistake my first quad had was not doing so, or at least my corner of it didn’t enough.

 

[Bobbi]

We all talk A LOT. I would say that’s probably our biggest strength as a quad

It will make a big difference as long as EVERYONE is being honest and really owning their thoughts and feelings and are also able to express them. You can talk for months but if people are only saying things that won’t rock the boat because they dont want to seem oppositional, the problem person, or are just people pleasing in general, then the communication is an epic fail.

so many people want things to work so badly they dismiss their thoughts, opinions, feelings and even agree to things they don’t want just to make everything seem happy and that everyone is on the same page. It’s not the quantity of conversation but the quality that matters.

 

[PolyHolly]

It will make a big difference as long as EVERYONE is being honest and really owning their thoughts and feelings and are also able to express them. You can talk for months but if people are only saying things that won’t rock the boat because they dont want to seem oppositional, the problem person, or are just people pleasing in general, then the communication is an epic fail.

so many people want things to work so badly they dismiss their thoughts, opinions, feelings and even agree to things they don’t want just to make everything seem happy and that everyone is on the same page. It’s not the quantity of conversation but the quality that matters.

Although I suppose we never know for sure I’m pretty hopeful, cautiously confident, that no-one is just being a people pleaser. We are four upfront people but appreciate that this is a whole new world and there’s a lot of learning and growing to do together.

All I know for sure is that I am high on life right now and loving the journey. I know this will calm at some point and so I am desperately trying to keep it all in check but for now all is great.

H x

 

[kdt26417]

You have the right idea. Keep going, always be transparent with each other.